bluesabrenighty flocculant 00:36
bluesabreknome: poke00:39
bluesabredkessel: updated the packaging for the mousepad recipe, now we just need a new commit on http://git.xfce.org/apps/mousepad/ to get new builds02:15
dkesselthanks bluesabre :)04:19
flocculantUnit193: do you use (or have) the apt-offline doobiwotsit? could you look at the updates to the docs page I have done for that :)10:14
knomea wild ochosi appears11:05
Unit193flocculant: I briefly looked over it.14:09
flocculantUnit193: cheers - just wanted to make sure it makes sense 14:19
Unit193...the apt-offline doobiwotsit... didn't. :P14:19
flocculantbluesabre: so parole not playing films using clutter here 16:09
Noskcajbluesabre, Should just running ./configure --enable-maintainer-mode work?19:12
Noskcaj(for mousepad)19:12
ochosievening folks21:46
flocculantochosi: evening :)21:46
knomehello ochosi 21:46
ochosiso what's clickin?21:47
flocculantmost of my joints 21:47
flocculantochosi: so you found the poll thread yesterday - don't forget to do more than read it :D21:48
ochosiyeah, for some reason i dont receive ML mails anymore21:48
ochosino idea what's up with that21:48
ochosihad no time to check it out last night21:48
ochosibut will now21:49
flocculantthat's odd then 21:49
ochosiyeah, no clue, haven't changed anything in the subscription or the email filters21:49
Unit193Or knome removed you to mess with you.21:51
ochosiboth is possible or even probable21:51
knomeit's the baby who is (literally) messing with ochosi 21:51
ochosigee, did anyone warn those guys on the ML in terms of spamming us with their "votes"?21:52
Unit193Did you read te first one?21:53
knomeochosi, didn't you see my reply to the thread?21:53
flocculantochosi: I was silly enough to think that a centre justified line in bold would suffice21:53
ochosiflocculant: sorry, my emails are plaintext ;)21:54
flocculantbut it was still line #1 I hope :D21:54
knomeflocculant, who reads the first line?21:54
ochosiright right, i'm still catching up on the thread and i started from the bottom here (for some odd reason): https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-November/thread.html21:54
Unit193I used a text client, it was very clear too. :P21:54
knomewell i guess it's become a habit for you to work with the bottom21:54
flocculantha ha 21:55
ochosiknome: yeah yeah, i'm just waiting for you... ;)21:56
knomei know21:56
knomebut i'll use this non-overlapping time as well as i can21:56
ochosican't argue with that21:56
knomejust tell me if i'm going too far21:57
ochosisure thing :)21:57
knomeand i'll tell your baby she can stop crying because you have picked up the crybaby hat of the family21:57
knomeyou weren't expecting THAT21:57
ochosii wasn't expecting THAT21:58
flocculantha ha ha 21:58
ochosiok, more serious note22:00
ochosianyone up for fosdem in february?22:00
ochosii know it's early to ask22:00
flocculantnot me 22:00
ochosibut then again, asking later might even make less sense22:00
knomesilly brussels22:00
ochosiwe still have time to gather some funding22:00
knomethe fosdem website says 30/31 january22:00
knomeso i don't think anybody is going there in february22:01
ochosiok ok22:01
ochosiso that then22:01
knomei don't think so, but if enough people from the team will attend, and i will be desperate enough avoiding the poop cannons, maybe22:01
Unit193Not me either.22:02
knomealso, i wonder why "beer" is mentioned as the first thing int he fosdem header.22:02
ochosibecause brussels - belgium - beer?22:04
Unit193Well considering we're talking about beer, vomit, and poop in here I suppose saying I'm rebuilding the xubuntu-core isos isn't that bad of spam. :P22:05
ochosimeh, Unit193 is sooo on-topic22:05
Unit193Nono, it's spam, 'community' stuff and all.22:06
knomethe reason why we talk about poop and vomit is to make Unit193 more comfortable in this room22:06
ochosiflocculant: ever heard anything from that jenkins testing initiative again?22:06
flocculantochosi: it's not dead 22:06
ochosioh, that's comforting news22:06
flocculantit does work mostly for ubuntu, there's issues getting it to work on flavours from the last update22:07
flocculantthe guy who's been working on it I've not seen for a few weeks22:07
Unit193Also, everyone vote for which IRCC member looks best?22:07
flocculantochosi: oh hang on 22:08
flocculant<flocculant> balloons: at this stage I would like to at least see that the image boots to a desktop 22:08
