[00:25] <daftykins> guy can't even work out when a path exists :(
[00:26] <TJ-> You wonder why I'm quiet?!
[00:27] <Bashing-om> Sgt Schartz: " I know nuthing " .
[00:29] <TJ-> oh love-er-ly ... Ubuntu with snappy packaging is now termed "Ubuntu Personal" and everything preceeding it is called 'legacy applications'
[00:29] <TJ-> Way-to-go in marginalising
[00:30] <daftykins> :/
[00:30] <daftykins> once standard .deb packages are gone, that's really going to cut off some of the bridges ubuntu has as a distro, no?
[00:31] <TJ-> They won't go, but this push to Snappy is doing what the push to Unity/Phone did, but moreso
[00:31] <TJ-> Turn off a large part of the settled casual techy base why can choose to go elsewhere, leaving the clueless users and the bleeding-edge devs and very little in between
[00:32] <TJ-> s/why/who/
[00:33] <daftykins> :(
[00:33] <daftykins> it did seem to me like snappy might spell a time to move off ubuntu, yeah
[00:34] <TJ-> I love the technical idea; it is long overdue, but I hate the way it feels like it is dictated without consultation even with active users/supporters like us.
[00:36] <TJ-> binary diffs, contained apps that don't cause dependency issues outside their own requirements, that's all good stuff and means users can get more up-to-date application versions even long into, say, an LTS cycle, without the pain of backports
[00:36] <Bashing-om> @ 10.04 I became comfortanle with ubuntu, then the changes just kept coming . Now I like what I have, and I have no desire for any changes . What am I to do in this new world .
[00:38] <TJ-> I'm going to drop my oar in on the 'convergence' meetings, regarding lack of developer design/support/testing for decent multi-monitor/GPU configurations
[00:39] <TJ-> And I want to see if there's a QA session where I can bring up the need for automated fault detection and reporting, by monitoring log files
[00:42] <Bashing-om> TJ-: ^ great thought .. wonderful way to build a solid data base .
[00:42] <TJ-> The only one I see is the 16.04 LTS Desktop QA Plan tomorrow/today 1600 UTC
[02:10] <OerHeks> wine in ubuntu on a windows host.. lolz
[02:12] <OerHeks> now a graphic test suite
[02:13] <OerHeks> oh there is lotus
[02:14] <Bashing-om> shift change ! lotuspsychje
[02:14] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[02:15] <lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks and Bashing-om
[02:15] <OerHeks> yeah, special for you: ubuntu in virtualbox, on a windows host, help needed with opengl3
[02:15] <lotuspsychje> brrrr
[02:15]  * lotuspsychje hides
[02:15] <lotuspsychje> hi daftykins :p
[02:16] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: from now on, ill take only singleboot ubuntu support lol
[02:16] <daftykins> ^_^
[02:17] <OerHeks> I don't even do single boot :-D
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> haha
[02:17] <OerHeks> 2 kernels else ..
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> zero boot
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> no boot device found
[02:19] <OerHeks> How long does it take to print 10 trillion dollars?
[02:20] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: is that a trick question?
[02:21] <lotuspsychje> my scanner isnt too big :p
[02:21] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/10/ubuntu-16-04-release-schedule-release-schedule-date-xenial-xerus
[02:22] <lotuspsychje> no hot news today
[02:23] <OerHeks> answer: 8 years .. https://www.rt.com/usa/320548-obama-signs-deal-double/
[02:23] <lotuspsychje> oO
[02:23] <lotuspsychje> trillions like candy
[02:27] <lotuspsychje> another ubuntu toy: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/orbbec-persee-world-s-first-3d-camera-computer#/story
[02:28] <lotuspsychje> grabbed@ https://twitter.com/ubuntu
[02:31] <lotuspsychje> soon our homes gonna turn into an ubuntu jungle with spiderdrones, flying drone with security cam,mycroft to make you real lazy and orbbec to keep an eye
[02:39] <daftykins> someone give skweek a perfect "find" command for large files in their entire / file system if they know it? :)
[02:39] <daftykins> i would only guess something like "find / -size 100M"
[02:40] <lotuspsychje> the space pie icon helped me alot in the past
[02:41] <lotuspsychje> cleaning out specific folders
[02:41] <Bashing-om> daftykins: ' sudo find / -type f -size +1G -exec du -h {} \; 2>/dev/null | sort -hr | head -n 10 ' .
[02:41] <daftykins> Bashing-om: excellent :D
[02:41] <daftykins> one mo we spotted that huge kern.log
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> !info libreoffice xenial
[04:07] <daftykins> ;) too early
[04:10] <Bashing-om> checking out. lotuspsychje I leave my heavy work to you , Have fun !
[04:59] <OerHeks> daftykins, 403 .. as it is in an encrypted home
[05:00] <daftykins> is it?
[05:00] <daftykins> when was encrypted usage shared?
[05:00] <OerHeks> Yes, <OerHeks> DDR, i hope your /home is not encrypted with that nginx setup
[05:00] <OerHeks> [05:45:01] <DDR> It doesn't show that. I must have messed that up.
[05:00] <OerHeks> [05:45:14] <DDR> OerHeks: It is. Why?
[05:00] <OerHeks> 15 min ago
[05:01] <daftykins> :(
[05:01] <daftykins> different channel?
