[04:29] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: welcome mate :p
[05:51] <Latrodectus> ty for the invite
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: the idea behind this, we all do support but never have a chance to discuss to each other
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: so here we are discussing, to make a better support also
[05:53] <Latrodectus> sweet
[05:53] <lotuspsychje> we also share latest ubuntu news
[05:53] <Latrodectus> interesting
[05:54] <Latrodectus> has the update/upgrade problem been solved for 15.10?
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: well in my opninion, there are many 15.04/15.10 issues so far
[05:55] <lotuspsychje> upgrade/screen/acpi issues
[05:55] <lotuspsychje> all depends on different system right Latrodectus
[05:55] <Latrodectus> yup
[05:55] <lotuspsychje> others have no issues
[05:56] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: but we notice alot of black screens/login loops
[05:56] <lotuspsychje> mostly by wrong drivers
[05:56] <Latrodectus> yup
[05:57] <Latrodectus> and then the person doesn't read the output of the update/upgrade and reboots...
[05:57] <lotuspsychje> yeah upgrading on non-lts is always tricky without backups
[05:57] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: im on trusty and also testing xenial
[05:57] <Latrodectus> yup, this is why i usually stick to lts
[05:57] <lotuspsychje> nice nice!
[05:58] <Latrodectus> though one thing that i found distasteful about ubuntu, was the suggested apps in unity and the inability to turn it off
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: you mean paying apps?
[05:59] <Latrodectus> yes
[05:59] <Latrodectus> but having them in the menu itself
[05:59] <Latrodectus> and no way to turn it off
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> ah, you can choose to turnoff internet hits in dash
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> !info unity-tweak-tool | Latrodectus can help tweak things
[06:00] <Latrodectus> interesting, no one told me about this
[06:00] <Latrodectus> so i just changed distro to xubuntu
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> oh also cool
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> well i rather used to unity now
[06:01] <Latrodectus> ya i run both lubuntu and xubuntu
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> thats for everyones choice
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> nicely
[06:02] <Latrodectus> unity seemed nice, but when i saw the resource usage i, and the paid apps, i changed to xubuntu
[06:02] <Latrodectus> *usage,
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> yeah i understand
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> i like unity's left bar ease
[06:02] <Latrodectus> true
[06:04] <lotuspsychje> xubuntu is nice n fast
[06:05] <Latrodectus> i need the speed because i'm planning to do some multi media production on it
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> nice, specificly what?
[06:07] <Latrodectus> music, animation, image, editing, maybe some video editing
[06:07] <Latrodectus> *image editing
[06:07] <lotuspsychje> nice!
[06:09] <Latrodectus> i think that linux has gotten to a level that you can begin to do post processing on it, i'm just gonna see how far i can go with it.
[06:09] <Latrodectus> plus i hate apple, and dislike windows
[06:09] <lotuspsychje> same here mate
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> i installed trusty on so many boxes
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> and try to spread the word :p
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> opensource is the future
[06:10] <Latrodectus> here's then thing that i tell the apple sheep: apple's whole busness model is to rip you off, by selling you the crappiest shit, for the most expensive price
[06:11] <Latrodectus> and for those windows fanboys: window's busness model is DLC
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> true
[06:12] <Latrodectus> though it's shifting to being a paid platform for three letter agencies
[06:12] <Latrodectus> like cortana really?
[06:12] <Latrodectus> you're gonna try to exfil info about your users, and then charge them for it?
[06:12] <Latrodectus> lol nope
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> its a $$$ world
[06:13] <Latrodectus> yup
[06:13] <Latrodectus> that's where linux flat out wins
[06:13] <Latrodectus> linux should take over the universe
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu made a big jump last years
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> i totaly agree
[06:14] <Latrodectus> and i see a couple of big jumps for linux in the future
[06:14] <Latrodectus> especially with big bussiness picking it up
[06:14] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[06:15] <Latrodectus> but you know what that means though?
[06:15] <Latrodectus> more viruses for linux
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> yes, just readed something yesterday
[06:15] <Latrodectus> oh link?
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> optirun virus for android,linux,windows,mac
[06:16] <lotuspsychje> hmmm not sure of the name
[06:17] <Latrodectus> that's okay, i know that viruses exsist for all platforms
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> alot of 0day rootkits out there
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> even for linux
[06:17] <Latrodectus> the only reason why linux and mac don't have big problems is because of the market share of windows
[06:18] <Latrodectus> like why write something that can only target 10% of the market when you can write something that will target 70%-80%
[06:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[06:19] <Latrodectus> the only thing that protects linux right now is how premissions are setup
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> and recent updates
[06:19] <Latrodectus> yes
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> to patch security holes
[06:20] <Latrodectus> i think that the default setting for security updates should be to do it immedatly when found
[06:20] <Latrodectus> and to not prompt the user
[06:20] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: http://www.viruss.eu/security-news/omnirat-on-the-loose-spywares-nibbling-android-with-a-taste-for-linux-mac-and-windows/
[06:20] <lotuspsychje> omnirat it was
[06:20] <Latrodectus> ty
[06:21] <Latrodectus> to be fare though 80% of android devices are insecure...
