[00:06] <daftykins> time for an early night i think
[00:06] <daftykins> TJ-: go team fix-ksft ;)
[00:06] <pauljw> gnite daftykins
[00:06] <TJ-> ha, he's gone quiet now
[00:07] <TJ-> I might sneak off too :)
[00:07] <daftykins> must be excitedly gaming ;)
[00:07] <daftykins> pauljw: oh hello! and goodbye! :D
[00:07] <daftykins> OerHeks: \o
[00:07] <pauljw> :)
[00:09] <TJ-> gee whiz, another user-created mess :) HOW do they do it? I'm supposed to be dangerous but I've never been able to mess systems up like our users manage
[00:10] <Bashing-om> TJ-: IRT ksft :) cool sluething !
[00:12] <TJ-> just follow the trail... logs are everything
[01:47] <pauljw> gnite all
[02:50] <OerHeks> "when i changed kernals" ... duhhh
[02:50] <TJ-> 14.04 > 15.10 I think speedy means
[02:51] <OerHeks> good luck man, i am off to bed :-)
[02:59] <TJ-> night :)
[05:23] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:28] <TJ-> morning!
[05:28] <TJ-> I need to go to bed but been caught up
[05:31] <lotuspsychje> nite nite
[05:58] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I fired up the WMP600N with a 32-bit 15.10 install; it worked fine. So if you can test with 32-bit too so we can know if you have a system problem, or just the amd64 architecture, that'll narrow things down. The system here I tested with only has 32-bit CPUs fitted so I can't test on that with amd64. I'll try to dig out a 64-bit in the week, but all my PCs are racked up so I need to put
[05:58] <TJ-> some parts together to do it.
[08:45] <lordievader> Good morning.
[12:00] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:20] <daftykins> heya \o
[12:27] <BluesKaj> hi daftykins
[12:30] <daftykins> well i'll be, turns out cp does work just fine for ISOs
[12:30] <daftykins> sudo cp /path/to/iso /dev/sdX
[12:30] <daftykins> a quick "sync" after to be sure, and hey presto
[14:14] <BluesKaj> daftykins, bootable?
[14:14] <daftykins> yep, tested it
[14:15] <BluesKaj> cool
[14:15] <daftykins> the partitions read as really weird on it though, from both fdisk and parted
[14:16] <BluesKaj> weird , how?
[14:18] <daftykins> i've not got a host up anymore to pastebin
[14:18] <daftykins> gotta nip out to the banks :) i'll give it a whirl later
[15:48] <lotus|xenial> good afternoon to all
[15:49] <TJ-> Hiho :)
[15:49] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: wily 32bit dint fix, same IBM card+ id
[15:49] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: OK, so now it's a hardware issue. What's the make/model. Or just "dmesg | grep DMI"
[15:49] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: tryed few bios stuff again, no success either
[15:50] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: /KV8-MAX3 (VIA K8T800-8237), BIOS 6.00 PG 06/29/2004
[15:50] <TJ-> I suspect a motherboard fault in the PCI chipset
[15:50] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: that would make sense
[15:52] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: do you have a web link to the manufacturers pages for that mobo? My search-fu is failing me
[15:54] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://www.cnet.com/products/abit-kv8-pro-3rd-eye-motherboard-atx-socket-754-k8t800-pro/specs/
[15:55] <lotus|xenial> or
[15:55] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://abit.ws/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php@pMODEL_NAME=KV8-MAX3&fMTYPE=Socket%20754&pPRODINFO=BIOS
[15:56] <TJ-> thanks, got it. Can get the manual now
[16:03] <TJ-> hmmm, all their links to manuals are broken
[16:03] <lotus|xenial> yeah abit is bit broken overall
[16:04] <TJ-> like their mobo :p
[16:04] <lotus|xenial> lol
[16:09] <TJ-> Can you tell me *exactly* what other PCI adapters are plugged into the mobo, and *which* PCI slot each is in? PCI5 is the outside edge of the mobo, PCI1 is nearest the AGP slot. On these older boards slots have to share resources such as IRQs and it was a common issue needing to play about with slot positions to get a group of PCI adapters to work
[16:10] <TJ-> Also, is the GPU using the AGP slot?
