[00:02] <OerHeks> my desktop https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/mybackground.png this happening 4 years ago
[00:03] <daftykins> puppies!
[00:03] <OerHeks> Jups, there were 8, but all i have now is the smallest one
[00:04] <daftykins> you know what they say about picking the runt of the litter! :)
[00:04] <OerHeks> spread your 2 hands together, and you'll have the size of the bunch
[00:05] <OerHeks> picking the runt of the litter, let me bing it..
[00:05] <OerHeks> oh, oke
[00:06] <OerHeks> He was the smallest one, but so lightweight, he could get on top and get the fattest milk
[00:07] <OerHeks> His eyes squint, but that is no problem, except if he runs off..
[00:08] <daftykins> :D
[00:09] <OerHeks> one way to keep him with me :-)
[00:26] <ki7mt> daftykins, While you guys may not agree with what I said, it's function / method is used by many developers to test the very thing(s) you all said were unwise.  The guy was running a short term support release, that in itself is "unwsie" for a production environment.
[00:27] <daftykins> ki7mt: that wasn't even vaguely the original query, you seem to be having a seriously hard time accepting being told you were wrong
[00:27] <OerHeks> True, for production i would choose lts over cutting edge .. but he was asking earlier howto upgrade to the latest.
[00:28] <ki7mt> I dont have a problem with that at all, but, what I said, in fact, is not wrong. It is a method, all bit, know the risks.
[00:29] <daftykins> ki7mt: yes but for the second god damn time, you didn't SHARE the risks.
[00:29] <daftykins> and no it was 100% ridiculous that you even brought it up
[00:32] <ki7mt> God doesn't have anything to do with it, so dont take his name in vain please. So your requirment is, if there's a risk in any recommendation, we " those providing a suggestion", should make them agree to a risk statement before hand .. LOL ..
[00:32] <ki7mt> that channel would cease to exist on that basis.
[00:32] <OerHeks> It is not only the person who we talk too, many find solutions in the logs too. or read it with us.
[00:33] <daftykins> this isn't a place for any daft religious commentary
[00:34] <daftykins> ki7mt: it's a lot simpler, stop giving bad advice - can we move on now instead of having you get hung up for hours on a single query?
[00:34] <ki7mt> They find them all over the web too, like roll your own kernel, but they don't write "Danger Will Robinson" all of the top of the WIKI page do they.
[00:34] <daftykins> once again you're not even comparing apples to apples, that is some seriously poor logic
[00:34] <daftykins> we weren't talking about something being obtained from a third party.
[00:35] <ki7mt> what third party, how did that enter the picture?
[00:35] <daftykins> when you just mentioned someone rolling their own kernel
[00:35] <daftykins> that was totally miles away from the persons original query
[00:36] <ki7mt> In response too: "It is not only the person who we talk too, many find solutions in the logs too. or read it with us." I didn't bring it up, your did.
[00:36] <OerHeks> i did.
[00:36] <ki7mt> his original query was well understood.
[00:36] <daftykins> use a nick so we know who you're talking to, then
[00:37] <daftykins> look, just drop it will you? and don't advise pinning again when it ruins security
[00:38] <ki7mt> I will drop it, but what I wont drop is being told my answer was wrong, when in every bases of fact, what I was., was a viable solution. It's just your option, which your entitled too, that it should not be done that way, does not make the solution wrong.
[00:39] <ki7mt> s/ wat it was/g
[00:39] <OerHeks> ki7mt, big issue is: ubuntu switches to SystemD .. and skipping a release, well, i am not sure it is going to be oke
[00:40] <OerHeks> it might be, but i am not going to test that.
[00:41] <ki7mt> OerHeks, Yes, that may very well cause a problem.
[00:41] <daftykins> it was not viable whatsoever.
[00:41] <ki7mt> Option again.
[00:41] <ki7mt> prove it.
[00:42] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: the_count Be aware he is a 15 year old, but pretty sharp .
[00:42] <daftykins> it doesn't need proving, you told someone to enact a process that meant they'd never get newer kernel versions (minor versions, the two digits following the major version)
[00:42] <daftykins> ki7mt: i genuinely do not understand what major malfunction is preventing you from seeing blatant fact.
[00:42] <ki7mt> "Never" thats wrong completely wrong.
[00:43] <daftykins> bullshit.
[00:43] <ki7mt> All one has to do is remove the lock.
[00:43] <OerHeks> Bashing-om, wish i was 15 .. any show will give me a job :-D
[00:43] <daftykins> oh my word every successive comment from you is more retarded than the last
[00:43] <OerHeks> show-shop
[00:44] <daftykins> i'm done with this topic. stop spewing nonsense.
[00:44] <ki7mt> Now my comments are retarded, because but your statement was completely wrong.
[00:46] <daftykins> well if you're going to be really childish and take apart sentences word for word, then yeah - we're done.
[00:46] <ki7mt> So, I'm wrong because I dont wave a rad flag before a suggestion, I'm wrong because it's a risk, Im wrong becasue you dont like the method, and in case your wrong about package holding.
[00:46] <daftykins> stating that a condition changes when you undo the action, is basic logic
[00:47] <daftykins> i've already made my point, you shouldn't still be struggling at this
[00:47] <daftykins> now try and detach your emotions from computing tasks, they don't belong here
[00:47] <ki7mt> Oh, fear not, Im not struggling wiht this at all.
[00:48] <ki7mt> now your saying I'm being guided by emotions?
[00:48] <daftykins> you're ignored now. go spew nonsense somewhere else
[00:49] <ki7mt> good thank you.\
[00:52] <Ben64> you were wrong because you're wrong
[00:52] <ki7mt> This is too funny.
[00:53] <Ben64> your suggestion amounted to "disable security updates"
[00:53] <Ben64> for absolutely no reason
[00:53] <ki7mt> Agreed.
[00:53] <ki7mt> whoops, not for no reason.
[00:53] <Ben64> yes for no reason
[00:53] <ki7mt> that' doesn't make it wrong.
[00:53] <Ben64> it sure does
[00:53] <ki7mt> holding any packages doe that.
[00:53] <Ben64> Nov 18 2015 15:41:42 <ki7mt>	n8s, If you have a kernel you like, putting a hold on the package is one way to ensure it sticky
[00:54] <Ben64> very dumb
[00:54] <daftykins> *nod*
[00:54] <ki7mt> Yes, exactly, "one way"
[00:54] <Ben64> the dumbest way
[00:54] <ki7mt> Option.
[00:54] <Ben64> because normal updates don't change the kernel
[00:54] <ki7mt> Agreed.
[00:54] <Ben64> so its pointless, and not secure and stupid
[00:54] <ki7mt> More options ==> Stupid
[00:54] <ki7mt> And it's not pointless.
[00:54] <Ben64> it absolutely is pointless
[00:55] <ki7mt> So whats is the point of holding a package then?
[00:55] <Ben64> don't get security updates for your kernel because...?
[00:55] <ki7mt> Again, what is the point of holding a package?
[00:56] <Ben64> so your argument is basically "why do knives have sharp edges unless they're made to stab people"
[00:56] <ki7mt> No, I'd like you to answer the question, what is the point or purpose of holding a package?
[00:57] <Ben64> not for holding kernels because you "like it"
[00:57] <ki7mt> Oh, so, the hold function does not work for kernel packages, everything but?
[00:57] <Ben64> again, the knife argument
[00:58] <Ben64> obviously knives can be used to stab people, that means you must do it!
[00:58] <ki7mt> It's there to use as one sees fit, if you don't like it, don't use it, that doesn't make it wrong to use.
[00:59] <Ben64> using it improperly is wrong
[00:59]  * daftykins chuckles
[00:59] <OerHeks> bleeeh .. IT IS WRONG! and against the ubuntu policy, we need to keep a line here
[00:59] <ki7mt> lol . yeah that's funny, where doe it say not to use this on certain files.
[00:59] <Ben64> just like stabbing someone is wrong
[00:59] <Ben64> its a tool, just like a knife
[01:00] <Ben64> suggesting that someone hold a kernel package is a terrible idea, even more terrible when you don't explain the ramifications of doing so
[01:01] <ki7mt> I dont care about knives dude, we're talkign about the usage of or not, the package hold function. You guys are telling me tis' wrong to use on a kernel, but the same argument could eb said oof any package could it not?
[01:01] <Ben64> yes
[01:01] <ki7mt> Thank You !
[01:01] <Ben64> you shouldn't hold any packages
[01:01] <ki7mt> sit is wsie to use, weight the risks oneself.
[01:01] <ki7mt> is it wise ..
[01:01] <Ben64> except you didn't explain anything
[01:01] <Ben64> you made the stupid suggestion that someone hold a kernel if "they like it"
[01:02] <ki7mt> You shoudl Hold Packages, "IF" you dont know what your doing with the hold.
[01:02] <Ben64> theres no point, you have no point
[01:02] <ki7mt> Sorry Should Not hold
[01:02] <Ben64> which you didn't explain at all
[01:02] <daftykins> batshit insane factor rising...
[01:02] <ki7mt> And I agreed to as much.
[01:02] <Ben64> yet you still argue that you have a damn point
[01:02] <Ben64> you've yet to explain more than "liking" a package the reason to hold it
[01:03] <ki7mt> I have a "valid" point, and I said, weigh the risks, but, it doesn't make the method "wrong"
[01:03] <Ben64> it does make the method wrong
[01:03] <Ben64> what problem does it solve, what problems does it create?
[01:03] <Ben64> solves nothing, creates security issues
[01:03] <Ben64> therefore, it's not a solution, its a problem
[01:03] <ki7mt> And Ive asked how that is, and all I get back ins "security this, security that"
[01:03] <OerHeks> WoW runs in Syria, Assasins Creed in Palestina and FallOut in Fukushima .. what gameconsoleshould i ask for xmas?
