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[05:47] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-ota-9-already-got-a-new-web-browser-app-thai-font-support-496254.shtml
[06:04] <elimisteve> Hey all, I'm getting a new laptop and I'm wondering 2 things:
[06:05] <elimisteve> 1. Which version of Ubuntu should I use for developing Ubuntu Phone apps?
[06:05] <elimisteve> (I understand that it used to matter more but the SDK is now, or will soon, come bundled with what it needs, independent of the OS version you're developing in)
[06:06] <elimisteve> 2. Can I develop Ubuntu Phone apps just fine on Xubuntu?
[06:06] <elimisteve> I like to save RAM :-)
[06:10] <elimisteve> popey: which version of which Ubuntu flavor do you and other Ubuntu Phone devs run?
[06:11] <elimisteve> am I safe running Xubuntu, or will something be missing?
[06:11] <elimisteve> Experimenting with Unity 8, to be able to run converged apps on my desktop, would be amazing, if it's stable enough for everyday use
[06:13] <elimisteve> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC sounds like an awesome way to go, hmm...
[06:16] <RAOF> elimisteve: You can develop Ubuntu Phone apps wherever you want.
[06:16] <RAOF> elimisteve: Basically just need QtCreator, which'll work wherever.
[07:50] <dholbach> good morning
[07:51] <zzarr> good morning
[07:52] <zzarr> I'm exited for tomorrows release of OTA-8 :D
[07:57] <elimisteve> RAOF: thanks. What about running Phone apps on the desktop? I know that not all the same APIs are there, but for some apps, it should work. Do you know if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC is the best way to do that?
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> zzarr: me too :p
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[10:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Home-Made Bread Day! 😃
[10:13]  * mcphail is quite annoyed that his breadmaker makes better bread than he can make by hand
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[12:06] <mcphail> Are we expecting OTA-8 for the bq tomorrow, or will it only be meizu and nexus?
[12:10] <hasselmm> /me silently hopes of bluetooth fixes
[12:10] <jibel> mcphail, according to sil2100 landing team email, expect something tomorrow or Thursday
[12:12] <mcphail> jibel: thanks
[12:12] <mcphail> hasselmm: don't think bluetooth is changing until OTA9 at the earliest
[12:14] <jibel> hasselmm, yeah, improvements will be in OTA9 with the release of bluez5
[12:14] <sil2100> This should land pretty soon, considering it will pass final QA
[12:14] <hasselmm> jibel: oh! cool. is there a way i can help with testing those changes early?
[12:15] <hasselmm> really need the bq to work reliable with my car's head unit
[12:15] <hasselmm> no need to get stopped by police officers for fiddling with the phone :D
[12:17] <mcphail> hasselmm: yes - I've been waiting for this, too. Hope bluez5 makes a difference as my car can't see my phone at all
[12:17] <hasselmm> actually contribute my 10% edu time to help fixing bt
[12:17] <hasselmm> *could*
[12:18] <hasselmm> mcphail: for me it works perfectly for the very first time after (power cycling the phone? some random period of time? moon phase? after that it stops.)
[12:20] <mcphail> hasselmm: doesn't work at all for me. Occasionally my phone sees my car, but it never connects
[12:21] <mcphail> hasselmm: If you could fix it, I would be very happy :)
[12:38] <slo> Is there any work on getting a Sim Toolkit UI?
[12:51] <cwayne1> hm,  my app is held up for a warning "Found VCS files in package", but there's no .git or .bzr or anything in the click...
[12:52] <jibel> hasselmm, if really you want to help you can test rc-proposed once the new BT stack is in. But be aware that it is a non stable build and not recommended for normal usage since it may break, have regressions and you can lose your data.
[12:54] <hasselmm> jibel: guess i can just backup the full image, with all data, before putting rc-proposed on it?
[12:55] <jibel> hasselmm, yes, it is not necessarily trivial to do but it is possible to do that indeed
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[13:34] <jgdx> seb128, wily upgrade went very well. Thank you
[13:35] <seb128> jgdx, hey, good to read ;-)
[14:13] <rbasak> I have dbus-daemon using 100% CPU making the phone UI unusable. But ssh is absolutely fine. Any debugging tips that would help a bug report?
[14:13] <rbasak> This is a regular problem on my phone, and I have it in the act.