[06:21] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: well the user is still the boss of the system
[06:21] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: maybe even 99% lol
[06:21] <Latrodectus> yup, but security should not be left up to the sheep
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> that google app store is a malware nightmare
[06:22] <Latrodectus> google is a malware nightmare
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> i despite pc banking on phones and leak Oses
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> its a real nasty danger for our future
[06:23] <Latrodectus> yup
[06:23] <Latrodectus> banks should block mobile connections
[06:23] <Latrodectus> because they're not capabel of security
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> banks dont care, what users do
[06:23] <Latrodectus> but banks should care about loseing money
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> the sheeps loosing money all round the globe
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> they never loose a dime, insurances
[06:24] <Latrodectus> but they could pay less for insurance if they didn't have to pay out so much
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> its the ppl that loose big money
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> thats true
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> im sure that every bank have rootkits
[06:25] <Latrodectus> i know that banks like to rip people off, but they should be smart about their security
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> and remote hackers can follow every move
[06:25] <Latrodectus> i've gotten to a point that i don't trust any electronic device that's connected to the internet
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> the whole world is one big botnet
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> very true
[06:26] <Latrodectus> and then any device that ever touched the internet is tainted
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> your healthy paranoia mate
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> even offline boxes got usb infections
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> spreading around their intranet
[06:27] <Latrodectus> yup
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> anyway brekfast here Latrodectus tnx for joining us and feel free to add to favs
[06:27] <Latrodectus> ty for inviteing me, have a good day
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: you too :p
[07:34] <trumpyy> sup
[07:50] <Latrodectus> nm, getting tired
[07:50] <trumpyy> i know that feeling
[07:51] <Latrodectus> you know the feeling that you get from not blinking, while looking at a screen for hours on end
[07:52] <trumpyy> well i tend to blink every now and then, but yeah lol i know that feeling
[07:54] <Latrodectus> well i think that my eyes are about to fall out...
[08:07] <trumpyy> lol that sucks
[09:59] <lotus|xenial> morning to all
[10:32] <lotus|xenial> morning tj
[10:33] <TJ-> morning
[10:34] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: having issues loading a 4.3 kernel on xenial
[10:35] <lotus|xenial> says error on archive --install
[10:35] <lotus|xenial> after a sudo dpkg -i linux-headers-4.3.0-040300-generic_4.3.0-040300.201511020846_amd64.deb
[10:36] <TJ-> have the other related packages also been installed?
[10:37] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: this is what the guy asked me:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
[10:38] <lotus|xenial> no, just put that .deb in a test folder in /home
[10:38] <TJ-> To be frank, I'd ignore that for now. The later kernel isn't going to help. That device has been supported since 12.04 or even earlier.
[10:38] <lotus|xenial> thats what i thought
[10:38] <TJ-> That's just the standard response to kernel bug reports
[10:39] <lotus|xenial> should i just reply confirmed then
[10:39] <TJ-> If you can wait a day until I've got my WMP600N into a working Mobo here we can see what is expected, and compare with your system
[10:39] <lotus|xenial> ok mate
[10:39] <lotus|xenial> will do
[10:39] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:39] <lotus|xenial> lordieeeee
[10:39] <TJ-> wet and soggy morning :)
[10:39] <lotus|xenial> sunny here
[10:40] <TJ-> I've spent a happy hour converting the Arch iptables systemd service and default rule setting into a nicer Debianised modular format. I *like* systemd :)
[10:40] <lordievader> News reported yesterday was the hottest day since measurement started. 18C in november.
[10:41] <lotus|xenial> yeah lets hope for a cr4ppy winter
[10:41] <TJ-> lordievader: WMP600N has been supported about 10 years: see e.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/Linksys%20WMP600N
[10:41] <lordievader> My iptables systemd service simply calls a script which sets everything up (ipset & ip(6)tables)
[10:41] <lotus|xenial> lets c
[10:42] <lordievader> TJ-: That is for lotus|xenial I think ;)
[10:42] <lotus|xenial> karmic
[10:42] <TJ-> lordievader: same here; a single script that works for ipv4/6 and reads sets of default rules to apply from /usr/share/ and /etc/
[10:42] <TJ-> Grrr, tab complete!
[10:42] <lotus|xenial> and early morning
[10:43] <lordievader> Ipset is really nice :D
[10:43] <TJ-> lordievader: I'm going to get the script and service control added to the iptables package so we have standard support, regardless of UFW. It's much more important with IPv6 now becoming more widespread, else systems are left open
[10:44] <lordievader> Wasn't that the default Ubuntu policy, accept all?
