snele | sgclark: I can test trusty backports when you finish it | 01:48 |
---|---|---|
snele | will it be in staging ppa? | 01:48 |
sgclark | snele: yep, still one left to try and fix the build | 01:48 |
sgclark | yeah staging-kdeapplications | 01:48 |
sgclark | hush vivid, I will get to you | 01:49 |
valorie | santa_: sorry for being non-responsive thus far | 04:20 |
valorie | I'll read and respond to my email tonight | 04:20 |
sgclark | snele: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-kdeapplications trusty applications ready for testing | 04:27 |
sgclark | !testers | 04:27 |
ubottu | testers is Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56, parad1se, mamarley, alket, SourBlues, sgclark, neo31, vip, mparillo for information | 04:27 |
sgclark | ^^ | 04:27 |
* sgclark out | 04:28 | |
valorie | niters sgclark | 04:35 |
valorie | thanks for your work! | 04:35 |
snele | sgclark: upgrade didn't go smooth. there are errors: https://paste.kde.org/phoidccyk | 08:46 |
snele | sgclark: https://paste.kde.org/po6tolwyy | 08:49 |
Mamarok | hm, we might have a packaging error for amarok 2.8.90, if I trust this guy https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323802#c18 | 10:23 |
ubottu | KDE bug 323802 in Collections/Local "amarok gives MySQL error on startup, no tracks in collection" [Grave,Resolved: fixed] | 10:23 |
Mamarok | amarok should drag in MySQL by default | 10:23 |
Mamarok | and amarok should be removed if something else removes MySQL | 10:25 |
Mamarok | so at least the user would get aware that this could cause havoc | 10:26 |
yofel | needs investigation what exactly amarok uses from mysql. It does depend on libmysqlclient18, so any API calls should succeed, but if you do shell calls to mysql binaries then that's a different story | 10:48 |
BluesKaj | Hiyas all | 11:05 |
santa_ | valorie: no prob | 11:50 |
shadeslayer | jmux: ping | 13:10 |
shadeslayer | jmux: is there going to be a Munich BSP this year | 13:11 |
marco-parillo | sgclark: I upgraded my 14.04 VM (It has been a while), rebooted, then I added deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/staging-kdeapplications/ubuntu trusty main to my software sources. Looks like KDE Apps 4.14.3 are available. | 13:42 |
marco-parillo | Is there some kind of signing issue? I get a warning (The following pieces of software cannot be verified. WARNING: Installing unverified software represents a security risk, as the presence of unverifiable software can be a sign of tampering. Do you wish to continue?) | 13:42 |
marco-parillo | Of course, I click continue, like 99% of folks who get malware ;-) | 13:43 |
marco-parillo | sgclark: I got an error: /var/cache/apt/archives/kde-window-manager-common_4%3a4.11.14-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.04~ppa6_i386.deb trying to overwrite '/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kcontrol/windowbehaviour/index.cache.bz2', which is also in package kde-workspace-data 4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 | 13:50 |
marco-parillo | It says a re-boot is required, so I will try that, and re-try from the command line (I had been using Muon Update Manager). | 13:51 |
marco-parillo | Well, my Trusty VM is unusable after trying to upgrade the KDE apps. I had no windowing, so I had to ctrl alt F1 to get a tty. I logged in, tried to update && upgrade again, but got a ton of errors I could not paste. | 14:07 |
jmux | shadeslayer: we were just talking today, that nobody made a plan yet - too busy | 14:42 |
shadeslayer | oh :D | 14:43 |
jmux | I would still make one end of next month - as every year - but I don't want to do the preparations for 5 people | 14:44 |
jmux | people here felt we're already too late | 14:44 |
shadeslayer | jmux: yeah it seems a bit late, but I'd still be in | 14:45 |
jmux | If we can get a quick feedback of 10-15 people, who would come too Munich, I can probably still organizing a BSP | 14:46 |
shadeslayer | as long as it's not between 16th to 18th :P | 14:46 |
jmux | I know LibreOffice is doing an other hackfest 2nd - 4th December in Madrid | 14:46 |
shadeslayer | jmux: I can come, as long as it's not those dates ^ :D | 14:46 |
shadeslayer | jmux: oh :D | 14:46 |
shadeslayer | jmux: could merge with that, I'd get to ride a train then :> | 14:46 |