[01:04] <Ben64> OerHeks: ps4
[01:04] <daftykins> ki7mt: because security matters, surprise surprise.
[01:05] <ki7mt> Your kidding right? So does using a short term release of software, does that mean you shouldn't use it.
[01:05] <Ben64> what do you mean by "short term release of software"
[01:05] <ki7mt> In this context, you'd have to say yes, because it's a security risk
[01:06] <ki7mt> short term == not longer being updated
[01:06] <ki7mt> no longer
[01:06] <daftykins> once again you keep moving the topic about to take the focus off the mistake you made
[01:06] <ki7mt> Whatever bug were there, are there
[01:06] <Ben64> non sequitur
[01:06] <ki7mt> Im not moving the topic at all,
[01:06] <Ben64> you completely did
[01:06] <Ben64> pinning a package is ok because sometimes people run unsupported releases?
[01:07] <ki7mt> you said, don't do it because of security risks
[01:07] <Ben64> complete non sequitur
[01:08] <ki7mt> Your putting, and I dont disagree here, security above all else. But, there are times when a risk is needed to deal with a problem.
[01:09] <Ben64> no
[01:09] <daftykins> i think you need to learn to let this one go.
[01:09] <Ben64> and still you haven't ever explained this magical problem that requires you to pin a kernel
[01:09] <ki7mt> however, the person creating the risk needs to understand that risk, "which did not fully disclose"  on that count, guilty as charged.
[01:11] <ki7mt> lol .. daftykins you need to stop telling people what to do, because your really bad at it.
[01:11] <ki7mt> Ben64, I don't have a "magical" problem that needs solving.
[01:11] <daftykins> ki7mt: at least i back down when i'm told my advice is wrong - and don't blather on about the same thing for an hour after it happens.
[01:12] <daftykins> :)
[01:12] <Ben64> ki7mt: so don't suggest a stupid answer to your non-existent problem
[01:13] <ki7mt> Ben64, I didn't, he wanted to stay on a specific kernel version, what was it.
[01:13] <ki7mt> that was it
[01:13] <Ben64> which already happens in ubuntu without doing anything silly
[01:13] <ki7mt> I merely said pin it, and the walls of hell opened up, OMG, you cant pin a kernal blah blah blah .. LMAO
[01:14] <Ben64> yeah, because you're wrong
[01:14] <ki7mt> how
[01:14] <Ben64> learn from it
[01:14] <ki7mt> I woiiuld if you tell me how it was wrong,
[01:14] <Ben64> i just did
[01:14] <ki7mt> You all said, its wrong becasue of security ? is that right?
[01:15] <Ben64> Nov 18 2015 17:13:46 <Ben64>	which already happens in ubuntu without doing anything silly
[01:15] <Ben64> kernel versions don't change on a release of ubuntu
[01:15] <daftykins> ki7mt: 3 of us have said over and over it was wrong, grow up and accept it.
[01:15] <ki7mt> daftykins, I thought you ignored me, please do that.
[01:16] <ki7mt> Ben64, If the package name, number whatever, changes, is that not a version change ?
[01:16] <Ben64> linux-image-3.13.0-27-generic
[01:16] <Ben64> linux-image-3.13.0-68-generic
[01:16] <ki7mt> kernel series, yes, I agree, 3.18, 3.19 whatever that would eb the series.
[01:16] <Ben64> same version
[01:16] <daftykins> i think there's a screw loose or medication situation here :(
[01:17] <ki7mt> It's the same versies ( your calling version), the package is different is it not?
[01:17] <ki7mt> same series
[01:17] <Ben64> 3.13.0 is the kernel
[01:17]  * daftykins chuckles
[01:17] <ki7mt> yes, no what is 3.13.1
[01:17] <ki7mt> A different PACKAGE !!!!!!!!!!1
[01:18] <ki7mt> get it
[01:18] <Ben64> correct, but i didn't say 3.13.1 ever
[01:18] <ki7mt> that was an example.
[01:18] <Ben64> because the version doesn't change
[01:18] <Ben64> yeah a bad example
[01:18] <ki7mt> Agreed, the "version" does nto, but the package does.
[01:18] <Ben64> so you agree the version doesn't change
[01:19] <ki7mt> and when I freeze that "Package" thats it, that what I want, and it should stay there.
[01:19] <Ben64> why do you want that
[01:20] <ki7mt> yes, the version, as in 3.18 series kernel does not, as the patches, unless Im mistaked are applied to that Kernel Version or series.
[01:20] <Ben64> Nov 18 2015 17:13:06 <ki7mt>	Ben64, I didn't, he wanted to stay on a specific kernel version, what was it.
[01:20] <Ben64> so again, the version doesn't change
[01:20] <Ben64> want to stay on the same version
[01:20] <Ben64> solution = update normally
[01:21] <ki7mt> from my perspective, anythign that changes in the "Package" i is a change, be the series kerenl itself or not.
[01:21] <Ben64> well you're wrong again
[01:21] <ki7mt> BS
[01:21] <Ben64> and you have no reason for any of this
[01:21] <Ben64> i've tried to extract the dumb reasoning out of your head, but it's too damn thick
[01:22] <ki7mt> The reason can be anything, I dont have a specific use case, I just provided an example.
[01:23] <Ben64> the reason can't be anything
[01:23] <ki7mt> agreed, if we're being pedantic here, anything is not true.
[01:24] <Ben64> you can't provide any reason to pin a kernel package
[01:24] <Ben64> so there is no reason to suggest it
[01:24] <ki7mt> Sure I can. Becasue "I Want To" that's a reason; good one, no, but it's a reason.
[01:24] <Ben64> no reason to suggest it to anyone else
[01:25] <ki7mt> Or, I dont want the package to change at all, for any reason.
[01:25] <Ben64> you can be as dumb as you want, don't bring others down with you
[01:25] <ki7mt> Oh, now Im dumb?
[01:26] <Ben64> your actions and reasons are dumb
[01:26] <ki7mt> If he eantes to stay on s specif package, pin it, thats the purpose of the function is it not, It's up the the person "hwy" they want to stay on it, not my responsibility to "extract" his reasoning for doign something.
[01:27] <Ben64> don't suggest it anyway
[01:27] <ki7mt> Your wrong again. I gave no reason for doing it, other than it's a plausible method, that is not dumb.
[01:28] <Ben64> it is very dumb
[01:28] <ki7mt> it's a simple means to an end, period.
[01:28] <Ben64> it's not
[01:28] <ki7mt> That's an opinion.
[01:28] <Ben64> nope
[01:28] <ki7mt> does pinning the package not work?
[01:28] <ki7mt> does it not prevent it from being upgraded ?
[01:29] <Ben64> whats the reason
[01:29] <ki7mt> I dont care about the reason, we're taking about the action.
[01:29] <Ben64> the kernel version does not change in any version of ubuntu for a good reason
[01:29] <Ben64> theres absolutely no reason to ever pin it
[01:29] <ki7mt> does it not work == Yes It Does, therefore, a means to an end == True.
[01:29] <ki7mt> You say there's no reason, that's an opinion.
[01:29] <Ben64> its a fact
[01:30] <ki7mt> and it's yours, your entitled to it.
[01:30] <Ben64> the burden of proof is on you
[01:30] <Ben64> and you can't provide anything other than "i want to"
[01:30] <Ben64> which is stupid
[01:30] <ki7mt> Wrong again, I dont have a reason for doing it, Im merely saying, that is works.
[01:30] <ki7mt> Stupid == Another opinion.
[01:30] <Ben64> nobody ever argued that it didn't work
[01:30] <ki7mt> and its yuors.
[01:31] <Ben64> the point is it is stupid
[01:31] <ki7mt> Yes, but everyone sure screamed bloddy murder about security .. well news flash, if you freeze a package, you take that risk.
[01:31] <Ben64> for no reason
[01:32] <Ben64> = stupid
[01:32] <ki7mt> Again, Your opinion.
[01:32] <Ben64> you have no reason, you've provided no reason, there is no reason
[01:32] <ki7mt> Other, may or may not agree
[01:33] <ki7mt> Dude, what part of this dont you understand, "I Dont Have A Need To Pin A Package" .. I merely stated that would freeze the stupid kernel package.
[01:33] <Ben64> theres no reason to do so, and no reason to suggest someone do that
[01:33] <ki7mt> And you just agreed that it would/
[01:33] <ki7mt> No reason == Your Opinion agian.
[01:34] <daftykins> this looks like a bad nickname o0
[01:34] <daftykins> or just silly :D
[01:34] <Ben64> i've asked many times why that would be valid solution and you couldn't provide anything
[01:34] <ki7mt> You see no reason, that does mot me the rest of the world may not have one.
[01:34] <Ben64> so there is no reason
[01:34] <ki7mt> does not mean
[01:34] <Ben64> it certainly didn't solve the person's problem in #ubuntu
[01:34] <Ben64> don't suggest it
[01:35] <ki7mt> That may be a better criticism, while it was an option, it may not have solved his problem or need.
[01:35] <Ben64> go pin all the packages you want, just don't tell others to
[01:35] <Ben64> its not an option
[01:35] <Ben64> it only causes problems
[01:35] <ki7mt> Dont tell me what to do, you dont own me.
[01:36] <Ben64> a support channel is for support, you did the opposite of that
[01:36] <Ben64> i'll do whatever i want
[01:36] <ki7mt> YOu can try.
[01:36] <Ben64> i'll succeed
[01:36] <ki7mt> I've not tolkd you what to do, not called you names, have I?
[01:36] <daftykins> you should, by your own morals, want to adopt sense and not mislead users if you're ever going to field questions again
[01:36] <Ben64> i haven't called you names either, just called your ideas names
[01:37] <Ben64> which by all accounts, are stupid ideas
[01:37] <ki7mt> Ben64, I don't think So, I've done "Nothing" against the rules.