[05:01] <OerHeks> no in #ubuntu
[05:01] <daftykins> hmm missed that one :D
[05:01] <OerHeks> I noticed, so i took the liberty to say it here again
[05:02] <OerHeks> so sad seeing people help, without all the info
[05:02] <OerHeks> also BAD from this guy, not to mention his setup
[05:03] <daftykins> yeah :(
[05:09] <daftykins> mmm thanks for the warning there :)
[05:09] <daftykins> glad i didn't try any further with that one
[05:10] <OerHeks> :-)
[05:11] <OerHeks> again this channel is needed for backtalks
[05:12] <daftykins> :D absolutely
[05:12] <daftykins> i'm really glad it's here now, makes the volunteering so much easier
[12:34] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[14:43] <daftykins> greetings!
[14:44] <OerHeks> heya !
[14:44] <daftykins> how's OerHeks today? :)
[14:44] <daftykins> (brb fetching lunch)
[14:45] <OerHeks> I feel shaken.
[14:45] <daftykins> earthquake?
[14:45] <OerHeks> You know, when you know you did zomething, someone else says you didn't ...
[14:46] <OerHeks> Just found out, i paid 2x rent in may 2011 .. so i get a month return
[14:46] <OerHeks> It always crossed my mind, i am a fool but i know what i do.
[14:50] <daftykins> yay :D
[14:50] <daftykins> haha i did something like that, i paid my water bill manually when it's set to come out automatically
[14:50] <daftykins> so one quarter i had like £1.30 to pay :D
[14:50] <daftykins> TJ-: afternoon sir o/
[14:51] <TJ-> Hiya... off again... damned IPv6 isn't being used again!
[14:52] <daftykins> hehehe
[14:52] <daftykins> oh dear not pikapi again
[14:53] <OerHeks> the troll yes
[15:04] <TJ-> Grrrr, I'm so angry right now I want to drop a nuke on the Chinese devs that were responsible for the code in the CPE!
[15:05] <cfhowlett> please don't tj.  I'm in Beijing and have no way to get to a fallout shelter in time.
[15:06] <TJ-> :D I'll program it to leave you a nice little garden
[15:06] <TJ-> Besides, I doubt they're in Beijing... more likely much further south!
[15:07] <TJ-> Damned thing 'forgot' the WAN and LAN-side IPv6 specific settings ... but nothing else, and I couldn't figure out why the LAN had no connectivity!
[15:09] <TJ-> I'm even more pissed off now! I signed up for the UoS UEFI session, 1500 today, just got it sorted in time ... and there's no sign of the session, its even disappeared from the UoS web-site!!
[15:09]  * TJ- rolls eyes ... yay! moved to 1800 Wednesday ... no warning!
[15:10] <daftykins> TJ-: some ISP supplied box?
[15:10] <TJ-> daftykins: Nope, Zyxel stuff I've been hacking; this one has the OEM stock firmware in. The others I've been porting OpenWRT too but that's a slow job so they aren't connected to VDSL yet
[15:11] <TJ-> It makes be cry to watch the boot-console ... so many warnings/errors scroll by. Amazing it works at all
[15:12] <daftykins> ah i didn't know you did that :D good little router OS that one
[15:12] <daftykins> just volunteering i take it?
[15:13] <TJ-> I've been doing it for a Scandanvian ISP. I have 3 hooked up to my serial multiplexer so I can work on them
[15:13] <daftykins> :D
[15:13] <daftykins> i'd love to get off the stock firmware on this Technicolor i have from my ISP
[15:14] <TJ-> VMG8{3,9}24-B10A
[15:14] <daftykins> at least you can disable TR.069 via telnet
[15:19] <TJ-> Yes. The problem is shoe-horning in all the binary-only VDSL support on these devices
[15:20] <daftykins> ah :(
[15:20] <daftykins> why do they do it that way?
[15:20] <daftykins> secret sauce modem chatter? :D
[15:22] <TJ-> Typical proprietary stuff; much if it taken unchanged from Broadcom, and you know what they're like
[15:22] <BluesKaj> been thinking of flashing my tp-link 3600 router with openwrt, but I don't have the nerve since the current oem seems to work fine
[15:22] <daftykins> mmm usually not worth the risk if you don't have a backup
[15:23] <TJ-> So a F/OSS build has to both figure out the low-level API and ABI to be compatible, AND separate the proprietary stuff out so it can be individually installed by end-users but not distributed. It makes for a complete mess.
[15:23] <BluesKaj> daftykins, yeah , it's difficult to suppress that urge to tinker, like Dr Strangelove :-)
[15:24] <TJ-> Generally router firmware updates are trouble-free these days, especially since most provide a web-interface to do it. The thing to always remember is BACKUP a TEXT version of the settings - even if that means writing them down on paper - and resetting the config before/after a firmware update to ensure the new version uses a correct config
[15:25] <daftykins> TJ-: indeed, i got tricked doing a friends 3com ADSL router once which wiped itself on update, despite having a friendly GUI
[15:25] <TJ-> the problem being, the config is stored in NVRAM, and different versions change the place/variable/string and values of some settings. Inheriting config from a different version can cause the config parse to choke
[15:25] <daftykins> thankfully it's just a phone call to our main local ISP for a password ;D
[15:26] <BluesKaj> TJ-, I do have the original firmware binary(s) just in case
[15:26] <TJ-> daftykins: that's worrying!