jmux | They had a hackfest in Hamburg two weeks ago | 14:47 |
shadeslayer | jmux: send a email out I guess | 14:49 |
shadeslayer | and find out | 14:49 |
jmux | shadeslayer: hmm. kde-devel, kubuntu-devel... | 14:53 |
shadeslayer | jmux: debian-qt-kde | 14:53 |
jmux | Ok. Guess I should add a doodle to collect feedback. | 14:56 |
=== tazz_ is now known as tazz | ||
yofel | count me in! | 15:18 |
jmux | So I just re-checked, there is actually money :-) Still need to get some approval, which I should get on Wednesday. | 15:27 |
jmux | Now for the mail and the doodle... | 15:28 |
=== genii is now known as zombiegenii | ||
sgclark | marco-parillo: hmm that sounds terrible. got any apt logs I can look at? | 15:52 |
clivejo | ok dolphin is crashing again when Im trying to open the menu to delete an item | 15:53 |
=== zombiegenii is now known as genii | ||
marco-parillo | sgclark: Sorry, it blew away my VM and there was nothing I could do with it. | 15:55 |
clivejo | https://paste.kde.org/pltbchtlb | 15:55 |
marco-parillo | Not your fault; my noob. | 15:56 |
mhall119 | last call, is there anybody who can give an hour presentation of Plasma Mobile as the Ubuntu Online Summit next week? | 16:07 |
jmux | shadeslayer, yofel: https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/LiMux_Hackfest_2015/ | 16:16 |
shadeslayer | mhall119: one hour :S | 16:17 |
shadeslayer | I don't think there's enough info for a hour | 16:17 |
tsdgeos | shadeslayer: apol and me spoke about it 35 min the other day don't think 1h would be horrible tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PtE8g8ldS0 | 16:20 |
shadeslayer | mhall119: I found your guys ^ | 16:20 |
shadeslayer | :P | 16:20 |
tsdgeos | but i'm not doing it again :D | 16:20 |
mhall119 | shadeslayer: tsdgeos: someone in #plasma is also volunteering, perhaps you can all go in together on it? | 16:21 |
shadeslayer | I'm already doing the CI thingamajig with sitter | 16:21 |
tsdgeos | mhall119: i know nothing about plasma mobile ;D i'm just in that video as sparring asking questions | 16:21 |
shadeslayer | k, cya on Monday | 16:26 |
jmux | BTW - everybody else is also free to add themself, if they want to hack in Munich too: https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/LiMux_Hackfest_2015/ | 16:27 |
sgclark | would love to, but no idea how I would get therre | 16:27 |
=== mck182__ is now known as mck182|laggynet | ||
ghostcube | oha weisswurst hacking event | 16:57 |
ghostcube | :D | 16:57 |
sgclark | kde-workspace updated. trusty needs further testing | 16:58 |
sgclark | !testers | 16:58 |
ubottu | testers is Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56, parad1se, mamarley, alket, SourBlues, sgclark, neo31, vip, mparillo for information | 16:58 |
sgclark | ^^ | 16:58 |
pursuivant | muon (master) v5.4.2-154-g4b469ec * Aleix Pol: libmuon/backends/ApplicationBackend/Application.cpp | 17:12 |
pursuivant | Fix build on Ubuntu | 17:12 |
pursuivant | Too much replace | 17:12 |
pursuivant | CCMAIL: jr@jriddel.org | 17:12 |
pursuivant | http://commits.kde.org/muon/4b469ecc51795d5d76c7fc894f184e0242a582cc | 17:12 |
=== tazz_ is now known as tazz | ||
pursuivant | muon (master) v5.4.2-155-ge3c5ce6 * Aleix Pol: discover/qml/MuonToolButton.qml | 18:05 |
pursuivant | use tighter QtQuick dependency | 18:05 |
pursuivant | http://commits.kde.org/muon/e3c5ce632805a52a2e5865e7685b5fc2d73aa9cd | 18:05 |
pursuivant | muon (master) v5.4.2-156-g78a4813 * Aleix Pol: libmuon/backends/ApplicationBackend (2 files) | 18:06 |
pursuivant | We already know if the process is running | 18:06 |
pursuivant | No need to keep a variable to keep track of it. | 18:06 |
pursuivant | http://commits.kde.org/muon/78a4813fa32cd69065e06fe7969186385c980560 | 18:06 |
pursuivant | muon (master) v5.4.2-157-g594f75c * Aleix Pol: libmuon/backends/ApplicationBackend/ApplicationNotifier.cpp | 18:06 |
pursuivant | adopt new connect syntax | 18:06 |
pursuivant | http://commits.kde.org/muon/594f75c55188705924231d86dcadf8c38a238b5b | 18:06 |
valorie | sgclark: surely Ubuntu Community Fund would send you to Munich to fix bugs? | 20:09 |
yofel | valorie: it would surely also send you over to motivate us all ;) | 20:11 |
yofel | meh, it seems like quite a few people used geotagging in digikam | 20:11 |
valorie | haha | 20:12 |
valorie | that doesn't seem a wise use of the money | 20:12 |
