krytarikknome: Also, would you be fine with "Common Tasks", rather than "How to..."?00:05
knomethe current title isn't meant to be final00:07
krytarikYeah, just looks and feels weird.00:09
krytarikknome: "<para>Bazaar is a version control system and is commonly referred to as Bzr.</para>" - what should I use for "Bzr" there? I see that flocculant uses '<emphasis>' for the QA docs, but that also makes the text bold.00:17
knomemakes it bold too, but meh00:18
krytarikAlso, was that a "Yes, meh, go ahead."? :P00:18
knomei would probably put this inside a <note>00:19
knomei think <app is better00:19
krytarikIsn't that a bit too much?00:19
knomenah, it's fine00:19
knomeit's not a section you are likely to read over and over again00:19
knomeat least from the beginning to the end00:19
krytarikAlright, I'll do as you suggested then.00:20
krytarikJust to be clear, that's on the top just under the "Bazaar" header.00:21
knomealso, what about calling the howto section "Reference" ?00:21
krytarikWell, I can just leave that to you for later. :P00:22
krytarikSeriously though, I guess that'd be still be than "How to". :D00:25
krytarik- be00:25
krytarik"Common Reference" at least?00:26
krytarikknome: Fine if I rename "processes-release-cycle.xml" to just "release-cycle.xml", consistent to its title and HTML file name?01:16
knomethe filename is referring to a potential structure for the docs, so let's keep it as it is for now01:20
* krytarik reverts01:20
knometime to go to bed01:21
knomethanks for all the work :)01:21
krytarikWell. :D01:22
krytarikAnd night.01:22
knomettyl ->01:22
krytarikAnd if no one wants to beat me to it, I might include command line instructions for the MP part.01:36
=== mhall119 is now known as mhall119|fossetc
krytarikflocculant: This is just for again now, updated: http://paste.openstack.org/show/E3wgCHbwYFoQRZcJrpKf/06:01
flocculantkrytarik - "tell me if you're fine with the some additional changes" can't tell the difference between green, darker green, pink, darker pink, if something changed, what changed on that pastebin thing - so no.07:38
flocculantreally can't see what's going on with the light green/pink stuff :(08:26
flocculantI find MPs a whole lot easier to read :)08:31
knomeflocculant, actually, i find the pastebin better to read than the MPs in most of the places12:27
knomeflocculant, glossary:12:27
knomeflocculant, light pink -> line that has been changed or removed12:27
knomeflocculant, light green -> line that has been changed (the new version) or added12:28
knomethese are basically the pink/green colors of MP12:28
knomeflocculant, the dark pink/green areas highlight the spot in the line(s) that has been changed12:28
knomeflocculant, so you don't exactly have to review the whole line12:28
flocculantkrytarik - mmm actually what's "bzr commit --fixes" about and why the need to change that? Given that none of anything else I've read requires that12:49
flocculantknome: but what about lines where there's no dark pink/green12:49
knomeflocculant, context, like in the MP12:49
flocculantanyway - whatever - when there's actually an MP for it - I'll look then properly12:49
flocculantknome: this is what's confusing me then - because there are at least 2 cases where there are changes and no dark green/red 12:51
knomeyeah :)12:51
flocculantanyway - whatever - when there's actually an MP for it - I'll look then properly :)12:51
flocculantuntil I see that I'm not approving anything from my side 12:51
flocculantobviously I don't care about the <!Entity stuff :)12:59
flocculanttoo care about that I'd need an explanation of something that I don't care to know about :p13:01
krytarikflocculant: "this is what's confusing me then - because there are a15:47
krytarikt least 2 cases where there are changes and no dark green/red" - yeah, those are the annoying cases where it doesn't figure out what really changed, for some reason. :P15:47
