=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/appdev/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/04/%23ubuntu-uos-appdev.html
haymanwhen the event starts ?10:51
mikkeik wil ubuntu op mij tabet kan dat10:55
Dragosis this startec12:37
Dragosis this started12:37
=== karel is now known as Guest57055
mhall119Dragos: yes?13:16
Dragoswhen this video will start13:19
Dragosand in the yesterday video you sad that at 10 i can join canonical or something? how?13:20
mhall119Dragos: I said that you had a few years still before joining Canonical13:22
mhall119in the past we've hired or contracted with developers who were as young as 1613:22
Dragosbut do u contracted with him?13:23
mhall119not anymore, he left to attend University13:23
Dragosbut how do u contracted with him?13:24
mhall119it was a work contract13:24
mhall119pretty standard13:24
Dragosohh ...13:24
Dragosnow  undertand13:25
Dragosnow      i understand13:26
Dragosask the ceo:13:27
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Scopes roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22615/scopes-roundtable/
Dragosmy headphones just got broken. lol13:54
keshalol fix them :D13:54
keshaQt Purchasing Module Might Come To Qt 5.613:59
keshaQt Purchasing is a commercial add-on module developed by The Qt Company14:00
keshawhich implements a cross-platform API for in-app purchases on iOS and14:00
keshaQt Purchasing is a commercial add-on  :O its a comercial plugin mean ??? developers have to buy it ???14:00
Osgood1Oooo - exciting!!14:01
Osgood1Can't wait to see what's in store for Scopes14:01
dobeykesha: why are you asking about qtpurchasing in the scopes session? :)14:03
dobeykesha: qtpurchasing is open sourced with qt 5.6 now. it has been a commercial plug-in in the past though, yes.14:03
davidcalleHi everyone, we'll start in two minutes!14:03
keshaoh thanks for informing14:04
Osgood1davidcalle: 💪14:04
justCarakaswe hear you14:05
davidcalleIf you have any questions, please make sure to prepend them with QUESTION:14:08
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marcustomlinsonFYI: JavaScript Scopes session tomorrow: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22616/javascript-scopes-hands-on/14:20
dobeywho is cooking? :)14:20
aleculet's hope marcus has got his voice back for tomorrow's session!14:23
marcustomlinsonyeah lets hope :P (for everybody's sake)14:23
marcustomlinsonQUESTION: could you give a brief overview of what filters will be available, and how they will add to the overall user experience?14:25
marcustomlinsontrust pawel to give it to you straight :)14:29
marcustomlinsonexcellent answer, thanks!14:29
mvvvvhow the apps you developped this way are platform dependants ? DE dependants ?14:31
alecumvvvv: thanks for your question14:33
davidcalleIf anyone wants to play with the thumbnailer, there is a tutorial for QML apps https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/qml/tutorials/use-ubuntu-thumbnailer/14:33
alecuI'd like to ask the audience to prefix questions for the Hangout with "QUESTION:"14:34
marcustomlinsonmvvvv: could you rephrase your question? sorry, I'm not sure I understand it.14:35
mvvvvok sorry14:35
alecuI'll answer it shortly on the hangout14:35
marcustomlinsonok :) alecu understood14:36
mvvvvreusability outside unity14:37
davidcallemvvvv, gotcha, thanks :)14:37
dobeythey are plug-ins for unity814:37
dobeyother platforms could use the scopes libraries to provide integration via scopes, but unity8 is the only one that works with these scopes apis now14:38
gwakaQUESTION: Is there some plan to provide a fully customizable scope ? A way to aggregate apps, contents, favorites on a scope directly on the phone ?14:38
=== hikiko|ln is now known as hikiko
marcustomlinsonmvvvv: the unity8 front-end and scopes back-end infrastructure are abstracted such that the back-end can be reused at least on other Linux distros14:39
marcustomlinsonmvvvv: it is pure C++14:39
mvvvvok thanks14:39
BrianLinuxingInteresting answer on Unity 8, any thoughts when there might be a stable Unity 8? Approximately?14:42