[01:37] <Ben64> !behelpful
[01:37] <Ben64> you weren't helpful
[01:38] <ki7mt> And you can prove I intentionally mislead this person or tried to do somethind "Bad" here? The only bad being done here, is the way you've all spoken  in general, to me personally.
[01:39] <Ben64> the goal was to have you see that it was bad advice
[01:39] <ki7mt> ANd you can prove my intention, was not to be helpful ?
[01:39] <Ben64> which you seem to refuse to accept
[01:39] <ki7mt> That's just wrong, did you look at the conversation he and I had just priror to you all jumping down my throoat?
[01:40] <ki7mt> Of course not
[01:40] <Ben64> i did
[01:40] <ki7mt> ANd I was not trying to be helpful there?
[01:40] <ki7mt> and that was bad advise to recommend LTS over a short term support version for "production" ?
[01:40] <Ben64> we only took issue with you saying to hold a kernel package
[01:41] <ki7mt> Oh, Im well aware of what you all took issue with.
[01:41] <ki7mt> Well let me tell you something ...
[01:41] <Ben64> i don't know why you're bringing other stuff up then
[01:41] <ki7mt> I've called named, belittled, defaced, just a name a few adjectives, and it's all being logged.
[01:43] <daftykins> it's definitely just being taken way too personally this
[01:43] <ki7mt> Im pissed off at the matter in which you all treated me in this situation, when "In Fact" what I stated was true and would stop that kernel from being updated. Best choice, no, I didn't say it was.
[01:43] <ki7mt> s/matter/manner/g
[01:43] <Ben64> again, there is no reason to prevent kernel updates
[01:43] <daftykins> pretty sad really
[01:43] <ki7mt> yeah, you are pretty sad daftykins
[01:44] <ki7mt> Ben64, You say there's no reason.
[01:44] <daftykins> no, i've done nothing but honourable things :) you're the one crying over being told you were wrong
[01:44] <ki7mt> I may say there's no reason, but it's a "Fact" we dont speak foreveryone, we're not god m8, newsflash.
[01:44] <Ben64> ki7mt: give a reason then? a problem that would be solved by cutting off kernel updates?
[01:46] <ki7mt> Ben64, Im not going down your rabbit hole again, what said was true, and factual, certainly no misleading, and was intended to be helpful. You all got nasty with me, and that pissed me off.
[01:46] <ki7mt> daftykins, See, I'm not crying about anything, but you may be beofore it all over.
[01:47] <Ben64> I didn't get nasty at any point. What you said was incorrect, ignored the effects of that action. It may have been intended to be helpful but it wasn't helpful at all. Please learn from this
[01:47] <daftykins> s/nasty/correcting bad advice/
[01:47] <daftykins> ki7mt: oh with laughter as you carry on? you may well be right there :)
[01:48] <ki7mt> daftykins, No, that's not the issue at all, it's your attitude, to others, I can't do anything about, but when directed toward me, I can, and certainly will. Do bare than in mind.
[01:49] <Ben64> you need to stop taking stuff so personally
[01:49] <Ben64> daftykins and I have had our differences, but I'm not holding a grudge, I hope daftykins isn't either
[01:49] <ki7mt> There you go again, telling me what I need to do, stop, you've not Idea what I need or do not need.
[01:50] <ki7mt> If I am wrong, so bit, I've admitted as much in the channel many time.
[01:50] <daftykins> Ben64: nah, i respect your advice giving - i've definitely been an ass to you at times, in fact i've never apologised for that!
[01:50] <ki7mt> But I've never attacked anyone in the channel, or elswhere in IRC for that matter.
[01:51] <daftykins> we're always going to point out those giving bad advice, because the #1 thing is doing right by the user, so you're just going to need to deal with that
[01:52] <Ben64> any suggestion that compromises security is definitely going to get a negative response
[01:52] <ki7mt> Ben64, I supposed it's all a matter of perspective, and in this case, it's my perspective, you've no leverage there, and to me, there are many comments that were / are uncalled for, and just plain indescent.
[01:53] <ki7mt> Ben64, Because that's important to "YOU" .. dont put your prejudice on others.
[01:53] <Ben64> don't tell me what to do!
[01:54] <ki7mt> How do you like it?
[01:54] <Ben64> i was joking, i don't care what someone says to me
[01:54] <ki7mt> Im not
[01:54] <ki7mt> and I do care what others say to me.
[01:54] <Ben64> but really, a support channel is about support. give bad support, you better be able to deal with the backlash
[01:54] <Ben64> the easy way is to not give bad support
[01:54] <ki7mt> How old are you oif I may ask?
[01:54] <Ben64> doesn't matter
[01:55] <ki7mt> whoos, old
[01:55] <ki7mt> Sure it does
[01:55] <ki7mt> Ok, different tac, what was the first Kernel version you ever used.
[01:56] <Ben64> not sure how thats relevant
[01:56] <ki7mt> Sure it is, your telling me, that I need tolearn how to deal with support and it's pro / cons yes?
[01:57] <Ben64> I'm saying don't give bad support. what kernel version I started with doesn't matter for that
[01:58] <ki7mt> Your picking up on the the message here, it's not what you say, it's how you say it!
[01:59] <ki7mt> LOL Your Not Picking up
[02:00] <Ben64> you didn't pick up that what you said was bad advice
[02:00] <ki7mt> If you ahve a better idea, better method, state the method, and put it to your self, as is, it's what you'd do, as smashing other people, be them right or wrong, is bad customer service in anyones book.
[02:00] <Ben64> the "customers" would be the people wanting help in #ubuntu
[02:00] <ki7mt> One know this if they they knew anything about real support at all.
[02:01] <Ben64> if your analogy is expanded, you and I would be coworkers, and I was informing you of your bad customer service
[02:01] <ki7mt> Im well aware of who the "Customers " are.
[02:01] <ki7mt> Ben64, If you want to look at it that way, sure. Bust me for being wrong, but dont deface the service by doing in public.
[02:02] <Ben64> its a public channel you were told that that isn't good advice, and you refused to accept it
[02:02] <ki7mt> That yields nothing positive at all, for anyone.
[02:03] <ki7mt> Your still not getting it .. it's not what I was told, it's how, good god.
[02:04] <Ben64> you kept pushing it further
[02:05] <ki7mt> Now the next time, if there is a next time, I go in the channel to help, and Im looked upon as a idiot thanks to you all, and the fact of the matter is, my answer "Was No tWrong" it would do exactly what I said it would it just did not meet the approval of others, for "Their Own Reason"
[02:05] <Ben64> see, you still won't accept that you were wrong
[02:05] <Ben64> just learn from this already
[02:05] <ki7mt> Ben64, This is going allot further, it's just the beginning, I can assure you.
[02:05] <Ben64> is that some kind of threat
[02:06] <ki7mt> What?
[02:08] <ki7mt> Ben64, I wont accept that I was wrong, because the asnwer I gave would do exactly what I said it would it would "Pin The Kernel".
[02:08] <Ben64> that isn't what you said though
[02:08] <Ben64> and it wasn't a solution to the problem
[02:08] <Ben64> so it was and still is wrong
[02:08] <ki7mt> and are you saying that it would not ping the kernel package?
[02:08] <ki7mt> pin
[02:08] <Ben64> thats not what you said it would do
[02:09] <ki7mt> It may not have been a solution to the problem. I merely said, go look look up the transcript, one way to do x,y,z is to hold the package.
[02:10] <Ben64> you were suggesting that if someone likes a kernel, that they should hold it. which doesn't make sense since the kernel version doesn't change
[02:10] <ki7mt> And are you saying that that holding the package would not affectly freeze the kernel as is?
[02:11] <ki7mt> Ben64, That's another rabbit hole, not going down those, .. go look up what I said.
[02:11] <Ben64> i did, and you're still wrong
[02:11] <ki7mt> How so.
[02:11] <Ben64> you can't retcon when i have channel logs
[02:11] <ki7mt> retcon ?
[02:11] <Ben64> verb verb: retcon; 3rd person present: retcons; past tense: retconned; past participle: retconned; gerund or present participle: retconning; verb: ret-con; 3rd person present: ret-cons; past tense: ret-conned; past participle: ret-conned; gerund or present participle: ret-conning    1.    revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previousl
[02:11] <Ben64> y described events.
[02:12] <ki7mt> I can go get the exact satement if you like, I have them all.
[02:12] <ki7mt> I log every thing that goes on is ever channel I join.
[02:12] <Ben64> me too
[02:13] <ki7mt> That's a wise thing to do.
[02:13] <ki7mt> So, is what I said, not factual, in regards to pinning the package.
[02:14] <ki7mt> I'll rephrase, would it not affectedly freeze that kernel by placing a package hold on it.
[02:14] <Ben64> you keep changing the argument
[02:15] <ki7mt> No, your saying I am wrong. Im saying, it will do what I said, but you wont tell me why what I said wont do what I stated in the channel.
[02:16] <Ben64> in #ubuntu you were saying it like it was a solution to a problem. it isn't.
[02:16] <ki7mt> You all have said, I'm wrong, I'm stupid, it's dumb, it's a security risk, and about ten other things, but what you've not said, will it not hold the package.
[02:16] <Ben64> here you're trying to argue that holding a package holds a package
[02:16] <ki7mt> that's what I said in the channel, Yes
[02:17] <Ben64> i have in fact said that the tool does function
[02:17] <Ben64> which wasn't the original argument at all
[02:17] <Ben64> the whole issue was that doing so removes security updates from the kernel, which is bad
[02:18] <ki7mt> And you all jumped all over me telling me why "I Should Not Do That", my argument allon has been, it should pin the kernel, but you tell me why it wont do that.
