[00:43] <cyphermox> flocculant: there's some limitation in how you can retrace crashes if packages in the chain come from a PPA, so it very much depends on which packages you're talking about
[00:44] <flocculant> mmk
[00:45] <flocculant> I assumed there was a real reason rather than some - "it's not offical" just never actaully thought too much about it
[00:45] <cyphermox> right
[00:45] <flocculant> generally anything that 'xubuntu ppa' is about is just an upstream fix prior to it landing in ubuntu I guess
[00:46] <flocculant> that's certainly be the ppa's I would be wondering about for sure
[00:46] <cyphermox> it's because if you try to retrace and in the chain you have something that comes from a PPA, you won't get the debug symbols for that
[00:46] <cyphermox> because usually you didn't have debug packages built for PPAs
[00:47] <flocculant> so could that be added to ppa - if it was an 'official one's so that it worked?
[00:47] <cyphermox> I don't know
[00:47] <flocculant> bear in mind I don't understand packaing or code at all - so will ask silly questions :)
[00:48] <cyphermox> don't worry, I can ask my share of silly questions too
[00:48] <flocculant> or rather ones that have a reason - just one I've not thjought of because: )
[00:49] <flocculant> but one day the question will turn out to just be emperor's clothes I hope :D
[00:49] <knome> cyphermox, i'd like your silly questions please ;)
[00:49] <knome> (but make sure they are *really* silly)
[00:49] <cyphermox> what's the universe?
[00:49] <cyphermox> :D
[00:49] <knome> something that the masters maintain
[00:50] <flocculant> knome: only because you are bored with my silly question ...
[00:50] <flocculant> cyphermox: that's not silly, that's why we are here :p
[00:50] <knome> flocculant, very true, without universe there wouldn't be xubuntu
[00:50] <flocculant> the answer is 'outside' ofc
[00:51] <cyphermox> I can do you another: what is time?
[00:52] <knome> Package: time
[00:52] <knome> Description-en: GNU time program for measuring CPU resource usage
[00:52] <knome> cyphermox, you're not even trying, right?
[00:52] <cyphermox> I'm perhaps too metaphysical.
[00:52] <knome> or not silly enough
[00:53] <flocculant> only a thing called god called be too metaphysical
[00:53] <flocculant> desperately waiting for balloons to tell me to stop :p
[00:53] <knome> flocculant, does that mean i'm too metahysical, since every time i tell a really bad joke you say "oh my god"
[00:53] <knome> +p
[00:54] <flocculant> s/god/word
[00:54] <flocculant> :p
[00:54] <knome> :P
[00:55] <flocculant> cyphermox: anyway - sriously thanks :)
[00:56]  * knome thanks, bows and tiptoes backwards back to the closet with his clown outift
[00:56] <flocculant> I'll just go back to my lot and tell them cyphermox said "No"
[00:56] <flocculant> no - I'll ask knome to tell them :)
[00:56] <knome> flocculant, tell them that we can do it if we build the debug packages too
[00:56] <cyphermox> knome: might take a bit more than just that
[00:56] <flocculant> no - Sean will slap me
[00:57] <flocculant> cyphermox: ha
[00:57] <knome> cyphermox, we'll start with that and if it isn't enough, we'll take the whip out and tell our tech lead to do more
[00:57] <cyphermox> you should take a look at apport-retrace, see if it absolutely needs dbgsym packages, and discuss the situation with pitti
[00:57] <knome> >:)
[00:57] <knome> or we can ask him to do that instead
[00:57] <knome> your choice
[00:58] <cyphermox> knome: tbh, building debug packages in the packaging code comes with its own set of problems
[00:58] <cyphermox> namely, it's duplicated work since the buildds will spew some for you as it strips the packages when building things, it's just that for PPA those may be thrown out
[00:58] <flocculant> I refuse to get drawn into this - so I can ask why vb only questions at the last minute :D
[00:59] <knome> mhm
[01:00] <flocculant> cyphermox: I do apologise - I just tried to ask a simple question, which no was a suitable answer to - but knome just knomed it :D
[01:00] <flocculant> and I do jest of course :)
[01:01] <cyphermox> hey, it would be useful for me too sometimes, when debugging stuff
[01:01] <flocculant> yep
[01:01] <cyphermox> I'm not too fond of doing uploads for stuff that may or may not work properly :)
[01:02] <flocculant> cyphermox: I am sure - it's been a long day - I'm much more serious if I am in -release or -desktop
[01:02] <knome> i don't think there are stupid questions...