[15:27] <TJ-> they should only have a hashed version
[15:28] <daftykins> i'm following a friends advice to buy a little embedded box with 3 NICs to setup this config i need for Spain where some traffic will be sent over a VPN depending on rules
[15:29] <daftykins> he's a pfsense fan ;)
[15:31] <daftykins> TJ-: hey how do you fancy being posted a Technicolor TG789vn v3 to play with? ;) i see a TG582n is already in the support table
[15:31] <daftykins> oh maybe not working though :D
[15:32] <TJ-> If you can wait a year :D I'm so overloaded I don't know where to turn currently :D
[15:32] <TJ-> Usually I just run off with the Huskies :D
[15:33] <daftykins> i'll walk them for a month! ;)
[15:34] <daftykins> hehe, in fairness i should probably just buy a proper router instead of using the ISP supplied one
[15:34] <daftykins> it only does 130Mbps 802.11n
[15:34] <TJ-> 'only' !!
[15:34] <TJ-> some folks are SO spoiled :D
[15:34] <daftykins> :D
[15:35] <daftykins> but then i'm sane and use lovely cat6 to all my gear
[15:35] <daftykins> my 17th century place here is made of 2+ foot thick guernsey granite, so that hampers things
[15:36] <TJ-> My VDSL originally did 11Mbps... now down to 8Mbps due to crosstalk, and that is with the help of the passive G.Vector and better codecs in these Zyxels. Without that the BT-supplied Huewai manages about 6Mbps
[15:37] <daftykins> :(
[15:37] <TJ-> When we (my company) used to do those kinds of installs we'd generally put the WAP in the loft space with directional antennas beaming down through the floors. Only time we were caught out was when be discovered the building had beena  former radiation labatory and had faraday cages all round every room!
[15:37] <daftykins> i guess you've got quite the rural spot?
[15:38] <daftykins> wow that's quite the niche setup
[15:38] <TJ-> Yes, but a good quality copper line 2km out, so lucky to get any type of VDSL
[15:39] <TJ-> There's a few hills else we'd put in a simple mcirowave link and be able to take a feed from next to the street cabinet
[15:41] <daftykins> ouch yeah that's quite the run
[15:41] <daftykins> my line sync here: MaxBitRateDown : 51608000 bps (51.6 Mbps)   MaxBitRateUp 20086000 bps (20.0 Mbps)
[15:42] <daftykins> reported by "unpnc -s" from the miniupnpc package, pretty handy that :D
[15:42] <daftykins> as the router web admin doesn't even tell you
[15:43] <TJ-> I'm looking for a new place somewhere much further North as well so no point investing too much on it here. I'm planning on digging in my own fibre for the new location. It's a pain figuring out the potential POPs for a fibre connection though, even when there's lots of dark fibre around.
[15:44] <daftykins> i was just reading a post on a news site about a farmer guy in Scandinavia somewhere that laid his own 8km run of fibre for about £30,000
[15:44] <daftykins> er, or was that £3,000
[15:44] <TJ-> 30k sounds about right
[15:45] <TJ-> the hard part is when you've got to run along public highways
[15:45] <daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/08/want-fiber-internet-thatll-be-383500-isp-tells-farm-owner/?comments=1&post=29545117
[15:45] <daftykins> ah no, $4000 USD
[15:45] <daftykins> is UK law awkward about that?
[15:48] <TJ-> No, but you generally need a specialist company to do that part. The hard part is, you have to notify all public utilities or the intended route so they can send out engineers to mark on the ground where their cables/pipes/services are, and knowing who to talk to is the hard part.
[15:48] <TJ-> s/or/of/
[15:49] <daftykins> >_<
[15:49] <TJ-> Makes sense, since you could be digging up electric, gas, water, other fibre, copper phone, private links and other stuff
[15:57] <daftykins> yeah, i suppose it has to be buried
[15:57] <daftykins> i just started installing kubuntu 15.10 in a VM... wow.
[15:57] <daftykins> never seen such an incredibly odd looking desktop
[15:59] <TJ-> haha! I can't watch the UoS live streams because...
[15:59] <TJ-> ... they require Adobe Flash!
[15:59] <daftykins> wow, shame on Canonical
[16:00] <daftykins> don't fancy infecting your systems with chromium and pepperflash? :)
[16:00] <OerHeks> :-(
[16:00] <TJ-> UoS is a total joke
[16:00] <TJ-> Nope, I don't allow proven insecure stuff
[16:00] <daftykins> :D
[16:00] <daftykins> a very fair choice
[16:01] <OerHeks> on chrome the video's do show..
[16:02] <daftykins> ah so you can't anonymously view, how annoying
[16:04] <TJ-> Apparently, the Live feeds are Flash only
[16:05] <TJ-> This is the kind of thing that tells me Canonical/Ubuntu is not serious about the Freedom in F/OSS; liek using Google Hangouts too... requiring registration with Google.
[16:06] <daftykins> that is pretty terrible
[16:06] <TJ-> They take the Summits online instead of real-life conferences... to me that infers a responsibility to ensure the delivery is polished and much better, not piecemeal, disorganised, and proprietary
[16:08] <TJ-> Looks like the rest of my week is free then; this is a pointless waste of time. Disappointed in Ubuntu.
[16:10] <daftykins> :(
[16:12] <TJ-> People complaining the sound is unintelligable too
[16:16] <daftykins> i'm annoyed i can't just watch without reg
[16:17] <TJ-> do you have a launchpad account?