[02:18] <Ben64> nobody ever said holding a package wouldn't work
[02:18] <Ben64> its just a really bad idea to do so
[02:19] <ki7mt> Dude, I Understnd the Risks, and Affect, but ANSWER the Questino !! wil it not do what I said?
[02:19] <Ben64> please read above
[02:19] <ki7mt> A simple Yes or No would Suffice.
[02:20] <ki7mt> Your telling me Im wrong, and that's what I said, it would pin the package, so who is wrong.
[02:20] <Ben64> that isn't what you said
[02:20] <ki7mt> So ither pinnign doesn't work, or your statment is inaccurate.
[02:20] <Ben64> that's what you're now trying to argue in this channel
[02:20] <ki7mt> It what I said.
[02:20] <ki7mt> It is what I said.
[02:21] <Ben64> since you log everything, please post where anyone said that pinning wouldn't pin
[02:21] <ki7mt> What I said exactly:  n8s, If you have a kernel you like, putting a hold on the package is one way to ensure it sticky
[02:21] <ki7mt> Now, argue that.
[02:22] <Ben64> terrible advice, and pointless
[02:22] <ki7mt> Now you argue the work "Sticky"
[02:22] <Ben64> same as before
[02:22] <ki7mt> Those are opinions, again !!!
[02:22] <ki7mt> would it not Workk !!!!!!!!!
[02:23] <ki7mt> Answer = =Yes, it would.
[02:24] <ki7mt> Whether you think it's good advise or not, is the issue we're discussing. The question si, Would It Work. Yes it would I think. Now is it the best advise, that's another matter.
[02:24] <Ben64> its bad advice and doesn't belong on #ubuntu
[02:24] <Ben64> and it's irrelevant because once again, the kernel versions DO NOT CHANGE
[02:24] <ki7mt> That's an opinion, why wont you answer the question.
[02:25] <Ben64> what's the question now? you keep changing it
[02:26] <ki7mt> Would putting a hold on the package as suggested not freeze the kernel package as is?
[02:26] <Ben64> nobody ever argued against that
[02:27] <ki7mt> You said I was wrong did you not?
[02:27] <Ben64> it doesn't change the fact that it's bad advice, has no point, solves no problems, and actually creates a host of issues
[02:28] <ki7mt> Now we're back to that again, circle the wagons again.
[02:28] <Ben64> because thats the point that actually matters
[02:28] <ki7mt> Says you.
[02:29] <Ben64> and you still refuse to accept
[02:29] <ki7mt> I never said I didn't agree that is' not a security risk, did ?
[02:29] <ki7mt> I never said, there's maybe other methods did ?
[02:29] <Ben64> then why suggest it at all
[02:29] <Ben64> it doesn't fix anything!
[02:29] <Ben64> just accept it already
[02:29] <ki7mt> I never said anything other than, it's "One Way To Do Something"
[02:30] <Ben64> its not an option
[02:30] <ki7mt> It is, very much so an opinion.
[02:31] <Ben64> it isn't
[02:31] <ki7mt> prove it.
[02:31] <Ben64> it solves a problem that doesn't exist by creating a lot more problems
[02:32] <ki7mt> A host of other issues, how open ended is that .. LOL .. solves no Problemn, sure it does, freezes the kernel, bad advise, it was a suggestion, not the ultimate solution, it certain has a point.
[02:32] <Ben64> there is no point
[02:32] <Ben64> the only reason you've given is "i want to"
[02:33] <Ben64> which is not a valid reason to cut off security updates, much less tell someone in a support channel to do so
[02:33] <ki7mt> Not, I even prefaced th sentence, in English no less.
[02:33] <Ben64> you didn't
[02:34] <Ben64> Nov 18 2015 15:41:42 <ki7mt>	n8s, If you have a kernel you like, putting a hold on the package is one way to ensure it sticky
[02:34] <ki7mt> Do i really need to repaste the sentence again, so we can go over it word for word?
[02:34] <Ben64> 1st off, not english
[02:34] <Ben64> 2nd, the kernel version doesn't change under normal updates anyway
[02:34] <ki7mt> It's not what is it?
[02:35] <Ben64> its still bad advice, shouldn't be given in #ubuntu
[02:35] <ki7mt> The Kernel Package most certainly does change, often.
[02:35] <ki7mt> That's an Option again.
[02:35] <Ben64> the package does sure, not the version
[02:35] <ki7mt> dude, you can't help yourself can you.
[02:35] <Ben64> you can't accept that you're wrong
[02:35] <ki7mt> Finally, a straight answer. ONly took 2 hours.
[02:35] <ki7mt> Im not wrong, you are,
[02:36] <Ben64> you can go ahead and be wrong, don't do so in #ubuntu
[02:36] <ki7mt> Freezing that package will prevent it form changin, or should, thus making it a "sticky bit"  :-)
[02:37] <ki7mt> Stop telling me what to do.
[02:37] <Ben64> i can tell you whatever i like
[02:37] <ki7mt> And if you can prove I intentionally tried to do soething bad or not try to be helpful with that advice, I'll never go in there agian.
[02:37] <Ben64> you're missing the point again
[02:38] <Ben64> nobody is trying to tell you you're a bad person or trying to mislead people
[02:38] <Ben64> i'm trying to educate you
[02:38] <Ben64> what you suggested is a bad idea, and i'm trying to show you why but you keep trying to bring the argument to weird places
[02:38] <Ben64> learn from your mistakes, don't double down
[02:39] <ki7mt> Your hung up on what you think is god like, show me where it's written it's a bad idea to hold a package, any package.
[02:39] <Ben64> no security updates = bad idea
[02:39] <ki7mt> Show ME!!!!
[02:40] <ki7mt> where it's written.
[02:40] <ki7mt> And then show me where it should not be suggested to others.
[02:40] <Ben64> right here -> no security updates = bad idea
[02:41] <ki7mt> Oh, there's that god like complex again, anywone else write it, or did you come up with that yourself?
[02:41] <Ben64> it's common sense
[02:41] <ki7mt> so your argument is, dont ever hold a package, as it's a security risk?
[02:41] <Ben64> right
[02:42] <ki7mt> then we can tell the MOTU guys, delete that package, we dont needed, its a secutiry risk.
[02:42] <Ben64> delete what package
[02:42] <ki7mt> You dont even know what package provides the function LMAO
[02:43] <Ben64> i'm asking you, don't assume
[02:44] <ki7mt> It's s security isk, so flash, java, python, perl, bash, and god knows home many other hundreds of packages available in the repository, may as well get rid of them too.
[02:45] <Ben64> you're not making sense
[02:46] <ki7mt> My typing is bad sorry. You said, dont put a hold on packages as it's a security risk.
[02:46] <Ben64> it's been about 3 hours of you rambling around trying to make yourself feel correct, i'm done now. Please read the above again when you're in a mood to actually learn something. Until then, don't make bad suggestions in #ubuntu
[02:46] <ki7mt> I say, well then, my as well get rid of hundreds of packages, if not thousands, as they are all security risks.
[02:47] <ki7mt> OpenSSH and Bash exploits come to mind, should we remove those packages.
[02:48] <Ben64> that's why they get security updates.
[02:48] <ki7mt> Ben64, I'll make whatever suggestions I feel is appropriate.
[02:49] <Ben64> and if they're wrong, get ready to be informed of that
[02:49] <daftykins> ^ +1
[02:50] <ki7mt> daftykins, Is that a threat, or promise?
[02:50] <daftykins> that's a really stupid question
[02:51] <ki7mt> usually, in your case, obviously we need to make an exception.
[02:51] <ki7mt> daftykins, what is stupid about the question?
[02:52] <ki7mt> at least this time you attacked the statement, not the person making it, that's progress, however so slight.
[02:53] <daftykins> i do not need to make progress when it comes to aspie trolls such as yourself.
[02:54] <ki7mt> Now I am a troll, I'll and hat to the list. And what may I ask, do you men by Troll?
[02:54] <daftykins> i don't have the patience to pander to your pathetic drama any longer, get lost.
[02:55] <ki7mt> daftykins, You called me a Troll, I would like to know what that means.
[02:56] <ki7mt> The Channel Topic says: We follow the CoC at all times here | No ranting here please
[02:56] <ki7mt> That must not apply to everyone here.
[03:01] <ki7mt> daftykins, I dont think this is in the CoC is it ?: <daftykins> i have to admit i kinda pushed that guy a bit further so he'd get himself kicked
[03:02] <ki7mt> If it is, I must be missing a chapter.
[03:48] <OerHeks> http://www.bing.com/search?q=ubuntu+port+53
[03:49] <daftykins> :)
[03:50] <OerHeks> i like bing more than google, now you know
[04:11] <Ben64> eww
[04:12] <daftykins> i guess you just "binged it" ;)
[04:13] <OerHeks> bing on chrome ..
[04:15] <daftykins> you made Bashing leave ;)
[04:16] <OerHeks> I am so not sorry.
[04:17]  * OerHeks likes bashing-0m
[04:17] <daftykins> :D
[04:31] <daftykins> intel ivybridge (gen3) doesn't have dual-link DVI, how rude! so it's 1920x1200 max
[04:36] <daftykins> g'night team \o
[04:37] <OerHeks> gn daftykins
[05:23] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:29] <lotuspsychje> ms goes opensource
[05:29] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/microsoft-open-sources-visual-studio-code-for-gnu-linux-os-x-and-windows-496393.shtml
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> morning Latrodectus
[05:47] <Latrodectus> night lotuspsychje
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: excited for your new work?
[05:48] <Latrodectus> yes
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: what will you have to do exactly?
[05:48] <Latrodectus> it's tiring, but it's a job
[06:01] <Latrodectus> lotuspsychje: i have to do my job, and not fuck it up...