[14:13] <rbasak> Aquaris 4.5
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[14:24] <seb128> rbasak, try to dbus-monitor to see if/what is spamming it
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[14:54] <rbasak> seb128: I've logged dbus-monitor output for both system and session buses but I don't see anything obvious.
[14:54] <rbasak> seb128: I'm not sure what's normal though. It did seem to me that it was using 100% CPU even during periods when dbus-monitor output was relatively quiet.
[14:55] <seb128> rbasak, :-(
[14:55] <seb128> I've had issues like that
[14:55] <seb128> there is at least a n-m spam issue, but I found it weird because usually it's not that many messages
[14:55] <seb128> pmcgowan might know if that's something still looked at
[14:56] <seb128> and I know mterry was trying to investigate similar issues
[14:56] <mterry> Yeah, dbus-daemon can seemingly get stuck processing a backlog of messages, even if dbus-monitor is quiet (I think)
[14:57] <pmcgowan> rbasak, awe is on the case for the dbus traffic, some fixes in the works
[14:57] <mterry> awe has been crushing that bug lately
[14:57] <seb128> great
[14:57] <seb128> because I still see it here as well
[14:57] <pmcgowan> its a plethora of matching rules and leaks
[14:57] <awe> seb128, it's not a NM spam issue
[14:57] <awe> it's too many bad clients
[14:58] <seb128> awe, k, it was how people originally described it
[14:58] <seb128> ah
[14:58] <awe> sure...
[14:58] <seb128> awe, is there a bug with the current status/things that have been figured out?
[14:58] <awe> basically location-services and Qt add match rules for every single NM access point object ever created
[14:58] <awe> and never clean them up again
[14:58] <seb128> rather than making you rewrite on IRC things that are available in a place that can be read
[14:58] <seb128> k
[14:59] <awe> ...and someone relaxed the per process limit on match rules from 512 to 5k in vivid
[14:59] <awe> do the math
[14:59] <awe> ;D
[14:59] <seb128> that seems like something that has potential for creating issue
[14:59] <seb128> glad somebody figured it out!
[14:59] <seb128> haha
[14:59] <seb128> kudos to whoever found the root issue
[15:00] <seb128> beer from me at the next $event
[15:00] <awe> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/location-service/+bug/1480877/comments/52
[15:00] <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1480877 in location-service (Ubuntu RTM) "Access points' "PropertiesChanged" dbus signals freeze UI on mobile devices" [High,In progress]
[15:00] <awe> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/location-service/+bug/1480877/comments/65
[15:02] <awe> seb128, it's bad because any of our system processes that use QNetwork inherit a backend NM bearer plugin that creates these signal watches
[15:02] <awe> so it effects unity8, maliit-server, sync, ...
[15:02] <awe> and gets worse the longer WiFi is continually running
[15:02] <seb128> urg
[15:02] <awe> yup
[15:03] <seb128> well at least it's an understood issue and fixing the root cause should solve it
[15:03] <awe> indeed
[15:03] <seb128> I like that better than a random statement of "dbus doesn't handle load"
[15:03] <awe> seb128, me too
[15:10] <rbasak> seb128, mterry, awe, pmcgowan: thanks! That sounds like my issue. It makes my phone unusable after a day or two without rebooting. Thank you for working on it.
[15:11] <rbasak> I wonder if Unity/Mir shouldn't hang the UI when dbus-daemon is slow though? Or does it rely too heavily on it to decouple?
[15:11] <awe> rbasak, yw
[15:11] <awe> rbasak, the problem is that the bus gets clobbered by all these rules
[15:12] <awe> which in turn effects every process that attaches to the system bus
[15:12] <awe> and every message passed thru that bus
[15:12] <rbasak> awe: ah - UI interaction needs to go through the bus itself? That makes sense.
[15:12] <awe> so unfortunately the only way to decouple is to stop the rules spamming in the first place
[15:12] <awe> we're working on it
[15:13] <awe> we have a proposed fix in location-services ( which had the same bug, different impl )
[15:13] <awe> and are working on the Qt fix as we speak
[15:13] <rbasak> Appreciated. Thanks again!
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[16:55] <ulala> hello, does anyone know if wifi tether for mako is in the works? I can't find anything in launchpad - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools - assuming I'm looking in the right place
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[17:01] <mterry> jdstrand_, poke about phone admin passwords?  I was just told by patriciadavila that there was a request for separate (longer) admin passwords on the phone for sudo use (separate from lockscreen passwords)
[17:02] <mterry> jdstrand_, curious if that was from you or if you know about it
[17:24] <jdstrand_> mterry: we have always hated pin as sudo. I'm not sure where this request if coming from. tyhicks, do you? ^
[17:24] <jdstrand_> s/if coming/is coming/
[17:31] <cachio_> pitti, there?