alecuBrianLinuxing: is that a QUESTION: for the hangout? :-)14:42
dobeyunity8 is stable now14:43
BrianLinuxingQuestion: any time-scale when there might be a stable Unity 8? Approximately?14:43
alecuBrianLinuxing: thanks :-)14:43
dobeywe've been shipping it on retail products for almost a year now :)14:43
marcustomlinsonBrianLinuxing: I assume you mean for desktop?14:43
BrianLinuxingSorry alecu, I am reading rather slowly, as I listen :)14:43
gwakaok thanks for the answer14:44
marcustomlinsongwaka: you question is an excellent one by the way. We did design with this idea in mind. We would love to provide such an experience14:44
gwakathat would be very cool :)14:45
marcustomlinsonso yeah, its on the todo list :)14:45
BrianLinuxingsorry wasn't 100% clear, Question: with Ubuntu phones when is a reasonable timescale for a really stable Unity 8?14:45
dobeyoh, kyle transformed into a different kyle14:46
dobeyBrianLinuxing: what is "really stable" in that respect? it's pretty stable now, but will continue getting bug fixes, and occasionally some new features when necessary for new scopes features and such, or to fix interaction issues that we run into14:47
kyrofadobey, yeah I got up and running with the streamed video :P14:48
marcustomlinsonBrianLinuxing: perhaps this session later would be a good place to ask that: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22633/developing-unity-8/14:49
kyrofaDistributing a .so feels a little dirty though14:50
dobeykyrofa: well, how else would you distribute a go scope?14:51
marcustomlinsonguys, we are really talking about 2 different things though. gwaka asked for an experience where the user creates an aggregator scope on the fly from the UI14:51
BrianLinuxingdobey, good point. I saw a Ubuntu phone the other week for the first time. I was impressed. I liked it. But I got the impression there might be some stability issues, I was curious overall.14:51
dobeyyou could always link statically too14:51
kyrofadobey, I mean the way that aggregator works now you essentially have to commit the .so into version control14:51
kyrofaEspecially if you're talking about hashing the .so14:52
davidcallemarcustomlinson, if it's just filling values into a JSON file, imagining a UI taking care of it is not too far fetched14:52
gwakaYes, the objective is to be able to create the aggregation on the fly,thus not pb of security14:52
dobeykyrofa: i think the bigger problem is that they have to run unconfined14:52
marcustomlinsondavidcalle: correct! But the guys are talking about releasing aggregators to store now. So the topic got a little sidetracked14:52
davidcallemarcustomlinson, right, still interesting :)14:53
dobeybut yes, what gwaka was asking for is what design has been working on14:53
marcustomlinsongwaka: :) I think they did understand, they just got sidetracked14:53
gwakaI saw that :)14:53
gwakabut I had my answer anyway14:53
marcustomlinsonWe can do that keywords thing for sure14:54
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Community Core Apps QA | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22598/community-core-apps-qa/
davidcalleThanks everyone!14:56
balloonshello all14:56
balloonshopefully I won't have crickets for this session14:56
alecuthanks all!14:56
balloonsI'll set it up and we'll roll14:56
ahayzennew jenkins \o/14:56
davidcalleHey balloons, have a nice session :)14:57
balloonsok, video link should be posted15:00
ahayzenQUESTION: Will the CI dashboard ever be fixed again?15:03
ahayzenQUESTION: In music we mock the mediascanner2 database, however sometimes they make changes to their schemas and this breaks our mocking. Is there the possibility we could have jenkins periodically run a 'sanity' test over trunk, if the CI dashboard isn't going to be working ;-)15:04
lolzillahi all15:13
lolzillais the camera app core?15:14
ahayzenballoons, yeah we just wants at least a heads up :-)15:14
ahayzen"oh we need to rebuild our mocked db"15:15
ahayzenyeah that'd be cool :-)15:16
lolzillaQUESTION: witch apps are the core apps? is cammera app core app?15:18
