[04:29] good morning to all [05:51] Latrodectus: welcome mate :p [05:51] ty for the invite [05:51] Latrodectus: the idea behind this, we all do support but never have a chance to discuss to each other [05:51] Latrodectus: so here we are discussing, to make a better support also [05:53] sweet [05:53] we also share latest ubuntu news [05:53] interesting [05:54] has the update/upgrade problem been solved for 15.10? [05:54] Latrodectus: well in my opninion, there are many 15.04/15.10 issues so far [05:55] upgrade/screen/acpi issues [05:55] all depends on different system right Latrodectus [05:55] yup [05:55] others have no issues [05:56] Latrodectus: but we notice alot of black screens/login loops [05:56] mostly by wrong drivers [05:56] yup [05:57] and then the person doesn't read the output of the update/upgrade and reboots... [05:57] yeah upgrading on non-lts is always tricky without backups [05:57] Latrodectus: im on trusty and also testing xenial [05:57] yup, this is why i usually stick to lts [05:57] nice nice! [05:58] though one thing that i found distasteful about ubuntu, was the suggested apps in unity and the inability to turn it off [05:59] Latrodectus: you mean paying apps? [05:59] yes [05:59] but having them in the menu itself [05:59] and no way to turn it off [05:59] ah, you can choose to turnoff internet hits in dash [06:00] !info unity-tweak-tool | Latrodectus can help tweak things [06:00] Latrodectus can help tweak things: unity-tweak-tool (source: unity-tweak-tool): configuration tool for the Unity desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6ubuntu2 (vivid), package size 325 kB, installed size 2550 kB [06:00] interesting, no one told me about this [06:00] so i just changed distro to xubuntu [06:01] oh also cool [06:01] well i rather used to unity now [06:01] ya i run both lubuntu and xubuntu [06:01] thats for everyones choice [06:01] nicely [06:02] unity seemed nice, but when i saw the resource usage i, and the paid apps, i changed to xubuntu [06:02] *usage, [06:02] yeah i understand [06:02] i like unity's left bar ease [06:02] true [06:04] xubuntu is nice n fast [06:05] i need the speed because i'm planning to do some multi media production on it [06:06] nice, specificly what? [06:07] music, animation, image, editing, maybe some video editing [06:07] *image editing [06:07] nice! [06:09] i think that linux has gotten to a level that you can begin to do post processing on it, i'm just gonna see how far i can go with it. [06:09] plus i hate apple, and dislike windows [06:09] same here mate [06:10] i installed trusty on so many boxes [06:10] and try to spread the word :p [06:10] opensource is the future [06:10] here's then thing that i tell the apple sheep: apple's whole busness model is to rip you off, by selling you the crappiest shit, for the most expensive price [06:11] and for those windows fanboys: window's busness model is DLC [06:11] lol [06:12] true [06:12] though it's shifting to being a paid platform for three letter agencies [06:12] like cortana really? [06:12] you're gonna try to exfil info about your users, and then charge them for it? [06:12] lol nope [06:13] its a $$$ world [06:13] yup [06:13] that's where linux flat out wins [06:13] linux should take over the universe [06:13] ubuntu made a big jump last years [06:13] i totaly agree [06:14] and i see a couple of big jumps for linux in the future [06:14] especially with big bussiness picking it up [06:14] yeah [06:15] but you know what that means though? [06:15] more viruses for linux [06:15] yes, just readed something yesterday [06:15] oh link? [06:15] optirun virus for android,linux,windows,mac [06:16] hmmm not sure of the name [06:17] that's okay, i know that viruses exsist for all platforms [06:17] indeed [06:17] alot of 0day rootkits out there [06:17] even for linux [06:17] the only reason why linux and mac don't have big problems is because of the market share of windows [06:18] like why write something that can only target 10% of the market when you can write something that will target 70%-80% [06:18] yeah [06:19] the only thing that protects linux right now is how premissions are setup [06:19] and recent updates [06:19] yes [06:19] to patch security holes [06:20] i think that the default setting for security updates should be to do it immedatly when found [06:20] and to not prompt the user [06:20] Latrodectus: http://www.viruss.eu/security-news/omnirat-on-the-loose-spywares-nibbling-android-with-a-taste-for-linux-mac-and-windows/ [06:20] omnirat it was [06:20] ty [06:21] to be fare though 80% of android devices are insecure... [06:21] Latrodectus: well the user is still the boss of the system [06:21] Latrodectus: maybe even 99% lol [06:21] yup, but security should not be left up to the sheep [06:22] that google app store is a malware nightmare [06:22] google is a malware nightmare [06:22] i despite pc banking on phones and leak Oses [06:22] its a real nasty danger for our future [06:23] yup [06:23] banks should block mobile connections [06:23] because they're not capabel of security [06:23] banks dont care, what users do [06:23] but banks should care about loseing money [06:23] the sheeps loosing money all round the globe [06:24] they never loose a dime, insurances [06:24] but they could pay less for insurance if they didn't have to pay out so much [06:24] its the ppl that loose big money [06:24] thats true [06:25] im sure that every bank have rootkits [06:25] i know that banks like to rip people off, but they should be smart about their security [06:25] and remote hackers can follow every move [06:25] i've gotten to a point that i don't trust any electronic device that's connected to the internet [06:25] the whole world is one big botnet [06:25] very true [06:26] and then any device that ever touched the internet is tainted [06:26] your healthy paranoia mate [06:26] even offline boxes got usb infections [06:26] spreading around their intranet [06:27] yup [06:27] anyway brekfast here Latrodectus tnx for joining us and feel free to add to favs [06:27] ty for inviteing me, have a good day [06:27] Latrodectus: you too :p [07:34] sup [07:50] nm, getting tired [07:50] i know that feeling [07:51] you know the feeling that you get from not blinking, while looking at a screen for hours on end [07:52] well i tend to blink every now and then, but yeah lol i know that feeling [07:54] well i think that my eyes are about to fall out... [08:07] lol that sucks [09:59] morning to all [10:32] morning tj [10:33] morning [10:34] TJ-: having issues loading a 4.3 kernel on xenial [10:35] says error on archive --install [10:35] after a sudo dpkg -i linux-headers-4.3.0-040300-generic_4.3.0-040300.201511020846_amd64.deb [10:36] have the other related packages also been installed? [10:37] TJ-: this is what the guy asked me:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477 [10:37] Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Medium,Confirmed] [10:38] no, just put that .deb in a test folder in /home [10:38] To be frank, I'd ignore that for now. The later kernel isn't going to help. That device has been supported since 12.04 or even earlier. [10:38] thats what i thought [10:38] That's just the standard response to kernel bug reports [10:39] should i just reply confirmed then [10:39] If you can wait a day until I've got my WMP600N into a working Mobo here we can see what is expected, and compare with your system [10:39] ok mate [10:39] will do [10:39] Good morning. [10:39] lordieeeee [10:39] wet and soggy morning :) [10:39] sunny here [10:40] I've spent a happy hour converting the Arch iptables systemd service and default rule setting into a nicer Debianised modular format. I *like* systemd :) [10:40] News reported yesterday was the hottest day since measurement started. 18C in november. [10:41] yeah lets hope for a cr4ppy winter [10:41] lordievader: WMP600N has been supported about 10 years: see e.