[17:32] <tyhicks> mterry, jdstrand_: I don't know where that request is coming from but we (security team) fully support the idea of separating the lockscreen PIN from the admin password
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[17:33] <mterry> jdstrand_, tyhicks: OK...  Hm.  Well it's a design problem, but not unsolvable.  I will try to find out where the request is coming from though
[17:34] <mterry> mzanetti, ^
[17:36] <tyhicks> mterry: yeah, I completely understand that could be confusing for users to have two seperate passwords (a lockscreen PIN and a strong login password)
[17:36] <tyhicks> mterry: however, it is also a requirement for user data encryption
[17:37] <mterry> tyhicks, that they not use a pin as a sudo password?
[17:37] <mterry> tyhicks, but if they used a passphrase, would it be OK if the lockscreen/sudo passwords were the same?
[17:37] <tyhicks> mterry: that a PIN not be used for wrapping the user data encryption key
[17:38] <tyhicks> mterry: yes, if they use a passphrase, that passphrase can be used for the lockscreen and sudo
[17:38] <mterry> tyhicks, OK makes sense
[17:41] <Fahd> Is there a way to install ubuntu touch on my sony z2 d5602 phone???
[17:41] <Fahd> d6502
[17:44] <Fahd> is there anyone here?
[17:48] <mterry> Fahd, I don't know about that phone.  wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install might have pointers for non-typical devices
[17:48] <Fahd> ok,  i'll check it
[17:56] <studio_> hi
[18:00] <studio_> i need some help with updating an krillin-device (bq E4.5) to 15.10 from 15.04 (r26) without hanging in the boot-screen "bq - powered by ubuntu". can someone help?
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[18:04] <studio_> after an hardware reset to  15.04 (r26) with the mtk tools and an "ubuntu-device-flash ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu-developer --bootstrap --recovery-image /home/user/Downloads/recovery-krillin.img" the device is still hanging in the boot screen. same is with "ubuntu-device-flash ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu --bootstrap --recovery-image /home/user/Downl
[18:04] <studio_> oads/recovery-krillin.img". did i missed something?
[18:12] <studio_> ok, the boot-screen "bq - powered by ubuntu" can be used as a flashlight, but i do not think it is a feature ..., isn't it?
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[18:23] <studio_> is someone here?
[18:24] <studio_> come on, is this "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Channels" outdated?
[18:25] <dobey> nobody is here
[18:26] <dobey> you should not use devel-proposed
[18:26] <dobey> use rc-proposed instead
[18:36] <studio_> ok, last try before i restore the bq E4.5 to Android 5.0 ... i restored the bq E 4.5 to 15.04 (r26), will now try directly "ubuntu-device-flash ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu --bootstrap --recovery-image /home/user/Downloads/recovery-krillin.img" ...
[18:38] <dobey> i just told you
[18:38] <dobey> don't use devel-proposed. it's known to be broken right now
[18:38] <dobey> don't come in here and make threats about flashing some other OS onto your phone. it's very rude.
[18:39] <jibel> stgraber, hi, I de-duplicated bug 1516971
[18:39] <ubot5> bug 1516971 in Canonical System Image "devel-proposed mako 350 - android lxc container fails to start" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516971
[18:39] <stgraber> jibel: thanks
[18:43] <studio_> dobey, it's not rude, to tell someone how to upgrade from 15.04 to 15.10, it is just a hint ...
[18:44] <dobey> studio_: devel-proposed is not 15.10. it is the latest development version of ubuntu, which is now xenial, and it doesn't work
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[18:44] <dobey> studio_: yes, it is rude to attempt to use threats to coerce people into answering you
[18:45] <studio_> dobey, is this "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Channels" wrong?
[18:45] <dobey> no. at the time the "(currently ubuntu/wily)" was added, it was wily. wily has since been release and a new ubuntu development cycle is underway
[18:45] <studio_> so?
[18:46] <dobey> so what?
[18:46] <dobey> "Automatically built images from the latest devel series."
[18:46] <dobey> that is correct
[18:46] <studio_> so how can i try wily on the bq?
