[13:59] <dpm> hey all
[13:59] <dpm> welcome to the last day of the summit :)
[14:00] <dpm> starting the first session in 1-2 minutes
[14:08] <dpm> jose, did you want to discuss google code-in in the roundtable?
[14:09] <jose> dpm: yes, i'm joining in a few
[14:10] <dpm> jose, ok, let me know when you're all set. Right now everyone else is in other sessions, so I'll start as soon as someone joins the hangout
[14:11] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-community-roundtable
[14:12] <dpm> for those who want to join in: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdNu19LKKt7EBEMrNrrSX3aV3LGmLYVsdsoMckdZFzznrgCjQ
[14:58] <balloons> Howdy
[14:58] <elopio> hello.
[15:04]  * alesage wishes he had a lower-third card
[15:04] <balloons> hello, we're starting in a moment
[15:09] <ahayzen> o/
[15:10] <dobey> all i see is a black rectangle :-/
[15:10] <balloons> dobey, eh?
[15:11] <balloons> you don't see his presentation?
[15:11] <dobey> no, on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22588/user-level-testing-for-ubuntu-phone/ i see only a solid black rectangle
[15:11] <balloons> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFxAw7O85Gk
[15:11] <ahayzen> i see it
[15:11] <balloons> refresh the page perhaps
[15:12] <dobey> https://www.youtube.com/lFxAw7O85Gk says 404
[15:12] <dobey> i've refreshed it like 20 times
[15:13] <ahayzen> both work for me :-/
[15:13] <alesage> dobey success?
[15:14] <dobey> hmm, had to restart firefox and now youtube is showing the video :-/
[15:14] <alesage> dobey success!
[15:14] <dobey> the web sure ain't what it used to be
[15:16] <balloons> The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be,
[15:16]  * alesage doesn't take that personally
[15:20] <balloons> ask away if you have questions
[15:27] <ahayzen> we all know about mocking mediascanner2, right balloons? :') lol
[15:27] <balloons> :p
[15:35] <ahayzen> brendand, haha that for us in the music-app trying to mock the database
[15:38] <ahayzen> balloons, is there a list of TODO's of just look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-tests ?
[15:38] <balloons> ahayzen, I'm sort of asking the same thing. I think it could be fun to tackle one of the new areas
[15:38] <dobey> things that provide dbus interfaces, should be providing dbusmock templates that can be used to test things
[15:38] <ahayzen> balloons, yeah if there was a list, like we have with the needs-autopilot-test, then it would be easier for people like me to find and attempt to contribute
[15:43] <balloons> ahayzen, wait for it :p
[15:43] <balloons> perhaps dobey is volunteering as well
[15:43]  * ahayzen waits patiently 
[15:43] <dobey> no
[15:43] <dobey> i volunteer for nothing
[15:43] <alesage> dobey, maybe?
[15:43] <ahayzen> hehe inbetween everything else :-)
[15:44] <ahayzen> yeah we are missing a few :-) along with weather
[15:45] <dobey> hard enough making the stuff i have to maintain, work :)
[15:45] <ahayzen> hah :-)
[15:49] <alesage> brendand, update the etherpad ;)
[15:49] <ahayzen> thanks guys :-)
[15:49] <elopio> thanks!
[15:50] <dobey> at least someone is using an ubuntu phone :)
[15:50] <balloons> bah, brendand, we didn't assign anything to elopio!
[15:50]  * elopio runs
[15:50] <balloons> I've gone all UOS now without doing it
[15:50] <balloons> I suppose I'll exclude him, since he did a session
[15:50] <brendand> balloons, elopio was hiding, shame on him
[15:50] <balloons> so did dobey actually.. So I guess the debts are paid
[15:52] <jibel> great stuff! thanks brendand, balloons and all.
[15:52]  * balloons has some 'volunteers' in mind to try writing some of these tests
[15:57] <balloons> this is a good session to be in the hangout for :-)
[15:57] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdVv1skwyyfr7QPHAg3Y7g_1Fu59XAPbHFZDRnpcXD0ycJUzg?hl=en&authuser=1
[16:05] <dpm> setting the session up, we'll be online in a minute
[16:06] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-future-plans-for-uos
[16:07] <ahayzen> \o/
[16:10] <popey2> wheee
[16:10] <willcooke> dodgy
[16:10] <popey2> wat
[16:11] <willcooke> imposter
[16:12] <popey2> I know things
[16:12] <popey2> Test me.