[16:11] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: only 1 pci slot used for the wifi card
[16:11] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes its an old ati x800 agp
[16:11] <TJ-> which slot is the WMP600N in currently?
[16:11] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: its the second last pci slot down
[16:11] <lotus|xenial> not sure wich irq
[16:12] <lotus|xenial> but ive tested 3 pcie slots already
[16:12] <lotus|xenial> pci sorry
[16:13] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: lets continue another time mate i have to bbl
[16:13] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: just wanna come say wily 32bit didnt work :p
[16:13] <lotus|xenial> cu laterz
[16:37] <TJ-> whois is this cap, it's giving out bad suggestions. Anyone recognise ?
[16:40] <daftykins> must be a new name for our buddy pikachu
[16:40] <daftykins> aka pikapi :)
[16:41] <daftykins> i don't 100% think so, cap seems able to actually construct a sentence
[16:43] <TJ-> Yeah, but throwing out things that show a lack of awareness
[16:44] <TJ-> These are the more dangerous types. They sound authoratitive and people follow their instructions
[16:45] <daftykins> *nod*
[16:46] <daftykins> could be worth logging a warning in #ubuntu-ops like i did with pikapi
[16:46] <TJ-> Wait and see a bit more yet; I think my warning earlier put a shot across the bows
[16:47] <TJ-> i might need some backup; looks like I'm contradicting it again :)
[16:51] <daftykins> backup?
[16:51] <daftykins> back shortly
[17:25] <EriC^^> man im so lazy i want to go get that hdmi cable keep saying i'll go tomorrow :>
[17:26] <daftykins> tut tut!
[17:26] <daftykins> as soon as you join IRC, all bets are off for achieving anything that day i find :)
[17:26] <EriC^^> lol
[17:27] <MonkeyDust> EriC^^  sometimes i copy/paste 'sudo apt-get update' fom a tutorial, because i'm too lazy to type it
[17:28] <EriC^^> i feel like buying a cool camera too
[17:28] <EriC^^> i keep seeing these really awesome sunset views
[17:29] <EriC^^> bunch of trees next to eachother on a mountain, dark green, and sun is showing behind them and you can see between the trees
[17:29] <EriC^^> MonkeyDust: lol
[17:32] <OerHeks> MonkeyDust, i am so lazy,i pressarrowup untill i find it
[17:32] <OerHeks> expanded bash history to 5000 lines
[17:33] <daftykins> MonkeyDust: hey you can increase your efficiency by using "sudo apt update" instead :D
[17:34] <daftykins> very quirky advice from 'cap' indeed.
[17:40] <daftykins> koffel refuses to move off 12.04 - i don't get it.
[17:59] <MonkeyDust> daftykins  true that
[18:00] <MonkeyDust> is xenial out yet?
[18:00] <daftykins> an alpha?
[18:01] <daftykins> #ubuntu+1 topic should say
[18:08] <daftykins> i don't understand why anyone would prefer dd over clonezilla, why sit there and wait for all the zeroes to go over for the blank space? :)
[18:08] <OerHeks> especially when he does not want to make mistakes indeed
[18:08] <EriC^^> how does dd know it's free space?
[18:08] <EriC^^> i mean clonezilla?
[18:09] <MonkeyDust> i don't get why anyone should use elementary, apart from cosmetics
[18:13] <EriC^^> clonezilla is pretty advanced and stuff, but i think the guy has it all wrong
[18:14] <EriC^^> i dont think he can image a whole drive, and then dd it to sdb1
[18:14] <EriC^^> he expects to have what? /dev/sdb1.1 /dev/sdb1.2 etc.. ?
[18:18] <daftykins> yeah i think you're right there - i've no idea how clonezilla does it, but it is able to identify actually used space and only write that
[18:18] <daftykins> works great for drive cloning when i do SSD upgrades
[18:20] <EriC^^> cool
[18:20] <daftykins> check out the weird fdisk output i got from using "cp file.iso /dev/sdx" earlier - termbin.com/hhva
[18:21] <daftykins> £8 for https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyjytcbwy2mmps8/IMG_20151109_181205.jpg?dl=0 :D
[18:22] <EriC^^> you mean the empty stuff is weird?