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/Linksys%20WMP600N [10:41] My iptables systemd service simply calls a script which sets everything up (ipset & ip(6)tables) [10:41] lets c [10:42] TJ-: That is for lotus|xenial I think ;) [10:42] karmic [10:42] lordievader: same here; a single script that works for ipv4/6 and reads sets of default rules to apply from /usr/share/ and /etc/ [10:42] Grrr, tab complete! [10:42] and early morning [10:43] Ipset is really nice :D [10:43] lordievader: I'm going to get the script and service control added to the iptables package so we have standard support, regardless of UFW. It's much more important with IPv6 now becoming more widespread, else systems are left open [10:44] Wasn't that the default Ubuntu policy, accept all? [10:44] Yes, which has to change [10:45] Couldn't agree more. Never understood why they didn't at least set the drop policy on the input table. [10:45] It may be OK with IPv4 where most services are done outside the kernel, but with IPv6 so much is integrated into the protocol, especially with ICMPv6 RA, NS, and everything else [10:46] but it is refreshing to be able to throw PNAT out the window and just route :) [10:46] Perhaps that was the reasoning, "most boxes are behind nat we can allow input". [10:48] Yes, precisely [10:52] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477 [10:52] Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Medium,Confirmed] [10:52] oops [10:52] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/omnirat_malware_android_poc_mac_linux/ [10:53] lotus|xenial: Would the RT2800usb suffer the same problem? [10:53] lordievader: i think so [10:54] Hmm, that would explain a thing or two. [10:54] lordievader: i had it working on trusty after fixing something with TJ- with linux-firmware [10:54] cant remember how exactly [10:55] Must say I haven't really fully troubleshooted the issue yet. [10:55] anyway ill try to bug ancient bus to xenial again in early stage :p [10:55] bugs [10:56] here's my second: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1513801 [10:56] Ubuntu bug 1513801 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Scrambled screen and mouse pointer on first boot" [Undecided,New] [10:56] * lordievader blames Unity :P [10:56] :p [10:57] yeah havent tested kubuntu on this card,ever [10:57] maybe i should [10:58] OK, I must still be asleep! Just spent 10 minutes trying to debug an error in a bash shell script... then realised I was calling it with 'sh' as in "sh -x /path/to/script" - no wonder if failed! [10:59] :p [10:59] !coffee [10:59] TJ-: More coffee!! [10:59] * lordievader slide TJ- a cup [10:59] cfhowletttttttttttttt [10:59] hey bubba! [11:00] lol [11:00] how are things in beijing [11:00] counting down. I'm soon to relocate; Tokyo. [11:00] cfhowlett: for good? [11:01] i love japan [11:01] well, for the length of the employment contract. It'll be my first time. Looking forward to it. [11:01] nice [11:01] eat alot of sushi for me [11:02] yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah, no. sake maybe? [11:02] of course [11:02] no sushi without sake [11:02] :0 [11:07] lol away [11:07] hey, I was gentle. [11:07] and he did it!! [11:08] :) that's a win [11:16] Grrr, I'm getting annoyed. NM runs 2 private instances of dhclient when using both IPv4 and IPv6. when those processes write to the syslog they don't identify themselves. So, I have a message there and don't know which one is having difficulty! [11:17] realtime tail -f cant seperate them neither i presume? [11:25] TJ-: maybe this can help: http://serverfault.com/questions/556124/monitoring-ipv4-vs-ipv6-traffic [11:34] uh-oh [11:34] * pikaaaa (~ubuntu@115.246.94.209) has joined [11:35] Known troll? [11:36] yes [11:36] he comes back with false info lordievader [11:36] Do ops know about him? [11:37] daftykins added an op report, but not sure they was awake at this time [11:37] lordievader: he quoted TJ- last time to use for another user and wasnt relevant [11:37] Probably just to look knowledgable. [11:37] yeah [11:38] yesss hes got in with ikonia lol [11:38] now its not gonna take long lol [11:40] yayyy [11:40] lol [11:40] he got himself banned [11:42] I'm not surprised :P [11:42] lordievader: all ok with your new ssd? [11:43] Yeah, it is working nicely. [11:43] nice! [11:43] ok dinnertime here guys [11:43] bbl [11:43] if anyone see daftykins tell him pikachu got banned [11:45] Dinner? It is the afternoon? [12:41] 'Morning folks [12:44] Hey BluesKaj [12:45] Hey lordievader [12:46] How are