=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/05/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html === hikiko-lpt is now known as hikiko === jzheng is now known as jzheng_afk === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Your feedback counts: the Snappy onboarding experience | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22593/core-1511-snappy-onboarding-feedback/ [13:59] does anyone of you want to join the hangout? [14:00] (starting in a minute or two) [14:00] ok... if you want to join the conversation later on, let me know [14:02] o/ [14:05] which experience have you had with snappy so far and what have you done with it? [14:06] it'd be great if you could join the hangout, so we could hear more about your thoughts [14:06] anyone? [14:07] I have tried Snappy on Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone, VM, mainly trying initially to play with it and installing apps. [14:07] dholbach, how do I join? or should I join? [14:08] My biggest issue with the on-boarding process was that the documentation online was terribly out-of-date and I was pointed to the src to read ITS docs since they're more up-to-date [14:08] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeI_Q90YrhaSHfFTnhJ0s6x6TqDm3zADvBsnxoBU1t5JqoerA [14:08] this is the link to the hangout [14:08] yeah, sadly snappy is still moving very fast with things changing at times [14:08] and docs only being updated subsequently [14:09] ogra_, and that's understandable, but it would be great to change the docs at the same pace [14:09] Maybe it should be more automated [14:09] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeI_Q90YrhaSHfFTnhJ0s6x6TqDm3zADvBsnxoBU1t5JqoerA [14:09] there are attempst to do that by maintaining the docs inside the code [14:09] ^if you want to join [14:09] and by automatically aggregating them [14:09] Ah, that would be great :) [14:10] it already happens for some documentation [14:10] kyrofa, which docs were out-of-date? [14:10] what we are missing is an integration test for docs. If the test fails, the docs and the test need to be updated. [14:11] taking notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-core-1511-snappy-onboarding-feedback [14:11] i'm an ubuntu user but frankly snappy is so different and weird that it doesn't help at all [14:11] ali1234, what is confusing or bewildering? [14:11] Is that... sergiusens?? [14:11] ali1234: tell us more about your use case. [14:12] ali1234, depends what you want to do :) [14:12] He's alive! [14:12] kyrofa, he pretends to [14:12] Hahaha [14:12] (in reality he is lying in bed and only driving that puppet on a stick that you see in the HO [14:12] ) [14:13] kyrofa, yes [14:13] elopio: i don't have a use case, i don't even know enough about snappy to know if it would be useful to me or not [14:13] no, I am better :-) [14:13] kyrofa, from tuesday, s/sick/ill/ [14:13] ali1234: try installing the lxd snap, and deploy a ubuntu wily container. [14:14] ali1234, did you take a look at snapcraft already ? (the "apt-get for github" as someone called it recently) [14:14] ogra_: i googled it about half an hour ago, all i found was stuff about minecraft [14:15] heh [14:15] i guess we need to do better with google scoring [14:16] ali1234, I always suggest prepending your search with "ubuntu" [14:16] Who's got a Raspberry Pi? [14:16] i do [14:16] I do [14:16] Thibautr, i don't see your lower third :-) [14:16] ali1234, there are definitely a bunch of tutorials on youtube how to use it [14:16] Thibautr: I like that. I want my rpi to be my kodi box. [14:17] elopio: openelec makes that very easy and awesome. [14:17] I own several raspis, but only one is model 2 [14:17] * ogra_ wants his rpi to steer his heating and solar power system [14:18] What would you like to use your Raspberry Pi for? [14:18] I like my bbb better, but I want to use it to hack. [14:18] i use mine as a jtag debugger and i2c sniffer [14:19] elopio: the advantage of the raspi over other boards is availability [14:19] garage door open detector/alarm [14:19] elopio: it's much easier to get your hands on a raspi [14:19] Who's using their Rpi2 on a daily basis? [14:20] and I would like to replace the openwrt on my router with ubuntu. [14:20] Thibautr, I have a use case we could use [14:20] rpi2 - yes, daily - openelec/kodi [14:20] no, not