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elimisteveHey all, I'm getting a new laptop and I'm wondering 2 things:06:04
elimisteve1. Which version of Ubuntu should I use for developing Ubuntu Phone apps?06:05
elimisteve(I understand that it used to matter more but the SDK is now, or will soon, come bundled with what it needs, independent of the OS version you're developing in)06:05
elimisteve2. Can I develop Ubuntu Phone apps just fine on Xubuntu?06:06
elimisteveI like to save RAM :-)06:06
elimistevepopey: which version of which Ubuntu flavor do you and other Ubuntu Phone devs run?06:10
elimisteveam I safe running Xubuntu, or will something be missing?06:11
elimisteveExperimenting with Unity 8, to be able to run converged apps on my desktop, would be amazing, if it's stable enough for everyday use06:11
elimistevehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC sounds like an awesome way to go, hmm...06:13
RAOFelimisteve: You can develop Ubuntu Phone apps wherever you want.06:16
RAOFelimisteve: Basically just need QtCreator, which'll work wherever.06:16
dholbachgood morning07:50
zzarrgood morning07:51
zzarrI'm exited for tomorrows release of OTA-8 :D07:52
elimisteveRAOF: thanks. What about running Phone apps on the desktop? I know that not all the same APIs are there, but for some apps, it should work. Do you know if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC is the best way to do that?07:57
lotuspsychjezzarr: me too :p07:57
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JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Home-Made Bread Day! 😃10:08
* mcphail is quite annoyed that his breadmaker makes better bread than he can make by hand10:13
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mcphailAre we expecting OTA-8 for the bq tomorrow, or will it only be meizu and nexus?12:06
hasselmm/me silently hopes of bluetooth fixes12:10
jibelmcphail, according to sil2100 landing team email, expect something tomorrow or Thursday12:10
mcphailjibel: thanks12:12
mcphailhasselmm: don't think bluetooth is changing until OTA9 at the earliest12:12
jibelhasselmm, yeah, improvements will be in OTA9 with the release of bluez512:14
sil2100This should land pretty soon, considering it will pass final QA12:14
hasselmmjibel: oh! cool. is there a way i can help with testing those changes early?12:14
hasselmmreally need the bq to work reliable with my car's head unit12:15
hasselmmno need to get stopped by police officers for fiddling with the phone :D12:15
mcphailhasselmm: yes - I've been waiting for this, too. Hope bluez5 makes a difference as my car can't see my phone at all12:17
hasselmmactually contribute my 10% edu time to help fixing bt12:17
hasselmmmcphail: for me it works perfectly for the very first time after (power cycling the phone? some random period of time? moon phase? after that it stops.)12:18
mcphailhasselmm: doesn't work at all for me. Occasionally my phone sees my car, but it never connects12:20
mcphailhasselmm: If you could fix it, I would be very happy :)12:21
sloIs there any work on getting a Sim Toolkit UI?12:38
cwayne1hm,  my app is held up for a warning "Found VCS files in package", but there's no .git or .bzr or anything in the click...12:51
jibelhasselmm, if really you want to help you can test rc-proposed once the new BT stack is in. But be aware that it is a non stable build and not recommended for normal usage since it may break, have regressions and you can lose your data.12:52
hasselmmjibel: guess i can just backup the full image, with all data, before putting rc-proposed on it?12:54
jibelhasselmm, yes, it is not necessarily trivial to do but it is possible to do that indeed12:55
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jgdxseb128, wily upgrade went very well. Thank you13:34
seb128jgdx, hey, good to read ;-)13:35
rbasakI have dbus-daemon using 100% CPU making the phone UI unusable. But ssh is absolutely fine. Any debugging tips that would help a bug report?14:13
rbasakThis is a regular problem on my phone, and I have it in the act.14:13
rbasakAquaris 4.514:13
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seb128rbasak, try to dbus-monitor to see if/what is spamming it14:24
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rbasakseb128: I've logged dbus-monitor output for both system and session buses but I don't see anything obvious.14:54
rbasakseb128: I'm not sure what's normal though. It did seem to me that it was using 100% CPU even during periods when dbus-monitor output was relatively quiet.14:54
seb128rbasak, :-(14:55
seb128I've had issues like that14:55
seb128there is at least a n-m spam issue, but I found it weird because usually it's not that many messages14:55
seb128pmcgowan might know if that's something still looked at14:55
seb128and I know mterry was trying to investigate similar issues14:56
mterryYeah, dbus-daemon can seemingly get stuck processing a backlog of messages, even if dbus-monitor is quiet (I think)14:56
pmcgowanrbasak, awe is on the case for the dbus traffic, some fixes in the works14:57
mterryawe has been crushing that bug lately14:57