valorie | geotagging is useful! | 20:13 |
yofel | yeah, except that we removed it in wily.. | 20:13 |
valorie | Munich sounds fun, for sure | 20:13 |
valorie | oh, why? | 20:13 |
yofel | because digikam is qt4 and marble qt5 | 20:13 |
valorie | ah | 20:13 |
yofel | and we didn't upload another qt4 version of marble | 20:13 |
valorie | that's a beast that needs porting | 20:13 |
valorie | or well I guess updating the qt4 marble would be good enough? | 20:14 |
yofel | we could put it in a PPA with a new digikam build, someone would need to package it though and make sure it doesn't conflict with marble(-qt5) | 20:15 |
yofel | we need to packages digikam 4.14 as well (last qt4 release) | 20:16 |
sgclark | oh yeah was reading that bug right nnow | 20:17 |
sgclark | so why did we remove it? | 20:17 |
sgclark | yeah need to package kdevelop last qt4 and new kf5 beta | 20:17 |
yofel | because building both qt4 and qt5 marble from the same package doesn't work, and nobody had time to re-package a marble-qt4 | 20:17 |
sgclark | so much to do | 20:17 |
sgclark | ah | 20:18 |
sgclark | I am trying to debug my trusty updates and reproduce the explosion mparillo had. | 20:19 |
sgclark | still have vivd backports too | 20:20 |
yofel | problem with those is that we do a rather bad job at tracking moved files after multiple releases and multiple debian merges | 20:20 |
yofel | let me install trusty in a VM | 20:20 |
sgclark | yeah | 20:20 |
sgclark | thanks | 20:20 |
sgclark | well found problem one: libkdedecorationsabi1 | 20:22 |
sgclark | so abi need breaks replaces? | 20:23 |
sgclark | seems like that should be done by manager | 20:23 |
yofel | if it contains anything other than the lib, yes | 20:23 |
sgclark | okies fixing | 20:23 |
sgclark | hmm there is a breaks replace in there | 20:26 |
=== tom_ is now known as Guest44802 | ||
sgclark | ahh right ok, dummy me, have to do dist-upgrade due to the new dependencies | 20:29 |
sgclark | mparillo: did you do dist-upgrade? | 20:29 |
yofel | file overwrites are unrelated to the upgrade type though... let me read the error message again | 20:30 |
sgclark | hmm shouldnt be any file overwrites , I fixed the one in kde-workspace | 20:31 |
yofel | oh, that breaks/replaces is useless. trusty-updates has kde-workspace-data 4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2, the B/R is kde-workspace-data (<< 4:4.11.11) | 20:34 |
yofel | 4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 > 4:4.11.11 | 20:34 |
sgclark | hmm insstalled fine here | 20:35 |
yofel | should be << 4:4.11.14~ or os | 20:35 |
yofel | *so | 20:35 |
yofel | yes, because the order in which apt upgrades packages is non-deterministic | 20:35 |
sgclark | ok | 20:35 |
yofel | it depends on how the algorithm orders the packages to resolve dependencies | 20:36 |
yofel | which is why a simple upgrade test is not a sufficent test case for file overwrites, but to properly detect those you would need to read the whole install files diff | 20:37 |
yofel | maybe one could integrate something like that into the CI with a simple hashmap file DB or so which checks if a file was already in a package in the past | 20:37 |
yofel | that would then also catch files that moved between sources | 20:38 |
sgclark | I think it is in CI, problem is trusty packages are not :( | 20:39 |
yofel | yeah :/ | 20:40 |
=== genii is now known as zombiegenii | ||
sgclark | uploaded fixed kde-workspace | 20:42 |
sgclark | will need testing after build | 20:42 |
=== zombiegenii is now known as genii | ||
yofel | sgclark: what's supported as upgrade path? trusty -> new backports and trusty+old backports -> new backports? | 20:46 |
sgclark | hmm not sure. I did trusty updates, then rebooted and added the ppa and then dist-upgrade with success | 20:48 |
sgclark | did not try a path with backports | 20:48 |
sgclark | though I reckon it needs to be tested | 20:48 |
yofel | it does, as that's where the packages will end up, so all that have the backports enabled will go that path | 20:49 |
yofel | I guess I'll start with that then | 20:49 |
sgclark | thank you | 20:49 |
sgclark | wait for kde-workspace to build though | 20:50 |
yofel | will do, my VM is still installing anyway ^^ | 20:50 |
sgclark | :) | 20:50 |
ahoneybun | mm | 21:00 |
* yofel sees ahoneybun and remembers that he forgot something | 21:00 | |