ahayzenQUESTION: For the manual testing results page, some of the comments for the tests say "Didn't want to remove SD card", however I don't know if they clicked fail or skip. Firstly could the comments state what the person clicked and secondly would there be a way of changing a fail to a skip if someone had selected fail when they don't have an SD card etc15:19
ahayzenlolzilla, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps15:19
ahayzenballoons, https://ubuntu-community-testing.staging.ubuntu.com/reports/overview15:19
ahayzenlolzilla, camera is a 'system' app built by Canonical not the community15:19
lolzillaoh thanks balloons, the scroll didn't scroll and i didn't see your message15:20
lolzillasorry balloons15:20
popeyNote: Canonical is part of the Community :)15:20
lolzillai'm on firefox15:20
ahayzenlolzilla, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-apps15:20
lolzillausually i'm using chrome15:20
lolzillachrome > firefox15:20
popeyTo be accurate "camera is a system app which is built by some people (who happen to work for canonical)" :D15:20
lolzillai see, popey15:20
ahayzenpopey, hehe ;-)15:21
DragosQUESTION: is terminal a core app?15:22
balloonsahayzen, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-testing/+bug/150901515:22
ahayzenballoons, ah :-)15:22
DragosQUESTION:why terminal is not in ubuntu touch 13.0415:24
ahayzenQUESTION: Maybe you should explain when and where to use autopilot vs qmltest vs manual tests15:24
lolzillaQUESTION: when will the core apps replace the gnome apps, like gnome termina,  files  etc15:25
ahayzenDragos, from what I understand, its up to the manufacturer which apps they ship, however it is available in the store :-)15:25
ahayzenpopey, ^^ that's correct right?15:25
popeyTouch 13.04 is somewhat retro15:26
DragosQUESTION: why ubuntu store is not in ubuntu touch 13.0415:26
lolzillaQUESTION: what will replace the rest of the gnome apps, like for ex gnome  font viewer? what core app15:26
popeyNobody uses 13.04, that's like a phone with loads of cardboard cutouts for apps.15:26
popeyDragos, what device?15:27
* mzanetti rewinds :D15:28
lolzilla13.04??? that's like 5 years old15:28
lolzillaupgrade to 16.0415:28
lolzillawb Dragos15:30
DragosQUESTION:WHo can quess my age? im 1015:30
ahayzenQUESTION: Autopilot Vis is awesome, are there any plans to have the ability to click on the component in the UI to show its data rather than expanding the massive tree15:32
lolzillaQUESTION: what is your favourite comunity app and why?15:33
DragosQUESTION:how are yo all doing?15:33
gwakaQUESTION: I don't have "man" command on my terminal apps, is it me or is it by default ? if so, why ?15:35
mzanettiahayzen, check out gammaray15:36
DragosQUESTION:what is ur email?15:36
mzanettiahayzen, http://www.kdab.com/gammaray/15:37
ahayzenmzanetti, wow! interesting15:37
ahayzenballoons, look at that ^^15:37
mzanettiahayzen, https://launchpad.net/~gerboland/+archive/ubuntu/unity-mir15:38
mzanettithere's a package...15:38
mzanettialthough not built for wily... but might still work... otherwise you can probably push that package to a ppa of yours to rebuild it for wily15:39
mzanettior kindly ask Gerry to rebuild :)15:39
James_MulhollandGood choice Nicholas15:41
lolzilladekko it is :D15:41
James_MulhollandNot that DanChapman and I are biased ;-)15:41
lolzillagood choice :D15:41
lolzillathanks balloons15:41
DanChapman\o/ Dekko!15:41
ahayzenthanks balloons :-)15:41
James_Mulhollandthanks balloons!15:42
balloonslol, I really really want to run it on my desktop too15:42
balloonsI'm with mhall119 on this. I'm ready to replace Thunderbird15:42
balloonsThe session talking about Pilot is tomorrow: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22588/user-level-testing-for-ubuntu-phone/15:43
balloonsand user testing of the phone in general15:43
balloonsgwaka, I've got to try man now on my device, hah15:45
mzanettiballoons, thanks for the session. and once more, great job on the new jenkins stuff15:46
balloonssilly me didn't even demo it15:46
mzanettiwell, you were talking about it15:46