[10:44] <TJ-> Yes, which has to change
[10:45] <lordievader> Couldn't agree more. Never understood why they didn't at least set the drop policy on the input table.
[10:45] <TJ-> It may be OK with IPv4 where most services are done outside the kernel, but with IPv6 so much is integrated into the protocol, especially with ICMPv6 RA, NS, and everything else
[10:46] <TJ-> but it is refreshing to be able to throw PNAT out the window and just route :)
[10:46] <lordievader> Perhaps that was the reasoning, "most boxes are behind nat we can allow input".
[10:48] <TJ-> Yes, precisely
[10:52] <lotus|xenial> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
[10:52] <lotus|xenial> oops
[10:52] <lotus|xenial> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/omnirat_malware_android_poc_mac_linux/
[10:53] <lordievader> lotus|xenial: Would the RT2800usb suffer the same problem?
[10:53] <lotus|xenial> lordievader: i think so
[10:54] <lordievader> Hmm, that would explain a thing or two.
[10:54] <lotus|xenial> lordievader: i had it working on trusty after fixing something with TJ- with linux-firmware
[10:54] <lotus|xenial> cant remember how exactly
[10:55] <lordievader> Must say I haven't really fully troubleshooted the issue yet.
[10:55] <lotus|xenial> anyway ill try to bug ancient bus to xenial again in early stage :p
[10:55] <lotus|xenial> bugs
[10:56] <lotus|xenial> here's my second: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1513801
[10:56]  * lordievader blames Unity :P
[10:56] <lotus|xenial> :p
[10:57] <lotus|xenial> yeah havent tested kubuntu on this card,ever
[10:57] <lotus|xenial> maybe i should
[10:58] <TJ-> OK, I must still be asleep! Just spent 10 minutes trying to debug an error in a bash shell script... then realised I was calling it with 'sh' as in "sh -x /path/to/script" - no wonder if failed!
[10:59] <lotus|xenial> :p
[10:59] <lotus|xenial> !coffee
[10:59] <lordievader> TJ-: More coffee!!
[10:59]  * lordievader slide TJ- a cup
[10:59] <lotus|xenial> cfhowletttttttttttttt
[10:59] <cfhowlett> hey bubba!
[11:00] <lotus|xenial> lol
[11:00] <lotus|xenial> how are things in beijing
[11:00] <cfhowlett> counting down.  I'm soon to relocate; Tokyo.
[11:00] <lotus|xenial> cfhowlett: for good?
[11:01] <lotus|xenial> i love japan
[11:01] <cfhowlett> well, for the length of the employment contract.  It'll be my first time.  Looking forward to it.
[11:01] <lotus|xenial> nice
[11:01] <lotus|xenial> eat alot of sushi for me
[11:02] <cfhowlett> yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah, no.  sake maybe?
[11:02] <lotus|xenial> of course
[11:02] <lotus|xenial> no sushi without sake
[11:02] <cfhowlett> :0
[11:07] <lotus|xenial> lol away
[11:07] <cfhowlett> hey, I was gentle.
[11:07] <lotus|xenial> and he did it!!
[11:08] <cfhowlett> :) that's a win
[11:16] <TJ-> Grrr, I'm getting annoyed. NM runs 2 private instances of dhclient when using both IPv4 and IPv6. when those processes write to the syslog they don't identify themselves. So, I have a message there and don't know which one is having difficulty!
[11:17] <lotus|xenial> realtime tail -f cant seperate them neither i presume?
[11:25] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: maybe this can help: http://serverfault.com/questions/556124/monitoring-ipv4-vs-ipv6-traffic
[11:34] <lotus|xenial> uh-oh
[11:34] <lotus|xenial> * pikaaaa (~ubuntu@115.246.94.209) has joined
[11:35] <lordievader> Known troll?
[11:36] <lotus|xenial> yes
[11:36] <lotus|xenial> he comes back with false info lordievader
[11:36] <lordievader> Do ops know about him?
[11:37] <lotus|xenial> daftykins added an op report, but not sure they was awake at this time
[11:37] <lotus|xenial> lordievader: he quoted TJ- last time to use for another user and wasnt relevant
[11:37] <lordievader> Probably just to look knowledgable.
[11:37] <lotus|xenial> yeah
[11:38] <lotus|xenial> yesss hes got in with ikonia lol
[11:38] <lotus|xenial> now its not gonna take long lol
[11:40] <lotus|xenial> yayyy
[11:40] <lotus|xenial> lol
[11:40] <lotus|xenial> he got himself banned
[11:42] <lordievader> I'm not surprised :P
[11:42] <lotus|xenial> lordievader: all ok with your new ssd?
