=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/05/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html
=== hikiko-lpt is now known as hikiko
=== jzheng is now known as jzheng_afk
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Your feedback counts: the Snappy onboarding experience | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22593/core-1511-snappy-onboarding-feedback/
dholbachdoes anyone of you want to join the hangout?13:59
dholbach(starting in a minute or two)14:00
dholbachok... if you want to join the conversation later on, let me know14:00
dholbachwhich experience have you had with snappy so far and what have you done with it?14:05
dholbachit'd be great if you could join the hangout, so we could hear more about your thoughts14:06
ThibautrI have tried Snappy on Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone, VM, mainly trying initially to play with it and installing apps.14:07
sergiusensdholbach, how do I join? or should I join?14:07
kyrofaMy biggest issue with the on-boarding process was that the documentation online was terribly out-of-date and I was pointed to the src to read ITS docs since they're more up-to-date14:08
Thibautrthis is the link to the hangout14:08
ogra_yeah, sadly snappy is still moving very fast with things changing at times14:08
ogra_and docs only being updated subsequently14:08
kyrofaogra_, and that's understandable, but it would be great to change the docs at the same pace14:09
kyrofaMaybe it should be more automated14:09
ogra_there are attempst to do that by maintaining the docs inside the code14:09
dholbach^if you want to join14:09
ogra_and by automatically aggregating them14:09
kyrofaAh, that would be great :)14:09
ogra_it already happens for some documentation14:10
dholbachkyrofa, which docs were out-of-date?14:10
elopiowhat we are missing is an integration test for docs. If the test fails, the docs and the test need to be updated.14:10
dholbachtaking notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-core-1511-snappy-onboarding-feedback14:11
ali1234i'm an ubuntu user but frankly snappy is so different and weird that it doesn't help at all14:11
dholbachali1234, what is confusing or bewildering?14:11
kyrofaIs that... sergiusens??14:11
elopioali1234: tell us more about your use case.14:11
ogra_ali1234, depends what you want to do :)14:12
kyrofaHe's alive!14:12
ogra_kyrofa, he pretends to14:12
ogra_(in reality he is lying in bed and only driving that puppet on a stick that you see in the HO14:12
sergiusenskyrofa, yes14:13
ali1234elopio: i don't have a use case, i don't even know enough about snappy to know if it would be useful to me or not14:13
sergiusensno, I am better :-)14:13
sergiusenskyrofa, from tuesday, s/sick/ill/14:13
elopioali1234: try installing the lxd snap, and deploy a ubuntu wily container.14:13
ogra_ali1234, did you take a look at snapcraft already ? (the "apt-get for github" as someone called it recently)14:14
ali1234ogra_: i googled it about half an hour ago, all i found was stuff about minecraft14:14
ogra_i guess we need to do better with google scoring14:15
kyrofaali1234, I always suggest prepending your search with "ubuntu"14:16
ThibautrWho's got a Raspberry Pi?14:16
ali1234i do14:16
jrwrenI do14:16
sergiusensThibautr, i don't see your lower third :-)14:16
ogra_ali1234, there are definitely a bunch of tutorials on youtube how to use it14:16
elopioThibautr: I like that. I want my rpi to be my kodi box.14:16
jrwrenelopio: openelec makes that very easy and awesome.14:17
alecuI own several raspis, but only one is model 214:17
* ogra_ wants his rpi to steer his heating and solar power system14:17
ThibautrWhat would you like to use your Raspberry Pi for?14:18
elopioI like my bbb better, but I want to use it to hack.14:18
ali1234i use mine as a jtag debugger and i2c sniffer14:18
alecuelopio: the advantage of the raspi over other boards is availability14:19
jrwrengarage door open detector/alarm14:19
alecuelopio: it's much easier to get your hands on a raspi14:19
ThibautrWho's using their Rpi2 on a daily basis?14:19
elopioand I would like to replace the openwrt on my router with ubuntu.14:20
willcookeThibautr, I have a use case we could use14:20
jrwrenrpi2 - yes, daily - openelec/kodi14:20
elopiono, not daily yet.14:20