[18:23] <daftykins> nah the sdb1p1 and sdb1p2
[18:23] <EriC^^> oh
[18:23] <OerHeks> daftykins, id you 'sync' after that?
[18:23] <daftykins> actually the first empty line is kinda odd too :>
[18:23] <EriC^^> yeah that is odd
[18:23] <daftykins> OerHeks: yep
[18:24] <daftykins> although i didn't use sudo - i wonder if that's important
[18:24] <OerHeks> ehm...yes
[18:24] <daftykins> 8D ah well i'm booted from it on my laptop right now and it works fine
[18:25] <EriC^^> is it an sd card?
[18:25] <EriC^^> i've seen that naming convention with the hybrid weird ass laptop stuff
[18:25] <daftykins> nah the above linked cheap flash drives
[18:33] <TJ-> Looks fine to me
[18:35] <EriC^^> maybe it's cause the disk identifiers are the same?
[18:36] <TJ-> What's the issue with it?
[18:37] <EriC^^> nothing just /dev/sdb1 is odd
[18:38] <TJ-> no; /dev/sdb declares /dev/sdb1 to be type 0 which is a 'whole disk' so the system them looks at /dev/sdb1 (which starts at the same sector 0 as its parent), so sees the same partition table, and creates the partition maps p1 p2 on the 'whole' disk /dev/sdb1
[18:38] <TJ-> because partition 1 starts at sector 0, it contains the partition table itself
[18:39] <OerHeks> maybe you did need sudo?
[18:43] <daftykins> TJ-: nah it works fine, i'd never seen a drive displayed that way was all
[18:43] <daftykins> drat my SSD firmware ISO is a CD image, iso9660 data
[18:50] <daftykins> http://uk.crucial.com/wcsstore/CrucialSAS/firmware/MX100/MU02/MX100_MU02_BOOTABLE_ALL_CAP.zip
[18:50] <daftykins> any thoughts on making that boot from a USB flash drive instead of a CD?
[18:57] <TJ-> It's because the image is hybrid, has a GPT, but the hybrid MBR is broken. p1 is a protection for the entire disk (what we call a protective MBR) but then there's p2 which defines the EFI-SP (inside p1). A correct hybrid would have 3 partitions: p1 0 to 2038759, p2 2038769 to 2043303, and p3 2043304 to 2060287
[18:58] <daftykins> ah i see! probably just been too long since i used fdisk
[18:58] <EriC^^> daftykins: how fast is a ssd compared to a hdd?
[18:59] <daftykins> oh my, they destroy them :>
[18:59] <EriC^^> how fast does it copy stuff?
[18:59] <EriC^^> like 90ish mb/sec?
[18:59] <daftykins> sustained reads from a mechanical HDD? maybe 120MB/sec with a modern one? SSD: it'll saturate SATA 6Gbps ports and do like 450MB/sec read
[19:00] <daftykins> er lets see if i copy SSD to SSD...
[19:00] <EriC^^> cool!
[19:00] <TJ-> Forget sustained, most work on a PC is random I/O ... and that is where SSD wins big. As long as the SSD is connected to a fast interface
[19:00] <daftykins> ja
[19:00] <TJ-> latency is minimial
[19:01] <daftykins> but still i just threw a kubuntu ISO from one SSD onto another, it took about 4 seconds for the 1.3GB file... the windows file copy dialogue said 600MB/sec then fell off to 100MB/sec toward the end
[19:02] <TJ-> Yes, I don't disagree, I was just focusing on the main areas where they win. We rarely spend all our time moving bif files around
[19:02] <TJ-> s/bif/big/
[19:02] <daftykins> EriC^^: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hwi16hw4eusq0r/ssd%20copy.png?dl=0
[19:02] <daftykins> TJ-: yep, just being juvenile and racing my drives ;)
[19:03] <TJ-> there's also the in-memory cache to consider... that can absorb most ISO images
[19:03] <TJ-> :D
[19:03] <daftykins> and drive controller cache could mask some too
[19:04] <daftykins> ignore my query about the above ISO, i was being silly
[19:04] <EriC^^> the fdisk?