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> k
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: still no ota8 :p
[06:41] <OerHeks> Today, sunshine
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> its rainy here :p
[06:42] <OerHeks> OTA-8 will start phasing in today
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> great
[07:19] <OerHeks> lotuspsychje, lets write an Ubuntu manual together ... it will be a hit: Ubuntu manual - how *not* to do stuff
[07:19] <OerHeks> we have plenty of logs now
[08:00] <Ben64> you missed all the fun in here earlier
[08:01] <OerHeks> oh, we have the logs Ben64
[08:02] <Ben64> it belongs in some kind of museum
[08:02] <OerHeks> hips,  Microsoft published the Visual Code Studio sources on the GitHub project hosting website https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode
[08:05] <OerHeks> Ben64, well, it might be a stupid idea, but i think worth a try, .. and if someone comes with that stupid idea to uncomment security updates, point them to the book ( that i'd like to write with others like you)
[08:06] <OerHeks> or as title:   DON'T USE UBUNTU (this way)
[08:06] <OerHeks> :-D
[08:09] <TJ-> G'morning
[08:12] <OerHeks> hi TJ-
[08:18] <OerHeks> TJ-, he wants to copy his client ssh key to the server, as i understand ?
[08:19]  * OerHeks is a little confused
[08:19] <TJ-> Me too at the moment
[08:20] <TJ-> if the server changes the IP address then he's going to keep getting a client-side challenge about accepting the server's key fingerprint
[08:20] <OerHeks> Yes, that i understand, unlikely the server changes ip
[08:21] <TJ-> I think maybe he's confused over what the local client does
[08:22] <TJ-> You know how I seem to attract all the most complicated issues?
[08:22] <TJ-> Took me almsot 24 hours continusouly yesterday to upgrade my HTC M8 from Cyanogenmod 11 to 12.1 (Lollipop) - everything I was supposed to do wouldn't work for some reason or other, and I had to jump through hoops!
[08:23] <TJ-> It made me realise how enjoyable the same experience on GNU/Linux actually is!
[08:25] <OerHeks> TJ-, i notice that, qualified helpers can stay for a few hours, then they are burned up. it is pretty intensive, irc help.
[08:27] <TJ-> Certainly IRC is much harder than real support.
[08:28] <TJ-> You've got to out-think the actions of clueless.positively crazy users, without any chance to actual observe what they're doing that might make things worse :)
[08:30] <OerHeks> complete description of actions, or situation, is key.
[08:33] <TJ-> One of my companies pioneered remote support many many years ago; When you've done that and can get on and fix a system in a couple of minutes IRC is like going back to the stone-age :)
[08:33] <OerHeks> remote support, like teamviewer or phone?
[08:36] <TJ-> as in a permanent network connection to the client's network over VPN, and ability to be remotely controlling the problem PC within about 10 seconds of a support call coming in.
[08:37] <TJ-> most issues were user-created, and if you can get in quick 95% take no more than 5 minutes to solve, including warning the user as to proper conduct in future.
[08:39] <TJ-> We had monitoring systems in-house that'd pre-emptively warn us of emerging issues too, so we could head them off before they caused knock on effects - obvious things like getting close to running out of disk space, or log messages warning of some system problem
[08:39] <OerHeks> Ah, i see, but then you know the hardware profile, saves a lot of time too.
[08:40] <OerHeks> here we don't know the hardware, software version, not even the level of knowledge by the user. and he has to type too.
[08:42] <TJ-> right, but when youv'e got thousands of systems being managed in reality there's rarely much history for each individual system, so you've still got to get up-to-speed. The difference is you've got control and quickly do all the essential background research of system/config/logs without a user to mediate between you and the system
[08:46] <TJ-> hmmm, looks like norc is getting rather confused and blaming the wrong thing for the problems.
[08:49] <Ben64> OerHeks: he did mention wanting to see it in writing that disabling security updates is not a good idea
[08:49] <Ben64> so please do write that book
[08:49] <OerHeks> i will !
[08:50] <OerHeks> :-D
[08:50] <Ben64> and yeah, the hardest part of support is figuring out whats going on
[08:51] <TJ-> logs logs and more logs :)
[08:52] <Ben64> well when a user comes in, "I have a problem"
[08:52] <Ben64> and you have to play 20 questions to figure out the issue in the first place
[08:52] <TJ-> I recall one time during winter storms we had a call "my Internet isn't working" and our quick-thinking techie asked "Did you get any trees blown down?" ... telegraph lines were felled :)
[08:53] <Ben64> I used to live in texas, working in tech support in person
[08:53] <TJ-> Ben64: right, that's where the cost is. Everything you do to pre-empt that is money in the bank
[08:53] <Ben64> I had to keep track of when thunderstorms were, because all the broken PSUs came in after that
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
[09:20] <TJ-> g'morning :)
[09:21] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: what you think of this: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/11/17/magicstick-and-ubuntu-core-redefining-the-pc-on-stick-experience/
[09:22] <lotuspsychje> hi there ki7mt :p
[09:22] <ki7mt> Hello
[09:24] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: a lot of marketing hype there... "tap on it to launch it" ... so the stick magically turns the TV into a touchscreen does it?!
[09:24] <TJ-> "Every app is just a few taps away on your TV."
[09:24] <lotuspsychje> well i like the idea of ubuntu on every machine
[09:25] <TJ-> I like how they omit the keyboard and pointing device
[09:25] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[09:27] <TJ-> If they'd engage in honest advertising I might be more appreciative; as it is I think it's all marketing hoo-har and no substance. I'd like to see someone 'enjoy' the experience shown in that photo... how far away are they from the screen? they must have a telescope to read the text!
[09:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:28] <lotuspsychje> well smart tv is pretty far away aswell
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> and depends how big the tv is also
[09:29] <TJ-> right, and renders a few objects relatively large, and uses something like 140 pixel height fonts
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> on a 60" tv :p
[09:30] <TJ-> I have no problems with the 'idea' but all I see there is wishful thinking rather than something that most people would find comfortable in reality.
[09:30] <lotuspsychje> a friend of mine has this samsung 60" on his wall watching 1080P blurays
[09:30] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah i understand where you going
[09:30] <lotuspsychje> the real deal instaed of blingbling
[09:31] <TJ-> the large screens are great if you're in a large room; I have one that's 10 meters from the sofa and that just about works nicely
[09:31] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: how many "
[09:31] <OerHeks> bigger than 25" is too big, i think, even from 10 ft away
[09:32] <lotuspsychje> we have a 40" in about 5meters and were pretty happy with it
[09:33] <lotuspsychje> hmm thats the first ive seen this http://trentaos.org/
[09:33] <OerHeks> oke, my living room is 4 x 6 .. maybe i should get a bigger house
[09:34] <TJ-> 60" Samsung
[09:34] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: nice :p
[09:34] <TJ-> only really watch BBC News on it :)
[09:35] <lotuspsychje> what a spoil TJ- :p
[09:35] <TJ-> Well, whilst Eddie is away at uni... when he's back it'll be movies I'm sure
[09:36] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: you need a 80gig bluray bdwmv :p
[09:37] <TJ-> I don't have the time to use it; only time it'd get used is for house parties
[09:37]  * OerHeks needs a 70" 8k UHDTV with Dolby Surround 22.2 & betamax
[09:37] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:37] <TJ-> LOL @ "needs"
[09:38]  * lotuspsychje wants a houseparty too
[09:38] <OerHeks> it is *just* 1m77
[09:38] <lotuspsychje> i recently helped my brother in law with a 4K samsung that had mbt clouding
[09:39] <lotuspsychje> seems like samsung cant repair that
[09:39] <TJ-> We'll send you an invite next year. I had been thinking about hosting an Ubuntu get-together next spring
[09:39] <TJ-> can't repair it?
[09:39] <lotuspsychje> and i had to play around with brightness/contrast/led backlight
[09:39] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: samsungs service doesnt aknowledges it as a defect
[09:39] <TJ-> what's 'mbt' ?
[09:40] <TJ-> I could only think Mountain Mike :P
[09:40] <OerHeks> sounds nice, get-together meet&greet, in Europe or the States?
[09:40] <TJ-> s/Mike/Bike/ !
[09:40] <lotuspsychje> not sure, but thats what ive looked up
[09:40] <lotuspsychje> clouding/bleeding
[09:40] <TJ-> OerHeks: Europe, here in the U.K.
[09:40] <OerHeks> oh oke, UK is doable, Ferry trip is not that expensive
[09:40] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: hmmm... I'd best keep an eye open for that.
[09:41] <OerHeks> tent, sleeping bag and air mattress, whoppa!
[09:41] <TJ-> OerHeks: lol errr no I think we can do better than that!
[09:42] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ebpM4yLSg
[09:42] <OerHeks> and a lorry for my pc,monitor, keyboard and such ..
[09:43] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: uk, netherlands and belgium not all far away
[09:43] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: oh, yeah, I see that. no big deal.
[09:44] <lotuspsychje> we should actually meet one day :p
[09:44] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu lanparty lol
[09:44] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's what I've been thinking... it'd be nice for us to actually meet and get to know each other aside from techy support
[09:45] <OerHeks> yeah lotus, i was thinking about that too, for a long time, last big meeting here in nl was with the release of 10.04
[09:45] <lotuspsychje> nice
[09:45] <OerHeks> since then .. ubuntu-nl is a little dead
[09:46] <TJ-> I've been looking at buying a farm in Kent which is the bit near the white cliffs of dover so it'd make a good location for hosting a gathering for UK and the continent
[09:47] <lotuspsychje> would be cool
[09:47] <lotuspsychje> dover is only a boat away from me
[09:47] <OerHeks> and a chance to visit Canonical, London :-D
[09:47] <lotuspsychje> lets hope the war victims from calais doesnt come steal the gear :p
[09:48] <TJ-> OerHeks: Errr!
[09:48] <OerHeks> ...??