jrwrengarage door open detector - unsure about power requirements and which sensors would be best. Little time.14:20
elopiojrwren: how easy is to update your openelec?14:21
alecuQUESTION: I'd love to use my raspi2 with snappy for my electromechanical games, but I need sound support. Are audio drivers supported already? Is that already using pulse or plain alsa?14:26
loolwililupy: snap services run as root any way14:27
loolerr sorry willcooke14:27
ogra_willcooke, on snappy you always run everything as root ...14:27
loolwillcooke: but you'll need to give access to /sys files to your snap14:27
ogra_i mean your snap does14:27
loolrick and jamie wrote stuff on this14:27
loologra_: (commands run as the user who runs them though)14:27
ogra_oh, right, but services dont14:28
ogra_i can definitely include needed bits indeed14:28
ogra_if there is anythin to include14:28
willcookeThibautr, https://github.com/8none1/thermostat14:29
willcookeNO LAUGHING!14:29
* tedg can't stop laughing14:29
ogra_giggling allowwed ?14:29
tedgWhy are their sunny icons? I thought you were in England?14:30
ali1234QUESTION: how will development look when the tools themselves are packaged in snaps?14:31
elopioall code and no pep8 makes /me a dull boy :)14:31
jrwrenelopio: very easy. copy files into place and restart and the system updates itself.14:31
ogra_ali1234, you will have a "classic" mode on snappy14:32
ogra_ali1234, meanin you can install a developer snap that gets you a deb based container14:32
ali1234i wanted to use snappy on my robot but it is built around the pi A+ so that was a none starter14:32
wililupyI had an issue with snapcraft .3 where I built a snap and it would fail saying it couldn't find /dev/null, but it seems to be fixed in .4 I successfully built my snap last night.14:32
ogra_in which you then can use snapcraft14:32
sergiusenskyrofa, want to share anything ros and ubuntu core?14:32
ali1234ogra_: so basically if i'm a developer i will not ever use snap packages myself?14:33
ogra_you will use them as the end result14:33
ogra_to run and test them14:33
ali1234what if i only write development tools?14:33
ogra_you might be able to roll your own classic mode for this and provide it in the store,14:34
kyrofasergiusens, I have no snappy+ROS experience to share, I'm afraid. I'd love to but I don't have any robotic hardware around here :(14:34
ali1234say i write a tool like cmake14:34
sergiusenswililupy, good to know, feel free to log any bugs or send email to snappy-app-devel@ or #snappy with any issues; blockers for adoption we look at solving quicker than others14:34
ali1234do i have to bundle gcc and every other compiler ever into the biggest snap ever in order to make it work?14:34
ogra_ali1234, then you will provide a snapcraft plugin for it and perhaps your own classic mode snap that includes it by default (or get it included into the existing one)14:34
ogra_ali1234, for development you will likely simply not use snappy itself, it is rather a delivery thing, your development happens outside of the deployment (in a classic container, on a desktop etc)14:35
ali1234ogra_: i thought the plan was to convert the desktop to snaps?14:36
ogra_it is14:36
ogra_and there you will also use a classic container to develop ;)14:36
ali1234ogra_: i saw the session yesterday about legacy apps14:37
ogra_yeah, classic mode is a bit more than that14:37
ali1234libertine i think it's called?14:37
ogra_libertine adds confinement to not confined apps14:37
ogra_by wrapping a chroot or container14:37
ogra_classic gives youa complete dev env in a container14:38
ali1234so if i have to always work inside a classic container to do anything, why should i care about snappy?14:38
ogra_that enables you to have it spit out a snap you can immediately install on your desktop14:38
ogra_because snappy is your base system14:38
ali1234but i cant do anything with it without a classic container14:39
ogra_if you want to install your produced binary you will have to generate a snap14:39
ali1234so i might as well just install my software inside the container and use it that way14:39
ogra_you can indeed :)14:39
ali1234it seems like most of the software i write would not work in a snap14:40
wililupyQUESTION: How do I get my snap to show the correct version instead of random letters? Does it not get this from the version: flag in the snapcraft.yaml?14:40