[11:43] <lordievader> Yeah, it is working nicely.
[11:43] <lotus|xenial> nice!
[11:43] <lotus|xenial> ok dinnertime here guys
[11:43] <lotus|xenial> bbl
[11:43] <lotus|xenial> if anyone see daftykins tell him pikachu got banned
[11:45] <lordievader> Dinner? It is the afternoon?
[12:41] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[12:44] <lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
[12:45] <BluesKaj> Hey lordievader
[12:46] <lordievader> How are you doing today?
[12:49] <BluesKaj> fine here, lordievader, and you?
[12:49] <lordievader> Doing good here
[12:52] <BluesKaj> heavy frost last night, but supposed to be +10 or so this afternoon, gotta finish raking the leaves before the rain later this week
[12:54] <lordievader> It is around 17 today, quite warm for november.
[13:14] <BluesKaj> yes , we had 20 last weeks for a few days
[13:15] <BluesKaj> err last week
[18:27] <daftykins> yay no more pikachu! :) (i'm keeping with the pokemon nickname, it's funnier)
[18:35] <EriC^^> lol
[18:35] <EriC^^> daftykins: \o
[18:36] <daftykins> hallo!
[18:36] <daftykins> how are we all this relaxed sunday night?
[18:36] <EriC^^> good good, you?
[18:37] <daftykins> yeah not bad thanks :)
[18:37] <EriC^^> :)
[18:37] <daftykins> looks like a chance call and meet today has got me some work \o/
[18:37] <EriC^^> awesome
[18:37] <daftykins> helping to properly network cable an electrician friends client's house
[18:37] <EriC^^> i bought the tv today
[18:37] <daftykins> ah yeah? happy with it?
[18:38] <daftykins> which did you settle on? :D
[18:38] <EriC^^> they didn't have 1920x1080 though, the guy said they dont carry it for 32" tv's there
[18:38] <EriC^^> i got a 1366x768 one
[18:38] <daftykins> ah ok
[18:39] <daftykins> my 2006 Sony was that res - and my laptop is :>
[18:39] <EriC^^> i ended up getting a samsung, i wanted an lg, but the seat wont work cause of the funky leg design
[18:39] <EriC^^> but i'm happy with the samsung, it's nice
[18:40] <daftykins> excellent :>
[18:40] <daftykins> was the plan just to watch TV, or to connect your laptop/PC into it too?
[18:40] <EriC^^> man they have some crazy shit there
[18:40] <EriC^^> like curved huge tv's and stuff
[18:41] <EriC^^> i was like whoa O.o
[18:41] <EriC^^> nah, it's just for watching tv
[18:42] <OerHeks> 1366x768 tvs are cheap, i want a full hd 200 mhz
[18:45] <EriC^^> why are the new ones curved anyways?
[18:47] <daftykins> some kinda gimmick
[18:47] <daftykins> the idea is that our eyes prefer a curved display
[18:47] <daftykins> i've not seen one in person, but someone i know got one and they say they don't even notice the difference in use
[18:47] <EriC^^> it looks pretty cool i'd say
[18:48] <EriC^^> i want to go buy a hdmi cable and lots of neat pc stuff
[18:50] <OerHeks> such intel compute-stick too?
[18:51] <EriC^^> what's that?
[18:52] <OerHeks> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/07/02/intel-compute-stick-now-comes-with-ubuntu/
[18:53] <OerHeks> plugin hdmi, attach bt keyboard and go
[18:54] <EriC^^> wow that is nuts!
[18:54] <daftykins> what's funny is the Linux ones i've seen have way lower specs compared to the Windows one XD
[18:55] <EriC^^> lol
[18:55] <OerHeks> one sidenote: it is a huge stick hanging on your hdmi ..
[18:56] <EriC^^> yeah that's true
[18:56] <EriC^^> i want to maybe get a hdmi cable for my room's tv -> pc i had one but it broke a while ago, for the ps3 too
[18:57] <EriC^^> and maybe some random usb's maybe
[18:58] <daftykins> :D
[18:58] <daftykins> the little FireTV stick things amazon sell, they at least come with a short extension in case your HDMI sockets are too close together
[19:00] <EriC^^> it's pretty nuts that they fit a quad core on that thing
[19:00] <OerHeks> That would be preferrable.
[19:00] <EriC^^> a usb pc, heh
[19:00] <EriC^^> with microsd card slot
[19:01] <EriC^^> hmm it has a power input?
[19:01] <EriC^^> and 2 usb slots? 1 for key 1 for mouse?
[19:03] <EriC^^> oh ok 1 usb slot
[19:04] <EriC^^> and wireless keyboard and mouse
[19:05] <EriC^^> i think it uses it's own power supply though
[19:06] <daftykins> yeah no power from HDMI, the amazon things for example would use what is basically a smartphone charger
[19:06] <EriC^^> i wonder if you get the windows one could you format and install ubuntu on it?