seb128because I still see it here as well14:57
pmcgowanits a plethora of matching rules and leaks14:57
aweseb128, it's not a NM spam issue14:57
aweit's too many bad clients14:57
seb128awe, k, it was how people originally described it14:58
seb128awe, is there a bug with the current status/things that have been figured out?14:58
awebasically location-services and Qt add match rules for every single NM access point object ever created14:58
aweand never clean them up again14:58
seb128rather than making you rewrite on IRC things that are available in a place that can be read14:58
awe...and someone relaxed the per process limit on match rules from 512 to 5k in vivid14:59
awedo the math14:59
seb128that seems like something that has potential for creating issue14:59
seb128glad somebody figured it out!14:59
seb128kudos to whoever found the root issue14:59
seb128beer from me at the next $event15:00
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1480877 in location-service (Ubuntu RTM) "Access points' "PropertiesChanged" dbus signals freeze UI on mobile devices" [High,In progress]15:00
aweand https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/location-service/+bug/1480877/comments/6515:00
aweseb128, it's bad because any of our system processes that use QNetwork inherit a backend NM bearer plugin that creates these signal watches15:02
aweso it effects unity8, maliit-server, sync, ...15:02
aweand gets worse the longer WiFi is continually running15:02
seb128well at least it's an understood issue and fixing the root cause should solve it15:03
seb128I like that better than a random statement of "dbus doesn't handle load"15:03
aweseb128, me too15:03
rbasakseb128, mterry, awe, pmcgowan: thanks! That sounds like my issue. It makes my phone unusable after a day or two without rebooting. Thank you for working on it.15:10
rbasakI wonder if Unity/Mir shouldn't hang the UI when dbus-daemon is slow though? Or does it rely too heavily on it to decouple?15:11
awerbasak, yw15:11
awerbasak, the problem is that the bus gets clobbered by all these rules15:11
awewhich in turn effects every process that attaches to the system bus15:12
aweand every message passed thru that bus15:12
rbasakawe: ah - UI interaction needs to go through the bus itself? That makes sense.15:12
aweso unfortunately the only way to decouple is to stop the rules spamming in the first place15:12
awewe're working on it15:12
awewe have a proposed fix in location-services ( which had the same bug, different impl )15:13
aweand are working on the Qt fix as we speak15:13
rbasakAppreciated. Thanks again!15:13
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ulalahello, does anyone know if wifi tether for mako is in the works? I can't find anything in launchpad - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools - assuming I'm looking in the right place16:55
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mterryjdstrand_, poke about phone admin passwords?  I was just told by patriciadavila that there was a request for separate (longer) admin passwords on the phone for sudo use (separate from lockscreen passwords)17:01
mterryjdstrand_, curious if that was from you or if you know about it17:02
jdstrand_mterry: we have always hated pin as sudo. I'm not sure where this request if coming from. tyhicks, do you? ^17:24
jdstrand_s/if coming/is coming/17:24
cachio_pitti, there?17:31
tyhicksmterry, jdstrand_: I don't know where that request is coming from but we (security team) fully support the idea of separating the lockscreen PIN from the admin password17:32
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mterryjdstrand_, tyhicks: OK...  Hm.  Well it's a design problem, but not unsolvable.  I will try to find out where the request is coming from though17:33
mterrymzanetti, ^17:34
tyhicksmterry: yeah, I completely understand that could be confusing for users to have two seperate passwords (a lockscreen PIN and a strong login password)17:36
tyhicksmterry: however, it is also a requirement for user data encryption17:36
mterrytyhicks, that they not use a pin as a sudo password?17:37
mterrytyhicks, but if they used a passphrase, would it be OK if the lockscreen/sudo passwords were the same?17:37
tyhicksmterry: that a PIN not be used for wrapping the user data encryption key17:37
tyhicksmterry: yes, if they use a passphrase, that passphrase can be used for the lockscreen and sudo17:38
mterrytyhicks, OK makes sense17:38
FahdIs there a way to install ubuntu touch on my sony z2 d5602 phone???17:41
Fahdis there anyone here?17:44
mterryFahd, I don't know about that phone.  wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install might have pointers for non-typical devices17:48
Fahdok,  i'll check it17:48
studio_i need some help with updating an krillin-device (bq E4.5) to 15.10 from 15.04 (r26) without hanging in the boot-screen "bq - powered by ubuntu". can someone help?18:00
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studio_after an hardware reset to  15.04 (r26) with the mtk tools and an "ubuntu-device-flash ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu-developer --bootstrap --recovery-image /home/user/Downloads/recovery-krillin.img" the device is still hanging in the boot screen. same is with "ubuntu-device-flash ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu --bootstrap --recovery-image /home/user/Downl18:04