krytarikAlso, the '--fixes' option for commits should set the referred bug report status to 'Fix Committed' automatically, while for the MP it just links it to the bug report - as mentioned in both text parts.15:51
krytarikflocculant: And of course, I didn't do any *factual* changes, only DocBook syntax, link anchor texts as mentioned before, consistency, wording, and typos.15:56
slickymasterWorkkrytarik, did you push the MP yet?16:01
krytarikWell, the bug status is only changed when the concerning commit is merged into the main branch, of course - and for no packages it should be set to 'Fix Released' then immediately.16:02
krytarikslickymasterWork: Nope, just started the day. :P16:03
slickymasterWorkgood life :P16:03
krytarikWell, 3 hours ago, but... :D16:03
krytarikAlso, just doing some minor improvements on my yesterday's changes/additions.16:05
slickymasterWorkdrop a link after you made them, please16:06
krytarikAlso, I have no particular idea yet how to include all the recent stuff in the commit message, or changelog even. :P16:07
krytarikslickymasterWork: Nope, I'm never dropping a link to you! :D16:07
* krytarik pats slickymasterWork16:07
flocculantkrytarik: ok - so with --fixes definitely don't want to use that 17:14
krytarikflocculant: Umm, I don't get it.17:14
flocculant"And of course, I didn't do any *factual* changes," yes you did ^^17:14
flocculantplease leave that bzr line as I had it - thanks 17:15
flocculantother than that - the rest is fine with me once I'd fought my way through the pink and green :)17:15
krytarikHeh, alright.17:16
krytarikflocculant: So, you aren't fixing the bug you just reported with the changes you are doing?17:18
flocculantkrytarik: there is a reason - pretty much pointless marking it Commited - nothing really happens to anything until someone physically edits the tracker side - at that point it's immediately fix released17:18
krytarikAlright - so for you, it's just not 'needed'.17:19
flocculantso all that marking them committed does is annoy me with pointless LP messages as I'm subscribed to it - as it's more or less me dealing with it17:19
flocculantkrytarik: not interested in a discussion on it - please lose that change in my qa docs ;)17:19
flocculantbut thanks for all the other bits and bobs - helps the readability :)17:22
flocculantha ha 17:23
flocculantit's always useful for someone else to read things - you never 'read' what you wrote, you 'read' what you think you wrote :)17:23
flocculantkrytarik: and ftr - nice to know about --fixes, just doesn't really do much more than spam mailboxes in this particular thing17:24
krytarikWell, you can read it, but extra work. :P17:24
krytarikSo, I have 'bzr commit -m "Fix LP bug #BUGNO."' now - fine?17:25
flocculantno idea - if that's what it said before then yep :)17:26
krytarikWell, it says 'bzr commit -m "Change re bug#' right now.17:28
flocculantok - happy with that newer wording :)17:28
krytarik\o/ again.17:29
flocculantit was the " those are the annoying cases where it doesn't figure out what really changed" which completely threw me :)17:29
krytarikYeah, like I said, it's annoying. :D17:30
krytarikI might try and use a plain one the next time then. :P17:30
flocculantwell others like it that way - so don't change on my behalf ;)17:31
flocculantI found that if I pretended to reply it sorted those things out 17:31
krytarikYeah, it kind of worked. :D17:34
krytarikAdded the '--fixes' part to the Common Reference now instead.17:37
flocculantok - that's probably useful stuff17:39
flocculantochosi: jenkins is getting closer for the image tests18:30
krytarikflocculant: And sorry, I was more thinking there of how I'm mentioning the '--fixes' option in the MP part of the Common Reference - that was a factual change indeed.18:47
flocculantkrytarik: yea understand that - but Common Reference isn't something I'm too bothered about :)18:48
krytarikYou mean not? :D18:48
krytarikOh wait, no. :P18:49
flocculantno - I mean what I said :D18:49
flocculantthe QA pages isn't something I'm not too bothered about :D18:49
krytarikHence I didn't think of having changed the command there, that is.18:50