balloonsyea.. it's easy to blather, but I could have perhaps made it more flashly15:47
balloonsI didn't even think about it15:47
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Dekko (Mail) Planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22595/dekko-mail-planning/
popeyooh, look at the time16:00
popeyfor those that want to join16:00
popeyDanChapman, ^ James_Mulholland16:00
ahayzenQUESTION: Firstly, Dekko is awesome! I'm still amazed at how it can download my emails over IMAP on a 2G connection :-) However, on startup/loading messages there are UI freezes does this occur on your devices, if so are there plans to eradicate this?16:05
ahayzenQUESTION: Sometimes I receive emails (usually on mailing lists) from people who I don't is there an easy way to display the full email address so that I can see the domain? (I expected tapping on the name todo this, as in gmail, but it doesn't)16:06
CheeseBurgQUESTION: Can you try Dekko on 15.10?16:07
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ahayzenQUESTION: Alot of the HTML emails are to wide/small for the device, would it be possible to have pinch to zoom support in the message view ?16:09
CheeseBrgJust learned how to use Xchat16:18
ahayzenCheeseBrg, try HexChat ;-)16:18
ahayzenits XChat but still maintained16:18
CheeseBrgahayzen, is it easier to use?16:19
ahayzenit looks exactly the same, but pre sets up some other security stuff for you16:19
CheeseBurgNow using hexchat16:22
ahayzen\o/ lol16:22
CheeseBurgirc is so complex16:22
ahayzenpopey, battery critical !16:28
ahayzenthat dialog comes up and says "Battery Settings..." or "Ok"16:28
CheeseBurgpopey, When you hit "reply". Hate it when it is after I send it16:31
davmor2popey: I would pop up messages on click on reply/create new mail16:32
ahayzendavmor2, but if i'm on the train i don't wanna be trying to remember the smtp settings16:33
CheeseBurgpopey: Does Dekko automatically set up email accounts like iOS. Basically you give it a gmail and it sets up IMAP/POP and SMTP or whatever16:33
ahayzendavmor2, i would rather that happen while i'm also looking up the POP3 settings16:33
davmor2I agree account is better16:35
CheeseBurgmusic, dekko, browser = the trinity16:38
ahayzenpopey, don't forget the questions ;-) lol16:46
ahayzenCheeseBurg, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/daily16:51
ahayzen(the coreapps ppa)16:52
CheeseBurgthanks guys16:53
ahayzenthanks DanChapman, James_Mulholland, popey :-)16:54
popeyyeah, thanks guys!16:54
ahayzenpopey, do you remember how the other coreapps get built for the PPA? as none of them are building for wily yet?16:55
ahayzenpopey, is it a switch in jenkins?16:55
ahayzenthe current situation is quite poor ;-) https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/daily?field.series_filter=wily16:55
popeyahayzen, no, but I have a meeting with francis on friday and will bring it up there ;)16:55
ahayzencool thanks :-)16:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/appdev/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/04/%23ubuntu-uos-appdev.html
h4ck3ris anybody there!17:29
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Taking advantage of Ubuntu Online Accounts in your application | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22604/taking-advantage-of-ubuntu-online-accounts-in-your-application/
dbarthwe're about to start18:02
dobeyQUESTION: Is it possible for click packages to provide plug-ins which require a new C++ back-end to be implemented?18:38
dobeymardy: untappd and meetup are examples where there are existing plug-ins18:39
dbarthdobey: hey, ok; let's see what mardy says18:43
dobeythe examples were for the comment where he was talking about plug-ins included in ubuntu, and ones that are not. i wasn't asking about them :)18:44
dobeybecause there's no way to tell the online-accounts-ui to load the QML from the click's plug-in path for example18:45
dobeynot necessarily signond plug-ins, but if we need to provide some c++ for the QML to use in the ui18:45
dbarthdobey: want to hop on the hangout maybe ?18:46