ogra_but if you want to deliver it to others whats easier ? telling them "select this snap from the snap store on your PC" or "read and follow this howto to set up a container and install these 25 debs inside"14:40
dholbachwililupy, that's if you use a side-loaded version14:40
Chipacawililupy: not when sideloading14:40
dholbachif it comes from the store, it gets a proper version number14:40
Chipacadholbach: for now :)14:41
Chipacawililupy: the "for now" is because, what do you need the "proper" version number for?14:41
Chipacawililupy: often it's to hardcode the version in a path somewhere14:41
Chipacawililupy: and you shouldn't do that14:41
wililupyIt was for a demo, I just wanted to clean it up.14:41
ogra_ali1234, right, if you only work on core build tools or some such you are definitely better off with debs ... but perhaps in contexxxt of a classic mode that already contains yoyur tools (and your preferred IDE and all libs your tools consume etc)14:41
ogra_so you might want a snap to make it easier for other devs to make use of your tool14:42
ogra_ali1234, and you want snappy for your OS because a release to release upgrade will take 2min vs 2h, it will automatically roll back in case somethin went wrong etc etc14:43
Chipacawililupy: to support rapid dev iterations where you change something, rebuild, install, repeatedly on the device _without having to bump the version every time_, the version when sideloaded is ~random14:44
Chipacait's actually a timestamp, but same thing14:44
wililupyThank you all for the information.14:47
dholbachmvo_, sergiusens, Chipaca: do you have an answer for alecu and his audio framework? :)14:48
Chipacai missed the question14:49
alecu QUESTION: I'd love to use my raspi2 with snappy for my electromechanical games, but I need sound support. Are audio drivers supported already? Is that already using pulse or plain alsa?14:49
dholbachor ogra^14:49
Chipacaalecu: just plain alsa should work14:49
Chipacaalecu: as long as it's a single snap wanting to use sound14:49
Chipacaalecu: and you do the hw-assign dance, i imagine (try it and tell us :)14:50
alecuChipaca: yes, that sounds perfect14:50
ali1234ogra_: my concern is that i'll end up with a huge amount of stuff installed manually in classic mode, and upgrading the base OS won't magically upgrade all that stuff14:50
alecuChipaca: I will14:50
ogra_ali1234, well, then snappy is probably only interesting for users of your stuff14:51
ogra_and not for yourself14:51
ali1234ogra_: i am the only user for 99% of the software i write14:51
ogra_so the more interesting thng for you might to provide a snapcraft plugin for users that acually want to use your tools and youself stay with deb14:52
ogra_(if you actually want users :) )14:52
dholbachnice one14:54
dholbachthanks everyone14:54
elopiothank you!14:55
ogra_thanks !14:55
* ali1234 goes to #snappy14:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Snappy Developer Community Resources | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22592/core-1511-snappy-developer-community-resources/
dholbachall right... does anyone want to join the hangout?15:00
dholbachthis session is about snappy (online) resources15:00
ThibautrWho uses primarily Stack Overflow when trying to solve a problem?15:05
ali1234it depends on the problem15:05
ali1234if it is very very technical and ubuntu-specific i have not had much luck with AU15:06
ali1234actually that gos for pretty much anything very technical15:06
ThibautrSo do you switch to Google?15:06
ThibautrI mean googling your problem?15:06
ali1234no, i start with google15:06
ThibautrOK :D15:06
ali1234if that fails i will either ask on SO if it's something ... i dunno how to say it but kind of "mid level"15:07
ali1234if it's extremely technical i look at the source and then go and ask the person on irc15:07
ali1234often google leads me to an existing answer on SO!15:08
ali1234that's why i start there15:08
tedgReally SO is an excellent SEO job :-)15:09
ali1234i don't care where the answer is as long as google can find it :)15:09
ali1234the only thing i don't really like is mailing lists because the archives are hard to read and failing that you have to subscribe etc15:09
sergiusenscan someone write a telegram plugin so I get pinged about askubuntu questions tagged snapcraft?15:09
tedgThat would be cool15:10