flocculantballoons> right right. They were keen to see the same thing22:08
flocculantthat was during one of the uos sessions apparently 22:09
flocculantI do at least check that images boot properly once a day 22:09
ochosiwow, that's definitely something we should automate22:09
flocculantthat's what they're trying to do 22:10
flocculantand just checking the manifest file size gives a clue that it's not gone horribly wrong too 22:10
flocculantdoesn't obviously prove it boots - but if the file is too small then it's not going to :)22:11
ochosii haven't ever gotten into this myself, but wasn't there that ubuntu autopilot python app that helped with app-testing?22:11
* ochosi feels a bit silly for asking this22:12
flocculantochosi: pretty sure that's what I'm talking about22:12
Unit193Thought so, but only GTK3.22:12
flocculantochosi: there are 2 basic types - iso and packages22:12
flocculantpackages hates gtk222:12
ochosithing is, in my current dayjob i work with jenkins a lot22:12
flocculantwhich is why we never got far 22:12
ochosii wonder why it doesn't work with gtk222:12
flocculantochosi: I promise never to tell balloons22:13
ochosiflocculant: thank you.22:13
flocculantochosi: it doesn't introspect properly - whatever that means 22:13
ochosioh that22:13
ochosiright, i guess there's nothing we can do about that, other than port xfce to gtk322:13
Unit193Which'll be a sad day.22:13
flocculantand frankly - I don't mind that we don't get package testing - it's never going to be what people can do 22:14
flocculantso - if we can kinda forget images as a daily issue I'd be happier22:14
ochosiUnit193: why? just keep using 4.1222:14
ochosinot sure, routine tests with apps can all be automated22:15
ochosifrom what i learned, the LO guys even do some automated click-testing22:15
ochosithat works with *any* toolkit that accepts mouse-input22:15
flocculantochosi: yes but we're finding more stuff with not routine use :)22:16
ochosiright, but then you can throw out all testcases ;)22:16
ochosiunless you decide to only write weird non-standard ones22:16
knomeochosi, i believe we could do that, but then it'd rely on mouse position instead of knowing that we are activating the right element22:16
flocculantok - but then we have to hope people report things 22:17
ochosiknome: if it's running in a fixed resolution automated environment that22:17
ochosi's no problem22:17
knomedon't we already have to hope for that even if they are running the predefined tests?22:17
ochosiflocculant: don't we have to hope that either way? :)22:17
flocculantknome: of course22:17
flocculantochosi: ^^22:17
knomeochosi, yeah, that's not the main problem - but what if some popup doesn't appear, or for some reason, the UI is off?22:17
ochosiknome: the UI is off..?22:18
flocculantbut - at least we're asking people to test something AND saying report to the tracker anyway 22:18
ochosiknome: if a popup doesn't appear, that's a bug, so the click-test found one. yay.22:18
flocculantnot that we're getting much 22:18
knomeochosi, an icon in a button is too large -> puts off all other buttons by X pixels?22:18
knomeochosi, and sure, it's finding bugs then, but meh22:18
ochosiknome: sounds like a bug to me!22:18
knomeochosi, if you ever change the UI, then you have to rewrite the test22:18
knomeochosi, but not if the test relies on gtk element ids22:19
knomeand i guess figuring out if something went wrong is harder with the non-id stuff too22:19
ochosiwell yes, i only mentioned the click tests as a last resort for classic "humans-only" things22:19
ochosias an example of: even this can be automated22:19
ochosinot in the sense of: let's do all tests like that!22:19
knomebesides, automated tests aren't exploratory either, they only test predefined scenarios too22:20
knomeand most of the time start with a clean state22:21
flocculantwhich is why upgrade tests work 22:22
ochosiso they only are supposed to work in well-defined environments22:22
flocculanttest should really say - add this bunch of random ppa's to the mix, make sure you have a prop graphics driver in use, fiddle with as many things as you can - then test it :D22:23
flocculantanyway - I'm off - night all :)22:24
ochosinight flocculant!22:25
knomekrytarik, do we even need the language name list?22:46
knomekrytarik, i don't think it's used by docbook internally, and we don't really refer to those entities manually either22:46
krytarikYep, that's the list of native language names.22:46