krytarikflocculant: Noticed what I did with the <para>'s there though?18:52
flocculantno - not really18:53
flocculantif I was to be more honest :p18:53
krytarikThat is, rather than enclosing lists and such, just end it where the current paragraph ends.18:54
flocculantyea sort of noticed 18:54
flocculantbut as I'm unlikely to be doing much more didn't do more than *shrug* don't know why that is :)18:55
krytarikIt was fine on the other two pages though.18:56
sidiis there any known problem with the lock screen on Xubuntu Trusty? keeps tellng me "This session is locked, youll be redirected bla bla" on my Trusty VM after I unlock the session19:40
knomesidi, you should know better that this is no support channel20:52
flocculantochosi: so is this a gtk3 fail? http://i.imgur.com/1KLCHmU.png21:56
flocculantguessing so - got some updates for it today21:57
Unit193Go to GTK3 they said, it'll be better they said...21:58
flocculantI'd report it if I knew which one out of thousands to report it against ... 21:59
flocculantcalc is awesome :p http://i.imgur.com/guBwH2V.png22:00
krytarikflocculant: How about 'gtk+3.0'?22:01
Unit193Unless, the theme...22:02
flocculantcalc in numix22:03
flocculantadwaita it's the same as greybird22:04
flocculantkrytarik: can't ubuntu-bug gtk3.022:05
krytarikflocculant: With the plus even?22:06
pleia2knome: if you have some time this afternoon, I'm around22:08
knomepleia2, "afternoon"?22:10
pleia2knome: well, whatever time it is right now :)22:12
knomejust past midnight22:13
knomebut i'm here22:13
pleia2what are we supposed to talk about?22:13
knomewait, i'll untangle my headphones first22:14
knomeso, i guess the first thing is getting the contributor docs live/online22:15
knomethey are in the docs branch22:15
knomewe don't have a completely workflow yet for that22:15
* pleia2 updates local copy22:15
knomebut krytarik is working on some last fixes for some of the issues22:15
knomeone question i have22:16
knomeas they are in the same branch/package as the regular docs, they are "release-specific" - even if they aren't22:16
pleia2which branch?22:16
pleia2i mean, not like wily/22:16
knome^ that's xenial22:16
knomeso the newest22:16
knomethe wily branch has outdated stuff already22:17
knomeone of the cons of having them in the same branch22:17
knomeotoh, this way we can share the build stuff22:17
knomeand stylesheets22:17
knomeand everything docbook22:17
* pleia2 nods22:17
knomeand only have to maintain one set of that22:17
knomeso, the question:22:17
knomedo we want to set up the online docs startpage so that we have a link, that we manually update, that points to the newest contributor docs?22:18
pleia2different from the index of docs.x.o itself?22:19
knomeor - my preferred option - do we set up the Makefiles so that you can build the newest contributor docs directly in a subdirectory22:19
knomeno, that thing22:19
knomemy vision is that the contributor docs would be at http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/22:19
knomebut obviously feel free to disagree22:19
knomemaybe if we have more stuff coming for developers, we could consider another location too22:19
pleia2so, speaking to my own process, whenever I build docs I do it locally (build tools are local, not on the webserver) and then upload what I need22:19
pleia2so as long as I have instructions about how to build and what to upload, I don't really mind where we put things22:20
knomewell, actually22:20
knomeone option is this:22:20
knomeset up another subdomain, like contributors.xubuntu.org (or whatever), host it on the same server as the tracker22:20
knomethen the maintaining burden can be shared22:20
pleia2I think docs.x.o makes more sense22:21
knomein that case, on the building quickly:22:21
knomethen see build/contributor-docs22:21
pleia2so, just what I do for the regular docs22:22
knomethat's currently skewed - we need the stuff from krytarik before we are ready to "just do it"22:22
knomebasically so22:22