daily yet. [14:20] garage door open detector - unsure about power requirements and which sensors would be best. Little time. [14:21] jrwren: how easy is to update your openelec? [14:26] QUESTION: I'd love to use my raspi2 with snappy for my electromechanical games, but I need sound support. Are audio drivers supported already? Is that already using pulse or plain alsa? [14:27] wililupy: snap services run as root any way [14:27] err sorry willcooke [14:27] willcooke, on snappy you always run everything as root ... [14:27] willcooke: but you'll need to give access to /sys files to your snap [14:27] i mean your snap does [14:27] rick and jamie wrote stuff on this [14:27] ogra_: (commands run as the user who runs them though) [14:28] oh, right, but services dont [14:28] i can definitely include needed bits indeed [14:28] if there is anythin to include [14:29] Thibautr, https://github.com/8none1/thermostat [14:29] NO LAUGHING! [14:29] * tedg can't stop laughing [14:29] giggling allowwed ? [14:30] Why are their sunny icons? I thought you were in England? [14:30] there [14:31] QUESTION: how will development look when the tools themselves are packaged in snaps? [14:31] all code and no pep8 makes /me a dull boy :) [14:31] elopio: very easy. copy files into place and restart and the system updates itself. [14:32] ali1234, you will have a "classic" mode on snappy [14:32] ali1234, meanin you can install a developer snap that gets you a deb based container [14:32] i wanted to use snappy on my robot but it is built around the pi A+ so that was a none starter [14:32] I had an issue with snapcraft .3 where I built a snap and it would fail saying it couldn't find /dev/null, but it seems to be fixed in .4 I successfully built my snap last night. [14:32] in which you then can use snapcraft [14:32] kyrofa, want to share anything ros and ubuntu core? [14:33] ogra_: so basically if i'm a developer i will not ever use snap packages myself? [14:33] you will use them as the end result [14:33] to run and test them [14:33] what if i only write development tools? [14:34] you might be able to roll your own classic mode for this and provide it in the store, [14:34] sergiusens, I have no snappy+ROS experience to share, I'm afraid. I'd love to but I don't have any robotic hardware around here :( [14:34] say i write a tool like cmake [14:34] wililupy, good to know, feel free to log any bugs or send email to snappy-app-devel@ or #snappy with any issues; blockers for adoption we look at solving quicker than others [14:34] do i have to bundle gcc and every other compiler ever into the biggest snap ever in order to make it work? [14:34] ali1234, then you will provide a snapcraft plugin for it and perhaps your own classic mode snap that includes it by default (or get it included into the existing one) [14:35] ali1234, for development you will likely simply not use snappy itself, it is rather a delivery thing, your development happens outside of the deployment (in a classic container, on a desktop etc) [14:36] ogra_: i thought the plan was to convert the desktop to snaps? [14:36] it is [14:36] https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/getting-started-cli/ [14:36] and there you will also use a classic container to develop ;) [14:37] ogra_: i saw the session yesterday about legacy apps [14:37] yeah, classic mode is a bit more than that [14:37] libertine i think it's called? [14:37] libertine adds confinement to not confined apps [14:37] by wrapping a chroot or container [14:37] okay [14:38] classic gives youa complete dev env in a container [14:38] so if i have to always work inside a classic container to do anything, why should i care about snappy? [14:38] that enables you to have it spit out a snap you can immediately install on your desktop [14:38] because snappy is your base system [14:39] but i cant do anything with it without a classic container [14:39] if you want to install your produced binary you will have to generate a snap [14:39] so i might as well just install my software inside the container and use it that way [14:39] you can indeed :) [14:40] it seems like most of the software i write would not work in a snap [14:40] QUESTION: How do I get my snap to show the correct version instead of random letters? Does it not get this from the version: flag in the snapcraft.yaml? [14:40] but