[19:05] <daftykins> nah my SSD firmware .zip
[19:05] <TJ-> I think I may have got to the bottom of lotus' wrong-PCI-ID for that WMP600N device. I think the mobo has a glitch. The manual shows there are some advanced timing settings for the PCI bus masters, and on those old mobos the PCI/AGP slots have to share interrupts too. I think that's at the root of it. Here's the IRQ combination chart from te manual - brought back memories of figuring out best
[19:05] <EriC^^> oh ok
[19:05] <TJ-> permutations with servers having lots of adapters plugged in! https://iam.tj/projects/misc/kv8-pci-irq.jpg
[19:05]  * EriC^^ wants an ssd now
[19:05] <daftykins> EriC^^: :D they are the single best advancement for PCs i'd say in... ever
[19:07] <EriC^^> fire sliced bread ssd
[19:07] <EriC^^> :D
[19:07] <TJ-> no... PCIe was that :p
[19:07] <TJ-> switching from a contended bus design to multiple dedicated lanes
[19:07] <daftykins> ok you raise a fair point :D
[19:08] <daftykins> i did get so excited i was about ready to drop £700+ on a skylake build with NVMe SSD
[19:08] <TJ-> hehehehe ... or maybe it was UEFI :D
[19:10] <daftykins> TJ-: a telco engineer i know did a line test for me today and said a line reported it was 6km long XD
[19:11] <TJ-> Ouch!
[19:12] <daftykins> glad i caught him, he retires in a month :(
[19:12] <TJ-> Start burrowing your fibre :)
[19:12] <daftykins> then i won't have my contact anymore!
[19:15] <MonkeyDust> tweet: i just sneezed
[19:16] <TJ-> sneeze: i just tweeted
[19:17] <daftykins> thought i'd investigate 'nc' - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13210489/
[19:17] <daftykins> that was a rabbit hole ;)
[19:47] <EriC^^> can winxp read gpt fine?
[19:50] <EriC^^> TJ-: ?
[19:53] <daftykins> hrmm, not sure on that one
[19:53] <daftykins> sneaking suspicion maybe 64-bit only
[19:53] <daftykins> XP 64-bit was quite rare though
[19:57] <EriC^^> any cool xbox or ps3 games you'd recommend?
[19:57] <EriC^^> i might buy a few tomorrow when i get a hdmi cable
[20:00] <TJ-> XP on GPT? not usually
[20:01] <TJ-> EriC^^: see http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/dm_convert_mbr_disk.mspx?mfr=true
[20:02] <EriC^^> does it seem better to use a backup disk as mbr not gpt?
[20:06] <BluesKaj> for XP I think so
[20:06] <daftykins> in server 2003 you could use GPT as storage but not boot from it iirc, so XP 64-bit can probably use a GPT disk as storage too
[20:06] <daftykins> vanilla 32-bit XP - probably nothing
[20:07] <BluesKaj> W7 didn't even play too nice with gpt on my laptop
[20:08] <BluesKaj> so I went with msdos and legacy
[20:08] <daftykins> hmm i've not had issues
[20:08] <daftykins> my 10TB RAID is storage to a win7 install
[20:09] <BluesKaj> you obviously never delete movies ;-)
[20:12] <daftykins> only the bad ones!
[20:14] <EriC^^> did you see the martian?
[20:15] <BluesKaj> not on bluray yet
[20:15] <EriC^^> markao seems like troll material
[20:17] <daftykins> didn't get around to it, they were booked up in the local cinema :( went to see "The Walk" there instead though, about that ~1970s high wire walker :D
[20:31] <EriC^^> cool
[20:32] <EriC^^> did you like it?
[20:37] <daftykins> yeah enjoyed it
[20:37] <EriC^^> cool
[20:37] <daftykins> amusingly when my friend and i walked in, we were the only 2 there!
[20:37] <EriC^^> lol yeah
[20:37] <EriC^^> happens sometimes
[20:38] <EriC^^> once me and my friend were alone in a theater and so we took off our shoes
[20:38] <EriC^^> he hid my shoes somewhere and after the movie i had to look around for it
[20:39] <EriC^^> lol
[20:39] <daftykins> XD
[20:39] <EriC^^> we might have been drunk i think
[20:39] <BluesKaj> The Martian should be out on bluray in Jan. I live 70Km from the nearest movie theater, so we watch them later
[20:39] <EriC^^> bluray resolution is 4k?