yofel | dangit | 21:00 |
ahoneybun | lol | 21:01 |
ahoneybun | I did not mean it like that | 21:01 |
yofel | XD | 21:01 |
ahoneybun | but I'll take it lol | 21:02 |
mparillo | sgclark: I first tried muon (which I assume does not do a dist-upgrade), but when I pretty much had no gui after a re-boot, I did update && upgrade && dist-upgrade from apt. | 21:05 |
yofel | hm.. plasma2, so nostalgic :D | 21:06 |
=== genii is now known as zombiegenii | ||
sgclark | lol | 21:07 |
=== zombiegenii is now known as genii | ||
sgclark | hmm | 21:07 |
sgclark | yofel: muon updater does not dist upgrade? that could be a problem | 21:08 |
yofel | I don't know actually.. let me check | 21:09 |
sgclark | though this is not the first mass updates, seems like this issue would have come up in the apst | 21:09 |
sgclark | past | 21:09 |
yofel | hm, if I just add the backports ppa, then muon-updater does ask me to remove 3 packages. That's a dist-upgrade | 21:09 |
sgclark | mparillo: did you do a dpkg --force overwirte on that package that failed? | 21:09 |
sgclark | ok cool, good to know | 21:10 |
sgclark | so that is not it. | 21:10 |
sgclark | seems like kde-workspace did not get installed, it has since been fixed | 21:10 |
sgclark | which is why testing is so important! | 21:11 |
mparillo | sgclark: I did not dpkg -- force; when I was on the commandline it said something like apt install -f, which I did try. | 21:12 |
sgclark | ok so kde-workspace did not get installed, that is why your gui exploded | 21:13 |
sgclark | that has been fixed, thanks to your testing, sorry for the loss of your VM | 21:13 |
mparillo | sgclark: My pleasure to help out. I actually miss 14.04 (and really miss 14.10), but I do not miss that VM. BTW, I am back home now, so I am re-creating the 14.04 VM on my work laptop, while I can IRC on my netbook (Kubuntu is the only Plasma5 distro that is happy on a 1GB netbook). | 21:16 |
yofel | protip: use VM snapshots for testing ;) | 21:16 |
snele | sgclark: did you get my messages about trusty backports? | 21:17 |
sgclark | yeah I had snapshots at one point. really need to set that up again | 21:17 |
sgclark | snele: hmm no | 21:17 |
snele | sgclark: upgrade didn't go smooth. there are errors: https://paste.kde.org/phoidccyk | 21:20 |
snele | sgclark: https://paste.kde.org/po6tolwyy | 21:20 |
sgclark | snele: kde-workspace is now fixed | 21:20 |
sgclark | which is the source of that mess | 21:21 |
sgclark | and thanks to testers it was caught and fixed! | 21:21 |
* yofel kicks the publisher | 21:22 | |
yofel | it's in weekend mood -.- | 21:22 |
sgclark | lol | 21:22 |
soee_ | yofel: this "bug" with notification spam when there are some updates its part of kde/plasma or ubuntu/kubuntu releated stuff / | 21:22 |
yofel | "spam" ? | 21:22 |
yofel | I only ever see one notification when there are updates | 21:22 |
sgclark | snele: as soon as it publishes an apt update and dist-upgrade should sort it all out. | 21:23 |
soee_ | yofel: yes, when apt update command is fetching packages, and there are some updates, we see notification every few seconds | 21:23 |
sgclark | I only see one | 21:23 |
soee_ | a bit annoying tbh | 21:23 |
sgclark | I am on CI though so it must have been fixed upstream? | 21:23 |
yofel | ah, that might be due to how apt-check works.. | 21:23 |
yofel | now the question is whether that's from muon-updater or kubuntu-notification-helper (I think it's the updater) | 21:24 |
soee_ | sgclark: always one time notification ? | 21:24 |
sgclark | got one notification and have a red icon in tray | 21:24 |
sgclark | snele: yofel updated kde-workspace has published | 21:26 |
yofel | so, did an apt update. 3 updates before, 3 updates after it and no notification at all | 21:26 |
soee_ | yofel: 15.10 ? | 21:27 |
yofel | yep | 21:27 |
sgclark | oh hmm I have no updates and it is red, that is unexpected | 21:27 |
mparillo | yofel: For VM snapshots, I think I would have to upgrade my VMware Player to Workstation. Fortunately my work laptop makes installation relatively quick. And re-start is complete. Step 1 is to upgrade, dist-upgrade 14.04 and re-boot? | 21:28 |
clivejo | is red not bad? | 21:28 |
sgclark | when I see red I expect attention is required | 21:28 |
clivejo | ditto | 21:28 |
yofel | red in the updates means security updates I believe | 21:28 |