if you want to deliver it to others whats easier ? telling them "select this snap from the snap store on your PC" or "read and follow this howto to set up a container and install these 25 debs inside" [14:40] wililupy, that's if you use a side-loaded version [14:40] wililupy: not when sideloading [14:40] if it comes from the store, it gets a proper version number [14:41] dholbach: for now :) [14:41] bah [14:41] wililupy: the "for now" is because, what do you need the "proper" version number for? [14:41] wililupy: often it's to hardcode the version in a path somewhere [14:41] wililupy: and you shouldn't do that [14:41] It was for a demo, I just wanted to clean it up. [14:41] ali1234, right, if you only work on core build tools or some such you are definitely better off with debs ... but perhaps in contexxxt of a classic mode that already contains yoyur tools (and your preferred IDE and all libs your tools consume etc) [14:42] so you might want a snap to make it easier for other devs to make use of your tool [14:43] ali1234, and you want snappy for your OS because a release to release upgrade will take 2min vs 2h, it will automatically roll back in case somethin went wrong etc etc [14:44] wililupy: to support rapid dev iterations where you change something, rebuild, install, repeatedly on the device _without having to bump the version every time_, the version when sideloaded is ~random [14:44] it's actually a timestamp, but same thing [14:47] Thank you all for the information. [14:48] mvo_, sergiusens, Chipaca: do you have an answer for alecu and his audio framework? :) [14:49] i missed the question [14:49] QUESTION: I'd love to use my raspi2 with snappy for my electromechanical games, but I need sound support. Are audio drivers supported already? Is that already using pulse or plain alsa? [14:49] or ogra^ [14:49] ah! [14:49] alecu: just plain alsa should work [14:49] great! [14:49] alecu: as long as it's a single snap wanting to use sound [14:50] alecu: and you do the hw-assign dance, i imagine (try it and tell us :) [14:50] Chipaca: yes, that sounds perfect [14:50] ogra_: my concern is that i'll end up with a huge amount of stuff installed manually in classic mode, and upgrading the base OS won't magically upgrade all that stuff [14:50] Chipaca: I will [14:51] ali1234, well, then snappy is probably only interesting for users of your stuff [14:51] and not for yourself [14:51] ogra_: i am the only user for 99% of the software i write [14:51] right [14:52] so the more interesting thng for you might to provide a snapcraft plugin for users that acually want to use your tools and youself stay with deb [14:52] (if you actually want users :) ) [14:54] nice one [14:54] thanks everyone [14:54] Thanks! [14:54] thanks [14:55] thank you! [14:55] thanks ! [14:55] * ali1234 goes to #snappy === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Snappy Developer Community Resources | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22592/core-1511-snappy-developer-community-resources/ [15:00] all right... does anyone want to join the hangout? [15:00] this session is about snappy (online) resources [15:05] Who uses primarily Stack Overflow when trying to solve a problem? [15:05] it depends on the problem [15:06] if it is very very technical and ubuntu-specific i have not had much luck with AU [15:06] actually that gos for pretty much anything very technical [15:06] So do you switch to Google? [15:06] I mean googling your problem? [15:06] no, i start with google [15:06] OK :D [15:07] if that fails i will either ask on SO if it's something ... i dunno how to say it but kind of "mid level" [15:07] if it's extremely technical i look at the source and then go and ask the person on irc [15:08] often google leads me to an existing answer on SO! [15:08] that's why i start there [15:09] Really SO is an excellent SEO job :-) [15:09] i don't care where the answer is as long as google can find it :) [15:09] aahaha [15:09] the only thing i don't really like is mailing lists because the archives are hard to read and failing that you have to subscribe etc [15:09] can someone write a telegram plugin so I get pinged about askubuntu questions tagged snapcraft? [15:10] That would be cool [15:10] QUESTION ^ [15:10] Hmm, searching Google for anything about stack overflow doesn't get what you