[01:03] <knome> and asking is never bad
[01:03] <knome> fortunately kind people like cyphermox sometimes even answer me
[01:03] <flocculant> asking is never bad - but there are stupid questions too
[01:03] <flocculant> and I can answer those as not signed CoC
[01:04] <cyphermox> tsk tsk
[01:04] <flocculant> :)
[01:04] <flocculant> can you really see me doing that?
[01:05] <cyphermox> gasp.
[01:05] <flocculant> but there are stupid questions - I'm brazen enough to ask them :D
[01:05] <flocculant> and learn too ;)
[01:05] <knome> ^ same goes here...
[01:06] <knome> but really, if we didn't ask, we'd not have this and that in xubuntu
[01:06]  * flocculant actually learnt a fair old bit this week
[01:06] <flocculant> knome: yep
[01:06] <cyphermox> so yeah, I'm always happy to answer questions and do what I can to help
[01:06] <flocculant> I leant stuff about evince and +gtk this week
[01:07] <flocculant> cyphermox: yea I know - you do have the badge
[01:07] <cyphermox> the badge?
[01:08] <knome> cyphermox, he's referring to the "stupid" stamp on your forehead
[01:08] <knome> oh, oops, i wasn't supposed to say that aloud
[01:08] <flocculant> cyphermox: the 'supernamry extranice zoobuntuyguy' badge
[01:08] <flocculant> cos you're just this nice guy :D
[01:09] <knome> /msg flocculant didn't we agree we didn't use that name, but "stupid"
[01:09] <knome> "oops"
[01:09] <knome> i'm just kidding of course :)
[01:09] <cyphermox> I also know just enough to be real dangerous ;)
[01:09] <knome> \o/
[01:09] <knome> that's the best
[01:09] <flocculant> /msg knome thoguht we decideds cyphermox could have it once
[01:09] <knome> knowing too much makes you too self-aware
[01:09] <flocculant> cyphermox: :)
[01:10] <knome> what's with all the irc clients tonight :P
[01:10] <flocculant> Friday I suppose
[01:10] <flocculant> oir fat fingurese
[01:10] <knome> :Ð
[01:11] <flocculant> drif itype that
[01:23] <knome> cyphermox, you definitely want to talk with bluesabre about the PPA bug reporting issues
[01:23] <knome> cyphermox, he can actually give you half-sensible answers
[01:24] <bluesabre> maybe
[01:25] <knome> sssh, don't spoil it too early
[01:25] <flocculant> trying to remember to read backlog ...
[01:26] <knome> flocculant, i'll gather the juicy parts as usual to the xubuntu-gossip mailing list
[01:26] <flocculant> \o/
[01:27] <tsimonq2> knome: wot?
[01:27] <flocculant> hi tsimonq2
[01:27] <knome> tsimonq2, hullo
[01:28] <flocculant> tsimonq2: have you relaxed a bit now?
[01:28] <flocculant> :)
[01:28] <tsimonq2> knome: is there REALLY a xubuntu-gossip list, or was that a joke?
[01:28] <knome> tsimonq2, it's totally a joke
[01:28] <flocculant> there really is
[01:28] <tsimonq2> flocculant: oh...hahahaha...I am always that hyper if not more XD
[01:28] <flocculant> don't belive knome
[01:28] <knome> well, there you go...
[01:28] <knome> ;)
[01:28]  * tsimonq2 Googles it
[01:28] <flocculant> :)
[01:29] <tsimonq2> :P
[01:29] <tsimonq2> nope
[01:29] <flocculant> I tried googling it once - had safe search off
[01:29] <flocculant> bad move
[01:29] <tsimonq2> ?
[01:29] <flocculant> on his part
[01:29] <knome> it mignt help finding it if you knew the secret URL for it
[01:31] <flocculant> yep
[01:31] <flocculant> it's on gggogle I believe
[01:33] <flocculant> tsimonq2: anyway - chill a bit :)
[01:33] <tsimonq2> flocculant: ask w x l about it
[01:33] <tsimonq2> :P
[01:34] <knome> okok, here's the link to the archives: http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-gossip
[01:36] <flocculant> wxl: apparently I need to ask w x l something - but noit sure?
[01:37] <flocculant> tsimonq2 said so ...