[19:07] <EriC^^> they gave ubuntu 1gb memory and 8gb space, windows is 2gb and 32gb space
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[19:08] <daftykins> hey sir! funny news about our buddy pikachu i saw there :>
[19:08] <EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins and EriC^^
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah got him right where i wanted :p
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: started to make scene while ikonia was on lol
[19:09] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've just fired up a PC with the WMP600N in
[19:10] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: nice, wich ubuntu version?
[19:10] <TJ-> 12.04
[19:10] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: hows that working out
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> brb
[19:12] <daftykins> :) http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/08/%23ubuntu-ops.txt muchly amusing
[19:17] <OerHeks> grinn
[19:17] <TJ-> HaHa, I think lotus managed to actually reprogram the device ID of his WMP600N!
[19:20] <TJ-> whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please
[19:22] <OerHeks> oke
[19:27] <OerHeks> lotus
[19:27] <OerHeks> lotus
[19:27] <OerHeks> lotus
[19:27] <OerHeks> [20:20:50] <TJ-> whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please
[19:28] <OerHeks> but please use paste.ubuntu.com
[19:28] <OerHeks> :-P
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:28] <OerHeks> no LoL, serious.
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: im on another box here
[19:28] <OerHeks> oh
[19:28] <OerHeks> sell it, and return
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> holdon lemme go upstairs
[19:31] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: paste me again please :p
[19:31] <OerHeks> [20:20:50] <TJ-> whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please
[19:31] <lotus|xenial> tnx
[19:32] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13200303/
[19:34] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: You're amazing! You've somehow managed to reprogram the PCI config space of that device (in other words, corrupt it ) :D
[19:34] <lotus|xenial> uh?
[19:35] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[19:35] <lotus|xenial> hey pauljw
[19:35] <pauljw> :)
[19:35] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: explain in english now :p
[19:36] <TJ-> First look at this table which shows the layout of PCI device registers. Pay attention to the Device ID, Vendor ID, Subsystem ID and Subsytem Vendor ID fields
[19:36] <TJ-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_configuration_space#Standardized_registers
[19:37] <TJ-> Now compare my device's lspci report to your own: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13199781/
[19:37] <lotus|xenial> lets c
[19:37] <TJ-> The block of hexadecimal data in those is the PCI config registers
[19:38] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes, but your device has the rt2800pci module loaded, mine not
[19:38] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: or doesnt that matter
[19:38] <TJ-> If you look carefully you'll recognise the expected Vendor:Device ID at 00 (bytes are stored little-endian, so you have to reverse them). 14 18 01 06 is 1814:0601
[19:38] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: forget about the driver; that has ZERO to do with it
[19:38] <lotus|xenial> ok
[19:39] <TJ-> BOTH our devices PCI registers report the CORRECT Vendor:Product ID
[19:39] <TJ-> BUT your PC somehow translates that to "1014:0601" in the record which is what causes it to fail to be recognised
[19:39] <TJ-> 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601]
[19:39] <lotus|xenial> yeah i see
[19:39] <lotus|xenial> so why does it do that?
[19:39] <TJ-> 1014:0601 not 1814:0601
[19:40] <TJ-> Well, the most obvious cause is a glitch in the CPU's data bus, or in a memory module
[19:40] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: ram glitch?
[19:40] <TJ-> I'd bet on the former since I can't imagine the exact same memory address being used every time for different OS releases.
[19:41] <TJ-> So, somehow, the PCI config is initially read incorrectly but later, when we use lspci -xxx and force it to be read directly, we see the correct data
[19:41] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: do its not ubuntu's fault, but somewhere hardware/bios?
[19:41] <lotus|xenial> so
[19:43] <TJ-> Looks that way; I'm wondering if it is some kind of PCI bus bug
[19:44] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: but the weird thing is, it all worked on trusty
[19:44] <TJ-> I want to try some direct manipulation of the device to see if we can 'poke' it into waking up
[19:44] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: we fixxed this somehow with linux-firmware
[19:44] <lotus|xenial> 100% sure
[19:44] <TJ-> Yeah, which is why I think it's a PCI Bus issue
[19:44] <TJ-> The kernel is definitely misreading the device ID at boot time
[19:44] <lotus|xenial> ah
[19:45] <lotus|xenial> i also recently tested trusty usb again live, and card didnt show anymore
[19:45] <TJ-> which is unlikely to be a device issue, but a PCI bus issue. It's obviously 'loosing' the 2nd nibble (4 bits) of the 1st byte, so instead of reading 0x18 (as we can see is actually there) it is reading 0x10
[19:46] <TJ-> We need to check the Extended PCI config space; let me check how to do that
[19:46] <lotus|xenial> ok
[19:46] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: can i pastebin some other boot logs somewhere?