knomethe main change we are making is that both of the docs have the same depth22:22
knomeso that ../../libs-common is always the same place22:22
knomethis helps us build the contributor docs in the shipped package too22:23
knomebut that's kind of minutiae22:23
knomeonce krytarik has done the merge proposal, and the stuff is merged, we'd like an initial push ASAP22:23
knomeso we can start ripping the wiki stuff down22:23
knomeand make the website more user-oriented again (and just link to this documentation)22:24
pleia2I'm home through Tuesday of next week (fly out for the holiday on Wednesday), back on Nov 3022:24
knomewe should have it up by then22:25
knomethat is, tuesday22:25
pleia2ok, just lmk and I'll make time :)22:25
knomerelated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation22:25
knomebasically, i'm trying to make most of the wiki useless :P22:25
knomenot all, but most of it22:25
knomei've even ACK'd moving the strategy document there by simon22:26
pleia2reminds me, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official#Xubuntu22:26
knomethen we can have history and sensible diff's22:26
pleia2link should be updated22:26
knomei'll do that22:26
knomeso, anything else on this subject?22:26
pleia2DD wiki page lgtm22:27
pleia2I think that's it22:27
knomegreat, we'll poke you when we need an upload22:27
knomeso the other thing is basically "plan/set up blueprints for community/marketing/website"22:27
knomeand i guess we could talk about that sticker giveaway idea for twitter22:28
knomeand get it done22:28
* pleia2 nods22:28
knomeand with that, other potential social media campaigns22:28
knomecould be nice to do one giveaway for every biggish outlet22:29
pleia2outlet, social media platform?22:29
knome<- lazy22:29
pleia2yeah, would be nice to do stuff for the lts22:29
knomemaybe G+, twitter, fb22:29
knomeso the question is:22:30
knomewhat do we do with the xubuntu memories or whatever we ask22:30
pleia2or #loveXubuntu22:30
knomeit could be with that22:30
pleia2I'm inclined to collect our favorites in a series of blog posts22:30
knomeyes, something like that22:31
pleia2I'd also like to collect a bunch of favorites, and then do a random drawing of which gets a prize22:31
knomebut we need an approval from the participants22:31
pleia2to share?22:31
knomewell at least from those who "win"22:31
* pleia2 nods22:31
knomei'd think it would be fair22:31
knomeif we do this, just collect any ones that we might want to use22:32
pleia2we can just request that they write "CC BY-SA" on whatever they submit22:32
knomeand ask for permission to use in "any marketing for xubuntu"22:32
knomeso we can use them later22:32
pleia2otherwise it's not eligible22:32
knomewithout the need to ask/collect again22:32
knomei'm thinking flyers too22:32
pleia2yeah, that's why a license is nice22:32
knomeyes, wfm22:32
knomeso, should this be a blog article after all?22:33
pleia2which bit? :)22:33
knomethe "competition" info22:33
knometell what we do, ask for the CC bit, etc.22:33
pleia2yeah, probably22:33
knomewe should probably also mention which platforms we are looking at22:33
knomeand if we take submissions via email22:34
knome(and in which list/address)22:34
pleia2my inclination is to ignore facebook because it's so closed22:34
pleia2you can view tweets and g+ things without logging in, not so with facebook22:34
knomelet's try to get something there22:34
pleia2hee, look at all that content so far22:35
knomewell... i just created it22:35
knomewe have some old pad with some content22:35
pleia2yeah, I thought we did22:35
knomei'll try to find that next22:35
pleia2I have it, sec22:35
* pleia2 lies22:36
knomei have it22:37
knomei'm copying that over22:37
pleia2great name22:37
knomeyes, isn't it22:37
pleia2ok, I need to reprocess this, I'll work to add notes over the next few days22:38
pleia2but lets add doing this to our blueprint22:38
* pleia2 pulls up22:38
knomeyeah, i'm quickly trying to add the things we just talked about so there's something to build on22:39