sergiusensQUESTION ^15:10
tedgHmm, searching Google for anything about stack overflow doesn't get what you watn.15:10
ali1234sergiusens: i could probably hack that together15:11
sergiusensali1234, that would be nice :-)15:12
sergiusensaskubuntu only has one snapcraft question15:12
sergiusensfrom dpm15:12
tedgOh, we'll need it to filter out questions from dpm ;-)15:13
ThibautrSO to RSS , RSS to telegram?15:13
sergiusensThibautr, there's already an irc bot that spits questions from askubuntu for ubunut-touch15:14
sergiusensI just want to transform that to telegram ;-)15:14
ThibautrSO to RSS , RSS to IRC, IRC to Telegram :D15:14
ali1234there's bots for telegram apparently15:14
sergiusensali1234, yup, we have one for lp bug reports already15:14
ali1234so all the code exists, just a matter of merging it together... that's pretty much my specialty15:15
sergiusensif we need a list, what better that SO ?15:18
sergiusenskeep it dynamic15:18
dholbachdo you have a feel for what might be more popular or a better venue? SO or AU?15:19
sergiusensI was conflating SO as the same thing15:20
ali1234that's a really difficult one. i feel like on one hand AU makes more logical sense, but AU has always seemed to be end-user focused15:20
tedgGonna have to figure out how to log into AU again...15:20
ali1234tedg: i use launchpad openid15:21
tedgali1234: I used my own, then they dropped V1 and I haven't upgraded.15:21
ThibautrLooks like you can only do SO to email15:22
sergiusensah, I don't at least15:24
Thibautryou can't do it?15:25
ogra_Thibautr, i definitely dont want to get all 750 IRC pings i get per day piped to telegram on my phone :P15:25
Thibautremail it can be15:25
tedgFor workshops generally, I think that virt-manager is better.15:27
tedgEveryone can use that and get it running, they don't need specific hardware.15:28
tedgBesides the docker snap failing, I think I had a good one put together :-)15:28
ThibautrI would do a workshop for non Ubuntu users too :D15:32
tedgWait, who are these people you speak of?15:32
ali1234QUESTION: any plans for webinar style demos? like the ubuntu learning week? haven't seen one of those for a while15:32
tedgWe do snappy clinics15:33
ogra_Thibautr, then you likely want virtualbox15:33
tedgali1234: They're on the ubuntu-on-air schedule15:33
ogra_ali1234, yes, they happen recular15:33
tedgali1234: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-qBHd6_LXWYm8qttcXaosAIzejTa5IPj15:33
ali1234those seem more question-and-answer?15:34
tedgdholbach: Can we get the ROS UOS session in that playlist?15:34
tedgOh, I was just joking about non-Ubuntu users.15:34
Thibautrali1234 , would you like us to do more show and tell part of the Snappy Clinic?15:35
ogra_ali1234, it is tutorials but people ask questions on IRC while they happen :)15:35
ali1234i'd like to see someone install snappy core on a raspberry pi, then install a very simple snap like a LED blinker, all in one session, no interruptions, demo problems etc :)15:35
ali1234not just show-and-tell but actually showing every command run to achieve it15:36
ali1234i remember seeing a juju demo along those lines once15:37
dholbachtedg, can you drop me a mail with that, so I don't forget? I can try to get it on there15:37
Thibautrubuntu-core TV!15:38
tedgdholbach: sent15:39
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Porting popular apps/software to Snappy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22591/core-1511-porting-raspberry-pi-apps-to-snappy/
dholbachanyone who wants to join the porting session?16:00
elopioI want to.16:01
dholbachthe notes ar up on http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-core-1511-porting-raspberry-pi-apps-to-snappy16:03
elopioI will take notes16:04
dholbachif anyone of you wants so add more thoughts to it, please go ahead16:04
dholbachzt, ^ there's the link for the hangout16:05
dholbachdoes that work for you?16:05
tedgI think the real question comes down to graphics. How do we expect people to use a display on the Raspberry Pi2?16:05
ali1234i see a list of various libraries on the pad... gstreamer is conspicuously absent, and it's without doubt the best way to stream video out of the pi camera16:06
ali1234and especially when used with gst-rpicamsrc - which unfortunately does not seem to be even packaged16:06
kyrofatedg, ooo yeah, good question16:06