[16:17] <daftykins> yep
[16:17] <TJ-> it uses UbuntuONE SSO so you can just use that ID
[16:17] <BluesKaj> not impressed with the direction shuttleworth has taken, looks too much like the redhat path to enterprise
[16:18] <TJ-> BluesKaj: that's the thing; he wants Canonical to make a profit, and that will only come from Enterprise
[16:19] <TJ-> The push to phones and tablets is as much to do with being able to take a percentage, but that is what has caused so much disaffection for the desktop users that made Ubuntu
[16:19] <BluesKaj> not happy with 250 million he received for his company in South Africa I reckon
[16:20] <TJ-> I thought Thawte sold for more than that. However, he's sunk a great deal into Canonical/Ubuntu so there's no argument there. My issue has become the way it has been dressed up as a 'Community' when it isn't
[16:20] <daftykins> did he just sell something down there?
[16:20] <TJ-> No, years ago, that's how he became independently wealthy. Thawte was an upstart Certificate Authority that undercut Verisign
[16:20] <BluesKaj> it's sad for kubuntu, we don't know what the future holds
[16:21] <TJ-> BluesKaj: I doubt much; I was considering devoting a lot of my time to Kubuntu as a developer but the way things have gone I'd be wasting my time.
[16:21] <daftykins> ah i see
[16:22] <TJ-> Canonical was getting through £20-50 million a year the last I checked; someone has got to pay the developers wages, and that needs to be paying customers.
[16:23] <BluesKaj> TJ-, wish you'd change your mind, we need all the help we can get ...I'm not dev but i like testing what's in the pipe so to speak, running on 16.04 as we speak
[16:24] <BluesKaj> Blue Systems has supposedly taken Kubuntu under it's wing , but I don't see a lot of communication from them
[16:24] <TJ-> BluesKaj: I don't like the approach of Kubuntu; I'm not interested in just wrapping KDE projects in debian packaging, which is all it amounts to. And it is SO disorganised, no well-defined process, as a Dev you're going to spend most time trying to figure out how to work with the tooling
[16:26] <TJ-> I suggested a fix for an issue last week, which made most sense as an Ubuntu-specific patch in the packaging and was told be sitter that "we don't do that" and "upstream must approve all patches" - what's the point of packaging a separate distro if upstream calls the shots?
[16:26] <TJ-> s/be/by/
[16:27]  * BluesKaj nods
[16:37] <BluesKaj> I ran debian jessie with kde a few months back just to what changes had been made between kubuntu 14.04 and jessie , there were some differences like th audio backend etc , but effectively the 2 distros had more similarities than differences.
[16:39] <daftykins> probably a good sign to jump ship to debian then, may as well get it at source than via a third party, so to speak
[16:39] <daftykins> Bashing-om: hiya o/
[16:40] <BluesKaj> daftykins, well, if kubuntu goes away then debian and kde it is, for me at least
[16:40] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Getting back in the saddle, 'nother fun ride (?) . A good day to ya !
[16:40] <BluesKaj> not interested in mint or netrunner or any of those wannabe's
[16:41] <daftykins> Bashing-om: :D seems a *little* better today, users in #ubuntu wise
[16:43] <Bashing-om> daftykins: I have my doubts about "better" seeing Sergey's stubborness . Lead a user to good practice, can not make them .... !
[16:44] <daftykins> hehe
[16:44] <daftykins> i see he used the intel graphics driver installer too =|
[16:44] <daftykins> common mistake that one
[16:45] <Bashing-om> I have yet to see a good result by overriding Intel default open source graphic's driver. Now that is a fact .
[16:48] <daftykins> *nod* just messy PPAs to clean up after
[16:48] <daftykins> TJ-: your favourite pal weva is back
[16:48] <daftykins> ;)
[16:49] <TJ-> I just got back too; been out venting my frustration :D
[16:50] <OerHeks> i spoke to weva earlier, he is blaiming us for the help .. but the whole story is a bit strange.
[16:50] <daftykins> ah no good deed goes unpunished
[16:52] <TJ-> blaming us? in what way?
[16:54] <OerHeks> dd-ing a faulty drive .. then mounting the images .. now the original hdd is ruined .. shoot me.
[16:54] <daftykins> ugh a client wants to drive 2 x 2560x1440 res screens from a laptop and wants me to find one with a budget of £300-400
[16:55] <OerHeks> luks+lvm, when something goes wrong, we did it.
[16:58] <TJ-> I did a lot of diagnosis and he claimed some GUI tool created the encrypted devices, but I could make no sense of it
[16:59] <TJ-> I think it was supposedly gnome disks, if there is such a thing
[16:59] <OerHeks> Yes, i tried to read back, no suck action is said by us, only on the copy
[17:00] <TJ-> When I joined in he was trying to find frostshultz or some similar nickname
[17:01] <daftykins> yeah that guy spoke a few lines then ran away quickly
[17:01] <daftykins> :D
[17:01] <OerHeks> oh now it was not on this channe;
[17:02] <TJ-> I've pulled in all the IRC logs; I'll see what the history is
[17:02] <OerHeks> I am about to ask what channel ..
[17:03] <OerHeks> the last 2-3 days were many encrypted dudes with problems..