[20:40] <BluesKaj> normal is 1080p
[20:40] <EriC^^> cool
[20:42] <BluesKaj> my TV isn't capable of 4k anyway ...there isn't a lot of source material in that format yet
[20:46] <daftykins> yeah you'd be hard pushed to even get a TV with the right inputs as well as being 4K
[20:46] <daftykins> plus the 'next big thing' is high dynamic range, allegedly - so that'll be coming
[20:46] <EriC^^> cool
[20:46] <EriC^^> i've never tried a bluray movie
[20:47] <BluesKaj> alsao my gpu can'tr handle that res , it's just a 50buck nvidia 8400gs
[20:47] <EriC^^> we have dvd's here for like $1 / movie
[20:47] <EriC^^> normal dvd's not bluray
[20:47] <daftykins> ouch :D that's an old card indeed
[20:48] <BluesKaj> it still works well
[20:48] <daftykins> i like my high bitrate 1080p films with DTS 5.1 :D
[20:49] <BluesKaj> yup, I use the spdif out on the soundcard with vlc into my audio receiver's coax DAC input
[20:51] <daftykins> i have a little HTPC i used to use, intel atom + nvidia ion 1 graphics to make use of VDPAU, decoding the HD formats
[20:52] <daftykins> the other day though i picked up an Amazon FireTV (little black box) with HDMI and 100Mb LAN for £50 delivered :D
[20:52] <daftykins> runs Kodi really nicely as an HTPC
[20:53] <BluesKaj> I used an m-audio soundcad for a while, but it needed pulse audio since it's driver wasn't fully written for website flash, so i reverted to the intel audio which supports alsa much better then most other audio chip drivers
[20:53] <BluesKaj> then=than
[21:33] <EriC^^> this is pretty nuts http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/534986/project-loon/
[21:33] <EriC^^> helium balloons in the stratosphere to provide internet access to the 4.3 billion people who dont have it, by google
[21:36] <daftykins> and don't need it
[21:36] <daftykins> :D
[21:37] <TJ-> I love the idea... better than satellites, but I have images of jumbo jets dodging the balloons rather like German bombers dodging 'blimps' (barrage balloons) over 1940s London
[21:38] <EriC^^> lol
[21:38]  * daftykins starts learning to fly
[21:39] <TJ-> Even with LEO, satellite latency is quite high, so 'Loon' has the potential to make a lot of realtime stuff possible
[21:39] <TJ-> Plus the costs are a lot lower, time to deploy is orders of magnitude less, so operational returns don't need to be so high and therefore end-user cost is low
[21:44] <TJ-> I saw a hint earlier we may end up dropping initramfs-tools in favour of dracut (RedHat's tool). Apparently Debian have/are switching
[21:54] <daftykins> spug's query is very niche
[22:02] <TJ-> It's a valid one, though. I've dabbled with enabling wifi in the initrd but never put aside the time to figure it out
[22:02] <TJ-> makes sense when you need to do an iscsi rootfs mount and there's no wired Ethernet
[22:15] <daftykins> i can't imagine when that comes up :D
[22:19] <TJ-> roaming is a typical scenario. it would also be extremely useful when crossing borders with a PC, now that the customs and immigration in so many countries think they have free reign to search laptops and demand cryptographic keys to unlock them
[22:47] <TJ-> About time! "Facebook Inc. lost a fight with Belgium’s privacy watchdog after a court ordered it to stop storing personal data from people who don’t have an account with the social network."
[22:59] <OerHeks> When i want to use some gouvernment pages, they want me to login with facebook, complaining aout neighbours who do not take care of themselves, or survey for our council :-D
[23:00] <OerHeks> silly fools, i wanted to write them .. but i had to login with facvebook to do so
[23:03] <OerHeks> and this one, my bank uses Omniture-tracker, now Adobe Analytics, and i cannot disable it. all my data goes to Obama.