dholbachali1234, adding gstreamer16:07
ali1234(i actually use gstreamer in my robot)16:07
ali1234the most popular apps if you asked every rpi user would be kodi, emulation-station, and some generic NAS software16:09
ali1234personally i'd like to see mythtv-backend16:10
elopioali1234: emulation station, like a play station emulator?16:11
ali1234emulation-station is like a front end for every emulator16:11
tedgI think an interesting example might be a Deb repo mirror. It is one that a lot of Ubuntu power users/devs might find very practical. :-)16:11
ali1234tedg: oooh that's a good one yeah16:11
elopiotedg: yeah, cache.16:11
kyrofaI agree with kodi, that seems to be a big rpi thing16:12
tedgSquid with adblock might also be popular with folks.16:12
tedgI think that mzagnetti did a Guh snap. Might be interesting to promote that more.16:13
kyrofaIs there a way to run multiple websites behind apache or nginx yet?16:13
dholbachtedg, what's Guh?16:13
tedgdholbach: https://github.com/guh/guh/wiki/Getting-started-snappy16:14
dholbachok :)16:14
loolI dont know whether we still want openwrt as a snap16:15
loolit's more inspiration for what we'd want to provide in terms of features16:16
kyrofaI'd love to make a few web app snaps but I figure a bundled apache won't allow for multiple of those snaps being installed16:16
loollucy is the web UI of openwrt16:16
thibautrhi mkarliner!16:16
dholbachhey hey16:17
mkarliner+1 for mosquitto 1.4!!!16:17
mkarlinerThere is an issue with the underlying websockets on 1.416:19
mkarlinerah thanks16:19
mkarlinerIts an MQTT broker 1.4 supports websockets16:19
ali1234+1 for arduino/avr development16:22
mkarlineruse node-red on RPi...16:23
mkarlinerWith arduino plugin16:23
ali1234there's more to AVR than just arduino... tools like dfu-update and avrdude for ICSP16:23
ali1234there's a raspberry pi utility that turns it into a logic analyser that streams to your PC16:25
ali1234that's what i use for i2c sniffing as well16:25
tedgthibautr: Is that this guy? http://samnazarko.co.uk/about/16:30
thibautrthis guy ... the UK alternative to Nest :D16:32
=== hikiko-lpt is now known as hikiko
ali1234everyone will vote for kodi :)16:37
ali1234there's an entire raspberry distribution for kodi16:39
ali1234like a whole disk image16:39
dholbachthanks everyone!16:40
tedgI'd like to see us get it as a release target for the kodi upstream16:40
tedgRather than someone in our community doing a package.16:40
loolthibautr: it's team maintained in Debian16:40
looldunno in Ubuntu16:40
loolBalint Reczey seems to be the recurring uploader16:40
tedgthibautr: ncube is pretty interesting.16:47
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/05/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html
=== kyrofa_ is now known as kyrofa
dholbachslangasek, do you know who'll run the F2FS session?17:46
dholbachthe summary of the python3 session also is still missing17:46
slangasekdholbach: I do not; I didn't approve/schedule this session, did you?17:46
dholbachsorry, I did - I put it on the schedule since it seemed like it was forgotten - I can remove it though17:47
dholbachpopey, ^ do you know if Martin wanted to run this?17:48
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | F2FS support for Ubiquity installer in 16.04 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22645/f2fs-support-for-ubiquity-installer-in-1604/
popeydholbach, i don't17:57
dholbachanyone who's running this session?17:57
popeydid martin ask for it?17:58
* popey pings him on telegram17:58
dholbachattendees of the session are: Teg, Martin Wimpress, Jorge O. Castro, Alan Pope ㋛17:59
dholbachand as I didn't know Teg....17:59
dholbachif nobody shows up to lead the session, we could still make it a discussion on the mailing list17:59
dholbachok... I'll remove it from the schedule18:03
dholbachslangasek, ^18:03
slangasekdholbach: fine with me18:06
popeychecked with martin, he didn't make it18:06
popeyno idea who did18:06
slangasekteg made it18:07
slangasekbut I don't know teg18:07
slangaseknot here and no email listed in lp18:07
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/05/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html
=== dholbach is now known as therealpopey
=== therealpopey is now known as dholbach

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