studio_oads/recovery-krillin.img". did i missed something?18:04
studio_ok, the boot-screen "bq - powered by ubuntu" can be used as a flashlight, but i do not think it is a feature ..., isn't it?18:12
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studio_is someone here?18:23
studio_come on, is this "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Channels" outdated?18:24
dobeynobody is here18:25
dobeyyou should not use devel-proposed18:26
dobeyuse rc-proposed instead18:26
studio_ok, last try before i restore the bq E4.5 to Android 5.0 ... i restored the bq E 4.5 to 15.04 (r26), will now try directly "ubuntu-device-flash ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu --bootstrap --recovery-image /home/user/Downloads/recovery-krillin.img" ...18:36
dobeyi just told you18:38
dobeydon't use devel-proposed. it's known to be broken right now18:38
dobeydon't come in here and make threats about flashing some other OS onto your phone. it's very rude.18:38
jibelstgraber, hi, I de-duplicated bug 151697118:39
ubot5bug 1516971 in Canonical System Image "devel-proposed mako 350 - android lxc container fails to start" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151697118:39
stgraberjibel: thanks18:39
studio_dobey, it's not rude, to tell someone how to upgrade from 15.04 to 15.10, it is just a hint ...18:43
dobeystudio_: devel-proposed is not 15.10. it is the latest development version of ubuntu, which is now xenial, and it doesn't work18:44
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dobeystudio_: yes, it is rude to attempt to use threats to coerce people into answering you18:44
studio_dobey, is this "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Channels" wrong?18:45
dobeyno. at the time the "(currently ubuntu/wily)" was added, it was wily. wily has since been release and a new ubuntu development cycle is underway18:45
dobeyso what?18:46
dobey"Automatically built images from the latest devel series."18:46
dobeythat is correct18:46
studio_so how can i try wily on the bq?18:46
dobeythere are no wily phone images for the bq18:46
dobeyif you want to try the newest features on the phone, then use rc-proposed18:47
studio_and how can i install "ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu-developer" or "ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu" on my bq?18:48
dobeyi just told you that it's broken18:48
dobeyyou cannot install it currently. you should not install it18:48
studio_if it is broken, why is it listed on ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device=krillin18:49
studio_sorry for my question :(18:50
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dobeydevel-proposed is unsupported and only for testing; it is not a channel you should use normally.18:51
dobeyuse one of the "stable" or "rc-proposed" channels18:52
studio_what is the latest channel without bq tools but with mouse pointer?18:52
dobeyconvergence is not a supported feature on the e4.518:52
studio_dobey, what device or build tree is that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjFpJRiS2dI18:56
dobeythat looks like the meizu mx418:57
dobeyas it very clearly says in the description of the video18:57
mcphailstudio_: hi! I thought you'd already switched your phone to Android?18:58
studio_so only mx4 got an mouse pointer?18:58
dobeyi don't know what channel that is18:58
dobeybut rc-proposed has all the latest phone features18:58
dobeyas i already said a half an hour ago18:58
studio_so the bq e5 and bq e4.5 is rubbish?18:59
dobeyare you illiterate?18:59
dobeybecause it's apparent you're not able to read anything i've typed19:00
dobeyeither flash rc-proposed or android on yoru phone, but stop being repetitive and rude19:01
studio_i asked you, what is the latest build for the bq. you told me mouse pointer is only for convergence device, i do not think i am "illiterate" ...19:02
studio_wir können das aber auch in Deutsch besprechen, ist meine Muttersprache ...19:03
dobeyi told you. the latest build is rc-proposed19:04
k1lstudio_: das thema mit dem "sonst installier ich android weil ubuntu kacke ist" hatten wir doch schon oft genug. diese erpressungsversuche lassen nur dich in einem dummen licht stehen.19:04
dobeyif you plug in a mouse and don't get a mouse cursor, then either your mouse or usb adapter is not supported, or it doesn't work on your phone. coming in here and being rude, demanding, and repetitive, isn't going to change that19:05
* mcphail always thought German had more capital letters19:05
studio_k1l, da du ja nun ein bq E4.5 besitzt kennst du da Problem ja :)19:05
k1lstudio_: und die fragen wurden doch beantwortet. in dem video ist es ein mx4. der devel-proposed kanal ist zur zeit nicht unterstützt. rc-proposed ist der letzte neuste stand den du zur Zeit bekommen kannst.19:06
studio_dobey, what rc-proposed channel should i use to have the latest experimental ubuntu-touch on my phone?19:07