dobeyi can i guess if i need to, but only a few minutes left and it's the only question :P18:46
dbarthnw, we're trying to answer and can follow up later of course18:48
dobeyyeah, the reminders app looks ok18:53
DanChapmanthanks guys!18:54
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | In-App-Purchases for Ubuntu | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22641/in-app-purchases-for-ubuntu/
dobeyno hangout?19:01
kyrofaWho's hosting it?19:02
dobeynot it19:02
alecuhere's the hangout link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeHL2UvfsamCzH5TQBlZcJALcwE1GDteY_SqvrDCFj_YDVqDg?hl=en&authuser=019:03
Wellarkstarting in a few minutes. we are having some technical difficultios19:03
kyrofaWhat happened to popeyfan1 and PopeyFan?19:03
popeyfan2they became fans of balloons instead19:04
alecuhere's the youtube link: http://youtu.be/bBj5zkJ7ffs19:04
balloonsyour nick betrays you19:04
alecupopey: do you want to join the hangout?19:08
balloonsalecu, popey is in the other session19:13
alecuballoons: ah, great19:14
popeynp :)19:14
balloonsalecu, I can be here to pepper you with question, lol19:14
alecuballoons: that would be great, thanks!19:17
* balloons just realized he's behind live19:17
balloonsQUESTION: do you have a little demo you can give of how it works?19:19
balloonsQUESTION: Can you give a brief technical overview of what IAP will look like? I need to add something to my app (the purchasing API), and then how much control and stats will I see in the webstore?19:20
balloonsQUESTION: Are there limitations for how much I can charge (or a minimum I need to charge)?19:22
balloonsQUESTION: Will I be able to have multiple IAPs, all at different prices?19:23
kyrofaballoons, right now yeah. Minimum is $2.99 (if I remember correctly. He just said during the slides)19:23
dobeyballoons: that was answered already in the video (there is a minimum currently, same as minimum for app purchases)19:23
balloonsack, I assumed as much, I missed a couple mins during the slides19:23
balloonsseems my last question is answered now as well, given his API demo. I should be able to define many IAP's. I'm mostly curious about how this works on the store side19:24
dobeyyes, you can have lots of items defined in the store.19:25
balloonsand it sounds like that answers my store question as well.19:26
kyrofahangouts almost had a heart attack there19:28
dobeyany more questions?19:30
balloonsthanks for the session guys!19:31
alecuballoons: thanks to you for all the questions :-)19:32
kyrofaThanks guys!19:34
Wellarkalecu: did you remember to stop the live feed? :)19:34
alecuWellark: I think I didn't :P19:35
Wellarkalecu: ok. it stopped now19:35
alecuWellark: I had to rejoin the hangout and manually stop it!19:36
Wellark"well, we did make it 60 minutes.."19:36
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/appdev/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/04/%23ubuntu-uos-appdev.html
aquariusalecu, are you still around? I missed the IAP session but I'm watching it now, and I have questions :)20:08
alecuaquarius: hi sil! sure, I'm around20:09
aquariusalecu, heya, pal :)20:10
aquariusalecu, question about one-time IAPs. How can I verify that a purchase was made? Do you give me some sort of signed token that I can save and verify later?20:10
aquariusalecu, that is: I don't want to just call IAP.purchaseAThing(theThing) and have it return "true" and then I save "theThing: purchased" in my local database, because someone could just open the Terminal and then edit that database20:11
aquariusalecu, but equally I don't want to request https://iap.canonical.com/didIPurchase?thing=aThing&user=userid because then I can only check if I'm online :)20:11
alecuaquarius: good point20:12
alecuaquarius: I don't think we are handling the offline case just now20:12
alecuaquarius: let me find the people working on that20:13
alecuWellark: are you still around? ^20:13
aquariusah. So I call some sort of haveTheyPurchasedThisThing() API and it calls the server, I assume :)20:13