[19:47] <TJ->  "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" (4 x this time)
[19:48] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13200817/
[19:48] <TJ-> the extra x gets us the extended 4096 byte config space
[19:49] <TJ-> Oh, the device doesn't have any extended - didn't realise they were that old!
[19:49] <lotus|xenial> lol
[19:49] <lotus|xenial> i refuse to throw away old hardware :p
[19:50] <TJ-> right. thinking cap on. We know the config space registers are correct *now*. Can we influence the kernel though
[19:50] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: how about i test a cmos clear?
[19:52] <TJ-> won't help
[19:52] <lotus|xenial> ok
[19:52] <TJ-> Could you test it with a 15.10 *i386* live ISO please?
[19:53] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: i cam from 15.10 64bit
[19:53] <lotus|xenial> upgrade
[19:53] <TJ-> I think my Chinese friend that hacks the PCI code has boo-booed :)
[19:53] <lotus|xenial> didnt work on wily
[19:53] <lotus|xenial> only trusty saw the card
[19:53] <TJ-> Well, test an i386 Live ISO
[19:53] <lotus|xenial> kk
[19:53] <TJ-> I think there's a bug in the amd64-specific code
[19:54] <TJ-> Unfortunately I can't test a 64-bit install on the PC here its only a 32-bit CPU
[19:55] <TJ-> I also noticed your bug report doesn't have a dmesg attached, which it really needs
[19:55] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: ok ill add it
[19:55]  * OerHeks grabs a 64 bit duo core with 2 gb from the wastebin
[19:57] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: added: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
[19:59] <lotus|xenial> downloading wily32
[20:00] <lotus|xenial> might take while for getting it on stick, as xenial lil buggy startup creator
[20:01] <TJ-> I think the crux of the issue is: "acpi PNP0A03:00: fail to add MMCONFIG information, can't access extended PCI configuration space under this bridge." ... MMCONFIG is the keyword there
[20:02] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: acpi bug would make more sense, as trusty hadnt the issue
[20:03] <TJ-> might be worth trying a boot with acpi=off - it'll probably break lots of other things, but if you can do it in Recovery mode to get to a root shell so you can run "lspci -nn" and check the Vendor ID that'd be enough
[20:04] <lotus|xenial> ok ill try after wily 32 live
[20:05] <TJ-> Also, separately, try "pci=check_enable_amd_mmconf"
[20:05] <lotus|xenial> what does that do
[20:06] <TJ-> And another, which tells the kernel to try a different method to access the PCI config space: "pci=conf2" (the default is "pci=conf1" )
[20:06] <TJ-> check_enable_amd_mmconf [X86] check for and enable
[20:06] <TJ->                                 properly configured MMIO access to PCI
[20:06] <TJ->                                 config space on AMD family 10h CPU
[20:06] <lotus|xenial> ok
[20:07] <daftykins> silly question, but that card coming up as IBM isn't down to it being pulled from a more business system at all is it? very odd idea i know, but thought i'd shout
[20:07] <daftykins> i think one of you even suggested it earlier on
[20:08] <TJ-> [    0.084000] smpboot: CPU0: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (fam: 0f, model: 04, stepping: 08)
[20:08] <TJ-> daftykins: No, it's actually misreading the Vendor ID.
[20:08] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: we investigated and base was IBM and vendor linksys
[20:09] <daftykins> ah ok
[20:09] <TJ-> The card actual has stored in its PCI config registers: 1814:0601 BUT at PCI bus probe time it reads it as 1014:0601 - dropping the 2nd nibble
[20:09] <lotus|xenial> what a weird situation lol
[20:09] <daftykins> weird! same in other systems too?
[20:09] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: does precise got your card by default?
[20:09] <daftykins> i guess lotus wouldn't dare put Windows near it ;)
[20:09] <TJ-> I've seen this kind of thing in the distant past but not recently
[20:09] <lotus|xenial> lol dualboot you wish!!
[20:11] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: or did you have to play with firmwares
[20:15] <lotus|xenial> first wily usb attempt create failed
[20:18] <TJ-> firmware doesn't enter into this; that is loaded by the driver, and the driver is loaded when the kernel tells udevd a new device has been added. udev finds the module to load by the PCI Vendor:Device ID, and as the kernel is passing the wrong one, it fails.