sgclark | that is what I would expect, but my system has no updates | 21:29 |
sgclark | System up to date | 21:29 |
clivejo | pending reboot? | 21:29 |
sgclark | but red >.< | 21:29 |
sgclark | oh hmm | 21:29 |
clivejo | been a few kernel updates recently | 21:29 |
sgclark | don't think so , but perhap, used to get another notification for that though | 21:29 |
sgclark | rebooted today | 21:30 |
soee_ | sgclark: this is how it behaves now, if you do updates those icons stay in systray till reboot | 21:30 |
soee_ | or also after reboot | 21:30 |
sgclark | it remains red forever because I had security updates? that does not seem logical | 21:30 |
* yofel might be wrong.. | 21:31 | |
sgclark | ok rebooting to see for myself, I am now curious | 21:31 |
yofel | hm, here updater doesn't seem quite in sync with apt | 21:32 |
yofel | installed all 3 updates, now I still have a green symbol telling me that I have 3 pending updates | 21:32 |
soee_ | yofel: @ this notification spam, i think the slower connection/more time it need to fetch packages, the more the same notification we see | 21:34 |
soee_ | i remember on a slow connection i'v seen it like 20 times | 21:34 |
yofel | which makes be really believe that this is related to apt-check. That can trigger multiple times during an update run | 21:36 |
soee_ | my top 3 'visual' bugs in 15.10: 1. missing nm/plasma-pa icon in systray (plasma devs tries to fix it, but no fix yet), 2. updates icon stays in systray when there are no updates, 3. updates notification spam :) | 21:38 |
sgclark | ok reboot and now my updates icon is green and in the hidden icons panel | 21:40 |
sgclark | which is fine | 21:40 |
sgclark | but I have to enter my wifi password every time now. Which is exteremly annoying | 21:40 |
snele | sgclark: i can confirm that apt update, apt install -f and apt dist-upgrade fixed issue. Thank you for doing backports | 21:41 |
sgclark | excellent, thanks for testing! | 21:41 |
yofel | boom | 21:43 |
yofel | Unpacking plasma-dataengines-workspace (4:4.11.14-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.04~ppa8) over (4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2) ... | 21:43 |
yofel | dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/plasma-dataengines-workspace_4%3a4.11.14-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.04~ppa8_amd64.deb (--unpack): | 21:43 |
yofel | trying to overwrite '/usr/share/kde4/apps/plasma/shareprovider/im9/metadata.desktop', which is also in package plasma-widgets-workspace 4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 | 21:43 |
yofel | dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) | 21:43 |
snele | sgclark: about your wifi password problem, I usually fix it by removing connection and then connect again to that network | 21:43 |
sgclark | will try thanks | 21:43 |
sgclark | yofel: err ok fixing | 21:44 |
sgclark | how much longer is trusty supported? | 21:44 |
sgclark | this is clunky :( | 21:44 |
yofel | april 2019 | 21:44 |
sgclark | ouch | 21:44 |
yofel | well, that does not include our PPA, but it is nice to care about it. (And we usually do that until the next LTS is out) | 21:45 |
yofel | so, april next year | 21:45 |
sgclark | ok | 21:45 |
soee_ | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-KDE-SIG-Loss | 21:46 |
sgclark | I don't see kde putting out much more in qt4, though do you know if they will? | 21:46 |
yofel | I don't think they will. Maybe the occasional security patch or so | 21:46 |
=== genii is now known as zombiegenii | ||
yofel | oh right, I did want to upload that sddm CVE | 21:47 |
mparillo | sgclark: My 14.04 VM is dist-upgraded. Ready for me to re-try the PPA? | 21:49 |
sgclark | nah gotta wait again, yofel found another boom | 21:49 |
=== zombiegenii is now known as genii | ||
sgclark | fixing now | 21:50 |
mparillo | I can wait. Dinner soon however. BTW, can the PPA be applied by adding the source in Muon-updater, and using it? Or do I need to also apt dist-upgrade? | 21:50 |
sgclark | muon will dist-upgrade | 21:51 |
soee_ | uh finally it has Critical importance https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/1501041 | 21:51 |
ubottu | Launchpad bug 1501041 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "No visible display in non gnome sessions when using nvidia drivers via nvidia-prime until screen goes to sleep, then waked up" [Critical,Confirmed] | 21:51 |