you doing today? [12:49] fine here, lordievader, and you? [12:49] Doing good here [12:52] heavy frost last night, but supposed to be +10 or so this afternoon, gotta finish raking the leaves before the rain later this week [12:54] It is around 17 today, quite warm for november. [13:14] yes , we had 20 last weeks for a few days [13:15] err last week [18:27] yay no more pikachu! :) (i'm keeping with the pokemon nickname, it's funnier) [18:35] lol [18:35] daftykins: \o [18:36] hallo! [18:36] how are we all this relaxed sunday night? [18:36] good good, you? [18:37] yeah not bad thanks :) [18:37] :) [18:37] looks like a chance call and meet today has got me some work \o/ [18:37] awesome [18:37] helping to properly network cable an electrician friends client's house [18:37] i bought the tv today [18:37] ah yeah? happy with it? [18:38] which did you settle on? :D [18:38] they didn't have 1920x1080 though, the guy said they dont carry it for 32" tv's there [18:38] i got a 1366x768 one [18:38] ah ok [18:39] my 2006 Sony was that res - and my laptop is :> [18:39] i ended up getting a samsung, i wanted an lg, but the seat wont work cause of the funky leg design [18:39] but i'm happy with the samsung, it's nice [18:40] excellent :> [18:40] was the plan just to watch TV, or to connect your laptop/PC into it too? [18:40] man they have some crazy shit there [18:40] like curved huge tv's and stuff [18:41] i was like whoa O.o [18:41] nah, it's just for watching tv [18:42] 1366x768 tvs are cheap, i want a full hd 200 mhz [18:45] why are the new ones curved anyways? [18:47] some kinda gimmick [18:47] the idea is that our eyes prefer a curved display [18:47] i've not seen one in person, but someone i know got one and they say they don't even notice the difference in use [18:47] it looks pretty cool i'd say [18:48] i want to go buy a hdmi cable and lots of neat pc stuff [18:50] such intel compute-stick too? [18:51] what's that? [18:52] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/07/02/intel-compute-stick-now-comes-with-ubuntu/ [18:53] plugin hdmi, attach bt keyboard and go [18:54] wow that is nuts! [18:54] what's funny is the Linux ones i've seen have way lower specs compared to the Windows one XD [18:55] lol [18:55] one sidenote: it is a huge stick hanging on your hdmi .. [18:56] yeah that's true [18:56] i want to maybe get a hdmi cable for my room's tv -> pc i had one but it broke a while ago, for the ps3 too [18:57] and maybe some random usb's maybe [18:58] :D [18:58] the little FireTV stick things amazon sell, they at least come with a short extension in case your HDMI sockets are too close together [19:00] it's pretty nuts that they fit a quad core on that thing [19:00] That would be preferrable. [19:00] a usb pc, heh [19:00] with microsd card slot [19:01] hmm it has a power input? [19:01] and 2 usb slots? 1 for key 1 for mouse? [19:03] oh ok 1 usb slot [19:04] and wireless keyboard and mouse [19:05] i think it uses it's own power supply though [19:06] yeah no power from HDMI, the amazon things for example would use what is basically a smartphone charger [19:06] i wonder if you get the windows one could you format and install ubuntu on it? [19:07] they gave ubuntu 1gb memory and 8gb space, windows is 2gb and 32gb space [19:07] good evening to all [19:08] hey sir! funny news about our buddy pikachu i saw there :> [19:08] evening lotuspsychje [19:09] hey daftykins and EriC^^ [19:09] daftykins: yeah got him right where i wanted :p [19:09] daftykins: started to make scene while ikonia was on lol [19:09] lotuspsychje: I've just fired up a PC with the WMP600N in [19:10] TJ-: nice, wich ubuntu version? [19:10] 12.04 [19:10] TJ-: hows that working out [19:11] brb [19:12] :) http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/08/%23ubuntu-ops.txt muchly amusing === \b is now known as benonsoftware [19:17] grinn [19:17] HaHa, I think lotus managed to actually reprogram the device ID of his WMP600N! [19:20] whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please [19:22] oke [19:27] lotus [19:27] lotus [19:27] lotus [19:27] [20:20:50] whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please [19:28] but please use paste.ubuntu.com [19:28] :-P [19:28] lol [19:28] no LoL, serious. [19:28] OerHeks: im on another box here [19:28] oh [19:28] sell it, and return [19:28] holdon lemme go upstairs [19:31] OerHeks: paste me again please :p [19:31] [20:20:50] whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please [19:31] tnx [19:32] TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13200303/ [19:34] lotus|xenial: You're amazing! You've somehow managed to reprogram the PCI config space of that device (in other words, corrupt it ) :D [19:34] uh? [19:35] Hi everyone [19:35] hey pauljw [19:35] :) [19:35] TJ-: explain in english now :p [19:36] First look at this table which shows the layout of PCI device registers. Pay attention to the Device ID, Vendor ID, Subsystem ID and Subsytem Vendor ID fields [19:36] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_configuration_space#Standardized_registers [19:37] Now compare my device's lspci report to your own: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13199781/ [19:37] lets c [19:37] The block of hexadecimal data in those is the PCI config registers [19:38] TJ-: yes, but your device has the rt2800pci module loaded, mine not [19:38] TJ-: or doesnt that matter [19:38] If you look carefully you'll recognise the expected Vendor:Device ID at 00 (bytes are stored little-endian, so you have to reverse them). 14 18 01 06 is 1814:0601 [19:38] lotus|xenial: forget about the driver; that has ZERO to do with it [19:38] ok [19:39] BOTH our devices PCI registers report the CORRECT Vendor:Product ID [19:39] BUT your PC somehow translates that to "1014:0601" in the record which is what causes it to fail to be recognised [19:39] 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601] [19:39] yeah i see [19:39] so why does it do that? [19:39] 1014:0601 not 1814:0601 [19:40] Well, the most obvious cause is a glitch in the CPU's data bus, or in a memory module [19:40] TJ-: ram glitch? [19:40] I'd bet on the former since I can't imagine the exact same memory address being used every time for different OS releases. [19:41] So, somehow, the PCI config is initially read incorrectly but later, when we use lspci -xxx and force it to be read directly, we see the correct data [19:41] TJ-: do its not ubuntu's fault, but somewhere hardware/bios? [19:41] so [19:43] Looks that way; I'm wondering if it is some kind of PCI bus bug [19:44] TJ-: but the weird thing is, it all worked on trusty [19:44] I want to try some direct manipulation of the device to see if we can 'poke' it into waking up [19:44] TJ-: we fixxed this somehow with linux-firmware [19:44] 100% sure [19:44] Yeah, which is why I think it's a PCI Bus issue [19:44] The kernel is definitely misreading the device ID at boot time [19:44] ah [19:45] i also recently tested trusty usb again live, and card didnt show anymore [19:45] which is unlikely to be a device issue, but a PCI bus issue. It's obviously 'loosing' the 2nd nibble (4 bits) of the 1st byte, so instead of reading 0x18 (as we can see is actually there) it is reading 0x10 [19:46] We need to check the Extended PCI config space; let me check how to do that [19:46] ok [19:46] TJ-: can i pastebin some other boot logs somewhere? [19:47] "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" (4 x this time) [19:48] TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13200817/ [19:48] the extra x gets us the extended 4096 byte config space [19:49] Oh, the device doesn't have any extended - didn't realise they were that old! [19:49] lol [19:49] i refuse to throw away old hardware :p [19:50] right. thinking cap on. We know the config space registers are correct *now*. Can we influence the kernel though [19:50] TJ-: how about i test a cmos clear? [19:52] won't help [19:52] ok [19:52] Could you test it with a 15.10 *i386* live ISO please? [19:53] TJ-: i cam from 15.10 64bit [19:53] upgrade [19:53] I think my Chinese friend that hacks the PCI code has boo-booed :) [19:53] didnt work on wily [19:53] only trusty saw the card [19:53] Well, test an i386 Live ISO [19:53] kk [19:53] I think there's a bug in the amd64-specific code [19:54]