watn. [15:11] sergiusens: i could probably hack that together [15:12] ali1234, that would be nice :-) [15:12] askubuntu only has one snapcraft question [15:12] from dpm [15:13] Oh, we'll need it to filter out questions from dpm ;-) [15:13] SO to RSS , RSS to telegram? [15:14] Thibautr, there's already an irc bot that spits questions from askubuntu for ubunut-touch [15:14] I just want to transform that to telegram ;-) [15:14] SO to RSS , RSS to IRC, IRC to Telegram :D [15:14] there's bots for telegram apparently [15:14] mmm [15:14] ali1234, yup, we have one for lp bug reports already [15:15] so all the code exists, just a matter of merging it together... that's pretty much my specialty [15:18] if we need a list, what better that SO ? [15:18] keep it dynamic [15:19] do you have a feel for what might be more popular or a better venue? SO or AU? [15:20] askubuntu [15:20] I was conflating SO as the same thing [15:20] that's a really difficult one. i feel like on one hand AU makes more logical sense, but AU has always seemed to be end-user focused [15:20] hey [15:20] Gonna have to figure out how to log into AU again... [15:21] tedg: i use launchpad openid [15:21] ali1234: I used my own, then they dropped V1 and I haven't upgraded. [15:21] doh [15:22] Looks like you can only do SO to email [15:24] no [15:24] ah, I don't at least [15:25] you can't do it? [15:25] http://stackexchange.com/filters/210379/ubuntu-core [15:25] Thibautr, i definitely dont want to get all 750 IRC pings i get per day piped to telegram on my phone :P [15:25] ahah [15:25] email it can be [15:27] For workshops generally, I think that virt-manager is better. [15:28] Everyone can use that and get it running, they don't need specific hardware. [15:28] Besides the docker snap failing, I think I had a good one put together :-) [15:32] I would do a workshop for non Ubuntu users too :D [15:32] Wait, who are these people you speak of? [15:32] QUESTION: any plans for webinar style demos? like the ubuntu learning week? haven't seen one of those for a while [15:33] We do snappy clinics [15:33] Thibautr, then you likely want virtualbox [15:33] ali1234: They're on the ubuntu-on-air schedule [15:33] ali1234, yes, they happen recular [15:33] *regular [15:33] ali1234: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-qBHd6_LXWYm8qttcXaosAIzejTa5IPj [15:34] those seem more question-and-answer? [15:34] dholbach: Can we get the ROS UOS session in that playlist? [15:34] Oh, I was just joking about non-Ubuntu users. [15:35] ali1234 , would you like us to do more show and tell part of the Snappy Clinic? [15:35] ali1234, it is tutorials but people ask questions on IRC while they happen :) [15:35] i'd like to see someone install snappy core on a raspberry pi, then install a very simple snap like a LED blinker, all in one session, no interruptions, demo problems etc :) [15:36] not just show-and-tell but actually showing every command run to achieve it [15:37] i remember seeing a juju demo along those lines once [15:37] tedg, can you drop me a mail with that, so I don't forget? I can try to get it on there [15:38] ubuntu-core TV! [15:39] dholbach: sent === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Porting popular apps/software to Snappy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22591/core-1511-porting-raspberry-pi-apps-to-snappy/ [16:00] anyone who wants to join the porting session? [16:01] I want to. [16:01] me [16:02] cool [16:02] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcfsOpn06JCaJMFwxKzAv0Yel_ooGg-QnomzZA7SO2Y9ZLKvg [16:03] the notes ar up on http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1511-core-1511-porting-raspberry-pi-apps-to-snappy [16:04] I will take notes [16:04] if anyone of you wants so add more thoughts to it, please go ahead [16:05] zt, ^ there's the link for the hangout [16:05] does that work for you? [16:05] I think the real question comes down to graphics. How do we expect people to use a display on the Raspberry Pi2? [16:06] i see a list of various libraries on the pad... gstreamer is conspicuously absent, and it's without doubt the best way to stream video out of the pi camera [16:06] and especially when used with gst-rpicamsrc - which unfortunately does not seem to be even packaged [16:06] tedg, ooo yeah, good question [16:07] ali1234, adding gstreamer [16:07] (i