mparillo | TY. So I will wait for the testers call then? | 21:52 |
sgclark | yeah uploading now, but needs to build | 21:52 |
valorie | may I just say: y'all rock | 21:53 |
valorie | and I love you all | 21:53 |
* sick_rimmit Waves, Nods and Grins | 21:53 | |
sick_rimmit | Yes.. Y'all do | 21:53 |
yofel | :) | 21:53 |
sgclark | :) | 21:54 |
=== mck182|laggynet is now known as mck182__ | ||
=== benonsoftware is now known as MisterHiyas | ||
mparillo | valorie: {{{hugs}}} | 22:13 |
valorie | thank you mparillo! | 22:14 |
valorie | {{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}} to you as well | 22:14 |
mparillo | P.S. During the drama, I tried Fedora 22 KDE. Not even close. | 22:14 |
valorie | I love that we are on the cutting (and even bleeding) edge | 22:15 |
valorie | AND that we take care of our silent LTS users | 22:15 |
valorie | all those people who never file a bug report or complain on IRC/lists/forums | 22:15 |
yofel | Fedora has it's use cases, but it's more for devs I think | 22:15 |
yofel | opensuse is usually the RPM user distro | 22:16 |
sgclark | I have not really found a distro I hated. I have enjoyed most at one time or another. Community is what has kept me here the longest. | 22:18 |
mparillo | yofel: True, but some RPMs that claim to be both for Fedora and OpenSUSE are only really tested on Fedora (I have been burned). | 22:19 |
mparillo | sgclark: +1 | 22:19 |
valorie | so true, sgclark | 22:19 |
valorie | same experience here | 22:20 |
ScottK | Before I used Kubuntu, I tried OpenSUSE, which was a disaster (this was in 2006, so don't hold it against them). I gave up when the attitude of the people that had broken the latest OpenSUSE release was that if I wanted it to work, I should be using SLED. | 22:23 |
mparillo | And SLED (at least today) defaults to gnome. | 22:24 |
ScottK | At the time, I don't think it did. | 22:25 |
ScottK | Either way, it led to me having a requirement for a distro I used to not be a 'community edition' of the real product. | 22:25 |
sick_rimmit | We have a brilliant community here, I have been hanging around Linux and Open Source since the Dark Ages. We have a special friendly environment. | 22:27 |
sick_rimmit | I am really hoping to do my part in growing and developing that.. | 22:28 |
ScottK | As long as you keep your head down and don't get the CC annoyed at you, sure. | 22:28 |
sick_rimmit | Well I think my contribution sits in Promotion, Advocacy and Talk.. | 22:29 |
sick_rimmit | I do lots of Talking | 22:29 |
sick_rimmit | I like talking | 22:29 |
sick_rimmit | and there is chance I might be good at it | 22:29 |
sick_rimmit | I'm worried about packagers and release managers.. | 22:29 |
sick_rimmit | I've tried working on packaging. I can do it, but it takes a lot of focused time | 22:30 |
sick_rimmit | This is something I have very little of, family, young children, work | 22:30 |
sick_rimmit | So I run around saying | 22:30 |
sick_rimmit | "Yay Kubuntu, try it. It's ACE!" | 22:31 |
sick_rimmit | lol | 22:31 |
ahoneybun | the community is +1 to me as well, openSUSE I find a big hard to get into | 22:33 |
valorie | ScottK: that is a concern, since I think we all continue to object to the canonical IP policy | 22:34 |
valorie | and I for one will not let that go | 22:34 |
ScottK | I worry less about the fact that people are objecting and more about how the fact that the CC got tired of hearing about it was handled. | 22:35 |
valorie | we aren't just "open source" | 22:35 |
valorie | we're free and open | 22:35 |
clivejo | are the KCC putitng out a statement about who is taking over from Jonathan? | 22:35 |
ScottK | Need to decide first. | 22:35 |
valorie | clivejo: should we? | 22:35 |
ScottK | valorie: You need to pick a release manager. | 22:35 |
sgclark | yofel and me as backup | 22:36 |
valorie | it has to be one person? | 22:36 |
ScottK | For a long time it's been JR and me as assistant. | 22:36 |
valorie | I'd like to see a team | 22:36 |
clivejo | I dunno, I thought thats what you guys do! | 22:36 |
ScottK | valorie: Primary and alternate is great. | 22:36 |
sgclark | yofel as main and me as backup! | 22:36 |
ScottK | clivejo: release management is a technical function. KC does is broader than that. | 22:36 |