[18:46] <dobey> there are no wily phone images for the bq
[18:47] <dobey> if you want to try the newest features on the phone, then use rc-proposed
[18:48] <studio_> and how can i install "ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu-developer" or "ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/ubuntu" on my bq?
[18:48] <dobey> i just told you that it's broken
[18:48] <dobey> you cannot install it currently. you should not install it
[18:49] <studio_> if it is broken, why is it listed on ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device=krillin
[18:49] <dobey> sigh
[18:50] <studio_> sorry for my question :(
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[18:51] <dobey> devel-proposed is unsupported and only for testing; it is not a channel you should use normally.
[18:52] <dobey> use one of the "stable" or "rc-proposed" channels
[18:52] <studio_> what is the latest channel without bq tools but with mouse pointer?
[18:52] <dobey> convergence is not a supported feature on the e4.5
[18:56] <studio_> dobey, what device or build tree is that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjFpJRiS2dI
[18:56] <studio_> ?
[18:57] <dobey> that looks like the meizu mx4
[18:57] <dobey> as it very clearly says in the description of the video
[18:58] <mcphail> studio_: hi! I thought you'd already switched your phone to Android?
[18:58] <studio_> so only mx4 got an mouse pointer?
[18:58] <dobey> i don't know what channel that is
[18:58] <dobey> but rc-proposed has all the latest phone features
[18:58] <dobey> as i already said a half an hour ago
[18:59] <studio_> so the bq e5 and bq e4.5 is rubbish?
[18:59] <dobey> are you illiterate?
[19:00] <dobey> because it's apparent you're not able to read anything i've typed
[19:01] <dobey> either flash rc-proposed or android on yoru phone, but stop being repetitive and rude
[19:02] <studio_> i asked you, what is the latest build for the bq. you told me mouse pointer is only for convergence device, i do not think i am "illiterate" ...
[19:03] <studio_> wir können das aber auch in Deutsch besprechen, ist meine Muttersprache ...
[19:03] <dobey> english
[19:04] <studio_> ok
[19:04] <dobey> i told you. the latest build is rc-proposed
[19:04] <k1l> studio_: das thema mit dem "sonst installier ich android weil ubuntu kacke ist" hatten wir doch schon oft genug. diese erpressungsversuche lassen nur dich in einem dummen licht stehen.
[19:05] <dobey> if you plug in a mouse and don't get a mouse cursor, then either your mouse or usb adapter is not supported, or it doesn't work on your phone. coming in here and being rude, demanding, and repetitive, isn't going to change that
[19:05]  * mcphail always thought German had more capital letters
[19:05] <studio_> k1l, da du ja nun ein bq E4.5 besitzt kennst du da Problem ja :)
[19:06] <k1l> studio_: und die fragen wurden doch beantwortet. in dem video ist es ein mx4. der devel-proposed kanal ist zur zeit nicht unterstützt. rc-proposed ist der letzte neuste stand den du zur Zeit bekommen kannst.
[19:07] <studio_> dobey, what rc-proposed channel should i use to have the latest experimental ubuntu-touch on my phone?
[19:07] <dobey> all the rc-proposed channels are the same, save for the default installed .click packages
[19:07] <dobey> and minor customizations
[19:07] <k1l> mcphail: it does, but not for the lazy guys on irc ;p
[19:07] <studio_> ok
[19:07] <dobey> they don't have different core features
[19:09] <mcphail> k1l: :) indeed
[19:11] <studio_> k1l, if you can use your ubuntu-touch device in the moment more then an apple ipod touch, let me know ...
[19:11] <mcphail> studio_: I can make phonecalls on my phone, but not on my music player
[19:12] <k1l> studio_: that rantings are not appropriate and not helping the devs to do what you want. you were told that several times already
[19:12] <studio_> *lol*
[19:12] <studio_> mcphail, i was able to make phone call on my old ipod touch too, via sip
[19:13] <dobey> studio_: then go install android and leave us alone if that's how you feel
[19:14] <mcphail> studio_: you know I love you, but why would you think the Ubuntu phone would be eclipsing the entire Apple ecosystem 8 months after release? You make me laugh :)
[19:14] <studio_> mcphail, when was ubuntu-touch released?
[19:14] <studio_> 2013?
[19:15] <dobey> no
[19:15] <mcphail> studio_: nope, of course not
[19:15] <studio_> so, when?