actually use gstreamer in my robot) [16:09] the most popular apps if you asked every rpi user would be kodi, emulation-station, and some generic NAS software [16:10] personally i'd like to see mythtv-backend [16:11] ali1234: emulation station, like a play station emulator? [16:11] emulation-station is like a front end for every emulator [16:11] I think an interesting example might be a Deb repo mirror. It is one that a lot of Ubuntu power users/devs might find very practical. :-) [16:11] tedg: oooh that's a good one yeah [16:11] tedg: yeah, cache. [16:12] I agree with kodi, that seems to be a big rpi thing [16:12] http://emulationstation.org/ [16:12] Squid with adblock might also be popular with folks. [16:13] I think that mzagnetti did a Guh snap. Might be interesting to promote that more. [16:13] Is there a way to run multiple websites behind apache or nginx yet? [16:13] tedg, what's Guh? [16:14] dholbach: https://github.com/guh/guh/wiki/Getting-started-snappy [16:14] ok :) [16:14] http://notyetthere.org/snap-up-your-home/ [16:15] I dont know whether we still want openwrt as a snap [16:16] it's more inspiration for what we'd want to provide in terms of features [16:16] I'd love to make a few web app snaps but I figure a bundled apache won't allow for multiple of those snaps being installed [16:16] lucy is the web UI of openwrt [16:16] hi mkarliner! [16:17] hi [16:17] hey hey [16:17] +1 for mosquitto 1.4!!! [16:19] There is an issue with the underlying websockets on 1.4 [16:19] ah thanks [16:19] Its an MQTT broker 1.4 supports websockets [16:22] +1 for arduino/avr development [16:23] use node-red on RPi... [16:23] With arduino plugin [16:23] there's more to AVR than just arduino... tools like dfu-update and avrdude for ICSP [16:25] there's a raspberry pi utility that turns it into a logic analyser that streams to your PC [16:25] that's what i use for i2c sniffing as well [16:30] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ncubehome/ncube-the-only-app-youll-need-for-your-smart-home [16:30] thibautr: Is that this guy? http://samnazarko.co.uk/about/ [16:32] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/b/2cec897a-1bec-4e17-9168-304c2afb6902 [16:32] this guy ... the UK alternative to Nest :D === hikiko-lpt is now known as hikiko [16:37] everyone will vote for kodi :) [16:39] there's an entire raspberry distribution for kodi [16:39] like a whole disk image [16:40] thanks everyone! [16:40] I'd like to see us get it as a release target for the kodi upstream [16:40] Rather than someone in our community doing a package. [16:40] thibautr: it's team maintained in Debian [16:40] dunno in Ubuntu [16:40] Balint Reczey seems to be the recurring uploader [16:47] thibautr: ncube is pretty interesting. === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/05/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html === kyrofa_ is now known as kyrofa [17:46] slangasek, do you know who'll run the F2FS session? [17:46] the summary of the python3 session also is still missing [17:46] dholbach: I do not; I didn't approve/schedule this session, did you? [17:47] sorry, I did - I put it on the schedule since it seemed like it was forgotten - I can remove it though [17:48] popey, ^ do you know if Martin wanted to run this? === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | F2FS support for Ubiquity installer in 16.04 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22645/f2fs-support-for-ubiquity-installer-in-1604/ [17:57] dholbach, i don't [17:57] hum...... [17:57] anyone who's running this session? [17:58] did martin ask for it? [17:58] * popey pings him on telegram [17:59] attendees of the session are: Teg, Martin Wimpress, Jorge O. Castro, Alan Pope ㋛ [17:59] and as I didn't know Teg.... [17:59] if nobody shows up to lead the session, we could still make it a discussion on the mailing list [18:03] ok... I'll remove it from the schedule [18:03] slangasek, ^ [18:06] dholbach: fine with me [18:06] thanks [18:06] checked with martin, he didn't make it [18:06] no idea who did [18:07] teg made it [18:07] but I don't know teg [18:07] not here and no email listed in lp === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/05/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html === dholbach is now known as therealpopey === therealpopey is now known as dholbach