alecuaquarius: right: http://doc.qt.io/QtPurchasing/qtpurchasing-gettingstarted-qml.html#restoring-previously-purchased-products20:14
aquariusah, this isn't *quite* about restoring purchases if I uninstalled the app. This is about unlockable features.20:15
aquariusSay my file transfer app only allows you to transfer 10MB of files at once, but you can pay £1.99 to unlock "unlimited transfers".20:16
aquariusHow can the app know, without contacting the canonical servers (because it might not be connected to the internet) whether that has been purchased?20:16
aquariusif I drop my phone in the bath and then buy another phone then definitely I'd want to restore the purchase, but that's a one-time thing, and might ask for my password; I can't do that every time the app starts up20:17
alecuaquarius: that's a good point. And I can understand that it's not solved by storing a flag in a db of the app, because it would be trivial to defeat.20:18
alecuaquarius: we've not implemented any of that yet. We are closely following QtPurchasing, which provides an abstraction on top of our store, and that will allow you to port your QML app to the android and ios stores.20:19
aquariusif I ship a good app with IAPs, the first comment on every website about it will be "open the Terminal; type 'echo yes > ~/.local/share/goodapp.sil/unlocked', and now you've got it for free" :)20:19
alecuaquarius: but I'm going to take your problem and talk with the QtPurchasing devels upstream20:19
alecuaquarius: do you know if any of the other app stores solves this thing?20:20
aquariusalecu, yeah. Other app stores solve it by not giving you root on the phone, so you can't edit the phone's data files. :)20:20
aquariusNote that the use case I talk about is only one use case for IAP; other use cases don't have the same problem. (For example, if I buy 100 coins in a MMORPG, then my coin total is held on the server; the server does not trust the client about this.)20:21
alecuaquarius: yes, I know this only applies to apps that have extra content inside the app20:22
alecuaquarius: like a game with extra levels20:22
alecuit does not apply to apps that talk to a server.20:22
aquariusand in the limit case even if you *do* give me a signed token, I can't stop someone actually becoming root and editing the app QML to change "if (purchased)" to "if (true)" :-)20:22
aquariusso maybe I just have to live with it -- verify online; if not online, check my own database20:24
aquariusanyone who really cares about this sort of thing (Candy Crush, Clash of Clans, whatever) is going to have a server with accounts and track purchases there anyway20:25
aquariusalecu, next question: why not invent Ubuntu Coins which cost £1.99 for 200, and then let people buy things with Ubuntu Coins? Then the minimum purchase problem goes away.20:27
alecuaquarius: I'm asking the server guys for that, that would be a great feature20:35
aquariusalecu, perhaps I missed it in the video, but is there a demo of what the purchasing UI looks like? (And whether I can customise it?)20:39
alecuaquarius: we've not shown a demo just yet. I guess we should share a video of how it's looking so far21:00
aquariusthat'd be cool :)21:00
aquariusok, thank you, pal! Looking forward to seeing IAPs arrive.21:01
alecuaquarius: the actual purchase flow will be the same as when purchasing an app from the store.21:01
alecuaquarius: thanks a lot for your questions. As always, you are keeping us on our toes!21:01
alecuaquarius: mind if I add you to the IAP pilot team?21:03
aquariusalecu, I think I already am added :)21:05
aquariusI'm trying to decide what to do with it.21:05
alecuaquarius: we agree that usd 2.99 is too high for many app purchases. So, one thing we are suggesting this is for people that have two versions of the app in the store, a free one and a paid one with the same features, but that's intended for users that want to "contribute" a donation for the devel21:12
alecuso the devel could release just one app with IAP instead21:13
aquariusthat's what I'm thinking of doing with WifiTransfer21:23

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