[19:15] <dobey> there is no ubuntu-touch
[19:15] <mcphail> studio_: release was earlier this year, as you know (you little rascal)
[19:16] <studio_> dobey, come on what's the release date?
[19:16] <dobey> what release date? you know when the e4.5 ubuntu edition was released
[19:16] <dobey> now stop being a troll
[19:16] <studio_> heise.de told me 2013
[19:17] <dobey> good for heise.de
[19:17] <studio_> so heise is trolling?
[19:17] <dobey> i don't know what heise.de says exactly, but i'm sure you've read it wrong
[19:18] <mcphail> studio_: to be fair, If ubuntu _had_ been release in 2013, it would be perfectly reasonable to have expected it to have eclipsed the entrire Apple ecosystem by now. Shame on the devs
[19:18] <dobey> no it wouldn't
[19:19] <dobey> jgdx: hey, are you "maintaining" ubuntu-push now?
[19:19] <pmcgowan> we released the project code back then, but no real products
[19:21] <studio_> since now, sorry to say that again and again, but ubuntu is the perfect desktop-os, also server, but on the phone it is "crap" on the phone ...
[19:22] <dobey> studio_: then don't use it if that's how you feel
[19:22] <dobey> studio_: go install android and stop trolling us
[19:24] <studio_> dobey, why do you think i am trolling? since now i do not understand where the problem is, is it mtk?
[19:25] <dobey> studio_: because you keep asking the same stuff over and over, despite having been answered, are accusatory, threaten us to "install android" if we don't answer your questions, and keep calling ubuntu "crap"
[19:25] <genii> "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results"
[19:26] <studio_> so why is it not possible to make a new kernel with new blobs?
[19:26] <dobey> what has that got to do with anything?
[19:27] <dobey> if you want to make a new kernel, then go make one
[19:27]  * mcphail is playing studio_ bingo. First convergence, then SIP, now the blobs. FULL HOUSE!
[19:27] <studio_> with old blobs, is that working for exp. on 4.2?
[19:27] <dobey> building a 4.2 kernel for your phone isn't going to enable features the phone doesn't have
[19:29] <gruft> I'd like to build an App for Ubuntu-Phone, but the Ubuntu-SDK is not working. How did you do it?
[19:29] <popey> gruft, "not working" how?
[19:29] <popey> gruft, app devs tend to hang out in #ubuntu-app-devel btw, and many of the SDK team aren't around at this time, but we may be able to help
[19:29] <studio_> dobey, so with old blob it is still working on 3.4.110?
[19:30] <dobey> studio_: i have no idea what you are asking
[19:30] <dobey> studio_: but please, just stop already.
[19:30] <mcphail> gruft: might be better to ask in #ubuntu-app-dewvel as it is a bit noisy in here
[19:30] <gruft> No Design Interface due to errors....
[19:30] <mcphail> *#ubuntu=app-devel
[19:30] <mcphail> aarrgh
[19:30] <popey> gruft, known not working
[19:30] <popey> gruft, I don't think there's any plan to fix the design part of qtcreator
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[19:31] <mcphail> gruft: I asked about this the other day. Qt Creator isn't currently capable of supporting this
[19:31] <studio_> dobey, if you have no idea what i am talking about, so why do you want to stop talking about that?
[19:31] <dobey> studio_: i want you to stop trolling and asking irrelevant and inane questions that have nothing to do with anything being previously said
[19:31] <popey> ok, shall we dial down the snark a bit?
[19:32] <studio_> dobey, i am so sorry, but you are ignorant ...
[19:32] <gruft> I'd like to make an app for ubuntu phone with Qt, how ?
[19:33] <popey> gruft, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/qml/
[19:33] <dobey> studio_: you're not sorry. you're rude, arrogant, and a troll.
[19:33] <davmor2> studio_: there is no 15.10 release anymore.
[19:34] <gruft> Just leaving out the design interface?
[19:34] <mcphail> gruft: yes - there isn't a gui to deign the interface
[19:34] <davmor2> studio_: infact there never was a 15.10 release for touch.
[19:35] <dobey> davmor2: i gave that answer an hour ago. :-/
[19:35] <davmor2> dobey: I'm still playing catch up
[19:36] <studio_> popey, i understood, that you want to try to convey, but here is the problem between users an developers ... in the moment developers are living in the moment in their own world ...
[19:37] <studio_> sorry, i'll leave, i am only a user ...
[19:38] <studio_> bye
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