[20:20] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: but on trusty lspci -nn saw the right chipset
[20:20] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: and after adding firmware right, card was working
[20:20] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: right. So like I said, a bug in the recent kernel's PCI bus probe logic
[20:20] <lotus|xenial> ic
[20:20] <TJ-> I think I've found a way to force the kernel to see it correctly whilst the system is running
[20:21] <TJ-> can you "pastebinit <( ls -l /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0c.0/ )"
[20:21] <lotus|xenial> sure
[20:22] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13201737/
[20:23] <TJ-> Try this: "echo 1 | sudo dd of=/sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0c.0/rescan"  - that tells the device to rescan the hardware. It *may* help. Then, to check, do "lspci -nn" and see if the Vendor:Device ID are now correctly showing 1814:0601
[20:25] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13201788/
[20:25] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: no: 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601]
[20:25] <TJ-> OK, let's try a more serious one then
[20:26] <TJ-> Try this: "echo 1 | sudo dd of=/sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0c.0/reset"
[20:27] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: gives me a>_
[20:27] <lotus|xenial> blinking
[20:27] <lotus|xenial> cursor
[20:27] <TJ-> OK, that's forced a reset - did 'dd' report and complete, or is it hung?
[20:27] <lotus|xenial> hung on blink cursor yea
[20:28] <TJ-> Open a new terminal, check you've got control
[20:28] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: same, ibm device
[20:29] <TJ-> Let me check the kernel source; I'm not sure if '1' is the correct value to write. It ought to be since those things are usually booleans and 1 == true
[20:32] <lotus|xenial> 3rd time wily usb creating grrr
[20:34] <TJ-> Yes, 1 is the correct value
[20:34] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: whats next :p
[20:39] <TJ-> Try all those kernel command-line parameters I gave you, one at a time, with Recovery mode/root shell to check
[20:40] <lotus|xenial> ok trying acpi=off first
[20:40] <TJ-> I'm reading the source. It's drivers/pci/probe.c::pci_scan_device() which calls pci_bus_read_dev_vendor_id()
[20:41] <lotus|xenial> brb reboot with acpi=off
[20:41] <TJ-> OK
[20:44] <lotus|xenial> acpi=off no luck
[20:44] <lotus|xenial> next going for pci=check_enable_amd_mmconf
[20:45] <lotus|xenial> reboot
[20:45] <TJ-> ... which calls pci_bus_read_dev_vendor_id() which calls pci_bus_read_config_dword() which is created by a preprocessor macro in drivers/pci/access.c PCI_OP_READ(dword, u32, 4) which calls (struct pci_bus*bus)->ops->read(bus, devfn, pos, len, &data)
[20:47] <lotus|xenial> pci= failed
[20:48] <lotus|xenial> next is "pci=conf2
[20:48] <lotus|xenial> reboot
[20:56] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: conf2 locked me into an initram busybox
[20:56] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: cant boot anymore
[20:58] <TJ-> OK, so we know method2 doesn't work. reboot it normally and try "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -nn -H1 -s 00:0c.0 ; sudo  sudo lspci -nn -A dump -s 00:0c.0 ; sudo lspci -nn -H1 -M )"
[20:58] <TJ-> That will try several different direct hardware probe methods
[20:59] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: gonna b for tomorrow mate
[21:00] <TJ-> OK, keep a note of it
[21:00] <TJ-> At least we have a line on what the problem is now
[21:01] <lotuspsychje> ok
[21:01] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: tnx for supporting so far
[21:02] <TJ-> I'll try to test mine in a later, 64-bit, kernel tonight
[21:02] <lotuspsychje> kk
[21:02] <lotuspsychje> nite nite
[21:02] <pauljw> :)
[22:19] <OerHeks> i hear that claim before, no memtest86 in grubmenu ..
[22:19] <daftykins> mmm, can't be a thing of EFI installs right?
[22:20] <OerHeks> maybe, http://i.stack.imgur.com/1aKFc.jpg , then 'advanced options' ??
[22:20] <daftykins> yep, guy claimed he just saw his older kernels there
[22:22] <TJ-> UEFI can't do memtest86+, or couldn't some time ago, because UEFI was 'in the way' (using memory so can't test it)
[22:23] <TJ-> Got an interesting PC here - just booted it with Rescue and its kernel 2.4.21, dated 2003, and SUSE Linux. Interesting experience!
[22:23] <daftykins> ah that'll explain why http://termbin.com/weir has no entry :)
[22:23] <daftykins> TJ-: :D
[22:23] <daftykins> TJ-: keep a count of commands or tools that aren't there ;)
[22:23] <OerHeks> oh oke, learned something today
[22:24] <TJ-> It's doing rather well when it agrees to boot. I think one of the RAID controllers has an issue
[22:24] <daftykins> <3 RAID :)
[22:25] <TJ-> About to boot it from a DVD with 15.10 on.. that'll shock it
[22:26] <daftykins> "what are you doing to meeeeee!?"
[22:27] <daftykins> we're getting a lot of these guys with expensive gaming laptops trying to dualboot ubuntu with Windows, and it really not working well, these days
[22:30] <TJ-> I forgot how DVD trays like to snag my fingers!