valorie | ok, as long as both people are trained | 22:36 |
clivejo | I was expecting a statement following Jon's stepping down | 22:36 |
valorie | KC is mostly about Kubuntu members | 22:37 |
sgclark | trained? | 22:37 |
sgclark | by whom? | 22:37 |
yofel | right, that's the plan, we just didn't send a mail out yet. I'll talk to the release team over the weekend about how what where we should do that | 22:37 |
ScottK | valorie: You also get to decide non-technical policy and stuff. | 22:37 |
valorie | sgclark: I'm worried about the bus factor | 22:37 |
sgclark | bus factor? | 22:37 |
ScottK | I'm happy to assist/train. | 22:37 |
valorie | life happens, as we've seen | 22:37 |
valorie | ScottK: cool | 22:37 |
sgclark | yofel and I already agreed to team it, he just is taking lead | 22:38 |
valorie | bus factor = what happens when the expert gets hit by a bus? | 22:38 |
valorie | thanks yofel | 22:38 |
sgclark | I think more than two is too many cooks in the kitchen | 22:39 |
valorie | I'm willing to write a press release if that is a useful thing | 22:39 |
yofel | valorie: number of people that have to be hit by a bus for a project to die | 22:39 |
valorie | sgclark: a small number is good if there is some documentation | 22:39 |
valorie | IF | 22:39 |
valorie | and I assume that the job has changed some over the years | 22:40 |
valorie | yofel: yes, I've heard that version too | 22:40 |
ScottK | One challenge both of you will have that neither JR nor I did is that you aren't on the ~ubuntu-release team. That's not essential, but it does make some things easier. | 22:40 |
ScottK | To up your chances of being on the team, you want to get core-dev. | 22:41 |
sgclark | so we have yofel -> me -> and ScottK to assist, I think we will survive | 22:41 |
yofel | right, but I think we'll manage still - we'll just be slower | 22:41 |
* yofel aims for MOTU first, then I'll go from there | 22:41 | |
ScottK | Yeah. | 22:41 |
sgclark | same | 22:41 |
ScottK | Good plan. | 22:41 |
yofel | I at least need new-source upload rights, otherwise things will get painful | 22:41 |
sgclark | I am willing to put inn the effort to be on the necessary teams | 22:41 |
sgclark | in | 22:42 |
sgclark | kde-workspace is ready yofel mparillo | 22:43 |
sgclark | please test :) | 22:43 |
valorie | sgclark: what I meant by training was having someone to answer questions, and just learning on the job | 22:44 |
valorie | shadeslayer can tell you about the joys of MOTU | 22:44 |
valorie | :-) | 22:44 |
sgclark | that depends , has Jonathan said anything about training yofel? | 22:44 |
ScottK | yofel: You might want to consider just syncing Kf5 from Debian this cycle. maxyz has been pretty quick about uploading new releases and it would make things easier. | 22:44 |
valorie | ScottK: does that mean junking the CI work? | 22:45 |
ScottK | I don't know. | 22:45 |
yofel | I'm not sure how good that'll work out with our branches, but that would be a good idea probably | 22:45 |
ScottK | It all comes out of the same git repositories, so it may just mean pointing at different branches. | 22:45 |
sgclark | I do not wish to junk that, but I don't know that we have a server to keep it on | 22:45 |
valorie | well, doesn't ubuntu now have CI? | 22:45 |
yofel | OTOH, if we can do easy merges, then that would also be an idea | 22:46 |
yofel | ubuntu uses CI for autopackagetests at least | 22:46 |
sgclark | yeah but it does nt have the tololing harald worked on for kde specific stuff | 22:46 |
sgclark | tooling | 22:46 |
* sgclark can't type | 22:46 | |
sgclark | I could likely take it over , but I do not have the resources to host it | 22:47 |
valorie | would be good to get that moved onto Ubuntu infra, IMO | 22:47 |
valorie | or work out something with Harald/JR | 22:47 |
valorie | not sure what they are up to, technically | 22:47 |
yofel | I can help out with the hosting for the time being if we really need to set up our own | 22:48 |
yofel | we'll see | 22:48 |
sgclark | Mark ddid say to let him know if we need anything, so there is that | 22:49 |
valorie | heh | 22:50 |
valorie | hmmm, sitter isn't here -- I would value his insight | 22:51 |
valorie | Riddell: anything to add? | 22:51 |
maxyz | It shouldn't be that hard to merge the debian branches into the unstable ones. Feel free to ping me if you find a big divergence. | 22:51 |