[16:12] <ahayzen> QUESTION: The new UOS sessions work really well for short term planning, how would you feel about face-2-face (aka old style UDS) for LTS/long term planning? If that session was combined at a UbuCon or something this could work quite well, even if it was limited to one area such as just AppDevs.
[16:17] <willcooke> mhall119, +1
[16:17] <balloons> the popey clones are out again!
[16:17] <ahayzen> haha
[16:17]  * ahayzen waits for evilpopey
[16:18] <mhall119> just realized that popey's current pose is almost identical to his profile picture pose
[16:18] <balloons> ahayzen, so to clarify, you think ubucons could fill the gap for long-term lts to lts planning, while ubuntuonair stuff can fit the gap for short-term stuff
[16:18] <balloons> mhall119, it's a cardboard cutout
[16:18] <popey2> Lies
[16:19] <ahayzen> balloons, yeah use face-2-face at Ubu{Con,Summit} for planning long term, general direction... and then UOS/UbuntuOnAir for short term/gap stuff
[16:19] <balloons> ahayzen, I'm in agreemnt
[16:22] <ahayzen> QUESTION: Do the design clinics still exist?
[16:22] <ahayzen> and how successful were they?
[16:22] <aquarius> also, popey, there's nothing stopping people putting together a "show and tell day", perhaps. Present it like a conference: it's a day when a bunch of people show things off. It doesn't have to be colocated/cotimed with discussion sessions about the future coding of unity 8 or whatever?
[16:23] <balloons> aquarius, I agree. We can still have game developer day with 3 back to back sessions if we wish
[16:23] <ahayzen> even if it was something small to show and tell, eg "hey this is what convergence looks like now", could this not be tagged onto the start/end of the ubuntuonair weekly sessions ?
[16:23] <aquarius> I take the point about how ten videos all in one day means that each gets less attention because it's overwhelming, though
[16:23] <balloons> there's a very real information overload during UOS imho
[16:24] <aquarius> but equally it's easier to notice that there *is* stuff to look at if there's a bit of a marketing push around Cool Ubuntu Stuff Day, rather than a video just appearing on some random Tuesday
[16:25] <ahayzen> definitely the information overload is a problem, and the biggest problem with UOS (as was probably the same with UDS) is that i currently want to be in 4 rooms :-/
[16:25] <aquarius> it was the same at UDS :)
[16:25] <dpm> lol
[16:26] <ahayzen> :-)
[16:26] <balloons> yes.. for instance this hour has 3 sessions I'd like to be in
[16:26] <aquarius> it's not *wholly* nonsense. ;-)
[16:27] <mhall119> that's high praise from aquarius
[16:28] <aquarius> It feels like there are a few different "goals": 1. show and tell, demoing new stuff that's happening with Ubuntu; 2. get together to plan out the next six months of work, get work items, etc; 3. expose actual engineers and decision makers to the audience so questions can be asked and answered. And UOS is being all three of those... but they're all quite separate, I think
[16:29] <aquarius> nhaines, honestly, I disagree with the "planning happens in the open" thing. It doesn't; it hasn't for years, not really.
[16:29] <balloons> aquarius, I see it as 2 things. 1) Show off stuff 2) Plan and communicate. UOS attempts to do both, but imho, we should be doing both those things all the time
[16:30] <aquarius> (I'm not complaining about that. But pretending that decisions are made in the open and the community can have influence over those decisions is sophistry, I think.)
[16:30] <balloons> I suppose the third of taking question sis valid
[16:30] <aquarius> Ah. popey said it better than I could :)
[16:30] <popey> ta
[16:30] <popey> wish my stupid connection stayed up so i can hear replies!
[16:30] <aquarius> I agree with how you put it entirely
[16:34] <ahayzen> ... we need an UbuntuTV Channel ...
[16:34] <aquarius> mhall119, I admire your desire for openness, but there's a chilling effect there. It means you can't discuss in the community team hangout "hey, when are we revealing the new partnership with BigPhoneCo"?
[16:35] <aquarius> ha! again popey says what I was thinking. I'll stop talking :-)
[16:35] <ahayzen> haha
[16:35] <balloons> while he stays connected
[16:35] <mhall119> aquarius: true, but I'm actually okay with making private discussions a little more painful for us, because then we'll avoid it whenever possible
[16:36] <aquarius> we seem to have moved away from the future of UOS here a bit? "Canonical team meetings should be on youtube" is a laudable goal, but that's not really the point here, is it?