knomenow, talking about BP's22:40
knomeis there something else we want to set up for 16.04?22:41
pleia2flyer, lovexubuntu and continuing "xubuntu at" may be enough22:42
knomekind of related, how do *you* feel about a wallpaper contest?22:42
pleia2oh, we should do one22:43
knomei should write mail about it22:43
pleia2we learned some things from last time22:43
knomebut laaazyyy22:43
pleia2should recommend resolution, license22:43
knomewe remembered license22:43
knomebut people...22:43
pleia2we collected on a wiki page last time, right?22:43
pleia2that was kind of awful22:43
pleia2ubuntu uses flickr22:43
knomeand we kind of recommended resolution too, at least we had a minimum22:44
knomebut people..22:44
pleia2heh, right22:44
knomebluesabre said he'd look at creating a tool for us22:44
pleia2even better :)22:44
knomeso, since you are our legal expert22:44
pleia2that's a frightening statement22:45
knomeif a form says with BIG  RED  letters22:46
pleia2that's purple22:46
knomethat if you submit, you submit with a certain license22:46
knomeis that good enough?22:46
pleia2I radio button would be better, even if it's default selected what we want22:46
knomebecause surely bluesabre can make the tool autocheck the resolution22:47
knomeradio button with what alternatives?22:47
pleia2or maybe just a checkbox saying they agree to our TOS22:48
pleia2which is... agreeing to the license22:48
knomeand no titties22:48
pleia2agree to license, abide by CoC22:48
knomewhatever terms we had the last time22:48
pleia2we can work on the language for that22:48
knomesounds good22:48
knomedo we want to work with this:22:49
knome [xubuntu-website] Community fund funded hosting for the development area: TODO22:49
pleia2that just made my brain explode22:49
knomesorry :(22:49
pleia2what's the development area?22:49
knomecurrently, the tracker22:50
knomeand i would like to set up a wiki too...22:50
pleia2ah yes, I hate wiki22:50
pleia2(hosting them)22:50
Unit193doku isn't so bad if you need smaller.22:51
knomeyeah, i was trying to remember the name22:51
pleia2upgrade management, spam/user authentication handling, it sucks22:51
knomei would most likely go with dokuwiki, it's relatively easy to maintain22:51
Unit193Sean and I both use it.22:51
knomeand i've used it22:51
knomewe could probably look at having multiple admins for the server22:52
knomevirtual, likely22:52
knomeso it wouldn't be that bad22:52
knomebluesabre already needs to handle dokuwiki updates22:52
knomeand Unit193 already pokes him about them22:52
bluesabreis there another update?22:52
knomei don't know22:52
knomewe're talking about setting one for xubuntu22:53
bluesabredokuwiki is nice22:53
knomei'm also familiar enough with the theming so i could probably set up a sensible xubuntu-specific theme relatively quickly22:53
bluesabreNo update notification, phew22:53
knomebut i don't want to push people to do things they don't want22:54
knomeso if it isn't realistic to have time/motivation for that, then we just postpone22:54
knomeor rethink stuff22:54
knomethe ubuntu wiki has been horrible lately :(22:54
Unit193bluesabre: No you're good.22:54
knomepreviously it has been just everybody else that has had problems with it22:55
knomenow i've been in problems too22:55
pleia2anyway, that action item sounds fine, I'm ok with being lead sysadmin on such a server as long as I have help with the service specific things22:56
knomeand ideally, we'd move docs. and static. there too22:57
knomeso you would have less work in keeping them updated22:58
pleia2having me not the only one with access would be great22:58
knome(and it would all be smoother, the doc team could poke whichever admin is available)22:58
knomeand with a virtual server, we can probably dump some scripts server side22:58
* knome hides from pleia2 and the rolling pin22:59
pleia2well, we could install all the doc build tools, as long as they'll work on the lts22:59
knomethey should22:59
knomeand will, really22:59
knomei can preliminary volunteer on taking care of some of the social side23:00