[23:05] <TJ-> I refuse point-blank to use such systems.
[23:06] <OerHeks> If i reject that, i have to walk to the bank and do all payments manually. But 4 out of 5 offices are closed.
[23:06] <TJ-> The UK government recently changed the way our electoral register is compiled from being the responsiblity of the head-of-household to each individual, and to make it possible to register online using various Government ID documents as proof of identity.
[23:07] <TJ-> I looked at the site and it wasn't even hosted on a gov.uk domain, and the TLS X509 certificate wasn't issued to the UK government but to some American company (that had 'won' the contract to do this stuff).
[23:09] <OerHeks> i guess that is why the USA economy is growing, and ours is goind down.
[23:09] <TJ-> I refused to use it so they sent me docs in the mail, but they required me to send colour copies of my ID docs to be held by my local council. I told them to stuff it, no way I'm putting all my most important data in the hands of a bunch of amateurs where it'll be freely accessible in some filing cabinet or online scan. Currently having 'discussions' with them over the entire security of data issue
[23:15] <OerHeks> wait .. US Court finds @NSAGov spying violated Americans' rights. http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/NSA_klayman_20151109.pdf
[23:15] <TJ-> No, it found the NSA violated the rights of a Verizon user who is a firm of lawyers :)
[23:16] <OerHeks> Spying on us is legal.
[23:16] <TJ-> I followed that case; it has gone on for a long while. Several plaintiffs were dismissed from the case for 'lack f standing' - not being able to prove NSA did snoop on their communications
[23:18] <OerHeks> That part is nasty, how to prove they snoop on you.
[23:22] <TJ-> Yeah, terrible that the US Government pulled that one on its own citizens, but that's beauracracies
[23:35] <daftykins> :(
[23:35] <OerHeks> i knew it .. https://www.intellihub.com/vegetarians-beware-plants-dont-like-to-be-eaten-scientists-say/
[23:36] <TJ-> LOL country folks have known that since the dawn of time... why do you think we're so fit... chasing the carrots and potatoes to get them to market!
[23:36] <daftykins> TJ-: does jrolland's sound like it's SMART disk status time? you know how much i love smartctl ;)
[23:37] <TJ-> daftykins: Go for it. I didn't see what the original issue was so I'm flying blind right now
[23:38] <daftykins> ah i think i spotted something about on reboot he got a failed boot, but the partitions are there on a chroot
[23:47] <daftykins> yay for my instincts being right, that's one wonky disk
[23:49] <TJ-> yeah, I thought the user was having issues with the Live ISO, because he was on about the /cow mount
[23:50] <daftykins> *nod* that threw me too
[23:51] <TJ-> I've been popping in and out here; working on things here. Going to have a mug of tea to wind down and then get to bed. Was up until 7am today, grr! I really need to break the habit
[23:52] <daftykins> erk! yep early bed for me tonight, though no tasks for tomorrow as of yet
[23:52] <daftykins> i was just watching a really neat youtube video on analog vs. digital audio
[23:53] <TJ-> that brings back memories; digital compression is what allowed me to retire early
[23:53] <daftykins> oooh
[23:53] <daftykins> i think this chap worked on ogg originally, he's explaining why sample rates in PCM above 44.1kHz are pretty pointless but why they're used in recording etc
[23:55] <TJ-> yeah, sample rate dictates the Nyquist frequency, and 44.1kHz means you've got everything including stuff beyond the range of human hearing
[23:56] <TJ-> But if you're going to resample recordings, you want as high a sample rate as possible to avoid quantization errors, and artefacts
[23:57] <EriC^^> i think i've seen that nyquist thing in a control course in uni
[23:57] <TJ-> ideally whenever you resample, it needs to be on a integer fraction so you just ditch every X samples, rather than have to pick the 'closest' or synthesise it using interpolation
[23:58] <TJ-> sample at 44.1kHz means  the highest frequency captured is 1/2 that, because you require a minimum of 2 points on te complete sine wave to reconstruct the waveform
[23:58] <daftykins> EriC^^: :D
[23:59] <daftykins> see i always thought it was double because of stereo ¬_¬
[23:59] <daftykins> 22.05kHz per channel or something XD