[16:36] <willcooke> Something I'm going to try with U7 work in 16.04 is to have our sprint review meetings as HOA.  So every n weeks there will be a short HOA showing what bugs were fixed and showing a demo of them.  Other agile teams might be able to do the same
[16:36] <willcooke> We're doing them in HO's anyway, so why not make it more public
[16:36] <aquarius> fair enough
[16:36] <mhall119> ^^ this
[16:37] <aquarius> that's not a bad idea
[16:37] <aquarius> be itneresting to see who watches
[16:37] <willcooke> right, but it kinda doesn't matter.  It's zero additional cost for us
[16:37] <aquarius> I think the community team and the desktop team can be more public than, say, those dealing with OEMs or new designs for bits of Unity or wahtever
[16:37] <willcooke> that's true
[16:38] <aquarius> and it's the latter one that's interesting
[16:38] <willcooke> mhall119, not once a week, maybe once a month
[16:38] <aquarius> I think everyone would accept that commercial partner discussions are not going to be public
[16:38] <mhall119> willcooke: still better than every 6 months :)
[16:38] <willcooke> :)
[16:38] <willcooke> \o/
[16:38] <popey> :)
[16:39] <popey>  /nick devils_advocate
[16:39] <aquarius> but "what's coming up in new unity designs" is kept secret and that's what makes people sad, perhaps? (Whereas "what's coming up in new Gnome" is already public.)
[16:39] <gQuigs> status updates would be very useful to help people contribute better
[16:39] <mhall119> aquarius: right, and I'm realistic in that we won't fix that just by telling people to post all designs in public as soon as they're made
[16:40] <mhall119> but when a new SDK component is being implemented based on already approved designs, that can be discussed publicly
[16:41] <ahayzen> mhall119, ... the AdaptivePageLayout was announced very early via a blog post remember ...
[16:41] <mhall119> ahayzen: right, and people are still surprised to learn about it at UOS sessions this week
[16:41] <ahayzen> yup, and there are still bugs and WIP items for the component itself
[16:43] <ahayzen> presentations or Q&As seems to be what it has been
[16:45] <aquarius> I wonder if one answer is just... a youtube playlist of "cool things in Ubuntu". That gets new presentations and demos added to it, and then people can follow it?
[16:46] <mhall119> aquarius: you mean http://youtube.com/ubuntuonair :)
[16:47] <aquarius> yeah, maybe, although that has a bunch of meetings and so on too
[16:58] <balloons_clone> boop
[17:04] <dpm> thanks everyone on IRC!
[17:08] <dpm> nhaines, are you planning  to be around for the meetup.com session?
[17:08] <nhaines> dpm: yup!  And in fact I just got my lower third working in Chrome, not Firefox, so that'll be all set too.
[17:08] <nhaines> Just in time for uos-1605!  :P
[17:09] <dpm> nice one, just don't mention the word "browsers" to mhall119 :-)
[17:09] <nhaines> haha
[17:52] <dpm> Ok, ready for the next session :)
[17:52] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-meetupcom-for-loco-teams
[17:53] <dpm> For anyone wanting to join live in the discussion: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdDuJqodsduC8VRHJv8QvudATSJgwmkBDxYo9mtIL4x8tN3vQ
[17:57] <wxl> waiting :)
[18:04] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/MeetupProposal
[18:04] <mhall119> I'm listening, but helping with another session atm
[18:07] <mhall119> http://www.meetup.com/pro/ubuntu/
[18:07] <mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/
[18:07] <mhall119> dpm: we lost you
[18:11] <wxl> omg finally got my bluetooth headset to work argh
[18:11] <wxl> what did i miss?
[18:11] <sergiusens> QUESTION now that I see meetup.com support I am interested in starting a LoCo for my province, how do I get started?
[18:12] <wxl> sergiusens: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
[18:12] <sergiusens> wxl, do I get meetup.com support ootb there?
[18:12] <wxl> sergiusens: feel free to contact loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com if you have further questions
[18:12] <wxl> sergiusens: this whole discussion is about making it standard fare, but at present it is not integrated
[18:13] <mhall119> sergiusens: no, you need to be an established team to get a free meetup group
[18:13] <wxl> sergiusens: as a member of the loco council, my goal would be to make sure that everyone has access to the same tools
[18:13] <wxl> mhall119: only for verified teams, correct?