[22:30] <OerHeks> eject && eject -t
[22:31] <daftykins> :D
[22:31] <OerHeks> oh, does not work, -t, on laptops without motorised caddy
[22:31] <daftykins> were you guys ever fans of pushing the trays in? i always used the buttons for safety :>
[22:31] <OerHeks> stupid button is under the tray, design-failure nr 1
[22:31] <TJ-> oh grrr! it's got 2 physical CPUs but they're 32-bit! Back to the DVD-writer!
[22:32] <OerHeks> TJ-, hop on your bicycle, and grab a 64 mobo here
[22:32] <OerHeks> plenty of that stuff ..
[22:35] <daftykins> :D
[22:35] <TJ-> the BIOS doesn't support USB boot which surprised me
[22:48] <daftykins> does it sound safe for me to tell ksft to install libc6* on his 14.04.3 install? it's to get 32-bit libs for steam
[22:48] <daftykins> oh, ^libc6.*
[22:48] <TJ-> it sounds like it needs the multilibs. I'd be tempted to run 'ldd' against the steam executable, to see which libraries it claims to have lost
[22:49] <TJ-> Because if it worked, and now doesn't, that points to disk corruption
[22:49] <daftykins> it did only report the one missing at least in its' error, libc.so.6
[22:49] <TJ-> Might be worth also doing "sudo ldconfig" in case its just the library cache broken
[22:50] <daftykins> ty :) interesting he's not getting a power off anymore since updating the BIOS
[22:50] <OerHeks> he did already, this afternoon with ikonia
[22:51] <daftykins> huge jump from v2.xx to v3.xx on the Lenovo site
[22:51] <TJ-> I'd 'strace' it too, see what is going on
[22:52] <OerHeks> if ksft did install a prop driver for his intel/nvidia machine, steam should work.
[22:53] <TJ-> how it can 'miss' libc I don't know; almost nothing can function without that
[22:53] <TJ-> And everything else is working, so that makes me wonder if its a libc shipped with steam
[22:54] <OerHeks> that is checked too, still wonder ..
[23:01] <TJ-> what release is ksft using? there shouldn't be apt errors.  Is it 14.10 by any chance?
[23:02] <TJ-> i asked for 'apt-cache policy steam' to identify where the steam package is coming from
[23:02] <daftykins> nah 14.04.3 - he just meant he was re-running steam thinking my dist-upgrade would have fixed it
[23:02] <daftykins> that sounds good, i'll see if i can persuade him to run it too :)
[23:02] <daftykins> i did wonder if ubuntu repo or PPA based
[23:02] <TJ-> right, or gdebi, or debian!
[23:02] <daftykins> ah he got you it
[23:02] <TJ-> I've found similar bugs with debian
[23:02] <OerHeks> or steam in wine :-D
[23:03] <daftykins> 'tis official
[23:03] <TJ-> dependencies: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/steam
[23:04] <TJ-> libc6 (>= 2.12)
[23:05] <OerHeks> so he might need  libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386
[23:07] <TJ-> OerHeks: if the package is installed by apt, all the dependencies should be pulled in. He reported some errors with apt-get though, so yes, we need a pastebin of those
[23:07] <daftykins> my history of commands would have involved "purge nvidia* " but that won't match when nvidia is in the middle right? so i probably didn't remove it
[23:08] <TJ-> No, this is a dynamic linker issue
[23:09] <TJ-> I'm wondering if he's got an older version of libc6 installed under /usr/local/ or similar
[23:12] <daftykins> when he first came in with the issue it sounded like steam ran until the fiddling commenced :D
[23:15] <TJ-> Hmmm... /lib32/libc.so.6 and /libx32/libc.so.6
[23:15] <daftykins> O_O
[23:19] <TJ-> that script does a load of weird stuff to figure out which executable to run
[23:21] <daftykins> i don't think the steam client is too clever :) a while back they had a bit of code that erases / as root instead of /some/path/to/a/game/ if you told it to delete a game :)
[23:28] <TJ-> It looks crap already! Looks like we lost ksft, not seen a response anyhow
[23:28] <TJ-> HA!
[23:29] <daftykins> ruh roh
[23:30] <TJ-> let's see if <my username> gets translated!
[23:30] <OerHeks> still not installed libc6:386 ... is he fooling us?
[23:31] <TJ-> It's installed
[23:31] <TJ-> I'd laugh if ksft's real username were actually "<my username>" and the <> and space were causing the script to die
[23:31] <daftykins> XD
[23:32] <OerHeks> uh oh
[23:32] <TJ-> urghh, it's messing with the LIBRARY_PATHs
[23:33] <daftykins> not fond of that me_xy guy demanding help to fix Windows boot, because he's using a Linux program to do it XD
[23:33] <daftykins> "this means it's your problem!"