[17:04] <TJ-> looks like this is the start:
[17:04] <TJ-> /tmp/2015-11-01-#ubuntu.txt:[22:57] <weva> hello everyone, I created and mounted some disk images on my home folder. and I moved them elsewhere be
[17:04] <TJ-> cause my drive warned that there was no more free space. but after moving them, it still shows zero free space
[17:04] <OerHeks> jups that is the start
[17:05] <TJ-> I'll pastebin what grep pulled out
[17:06] <TJ-> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13092879/
[17:11] <daftykins> oh dear that daftykins fellow stuck his beak in ;)
[17:11] <daftykins> caught a whiff of 'LUKS' then ran for the hills
[17:11] <OerHeks> the original issue: <weva>	frostschutz, this was a partition that I properly created as encrypted, and then transferred 2,5 gb of files into, and locked before powering off the drive. in the next session, the partition was shown as "unknown"
[17:11] <TJ-> :D I don't know why! LUKS is the best thing to come for Linux encryption!
[17:12] <OerHeks> so goodbye data
[17:12] <daftykins> i just don't have a clue of encryption at all :)
[17:13] <TJ-> OerHeks: right; I don't believe it was LUKS at all. I suspect it was plain dm_crypt but as he used some GUI tool there's no knowing. The block device certainly did NOT have a LUKS header, although the encrypted data did start at a 4MiB offset
[17:13] <TJ-> daftykins: time to get up-to-speed on it :)
[17:13] <daftykins> naaah i'll never use it :>
[17:13] <TJ-> pffft!
[17:13] <OerHeks> glad someone in an other channel ruined it.
[17:14] <OerHeks> oke i have wrecked many servers and desktops from 2009 to now ..
[17:14] <OerHeks> but this is an endless loop, i am afraid
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[17:19] <daftykins> \o heya
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> hy daftykins
[17:19] <TJ-> Evening, is it pie n chips time already?!
[17:20] <daftykins> TJ-: i didn't get my invite ;)
[17:20] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: hey mate, we just had warm soup n bread
[17:20] <TJ-> :D nor me!
[17:20] <TJ-> need something more than soup to keep me going today :P
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> the boss of the dos, naturally :p
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> they pull the lace, and you have to run along :p
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> *dogs
[17:25] <TJ-> Not them today; jsut been extremely frustrated/disappointed with the Ubuntu Online Summit organisation, so need some comfort-food :)
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: howso frustrated?
[17:26] <daftykins> it needs flash!
[17:26]  * daftykins gasps all over again
[17:28] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I shan't repeat myself; but was intending taking part in UOS and been disillusioned by how poorly it is organised and the technical services being essentially proprietary
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> hmmm
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> organisation fault?
[17:30] <TJ-> badly designed; badly executed
[17:30] <daftykins> well well - http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-DisplayPort-Multi-Stream-Transport/dp/B00XXPYGPO/
[17:30] <daftykins> displayport multistream hubs!
[17:30] <TJ-> hahaha quote of the day: "every thing is ok, but the printer does not print"
[17:30] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: check this out: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-16.04-LTS-UOS
[17:33] <TJ-> what am I looking at?
[17:33] <lotuspsychje> online summit?
[17:34] <lotuspsychje> relevant article bout it
[17:34] <TJ-> Oh, I was (trying) to take part but various things were broke: http://summit.ubuntu.com/
[17:35] <daftykins> one would think that's the sole job of a printer :)
[17:36] <TJ-> My laser is just there to keep my toes warm on a cold day :)
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/Canonical
[17:58] <TJ-> crikey. Ubuntu no longer has a maintainer for the Network Manager packages, apparently for a while now
[18:35] <daftykins> TJ-: ooh the German lad with the funky optimus laptop setup is PMing me
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> funky lol
[18:36] <daftykins> i'm suggesting he check that /var/log/prime-supported.log
[18:42] <daftykins> nope file doesn't exist
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> maybe after nvidia-prime is installed?
[18:44] <daftykins> blank screen when that's on
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> in combination with wich driver?
[18:45] <daftykins> 352
[18:45] <daftykins> GTX 980M in an MSI laptop
[18:45] <TJ-> got to "sudo /usr/bin/prime-supported" first
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> we had some users with issues on 970 also on 15.05/15.10
[18:46] <daftykins> how should i get him to boot though, he can only get a workable desktop or TTYs with nomodeset right now
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hellowwww
[18:47] <daftykins> ah he failed to mount
[18:47] <EriC^^> hi lotuspsychje
[18:47] <daftykins> TJ-: /var/log/prime-supported.log said "No offloading required. Abort"
[18:48] <daftykins> here's his live session dmesg which required nomodeset to boot - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13093862/
[18:48] <daftykins> this is one expensive machine, i7-6700HQ :)
[18:50] <daftykins> happy to suggest he move it to the channel so you're not having to go via me :)
[18:51] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:51] <TJ-> vgaarb: setting as boot device: PCI:0000:00:02.0  <<< likely the Intel device
[18:52] <daftykins> so if no offload is needed, is the intel ok to be the boot device?
[18:52] <TJ-> [    4.681571] efifb: mode is 1920x1080x32, linelength=7680, pages=1
[18:52] <TJ-> [    4.688636] fb0: EFI VGA frame buffer device
[18:53] <daftykins> ooh so it could've brought up an image but somehow not be showing it, wrong viewport perhaps?
[18:53] <daftykins> actually that's the live session so not even hugely relevant atm
[18:53] <daftykins> i've made him try another normal boot, then going back into the live session to read logs from disk again
[18:54] <TJ-> this'll be the nvidia: [    0.357269] pci 0000:01:00.0: [10de:13d8] type 00 class 0x030200
[18:54] <TJ-> and the intel: [    0.354866] pci 0000:00:02.0: [8086:191b] type 00 class 0x030000
[18:55] <lotuspsychje> dear lord what have they done agai now
[18:55] <lotuspsychje> http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-imposes-deadline-for-new-pcs-with-windows-7-or-8-october-31-2016/
[18:56] <OerHeks> :-D
[18:56] <TJ-> so on an installed boot, without nvidia, i915 and nouveau would likely the expected drivers
[18:56] <daftykins> TJ-: here's what he sees attempting a boot without 'nomodeset' with the nvidia driver 352 or 346 installed and nvidia-prime : http://imgur.com/VbR7dfK
[18:58] <TJ->   looks like its in text console mode there; is that a Recovery boot?