[18:13] <mhall119> wxl: I think that's the plan, at least to start with
[18:13] <sergiusens> sounds good
[18:14] <wxl> sergiusens: so what he's saying is that you'd need to do the things to get your loco established and verified before you'd have access to meetup, just as that's what allows you to access community donations funds
[18:14] <sergiusens> but I'd only get people to come to any event if I start something on meetup.com so if I start one, can it later migrate to a LoCo supported meetup group?
[18:14] <sergiusens> if I become a verified group?
[18:14] <mhall119> sergiusens: I believe it can, yes
[18:15] <wxl> sergiusens: i'm not sure that meetup necessarily allows for that, but you can ask your membership to move over at the very least
[18:15] <mhall119> we haven't been able to test that theory yet though
[18:16] <wxl> long story short, there's work that needs to be done before you can access the meetup option, sergiusens, so i'd get started on it :) where are you from?
[18:17] <sergiusens> wxl, Argentina; I had intentions of reviving the argentinian one but got no reply, I also wanted to start a Cordoba specific LoCo
[18:18] <wxl> sergiusens: have you tried to contact the loco-council? we can help you revive the argentenian one. usually we don't have smaller divisions than countries, at least outside the us.
[18:19] <sergiusens> wxl, sure, I'll give it one more try
[18:20] <wxl> sergiusens: i would suggest you write loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com and explain the situation. we will attempt to contact the current contacts. if we get no response, we will work towards establishing you as the main contact.
[18:21] <wxl> QUESTION: is *Canonical* paying for the meetup.com fees or is that coming out of the community donations? dpm just said Canonical, fwiw.
[18:21] <dpm> wxl, Canonical
[18:22] <wxl> QUESTION: will Canonical IT be responsible for administation or will this be a responsibility of the LoCo Council, as, for example, the LoCo Portal more or less is?
[18:23] <mhall119> wxl: there's nothing to administer from an IS perspective
[18:23] <sergiusens> wxl, ack
[18:23] <wxl> mhall119: what about creating the new accounts and giving credentials to locos?
[18:24] <mhall119> wxl: that would be the LC and the us on the community team
[18:24] <wxl> ok great
[18:24] <wxl> so we need instructions :)
[18:24] <wxl> mhall119: don't forget with cities there'
[18:24] <wxl> s also the issue of whole countries…
[18:24] <wxl> india comes to mind immediately.
[18:25] <mhall119> wxl: right, that's something we need to try out before we know if it works or not
[18:25]  * wxl nods
[18:32] <wxl> nhaines: Ubuntu Cascadia Team! XD
[18:34] <nhaines> wxl: All glory to Cascadia!  \o/-
[18:35] <wxl> XD
[18:37] <wxl> dpm: argentina is not verified http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ar/
[18:37] <mhall119> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute to contribute to the fund
[18:40] <sergiusens> I'll talk to beuno about having some admin capabilities as he now lives in Uruguay :-)
[18:40] <sergiusens> but I see I can register events there myself
[18:41] <wxl> mhall119: you can count oregon in!
[18:41] <wxl> (i.e. i'd be happy to be the guinea pig for the process)
[18:41] <sergiusens> wxl, how did you check that? Do verified teams have a 'verified' badge? Would be nice to have an 'unverified' badge for the ones that aren't
[18:42] <wxl> sergiusens: they show up with a colored ubuntu logo on the loco portal. the unverified ones are grey. you can also check the membership of the verified teams group on launchpad https://launchpad.net/~locoteams-verified/+members
[18:42] <mhall119> sergiusens: you get a colored icon on loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[18:43] <wxl> +1 dpm ! the meetup could be the impetus to becoming verified
[18:43] <dpm> yeah
[18:43] <wxl> it's hard work herding cats
[18:43] <sergiusens> I think I'd get more traction with meetup than with locos as it is easier to spread the word
[18:44] <sergiusens> I don't mind managing my own meetup group if there is a way to integrate
[18:44] <sergiusens> with the loco portal
[18:46] <wxl> sergiusens: whatever you do, please report to the loco-council about how things go trying to contact beuno and we'll work towards getting you a meetup group somehow or another.
[18:46] <wxl> or at least we'll look into it
[18:54] <wxl> thanks all
[18:55] <nhaines> We were totally done on time there.
[18:56] <wxl> rare :)
[18:56] <dpm> thanks everyone!