[09:48] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:48] <TJ-> OerHeks: we could organise a Denial of Service party :p
[09:48] <lotuspsychje> TJ-:  doenst liek the big dogs :p
[09:48] <lotuspsychje> haha
[09:49] <OerHeks> Denial-Of-IRC-Helpdesk-Service-Party \o/
[09:49] <lotuspsychje> d4rk ubuntu connecting canonical servers
[09:49] <OerHeks> we should all login, and be quiet
[09:50] <lotuspsychje> by the way we have an anonymous vs isis on freenode :p #opparis
[09:50] <TJ-> You couldn't be quiet if you tried :D
[09:50] <TJ-> All we have to do is say "I've got a black screen" and you'd have to shout out "!nomodeset" :D
[09:50] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:50] <OerHeks> Turn it on, man!
[09:50] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: not very anonymous then :D
[09:51] <lotuspsychje> your computer has been h4cked by !nomodeset
[09:51] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: nope, the official is anonops ssl :p
[09:51] <TJ-> I'd love to, as a stunt, recompile the kernel so all the command line parameters need to be entered in reverse: "tesedomtes"
[09:52] <TJ-> oops, missed the "on" off that!
[09:53] <lotuspsychje> :p
[09:53] <OerHeks> Molloh, thank you for visiting the Official Ubuntu IRC channel!
[09:53] <TJ-> See? it'd be real fun... that and a support house party with a slightly tipsy (drunk) agents :)
[09:53] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[09:54]  * lotuspsychje isnt getting drunk by few british drinks :p
[09:54] <TJ-> Let's launch our own distro: utnubu.moc
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:57] <OerHeks> I will have my 1st Guiness ..
[09:57] <lotuspsychje> and i my kilkinny
[09:57]  * OerHeks can dance
[09:58] <TJ-> We'll have it on draught for you, we're going to install a bar
[09:58]  * lotuspsychje flows down the heineken down the river
[09:58] <lotuspsychje> how about we just stick with belgian beer :p
[09:58]  * TJ- throws lotuspsychje a paddle
[09:59] <OerHeks> I am so sad, no shop sells Koninck beer anymore :-(
[09:59] <TJ-> I wonder if anyone's created a network/heat map of the Debian/Ubuntu derivatives, it'd be useful to understand the relationships and the relative popularity of them all
[10:00] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: lol your such an out-of-the-box thinker :p
[10:00] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you know thats an actual career/job internet thinker?
[10:04] <TJ-> yeah, that's always been my thing :)
[10:05] <OerHeks> There are so many forks .. Mint, Elementary, .. i think i named the important ones
[10:05] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i saw an interview on the docu of panopticon on the internet thinker
[10:05] <lotuspsychje> about internet/privacy/big brother
[10:06] <lotuspsychje> mint brrrr
[10:06] <OerHeks> I have never installed mate, nor windows on this pc.
[10:07] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good pc :p
[10:07] <OerHeks> .. or Fedora
[10:07] <OerHeks> .. or 15.10
[10:07] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[10:08] <OerHeks> Actually, it is a HP machine, with an win7 license ....
[10:08] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-desktop-with-unity-8-to-handle-background-apps-and-file-access-differently-496410.shtml
[10:10] <TJ-> I might build a test-bed that deploys the derivatives and auto-analyses all the differences caused, so we have actual hard data on what the differences are, rather than just saying "it isn't supported" we could then say *why* it wasn't - i.e. the differences that make it unique
[10:11] <lotuspsychje> good idea
[10:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I wish I hadn't seen that article, it's put my heckles up immediately with the sub-headline: "the Ubuntu developers are still analyzing how much access will be granted to users"
[10:12] <TJ-> What. The. $)^^)$£! are they thinking!?
[10:12] <lotuspsychje> lol
[10:12] <lotuspsychje> brb laundry
[10:12] <TJ-> "... the new version of the OS will most likely land on the desktop with all the restrictions in place, ..."
[10:13] <TJ-> time to abandon ship methinks
[10:16] <OerHeks> like the USC, hard coded unity bar, etc?
[10:18] <TJ-> the restrictions they're talking about is about running other applications in the background, access to the file-system, and so on
[10:18] <TJ-> If anyone had doubts about Canonical not understanding what the F in F/OSS means, this really crystalises it
[10:19] <OerHeks> But that article says it is during the development stage ..
[10:20] <OerHeks> MS goes open source, Ubuntu goes closed binairy blob
[10:20] <OerHeks> worldis changing rapidly, people
[10:21] <OerHeks> maybe the world is going to swing on its axes ...
[10:21] <OerHeks> \o/
[10:22] <TJ-> Imagine the support headaches if the user themselves cannot access key parts of the file-system
[10:22] <lotuspsychje> where there is money, weird things happen
[10:22] <TJ-> no, its not money, its 'control'
[10:23] <lotuspsychje> thats the same thing
[10:23] <TJ-> No, it isn't.
[10:25] <lotuspsychje> if you have money, you can control others
[10:25] <TJ-> I've been considering launching a funded alternative for a while now, but with a strong legal community controlled constitution so these kind of 'visionary' centralised creeping changes can't be done.
[10:28] <TJ-> Debian++ sort of basis
[10:28] <OerHeks> With all these new changes, MIR/wayland, phone, tv/car/IOT ..
[10:28] <OerHeks> i think i'll stick with ubuntu for now :-(
[10:28] <lotuspsychje> lol
[10:29] <OerHeks> Some are disappointed about Kubuntu ..
[10:29] <lotuspsychje> yeah blueskaj told me dodnt like where plasma is going
[10:30] <lotuspsychje> and would like to stick to kde for its features
[10:30] <lotuspsychje> isnt here like a kde fallback like we have gnome fallback?
[10:35] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: greetings mate
[10:35] <cfhowlett> hideeho lotuspsychje
[10:36] <TJ-> I've long thought the main 'problem' with open-source is that it mainly is driven by developers satisfying their own desire to challenge and try out new things, rather than focusing on a stable overall design and goal and improving that incrementally, so we get all these disruptive changes in the core experience simpy because the key developers have got bored with things
[10:36] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i totaly agree on that
[10:36] <TJ-> that's also its best trait too, so how we 'square the circle' is a difficult problem
[10:36] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but if your a dev, thats being like an inventor right?
[10:37] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: the community cant choose what a dev invents?
[10:37] <TJ-> my main objection is to never rip out existing functionality before you've got equivalent replacements in-place and working
[10:37] <lotuspsychje> yeah i really hope they wont rip out solid trusty stuff for xenial :p
[10:38] <TJ-> correct, but having a settled design and roadmap that everyone can understand would go a long way, as would devs actually talking to the end users in the 'long tail'
[10:38] <lotuspsychje> thats like a dream scenario :p
[10:38] <lotuspsychje> but in the real field, things go otherwise
[10:38] <TJ-> Above all, users should have the choice to keep things as they are for them, even if the underlying system focuses in a different direction
[10:38] <lotuspsychje> thats a nice one
[10:39] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: this should be in topic :p
[10:39] <TJ-> I have no objection to doing new things - I want that - but I do object to upsetting a users expectations and settled exerperience - when you cause disruption you generate negative feelings and lose support
[10:40] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: wasnt that how linux distro's started, big full cd/dvd with the user choosing packages/flavors
[10:40] <TJ-> I'm a dev - I know the itch, but I also like to think I'm professional and respect my users
[10:40] <lotuspsychje> kde,gnome,enlightment,..
[10:40] <TJ-> right, but those choices didn't keep ripping out major functionality ... at that time they were incrementally adding to the existing experience
[10:41] <lotuspsychje> true
[10:41] <TJ-> We had it with KDE, then Gnome, Unity and now KDE/plasma,
[10:41] <TJ-> that's the user-facing, mass-market part that everyone experiences.
[10:42] <TJ-> Server-side the biggest disruptions have been Upstart and now Systemd, but Systemd is doing good things mostly (although breaking my rule of not replacing components until it has equivalent functionality)
[10:42] <lotuspsychje> the user gets drowned in so many distro's
[10:43] <TJ-> I was musing the other day of designing a super-distro that can take and use packages from any other distro no matter what packaging system it has. LXC makes that quite practical now
[10:44] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: im real curious where this all will go
[10:45] <TJ-> Like - and this is a major issue I think - instead of creating all this new stuff that causes turbulence, how about focusing on building an internal monitoring system that picks up on installation issues and reports/auto-fixes them. The number of issues we see that could be avoided or automatically fixed is massive.
[10:45] <lotuspsychje> i like the auto-fix idea
[10:45] <TJ-> Yo've only got to look at the logs - especially $HOME/.xsession-errors - to see that the developers are not checking how their programs are misbehaving. The code is, bluntly, crap!
[10:48] <lotuspsychje> there should be more practical devs like you TJ-
[10:48] <lotuspsychje> feet on the ground thinking
[10:48] <TJ-> auto-fix would spot 'issue fingerprints' from the logs, and then query a distro server for related/the same issues and download a specific diagnostic shell script. That would do further specific in-depth investigation, report back to the bug/issue tracker, and if available download a 'fixer' script for the specific issue. It'd then tell the user, ask them if they wanted to attempt a fix, and if the
[10:48] <TJ-> user approves, would create a snapshot of the system at that point, make the 'fix', ask the user to test it and if OK accept it. If not accepted, roll-back to the snapshot and carry on
[10:48] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: if ubuntu brainstorm would still exist
[10:48] <TJ-> All this is stuff I'm - slowly - working on myself, to create a secure (encryption from boot), auto-healing  distro
[10:49] <TJ-> Whatever a distro does, the owner/operator of the PC should be, and feel to be, in positive control of their PCs destiny
[10:50] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: not going to be easy, with so many diff hardware?
[10:50] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: hardware doesn't matter; in fact, hardware issues are the easiest to diagnose and fix!