[01:37] <flocculant> :P
[01:39] <tsimonq2> flocculant: ask him about why I am so hyper :P
[01:39] <flocculant> you can of course do that
[01:39] <tsimonq2> flocculant: well don't yell at me to chill out unless you ask him
[01:41] <sallon> Hello body, i would like change my driver in ubuntu
[01:41] <knome> sallon, this isn't a support channel, try #ubuntu
[01:42] <sallon> ok thank
[02:42] <flocculant> tsimonq2: on the other hand - whoever is the release manager for whatever flavour you represent will tell you what they require ;)
[02:44] <tsimonq2> flocculant: what is that supposed to mean?
[02:46] <flocculant> ask people what and how to ask things in official channel like -release, it reflects on all flavours - cheers :)
 What is the current state of Xenial? Open for development? What?
[02:47] <flocculant> what sort of comment is that to people who are doing their job
[02:47] <flocculant> ?
[02:49] <flocculant> we might all be part-time, but please treat those in -channels who work for Canonical and then do things for 'us' with the respect they all deserve
[02:49] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[02:49] <flocculant> s/part-time/part-time volunteers
[02:50] <flocculant> tsimonq2: it reflects on us all ;)
[02:51] <tsimonq2> flocculant: so your point is I should ask in an official channel?
[02:52] <flocculant> tsimonq2: no
[02:52] <flocculant> tsimonq2: my point is to be polite
[02:52] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[02:53] <flocculant> twice with the :) - read this please http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct
[02:53] <flocculant>  youy can gpg sign that thing
[02:54] <tsimonq2> flocculant: already done months ago
[02:54] <flocculant> my basic issues is - be rude and I WILL be ruder
[02:54] <flocculant> tsimonq2: so why do you NOT do it?
[02:55] <tsimonq2> flocculant: show me the rule that I am breaking and I will fix it
[02:55] <flocculant> that's like saying 'who gives one'~@
[02:55] <tsimonq2> so what are you implying here?
[02:56] <flocculant> tsimonq2: you are rude, care little for anyone else but yourself
[02:56] <flocculant> hang on
[02:56] <tsimonq2> rude...calling ME rude...tsk tsk tsk'
[02:57] <flocculant> I will find the first line of the CoC which says don't
[02:57] <flocculant> "Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself captures the spirit of being human.
[02:57] <flocculant> that one
[02:57] <flocculant> read it tsimonq2
[02:57] <flocculant> the whole thing tsimonq2
[02:58] <teward> flocculant: hate to point this out, but you could use a dose of the CoC yourself.
[02:58] <flocculant> cool - cya tomorrow
[02:58] <flocculant> teward: :D
[02:58] <tsimonq2> ooh get rekt
[02:58] <teward> so how about both of you, take your keyboards, click the entry box...
[02:58] <teward> type /quit
[02:58] <teward> and cool it for a while
[02:58] <teward> then come back
[02:58] <tsimonq2> teward: no!
[02:58] <tsimonq2> :P
[02:58] <teward> (I do NOT want to have to call chanops to break you two apart)
[02:58] <flocculant> :)
[02:59] <tsimonq2> teward: but we aren't breaking any rules...
[02:59]  * teward rereads, sees sniping at each other, calling each other rude, being overall generally non-supportive of a civil environment
[03:00] <teward> ***In any case***
[03:00] <teward> lets move on
[03:00] <teward> and stop shooting at each other
[03:01] <tsimonq2> teward: well sorrryyy...this sir was being really critical...I got defensive
[03:03] <tsimonq2> teward: do you understand my point of view? :P
[03:04] <flocculant> he possibly does - on the other hand I don't  :)
[03:04] <flocculant> you really just need to chill out n -release
[03:04] <flocculant> they don't need it and have a job to do - which DOES not include flavours
[03:05] <flocculant> unless it's  changed - thanks tsimonq2
[06:46] <pitti> knome, cyphermox: apport-retrace doesn't require dbgsym packages, it just tries to grab as many as it can; otherwise you'll end up with worse stack traces
[06:47] <pitti> but if you e. g. have locally built debs with debug symbols already installed, that's fine
[12:17] <balloons> Morning to you all
[12:25] <cyphermox> pitti: I suppose I misspoke by saying apport-retrace, I meant apport in general and the requirement for up to date packages / not PPA packages
[12:26] <pitti> cyphermox: ah, that's something completely different then :) requiring for up-to-date packages is a design decision, not really a bug
[12:26] <cyphermox> I know
[12:26] <pitti> there's a secret way to disable it if you must, but we really don't want to advertise this
[12:27]  * pitti bbl
[16:08] <wxl> flocculant: says who?