sgclark | thnas maxyz :) | 22:51 |
sgclark | err thanks | 22:51 |
yofel | it certainly not hard to merge them, I'm just curious if there's a reasonable way to automate it | 22:52 |
yofel | *it's | 22:52 |
maxyz | If you promise me that the person that signs the uploaded tags knows about them I'll consider to start merging them again... | 22:54 |
sgclark | fiddle with this https://github.com/apachelogger/kubuntu-repo-merge ? | 22:54 |
maxyz | But right now I need to go to bed | 22:54 |
sgclark | night :) | 22:54 |
sgclark | signs the uploaded tags - what does that mean? | 22:55 |
sgclark | afk | 22:56 |
santa_ | yofel: do-all git merge ... ? | 23:04 |
yofel | right, I'm more wondering about how to handle conflicts (e.g. changelog) | 23:04 |
santa_ | I think there was something to handle that automagically | 23:05 |
yofel | there is dpkg-mergechangelogs | 23:06 |
yofel | need to look how to use that again | 23:06 |
santa_ | regarding the packaging, I don't think syncing packages from debian is a good solution, but merging the branches and upload the packages | 23:07 |
santa_ | I can help with that, my only problem, as usual, is the lack of permissions everywhere | 23:08 |
ScottK | I'm sure the fact that you're banned from Debian Qt-KDE doesn't affect that opinion. | 23:16 |
sgclark | well we need to do whatever results in the best end user experience while we rebuild our process | 23:20 |
santa_ | ScottK: well, banned or not I can help with the upload of new packages to kubuntu, however not having permissions to do things such as uploading to ppa's - for instance - limits my ability to help, obviously | 23:22 |
sgclark | it is an LTS so stability is of great importance | 23:23 |
sgclark | santa_: you have to apply for kubuntu dev then | 23:23 |
santa_ | sgclark: yep, in process to get the kubuntu membership already | 23:23 |
sgclark | ok | 23:24 |
ScottK | I would find it surprising if your perspective on the usefulness of syncing from Debian wasn't colored by your experience there. | 23:27 |
ScottK | Of course my perspective about Debian is also based on my experience with it. | 23:28 |
sgclark | are we really that far diverged from them? I dont think we are | 23:28 |
ScottK | Not where I've checked. | 23:28 |
sgclark | and we need to do debian merges anyway | 23:28 |
sgclark | dunno I think at least for this release it is a good idea. yofel and I still have alot of work with getting on teams and whatnot | 23:29 |
sgclark | never ending backports | 23:30 |
sgclark | and everything else | 23:30 |
sgclark | we need more packagers >.< | 23:30 |
santa_ | well, I don't think withdrawing kubuntu's ability to upload its own packages is going to help in the long term | 23:30 |
sgclark | oh we withdraw the ability to upload? | 23:31 |
yofel | where did that come from? | 23:31 |
sgclark | that does not sound right | 23:31 |
yofel | I didn't hear about that, and I'm fairly certain that's not the plan | 23:32 |
yofel | doesn't change the fact that we barley have any people left that can upload more than the kubuntu set | 23:32 |
sgclark | I can only upload kubuntu and not even all of that | 23:32 |
sgclark | so yeah I have to fix that | 23:33 |
santa_ | sgclark: but you can upload all of frameworks/plasma/apps? | 23:36 |
sgclark | few lingering apps that I get rejects on | 23:36 |
sgclark | but mostly yeah | 23:37 |
santa_ | ScottK: but indeed my opinions of debian are "coloured" by my experience there - such as the well known lack of manpower of the debian qt/kde team and other things | 23:40 |
santa_ | which I suffered in first person, and which was a problem before I joined, while I was in, and after I left | 23:41 |
=== nhandler is now known as evilnhandler | ||
sgclark | well we are going to have that problem here. So we need to make do with what have and make the best of it. | 23:44 |
santa_ | that depends on the direction that the project takes | 23:45 |
santa_ | that's "terra incognita" for now | 23:46 |
santa_ | I think with the right people here, with a minimum of 3 packagers we have the thing saved | 23:47 |
santa_ | or even 1 XD | 23:48 |
santa_ | but I think there will be more than one I hope | 23:48 |
santa_ | we will see how the thing evolves | 23:48 |
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