[18:59] <daftykins> hmm i wonder if he's picking the wrong one to edit
[18:59] <TJ-> Has the user tried Ctrl+Alt+F1-F7 in case the active VT is elsewhere?
[18:59] <daftykins> yeah apparently any press of any Fx combo results in the screen blanking, then it never changes again
[18:59] <TJ-> the font rendering in that image looks like a text-mode VGA font; not graphics mode
[19:00] <TJ-> Is there no sign of the Plymouth splash then?
[19:01] <TJ-> If the system is booting in EFI mode AND the uefi-vga framebuffer driver is loading, it is possible that somehow that causes a conflict with intel/nvidia
[19:01] <ioria> Eric^^ are you around ?
[19:01] <TJ-> we'd need to see the dmesg/kern.log for that
[19:04] <EriC^^> ioria: hey yeah
[19:04] <EriC^^> what's up?
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> parttioning hell :p
[19:05] <ioria> there is  a guy with dual boot  issues (?)
[19:05] <ioria> a bit confused
[19:05] <ioria> DofDow
[19:05] <EriC^^> ok
[19:05] <ioria> now is  partitioning an external usb
[19:10] <daftykins> yeah here's this phantom nomodeset - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13094061/ from /mnt/var/log/kern.log
[19:11] <daftykins> so the log is grabbed from the install, mounted in the live session - yet he swears he presses 'e' to edit and confirms no 'modeset' is present on the boot entry
[19:11] <daftykins> i'm stumped :D
[19:11] <TJ-> daftykins: that log is Oct 30th
[19:11] <daftykins> oh yeah 29th even
[19:12] <TJ-> last entries 30th, after a boot
[19:12] <daftykins> oh ja
[19:12] <TJ-> daftykins: "ls -latr /mnt/var/log/" and see what was most recently updated
[19:13] <daftykins> roger that
[19:13] <daftykins> must not be getting far enough to write o0
[19:13] <TJ-> daftykins: ask if any external devices are connected (that it might be booting from) - USB hard drives, flash storage, etc.
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> pcieport 0000:00:1c.0: AER: Corrected error received: id=00e0
[19:14] <lotuspsychje> alot of those daftykins
[19:14] <daftykins> he has mentioned there's a BIOS update available
[19:14] <TJ-> Yes, the firmware looks BADLY broken
[19:14] <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13094096 logs ls
[19:14] <TJ-> there are loads of methig parse/execution errors
[19:15] <daftykins> so yeah nothing has even emerged into November yet
[19:15] <daftykins> so any test boots aren't making it very far?
[19:15] <daftykins> ok, i think i'm going to suggest the BIOS update is put on
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> 0.933492] aer 0000:00:1c.4:pcie02: service driver aer loaded
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> Oct 30 17:27:41 tobias-PC kernel: [    0.933507] pcieport 0000:00:01.0: Signaling PME through PCIe PME interrupt
[19:15] <TJ-> looks like it is likely hanging in the initrd.img, hence no logs since 31st
[19:16] <daftykins> i was suggesting the intel wifi module error couldn't surely be affecting things
[19:17] <TJ-> Id' also look at what was last installed according to /mnt/var/log/dpkg.log on the 30th; I'd bet whatever applied there is at the root of the issues
[19:17] <TJ-> it could be the initrd.img is corrupt and needs recreating. chroot for that
[19:17] <TJ-> is there a separate /boot/
[19:18] <daftykins> nah, just / and /home
[19:18] <TJ-> check the initrd.img s in /boot/ then
[19:30] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/IEvviHi ;)
[19:40] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/XqHea9A - 'Broke bios is suspected.'
[19:40] <daftykins> it's not its' fault it didn't have the opportunities we all did ;)
[19:41] <TJ-> looks like those Chinese devs got their hands on it, too :p
[19:41] <lotuspsychje> xenial packages database ubottu updated@ #ubuntu+1
[19:41] <lotuspsychje> just letting you guys know
[19:43] <daftykins> do we reckon he's up a creek without a paddle then - assuming the initrd is ok?
[19:43] <TJ-> summit is getting farcical; several people nattering on without testing the microphones, people cannot hear anything. *sigh* where did professionalism go?
[19:43] <OerHeks> trolls should reinstall. period.
[19:44] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:44] <TJ-> daftykins: it looks that way; very broken for sure, although I doubt the ACPI EC error is causing the screen issue directly.
[19:44] <daftykins> TJ-: okie dokie, thanks for your input :) gonna try the chroot to double check
[19:44] <daftykins> what would i be better off instructing, an install --reinstall of the kernel package?
[19:46] <TJ-> just an "update-initramfs -u -k <VERSION>"
[19:47] <daftykins> where ver has to be a full uname -r string, or?