dobeyall the rc-proposed channels are the same, save for the default installed .click packages19:07
dobeyand minor customizations19:07
k1lmcphail: it does, but not for the lazy guys on irc ;p19:07
dobeythey don't have different core features19:07
mcphailk1l: :) indeed19:09
studio_k1l, if you can use your ubuntu-touch device in the moment more then an apple ipod touch, let me know ...19:11
mcphailstudio_: I can make phonecalls on my phone, but not on my music player19:11
k1lstudio_: that rantings are not appropriate and not helping the devs to do what you want. you were told that several times already19:12
studio_mcphail, i was able to make phone call on my old ipod touch too, via sip19:12
dobeystudio_: then go install android and leave us alone if that's how you feel19:13
mcphailstudio_: you know I love you, but why would you think the Ubuntu phone would be eclipsing the entire Apple ecosystem 8 months after release? You make me laugh :)19:14
studio_mcphail, when was ubuntu-touch released?19:14
mcphailstudio_: nope, of course not19:15
studio_so, when?19:15
dobeythere is no ubuntu-touch19:15
mcphailstudio_: release was earlier this year, as you know (you little rascal)19:15
studio_dobey, come on what's the release date?19:16
dobeywhat release date? you know when the e4.5 ubuntu edition was released19:16
dobeynow stop being a troll19:16
studio_heise.de told me 201319:16
dobeygood for heise.de19:17
studio_so heise is trolling?19:17
dobeyi don't know what heise.de says exactly, but i'm sure you've read it wrong19:17
mcphailstudio_: to be fair, If ubuntu _had_ been release in 2013, it would be perfectly reasonable to have expected it to have eclipsed the entrire Apple ecosystem by now. Shame on the devs19:18
dobeyno it wouldn't19:18
dobeyjgdx: hey, are you "maintaining" ubuntu-push now?19:19
pmcgowanwe released the project code back then, but no real products19:19
studio_since now, sorry to say that again and again, but ubuntu is the perfect desktop-os, also server, but on the phone it is "crap" on the phone ...19:21
dobeystudio_: then don't use it if that's how you feel19:22
dobeystudio_: go install android and stop trolling us19:22
studio_dobey, why do you think i am trolling? since now i do not understand where the problem is, is it mtk?19:24
dobeystudio_: because you keep asking the same stuff over and over, despite having been answered, are accusatory, threaten us to "install android" if we don't answer your questions, and keep calling ubuntu "crap"19:25
genii"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results"19:25
studio_so why is it not possible to make a new kernel with new blobs?19:26
dobeywhat has that got to do with anything?19:26
dobeyif you want to make a new kernel, then go make one19:27
* mcphail is playing studio_ bingo. First convergence, then SIP, now the blobs. FULL HOUSE!19:27
studio_with old blobs, is that working for exp. on 4.2?19:27
dobeybuilding a 4.2 kernel for your phone isn't going to enable features the phone doesn't have19:27
gruftI'd like to build an App for Ubuntu-Phone, but the Ubuntu-SDK is not working. How did you do it?19:29
popeygruft, "not working" how?19:29
popeygruft, app devs tend to hang out in #ubuntu-app-devel btw, and many of the SDK team aren't around at this time, but we may be able to help19:29
studio_dobey, so with old blob it is still working on 3.4.110?19:29
dobeystudio_: i have no idea what you are asking19:30
dobeystudio_: but please, just stop already.19:30
mcphailgruft: might be better to ask in #ubuntu-app-dewvel as it is a bit noisy in here19:30
gruftNo Design Interface due to errors....19:30
popeygruft, known not working19:30
popeygruft, I don't think there's any plan to fix the design part of qtcreator19:30
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mcphailgruft: I asked about this the other day. Qt Creator isn't currently capable of supporting this19:31
studio_dobey, if you have no idea what i am talking about, so why do you want to stop talking about that?19:31
dobeystudio_: i want you to stop trolling and asking irrelevant and inane questions that have nothing to do with anything being previously said19:31
popeyok, shall we dial down the snark a bit?19:31
studio_dobey, i am so sorry, but you are ignorant ...19:32
gruftI'd like to make an app for ubuntu phone with Qt, how ?19:32
popeygruft, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/qml/19:33
dobeystudio_: you're not sorry. you're rude, arrogant, and a troll.19:33
davmor2studio_: there is no 15.10 release anymore.19:33
gruftJust leaving out the design interface?19:34
mcphailgruft: yes - there isn't a gui to deign the interface19:34
davmor2studio_: infact there never was a 15.10 release for touch.19:34
dobeydavmor2: i gave that answer an hour ago. :-/19:35
davmor2dobey: I'm still playing catch up19:35
studio_popey, i understood, that you want to try to convey, but here is the problem between users an developers ... in the moment developers are living in the moment in their own world ...19:36
studio_sorry, i'll leave, i am only a user ...19:37
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