[10:50] <TJ-> hardest part is user interface issues
[10:50] <lotuspsychje> right
[10:51] <lotuspsychje> morning Ben64
[10:51] <Ben64> hello
[10:51] <TJ-> which is where snapshots come in. I use git to manage all changes to my .dotfiles .dotdirs config in $HOME, triggered recently by inotify watches on the key dirs. That way, I can instantly roll-back any and all changes. If that were a standard part of all installs... well... we'd have so many less issues and users could quickly fix their own problems
[10:52] <Ben64> it's 2:51am btw
[10:52] <lotuspsychje> night :p
[10:52] <TJ-> Ben64: you're late!
[10:52] <Ben64> had to cut power to test a GFCI outlet
[10:52] <Ben64> turns out, no voltage from hot to neutral
[10:52] <Ben64> very strange
[10:53] <TJ-> mice eaten through the cable?
[10:54] <Ben64> i hope not
[10:54] <Ben64> don't really get much of that in this area though
[10:54] <Ben64> more likely the previous owners did dumb stuff with the wiring
[10:54] <Ben64> i've seen it in many other places in the house
[10:55] <Ben64> old 1970s ceiling light above bathtub, one of those light socket -> outlet things, plugged into a fluorescent light box, in a box made of 2x4s
[10:56] <Ben64> i'm surprised it didn't start a fire
[10:56] <lotuspsychje> lol
[10:57] <TJ-> crikey!
[10:57] <TJ-> well, be glad you haven't got wiring from the early 1900s :)
[10:57] <Ben64> yeah thats good
[10:57] <Ben64> i've seen those... cloth insulation
[10:59] <Ben64> aluminum wiring sucks too
[10:59] <TJ-> right. I'm aiming to replace almost everything with 2-core copper 12V DC
[11:01] <Ben64> 12v?
[11:02] <TJ-> yeah, very little need for 240V AC around now most devices are digital, with the exception of ktichen/laundry
[11:02] <TJ-> Hoping to go 100% off-grid with our own generation capacity
[11:02] <Ben64> that's awesome
[11:02] <Ben64> isn't it hard to power most things with 12v though
[11:02] <Ben64> computers, tv, etc
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> ive got 16/19v solar panel to branch smartphones/laptops on
[11:03] <TJ-> No, most take 12V by default. PCs are 12V DC or less. Many monitors have 12V inputs or can be adapted, as can many LED TVs
[11:04] <Ben64> hmm
[11:06] <TJ-> In my study I have a 12V run and a 5V run. I use standard outlets for each (5V is USB A, 12V is barrels)
[11:07] <TJ-> power comes from some large lorry/tractor/RV type batteries which are charged from solar, wind, and mains as needed. Just need to up the charging capacity and add a few more batteries so it can cope with a weeks worth of load without a charge
[11:08] <Ben64> sounds good
[11:10] <Ben64> would you run into problems with cable length though
[11:10] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: do you charge batteries from the solar panel, or charge directly?
[11:11] <TJ-> Ben64: shorter the better but using large core and keeping the batteries as close to the loads as possible.
[11:14] <TJ-> I was investigating dual-use recently - using existing copper water pipes to also carry the power. It actually makes sense
[11:17] <cfhowlett> that sounds WAY too exotic or me to mess with.
[11:18] <TJ-> :)
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: it charges the internal battery + charge directly also
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> bbl dinner
[14:20] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[16:30] <lotus|nexus7> updating
[16:34] <daftykins> strange class of folks we're getting in these days
[17:29] <lotus|xenial> good evening to all
[17:29] <daftykins> hallo o/
[17:29] <daftykins> how's lotus today?
[17:29] <lotus|xenial> hey daftykins :p
[17:30] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: fine just updated nexus7 and my bq to OTA8
[17:30] <lotus|xenial> rocknroll :p
[17:30] <lotus|xenial> what are you busy with daftykins
[17:31] <daftykins> well i got given the Nexus 5 my friend promised, today
[17:31] <daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5-2.jpg :)
[17:31] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: new or 2nd hand?
[17:31] <daftykins> very much second hand :> but free!
[17:31] <daftykins> i've got a screen on order but it'll take until December to arrive :(
[17:32] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: you sure the insides are intact?
[17:32] <daftykins> yeah he's a mate i know well so he was using it for ages until the screen cracked enough that the above was how it looked
[17:32] <daftykins> in fact when i pressed on it, i saw a message window display clearly
[17:33] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: will you put touch on it?
[17:33] <daftykins> no
[17:33] <daftykins> if it works properly it'll be an option to move up from my Nexus 4 maybe
[17:33] <lotus|xenial> ah nexus4 should work fine, n5 still got issues i think
[17:33] <daftykins> i don't have any interest really :)
[17:34] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: for smartphone use you mean?
[17:35] <daftykins> in most things ubuntu for desktop and phone, really
[17:36] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: running win for desktop?
[17:37] <daftykins> depends on the system i'm on
[17:37] <lotus|xenial> ah kk
[17:37] <daftykins> but yeah, mostly :)
[17:37] <lotus|xenial> !info xpad
[17:38] <lotus|xenial> !info xpad xenial
[17:38] <lotus|xenial> ah same
[17:38] <lotus|xenial> this1 doesnt crash on xenial :p
[17:42] <lotus|xenial> oO
[17:44] <daftykins> or does it!?
[17:45] <lotus|xenial> lol no, regular system crash :p
[17:49] <lotus|xenial> http://oi66.tinypic.com/b3whs6.jpg
[17:49] <lotus|xenial> xenial wobbly windows :p
[17:50] <daftykins> such a fast IRC client, it's racing from left to right!
[17:51] <lotus|xenial> lol
[17:51] <daftykins> that really reminds me of a logo but i can't think which!
[17:51] <lotus|xenial> hey BluesKaj
[17:52] <BluesKaj> hey lotus|xenial
[17:52] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: 'run' from windows? :p
[17:52] <daftykins> yes it is! :D
[17:53] <daftykins> i am impressed, i knew i had seen it somewhere
[17:53] <lotus|xenial> BluesKaj: you just missed my xenial wobbly windows shot: http://oi66.tinypic.com/b3whs6.jpg
[17:55] <BluesKaj> oh wobbly windows...haven't used it in a while, mainly used it to impress my windows buddies ;-)
[17:55] <lotus|xenial> lol
[17:56] <BluesKaj> about all it's meant for IMO
[17:56] <lotus|xenial> and then run winblows in a VM and wobble with it
[17:56] <lotus|xenial> 'wobbly windows'
[17:56]  * lotus|xenial hides for daftykins 
[17:56] <daftykins> XD
[17:57] <daftykins> and possibly making your PC consume more power, to heat your home in winter
[17:57] <BluesKaj> I've had enough of windows for a while , with all the tomfolery around the W10 upgrades , what a pita
[17:57] <lotus|xenial> :p:p
[17:59] <daftykins> tomfoolery?
[18:00] <daftykins> works for me :) i'll still keep people on 7 though, for business folk
[18:05] <lotus|xenial> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-ota-8-update-officially-released-496432.shtml
[18:09] <BluesKaj> daftykins, yeah , it's foolishness to me , should have stuck with W7
[18:10] <BluesKaj> I don't like the "look"
[18:32] <daftykins> mmm lots of white to begin with, the latest build or "fall update" has already changed a lot of that
[18:35] <daftykins> nooo lotus invites all the riff raff
[18:35] <lotus|xenial> lol
[18:35] <lotus|xenial> this is the hardest channel to get idlers in
[18:35] <lotus|xenial> dont worry
[18:35] <daftykins> ;)
[18:35] <lotus|xenial> after 2hours they leave and you never see them back
[18:36] <lotus|xenial> even the hard volunteers keep forgetting to add to favs
[18:36] <daftykins> we can't even keep eric in ;_;
[18:36] <lotus|xenial> yeah lol
[18:36] <lotus|xenial> and monkeydust
[18:36] <lotus|xenial> and ioria
[18:36] <lotus|xenial> and your friend, hackerII wahaha
[18:37] <daftykins> i only just spotted Missl0tus ! hi o/
[18:38] <lotus|xenial> lol
[18:38] <lotus|xenial> Missl0tus: be friendly to him!$
[18:39] <daftykins> wow IRC under duress... :)
[18:39] <Missl0tus> lol
[18:39] <Missl0tus> hello!
[18:39] <Missl0tus> :p
[18:39] <daftykins> ah you have pinched the other computer, excellent
[18:40] <lotus|xenial> yep im upstairs on xenial box again
[18:40] <Missl0tus> otherwise I have no computer here
[18:40] <Missl0tus> lol
[18:40] <daftykins> do you tend to get by without?
[18:40] <daftykins> i know a lot of folk can't stand to see them once they finish work
[18:40] <lotus|xenial> its true, im clamining it most of the time
[18:41] <Missl0tus> we are a nice couple he's upstairs and I am downstairs
[18:41] <Missl0tus> ...
[18:41] <Missl0tus> :p
[18:41] <lotus|xenial> lol
[18:41] <daftykins> "absence makes the heart grow fonder"
[18:41] <lotus|xenial> shhhhh; dont tell all our secrets public
[18:41] <daftykins> perhaps you can email him a recipe to do for dinner, Missl0tus ?
[18:41] <lotus|xenial> we just had french fries with horse eye eggs
[18:41] <daftykins> though i guess you guys have already done that in your timezone :>
[18:41] <daftykins> horse eye o0
[18:42] <lotus|xenial> humm
[18:42] <Missl0tus> :p
[18:42] <Missl0tus> lol
[18:42] <lotus|xenial> not sure how its called in english lol
[18:42] <lotus|xenial> the yellow of the egg complete?
[18:42] <daftykins> i just had a couple of bacon sandwiches, mmm
[18:42] <daftykins> oh right, yolk on its' own?