[19:48] <daftykins> it's ok, spotted the man page :D
[19:49] <TJ-> yes
[19:49] <TJ-> 3.13.0-55-generic
[19:50] <TJ-> is there another PC available that could ssh in? might be worth installing openssh-server in the chroot whilst its there, and when the PC appears to hang find out its IP address from the router and try an SSH session
[19:51] <daftykins> sounds like a plan
[20:03] <lotuspsychje> what a nice crew we got here :p
[20:03] <daftykins> imgur.com/4ZLOqM4
[20:03] <daftykins> oops http://imgur.com/4ZLOqM4 there's the result after initramfs rebuild
[20:03] <daftykins> so looks like it's just a no go for Linux on that one
[20:04] <OerHeks> maybe there is a bios update?
[20:04] <daftykins> applied just earlier, yeah
[20:07] <lotuspsychje> hi wileee
[20:08] <TJ-> daftykins: any network response?
[20:09] <lotuspsychje> hi philipballew
[20:09] <daftykins> TJ-: ah i'd not gone that far yet
[20:19] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I am off to dinner; let minas114 know if they return. hopefully there'll be good news
[20:20] <daftykins> :)
[20:21] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: ok
[20:22] <lotuspsychje> lets see if it can solve the acpi :p
[20:23] <TJ-> good job I didn't go!
[20:24] <lotuspsychje> loool
[20:24] <lotuspsychje> no dinner yet for you!
[20:24] <TJ-> 2nd time lucky!
[20:24] <lotuspsychje> hahaha
[20:24]  * daftykins distracts TJ- further
[20:24] <daftykins> apparently on rebooting normally without nomodeset to test SSH connection, plymouth showed up O_O
[20:25] <TJ-> ha! so nomodeset was there?
[20:25] <daftykins> nah he says he didn't add it this boot
[20:25] <daftykins> as it was the SSH test, although it doesn't connect
[20:25] <TJ-> so been adding it manually? So with splash up, does 'Esc' send it away and display the console?
[20:26] <TJ-> it might be worth trying to boot to the busybox shell in initrd.img with "break=init" on the kernel command-line. If it gets that far, then something in the root file-system/systemd-init process may be at fault
[20:26] <daftykins> >8\/
[20:27] <daftykins> i almost said just try 14.04.3 ;)
[20:27] <daftykins> perhaps when you're feeling bored after dinner i can suggest he highlight you sir :D
[20:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:28] <TJ-> initrd.img's /init shell script has many places where it can be stopped, by putting the appropriate 'name' after "break=" there are things like 'mount' 'pre-mount' etc
[20:28] <daftykins> on a reboot he says the screen is just purple this time, escape does nothing
[20:28] <TJ-> the function maybe_break() checks for the setting. You can list the current options with "grep maybe_break /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init"
[20:29] <TJ-> sounds like locked up
[20:30] <daftykins> yeah, pretty frozen
[20:32] <TJ-> You know, it amazes me how people can fail on quote marks!
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> "what do you mean" :p
[20:33] <daftykins> '"surely not'"..;;;
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:34]  * TJ- throws Spag Bol
[20:34]  * daftykins dives and catches in mouth
[20:35] <TJ-> right, I'm off to eat before the Huskies get there first
[20:35] <lotuspsychje> bon apetit TJ-
[20:36] <daftykins> arooooooooooooooooooo!
[20:37] <daftykins> i should do that food thing too
[20:37]  * lotuspsychje hides
[20:39] <TJ-> Grrr, no food, hungry tummy!
[20:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:40]  * lotuspsychje throws some chili chips to TJ- 
[20:41] <lotuspsychje> !info libreoffice xenial
[20:41] <TJ-> om yom yom!
[20:42]  * daftykins goes to the kitchen
[20:47] <lotuspsychje> Pici: good evening :p
[20:47] <Pici> !info bash xenial
[20:48] <TJ-> troll alert! Xenial basher in! :D
[20:48] <lotuspsychje> ahaa working :p
[20:48] <Pici> ;)
[20:48] <lotuspsychje> tnx Pici
[20:49] <Pici> np
[20:49] <Pici> now to bash the rest of the bot clones
[20:49] <lotuspsychje> how many you have :p
[20:50] <Pici> 7 total bots, not counting meetingology
[20:50] <lotuspsychje> wow alot of clones
[20:51] <Pici> ubottu itself is in about 40 channels, after that it gets a bit laggy
[20:52] <lotuspsychje> must be strong server
[20:52] <lotuspsychje> Jordan_U: good evening :p
[20:52] <Jordan_U> lotuspsychje: And to you :)
[20:53] <lotuspsychje> we discussing relevant issues here lately with each other, to help users more efficiently
[20:54] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: http://news.softpedia.com/news/fedora-23-workstation-server-and-cloud-is-out-495698.shtml
[20:55] <TJ-> Anyone else think we need a 'tuneup' package, that contains scripts that analyse/apply common fixes for widespread issues?
[20:57] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: what does that mean in eglish
[20:57] <lotuspsychje> english
[20:57] <TJ-> tune-up is like automobile engine tuning
[20:57] <TJ-> adjust its config to make it perform optimally
[20:58] <lotuspsychje> !info tune-up
[20:58] <TJ-> I was thinking on the amount of time we and users waste repeating the same steps, which a script could do in less than a second
[20:58] <Pici> for what though?