krytarikFor the translation links, that is.22:46
knomethat looks like a good list22:48
krytarik(For all other: http://paste.openstack.org/show/Zv2HRFVBuHzAEfhCtvjD/ )22:49
krytarik* others22:49
knomewhen can we expect to see a MP?22:50
krytarikProbably best to merge the current one first, and then I'll incorporate all the recent changes into mine.22:51
krytarikThat is, I'll be trying to include them, and when further changes occur while I'm doing it, that'd be bad. :P22:53
krytarikBtw, there are minor fixes for validation too, but not sure I should specifically list it. :P23:01
knomekrytarik, where's the "current stuff"?23:01
knomenot seeing in https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+activereviews23:02
krytarikWell, I see one there :P - https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/updates/+merge/27732923:02
knomeme too23:03
krytarikI mean, you could merge it after mine too, but then you'd need to take care of the changed ENTITY's at the top of the XMLs, I guess.23:09
krytarikBecause it'd probably revert it.23:09
Unit193Hrm, well is my old pre-bump all covered in the contributor docs now?  Can I rm it?23:13
knomeUnit193, bump to new version numbers?23:14
Unit193Well not as explictly, so I guess I'll hold on to it.23:14
Unit193And does the contributor docs really need to be !English?  It's not like we'd really be able to work with any contributors that don't speak English, and the mailing lists require it.23:17
knomei've been thinking that too23:17
Unit193knome: domain/pre-bump.html23:18
krytarikWell, I think it's nice to offer the option to translate it anyway.23:18
knomeUnit193, sigh, stop sending cryptic messages :P23:18
Unit193I'm trying to not spam that stupid ubuntulog.23:19
Unit193krytarik: Sure, but at the cost of having people put effort into translating it..23:19
knomeone thing to consider now that XSD is there is if we want ANY translations for that23:21
knomeit's sameish with licenses23:21
knomekrytarik, ^ note that, we don't want to translate the CC license, so there's some reason to keep shipped-docs23:22
krytarikknome: I solved that though.23:22
knomewhat about the strategy document?23:22
knomehow do you solve that?23:22
krytarikAlso, people forgot to update that file.23:22
knomemaybe ;)23:22
krytarikIf it's a separate XML, sure.23:22
knomei agree that life would be easier with that23:23
knomeof course it's a separate xml file23:23
krytarikThen \o/23:23
knomeso how do you solve that?23:24
knomea file that tells which files NOT to translate?23:24
krytarikNope, just move it to 'libs-common'.23:24
* knome facepalms23:24
knomei don't think that can be the answer for everything23:24
knomeit's NOT a common thing23:24
krytarikWell, we could move anywhere you want - just not leave it in the main docs dir.23:25
knomei'd actually rather have it there :]23:25
krytarikOh, and yes, it's a common thing - between the C docs and the translations.23:27
krytarikJust not the most appropriate place maybe.23:27
krytarik"libs...", that is.23:27
knomewell, yeah, kind of...23:28
knomei would be happy with a file that listed files excluded from translations23:28
knomeof course that's not ideal either, but hey...23:28
knomethat file could be in libs-common23:28
knomei don't think we will have the problem that there's a file with the same name in both docs and we want to translate the other but not the other :P23:29
krytarikAnd for the CC license, also shared between the two doc variants.23:29
knomethat's fine where it is23:29
krytarikFor XMLs specific to only *one* of the doc variants, I guess both the easiest and most transparent way to do it would be to create a subdir within the main docs dir for them.23:37
krytarikThat way we don't have to maintain and parse a lists file for them.23:38
krytarik* list23:38
knomei wonder if there could be any way to add a docbook attribute or something that told the script creating the pot file to not include strings in that file23:39
krytarikThat'd be one for *you* then, yep. :P23:40
krytarikEither way, that doesn't affect my current changes.23:41
knomewell i don't think there is a way23:42
knomexml2po is very simple23:42
knomekrytarik, flocculant's merge is done, ready to take your MP23:50
krytarikUgh. :D23:50
krytarikI'll work on it tomorrow.23:50
krytarikBecause I'll have to merge quite some files manually.23:50

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