[18:42] <lotus|xenial> like scrambled eggs, but not scrambled lol
[18:43] <lotus|xenial> wait a google pic
[18:43] <Missl0tus> the yellow of the egg complete lol
[18:44] <lotus|xenial> lol
[18:44] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: http://static4.koken.vtm.be/sites/koken.vtm.be/files/recipe/image/istock_000002975400small.jpg
[18:44] <lotus|xenial> Missl0tus: you say it in english!
[18:44] <daftykins> ah just normal fried egg i'd call that
[18:44] <Missl0tus> the boiled egg fried egg, sunny side up
[18:44] <daftykins> :D
[18:45] <lotus|xenial> grrrr you googled it cheater Missl0tus
[18:45] <Missl0tus> yes yes
[18:45] <lotus|xenial> hahaha
[18:45] <daftykins> :O
[18:46] <Missl0tus> horse eye lol
[18:46] <daftykins> that'd be one very sick horse
[18:46] <lotus|xenial> hehe
[18:46] <daftykins> :D
[18:46] <Missl0tus> lol
[18:46] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: so how would you call this then? http://rachelcooksthai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/fried-egg-1.jpg
[18:46] <daftykins> an accident
[18:46] <lotus|xenial> wahaha
[18:47] <daftykins> looks like an omelette :)
[18:47] <lotus|xenial> but an omelette is also fryed, in the pan?
[18:47] <daftykins> ja
[18:47] <lotus|xenial> lol
[18:47] <lotus|xenial> you dont have a special name for horse eye? :p
[18:47] <daftykins> ok you win, i am no eggxpert
[18:47] <lotus|xenial> :p
[18:49] <daftykins> i'm going to reassemble this broken phone and put a SIM in, see if i can call it XD
[18:49] <lotus|xenial> cool
[18:49] <lotus|xenial> give it a second life
[18:49] <daftykins> oh yeah it's going to be fine hopefully once i receive the new screen, it's just likely weeks away on delivery :(
[18:53] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: overseas delivery?
[18:54] <daftykins> yeah cheap Hong Kong ebay job
[18:54] <lotus|xenial> goold ol china :p
[18:55] <daftykins> :D
[18:55] <daftykins> £26 for the 1080p phone LCD, digitiser, glass and front casing O_O
[18:55] <lotus|xenial> oO
[18:57] <daftykins> i don't 100% believe it if i'm honest :)
[18:58] <Missl0tus> http://www.123rf.com/photo_38902195_breakfast-with-croissants-orange-juice-and-coffee.html
[18:58] <Missl0tus> *hint
[18:58] <Missl0tus> tomorrow
[18:58] <lotus|xenial> mmmmm
[18:59] <Missl0tus> hard-boiled egg!
[18:59] <Missl0tus> :p
[18:59] <lotus|xenial> ill wait patienctly in my bed Missl0tus
[18:59] <Missl0tus> haha
[18:59] <lotus|xenial> :p
[19:10] <daftykins> you'll be waiting a long, long time ;)
[19:10] <lotus|xenial> lol
[19:10] <Missl0tus> :-)
[19:10] <lotus|xenial> she knows the way to the bakery
[19:10] <Missl0tus> he's so nice
[19:10] <Missl0tus> lol
[19:11] <Missl0tus> romantisch
[19:11] <lotus|xenial> romantic you mean
[19:11] <Missl0tus> :p
[19:13] <daftykins> hey it's no good to tease lisps!
[19:13] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: !!!
[19:14] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: OTA8 is alive and kicking
[19:14] <Missl0tus> lol daftykins
[19:14] <OerHeks> hoi lotus, ja ik zag het net :-)
[19:16] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: do you know the english word for 'paardenoog' (omelet)
[19:16] <daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5-3.jpg
[19:16] <daftykins> aww yes fixed! ;)
[19:16] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: looking very techy :p
[19:17] <daftykins> Mischief got in on the first pic - http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg
[19:18] <OerHeks> lotus|xenial, nope, 'paardenoog' looks like a normal egg
[19:19] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: daftykins thinks its fryed eggs, but omelette is also fryed
[19:21] <OerHeks> omelette is egg, milk, salt & pepper, stirred until it is fluffy, then baked?
[19:22] <OerHeks> and if you stirr it during baking, it is scrambled egg ??
[19:22] <lotus|xenial> so fryed egg means its still complete
[19:22] <daftykins> eggs are too complex for moi
[19:22] <lotus|xenial> lol
[19:23] <daftykins> that phone doesn't even turn its' display off, heh
[19:23] <daftykins> ah well, i must wait for the screen :(
[19:24] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: maybe with power+vol down?
[19:24] <daftykins> nah i can see it boot
[19:25] <daftykins> i think it's getting stuck after android comes up though
[19:25] <lotus|xenial> lets hope it didnt break mobo
[19:25] <OerHeks> Is there a Quizz going on in #ubuntu ?
[19:26] <daftykins> lol
[19:26] <daftykins> yeah some kind of locales challenge
[19:26] <lotus|xenial> #ubuntu-touch is even more weird
[19:27] <lotus|xenial> that studio guys is asking weird noob questions for n hour
[19:27] <OerHeks> mir of wayland .. wat is cli?
[19:27] <lotus|xenial> lol
[19:36] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: she got a xorg line from an arch wiki
[19:36] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: i already told her, thats not the way to go..
[19:36] <daftykins> i gave a bunch of links, one was disabling Xorg's backing store, few other params
[19:37] <OerHeks> *him
[19:37] <lotus|xenial> victoria is a him?
[19:37] <daftykins> yeah when this user first came in it was a guy, i think the nick is a cover up to maybe make people help more
[19:37] <daftykins> common tactic
[19:37] <OerHeks> it is just the same attentionseeker that is here all week, man.
[19:37] <lotus|xenial> grmbl
[19:37] <lotus|xenial> whats wrong with these ppl
[19:38] <lotus|xenial> irc crossdressing
[19:39] <daftykins> in all seriousness i've encountered a lot of transgender or otherwise users on freenode
[19:40] <OerHeks> err .. wikipedia is right, 'heks' is most times a woman ... not always
[19:40] <lotus|xenial> :p
[19:42] <lotus|xenial> i thought hacking wasnt allowed on freenode?
[19:42] <lotus|xenial> how did those #opparis guys create this without seeing?
[19:43] <OerHeks> no such channel
[19:44] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: * Now talking on #opparis
[19:44] <daftykins> zomg that phone booted! :D
[19:44] <lotus|xenial> !yay | daftykins
[19:44] <daftykins> \o/
[19:44] <daftykins> it rings, when called too \o/
[19:50] <OerHeks> call me ... mayby ..
[19:50] <OerHeks> is there a thunderstorm worldwide, or earthquake comming?
[19:51] <lotus|xenial> howso OerHeks ?
[19:52] <daftykins> definitely some nasty gloomy weather over here :)
[19:52] <lotus|xenial> rainy here also
[19:53] <daftykins> aaaaand that's enough of ubuntu for today
[19:59] <lotus|xenial> :p
[20:00] <lotus|xenial> ioria: !!!!
[20:01] <lotus|xenial> you found us again
[20:01] <ioria> wow.... are you becoming xenial ?
[20:01] <lotus|xenial> ioria: yes from the start
[20:01] <lotus|xenial> ioria: updated from 15.10
[20:02] <ioria> how it is ? i'm curious
[20:02] <lotus|xenial> ioria: its still in daily image, but pretty sable so far
[20:02] <ioria> good....
[20:03] <ioria> something new  ?
[20:03] <lotus|xenial> ioria: new libreoffice, new firefox
[20:03] <ioria> wow....
[20:03] <lotus|xenial> and lots of internal stuff
[20:03] <lotus|xenial> !info libreoffice xenial
[20:04] <ioria> i'd like to try it....
[20:04] <lotus|xenial> ioria: well still looks mostly like 15.10 for now
[20:05] <lotus|xenial> ioria: but im helping hunting early bugs so
[20:05] <ioria> i see... you are like the Rangers " Always a step ahead  , Horra  !!! "    :þ
[20:06] <lotus|xenial> :p
[20:14] <lotus|xenial> ioria: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-568865930
[20:17] <ioria> lotus|xenial,   that's cool
[20:17] <lotus|xenial> :p
[20:18] <fusioned> hey guys
[20:18] <lotus|xenial> hi
[20:18] <daftykins> \o
[20:18] <fusioned> was trying to get a feel for what games people with Trusty or Ubuntu are playing these days
[20:19] <fusioned> be it naitive, with WINE, emulators, playonlinux, whatevs
[20:19] <lotus|xenial> fusioned: i find shadow of mordor intensive on ubuntu
[20:19] <lotus|xenial> steam game
[20:20] <fusioned> ive heard of that game. what type of game is it like? rpg? mmo?
[20:20] <lotus|xenial> fusioned: check steams database for linux games
[20:20] <lotus|xenial> fusioned: check the shadow of mordor trailer :p
[20:21]  * daftykins pats his xbox
[20:21] <daftykins> ;)
[20:22] <lotus|xenial> :p
[20:22] <fusioned> have you tried Rust?
[20:22] <fusioned> Rust looks kinda cool
[20:22] <lotus|xenial> no im not really a gamer
[20:23] <daftykins> #ubuntu-steam might allow gaming chat, not sure
[20:32] <lotus|xenial> !info links2
[21:24] <lotus|xenial> nite nite all
[21:25] <OerHeks> :-)
[21:25] <lotus|xenial> sudo halt -p
[21:25] <OerHeks> see you soon, maroon
[21:25] <lotus|xenial> OerHeks: byebye ; )
[21:33] <fusioned> gonna kick it old school and play some diablo 2 and half-life and Q3 Arena
[21:33] <fusioned> maybe Manhunt too since it runs well with WINE
[21:42] <damnation> wow
[21:46] <pauljw> :)
[21:48] <daftykins> just don't tell the devs...