[20:59] <TJ-> acpi osi is becoming common; gpu, especially Optimus; creating chroot; cryptswap breakage
[21:00] <lotuspsychje> yeah acpi and optimus are burning hot on 15.04 and 15.10
[21:00] <lotuspsychje> tons of users weekly on same issues
[21:00] <TJ-> scanning all logs files for known clues and pointing to known fixes/workarounds
[21:01] <Pici> that sounds like fodder for a good wiki page, not exactly a script
[21:01] <TJ-> I often spend more than 2 hours leading a user through what the script could do in 1 second
[21:01] <lotuspsychje> wikihow ubuntu :p
[21:02] <TJ-> Wiki is no good; the stuff I'm talking about needs informed decision making
[21:02] <TJ-> wiki quickly bit-rots too
[21:03] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: looks like paying version: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/tuneup/
[21:03] <TJ-> I was working on apport (the crash/bug reporter) recently and thought we really need something that catches issues before they become crashes, or more widely, spots issues the user may not be aware of but ought to be fixed
[21:04] <TJ-> Ha! "Disable IPv6" ... err no thanks!
[21:04] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: looks like a good idea, but howto implement it
[21:05] <TJ-> That must be REALLY old. it talks about JDK 7
[21:05] <lotuspsychje> lol
[21:05] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: The amount of intelligence we gather, and solutions, that's what I'm thinking about capturing and encoding in code
[21:05] <TJ-> anyhow, really really dinner time now
[21:05] <lotuspsychje> lol
[21:06] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: you cant leave from us
[21:06] <daftykins> XD
[21:06] <daftykins> i've been and bought mine ;)
[21:09] <Bashing-om> Admission: I generally partake at the keyboard. If I depart, just takes sooo long to get caught back up !
[21:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: something like this? https://github.com/dennyb87/factotum
[21:13] <daftykins> Bashing-om: me too :) then when i have dirty fingers (like with pizza) i sit there bouncing up and down until i wash my hands so i can type replies ;)
[21:14] <lotuspsychje> lol
[21:14] <lotuspsychje> *drool pizza*
[21:17] <lotuspsychje> wow, anyone needs a new job?
[21:17] <lotuspsychje> http://www.canonical.com/careers/all-vacancies
[21:19] <OerHeks> lotuspsychje, we all here can do this > https://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd01/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=1016
[21:19] <Jordan_U> TJ-: Can you think of a problem that could be fixed by such a script but where that fix couldn't simply be applied automatically in Ubuntu by default?
[21:19] <OerHeks> "Technical Support Engineer - Weekend Support" grinn
[21:20] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: you want easy money :p
[21:24] <lotuspsychje> nite nite guys, cya all tomorrow
[22:02] <daftykins> odd these ones that muscle in and don't have a clue o0
[22:10] <Bashing-om> Yeah. ^ Then we have to exert our mental resources watching them that they do not "miss-direct" . Oh Well .. some peoples' children .
[22:12] <TJ-> Nice one Zyxel! Check WANs IPv4/IPv6 "Use as default gateway" and it ... doesn't. Uncheck it... it does!
[22:15] <Bashing-om> TJ-: I had taken note that you had some networking issue . Great you are on the path to resolution . even though it is not intuitive .
[22:16] <TJ-> LOL yeah you could say that. Been perfect for years, router seemed to reset its config overnight, and now it it simply changed network settings at 21:43 without a reboot or any indication; couldn't figure out why IRC had gone so quiet :D
[22:17] <daftykins> TJ-: oh you must've visited the 'backwards day' web admin
[22:17] <daftykins> :D
[22:17] <TJ-> LOL ... I reckon I should have stayed in bed today!
[22:18] <TJ-> started off badly, just kept on getting worse :)
[22:19] <daftykins> oh i meant opposite, no wonder that sounded wrong
[22:19] <daftykins> i'm forgetting english! D:
[22:20] <TJ-> did headphone sound person sort themselves out
[22:21] <daftykins> uuh no came back and asked what to file against
[22:21] <TJ-> !info libavcodec56
[22:21] <daftykins>  < gnarlin> alright, more data. speaker-test did nothing. I played some music (no sound) went to the sound
[22:21] <daftykins>                  settings and selected headphones manually. Should I file this bug under alsa or pulseaudio?
[22:21] <TJ-> !info libavcodec56 wily
[22:22] <TJ-> !info libavcodec57 wily
[22:22] <TJ-> !info libavcodec58 wily
[22:22] <TJ-> Hmmm!
[22:22] <daftykins> it's hiding!
[22:22] <daftykins> that MSI guy is going to reinstall 14.04.3 tomorrow, but i don't know how well the 3.19 kernel will be on skylake
[22:23] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Have you had your appple pie today ? A slice-a-day keeps the blues away . Some avow does better than chocolate chip cookies .. NOT proven !
[22:24] <TJ-> For breakfast :)
[22:25] <daftykins> i'd like to conduct some testing on the above? to spare you all the bother...
[22:28] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Beats me then, what could possinly go wrong with the day at such a good start . // ^^ daftykins appreciation for chocolate chip cookies, maybe makes for a prime tester ?
[22:29] <daftykins> :D
[22:29] <TJ-> I think we should launch the ACPI-OS distro!
[22:30] <daftykins> i think i'll grab another mince pie and my book
[22:30] <daftykins> TJ-: sounds good :>
[22:30] <daftykins> i was going to suggest that guy try the usual acpi_backlight=vendor thing but i sense that might be useless this time?
[22:31] <TJ-> possibly that wouls work to correct things at boot-time
[22:31] <TJ-> I've seen a few of those systems that correctly re-init ACPI on resume, but not on a cold power boot
[22:32] <Bashing-om> ACPI, I just kick back and watch . It hurts slamming fingers in some one else's door .