pleia2https://www.linode.com/pricing is my recommendation23:00
pleia2probably the 2G one if we're running a wiki23:00
pleia2but 1G is probably ok too, I've not done doku23:00
knomethough note that it's low-use23:00
knomedoku is very light23:00
pleia2what is it written in?23:01
knomeand really, we won't have more than a few dozen pages23:01
Unit193pleia2: You mean you're not on the DO bandwagon?23:01
pleia2Unit193: DO?23:01
pleia2knome: ah, php23:02
knomepleia2, yeah :)23:02
pleia2Unit193: heh, no23:02
knomei'm ok with *any* hosting23:02
pleia2Unit193: if they're more stable now, that's fine too23:02
knomei *really* couldn't care less :]23:02
Unit193pleia2: From what I hear they are better, but yeah.23:02
knomewell that is, as long as it works etc...23:02
knomebut no clicks for/against any provider23:02
pleia2could also approach my buddy at gandi to see if they want to give us one23:03
pleia2actually, let me email her right now23:03
knomeas long as that doesn't mean 1000x600 ads on every page ;))23:03
Unit193So you're going with Gentoo right?23:03
pleia2knome: can you add the item to the blueprint?23:04
knomewhich exactly?23:04
knomethe one i pasted is *on* the blueprint23:04
knomeit was carried on from W23:04
pleia2nm, it's there23:04
pleia2yeah :)23:04
knomewe can split it up when we have a clearer idea of smaller actionable items23:04
pleia2opposed to a text footer on pages saying it's hosted by gandi?23:06
pleia2(it's ok to say yes)23:06
knomeit's not ideal, and i would personally say no, but we should consult simon too23:06
knomei mean, when i say "no", i mean "yes" to opposing23:07
* knome sighs23:07
knomebut "no" for the ads...23:07
knomealso, that would likely mean we'd need to change stuff23:08
knomethink: add the footer note in the docs source23:08
knomewhich is a bit icky23:08
knomepleia2, oh, another thing to talk about: saw the -contacts mail?23:09
pleia2yeah, I think it's a fine idea23:10
knomeok, then i'll approve the message and reply him telling that23:10
pleia2thanks too23:10
knomet. hanks23:11
pleia2ok, request has been emailed23:13
knomeok, replied to gabor (and CC list)23:18
knomeso... anything else for the blueprints?23:19
knomeany improvements you would like to see re: the release pages on the website?23:20
pleia2I'm good23:20
knomehmm, am i not autoapproved23:20
knomei am23:20
knomethe list just sends the email anyway23:20
knomei guess i'm done then with stuff for now :)23:23
pleia2thanks ;)23:23
knomeupdated the artwork wikipage23:24
knomeoh heh, i've broken the resources page23:25
knomewill go fix that next23:25
knomeaaand done23:27
knomealexkuck, hello23:32
alexkuckknome: hello. how are you ?23:33
knomei'm fine23:33
knomelooking for something? :)23:33
alexkucknope ! i am just a silent lurker..23:34
knomeaha ;)23:34
alexkuck(a proud user of xubuntu for a couple years)23:34
knomewe can alwaus use a pair of helping hands if you ever decide that you want to help :)23:35
knome^ as you can see, we totally need help with typing :P23:36
alexkuckknome: i've never been involved with operating system dev. what would be some initial opportunities ?23:46
knomealexkuck, testing the development release, for example23:46
knomeand/or new software versions23:46
alexkuckis there a formal test process ? or just report what breaks during normal usage?23:47
knomeit's described in http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa23:47
knomebut we're also planning a session for people interested in testing in this channel23:48
knomelet me dig up the link..23:48
knomehttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-November/010966.html <- there23:48
knomeOR you could just ask flocculant for details :)23:48
knomebut long story short - both23:48
knomewe specifically need to do certain tests with new ISOs to make sure xubuntu is installable23:49
alexkuckfantastic !23:49
knomeand tbe, many more people on this channel can answer questions23:49

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