TJ-still not solved it. "Attempt to kill init!"00:01
* daftykins switches the track to Queen - Another One Bites the Dust00:03
daftykinsi usually reserve that one for dead disks i diagnose ;)00:03
daftykinstrouble approaches...00:34
berwynHi everyone 'in' this room. Also, I am a 'new' Linux Mint. But I do have a question about/on PlayDeb, the unofficial Ubuntu games website. My question is: Are the games from PlayDeb safe? Or....Is it safe to download games from the PlayDeb website? Thanks.  :)00:39
=== berwyn is now known as Welshman
daftykinsso you were bs-ing us all along in #ubuntu - well i'll tell you what i'd tell you there, we don't support Mint.00:41
ubot5Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org00:41
SeriouslyLaughyeah, god forbid we help any new linux users.00:43
OerHeksmaybe the downloads are safe, and games may not.00:44
OerHeksit is a trusted way, but no guarantees.00:44
daftykinsSeriouslyLaugh: there's another channel to go talk about it in, so i see no problem... Mint has its' own issues and is best dealt with by people that run it themselves.00:44
Welshmandaftykins + ubot5: Thanks. Also, yes, I know about #linuxmint-chat and -help. But was encouraged by cryptodan in/on #linuxmint-chat to ask in an #ubuntu channel/room. Also, my question is about the PlayDeb website which is listed on Ubuntu website! So, if you do not mind, I will wait for a few minutes to see if someone answers/replies to my question!! Thanks again. :)00:46
SeriouslyLaughWelshman you might have better success asking in ##linux -- but don't mention the distribution you use. the cool kids frown upon mint.00:49
daftykinsthat guys on Mint... interesting00:51
WelshmanSeriouslyLaugh: Thanks for your reply. But as I have mentioned/said already I was encouraged by another person to ask my question in an #ubuntu channel/room. So....I will wait for a few minutes! Thanks again. :)00:52
SeriouslyLaughbut it's not really an ubuntu question00:52
SeriouslyLaughjust saying00:52
SeriouslyLaughthough it does say "caters to the Ubuntu gamer"00:53
WelshmanSeriouslyLaugh: Sorry to disturb but have a question to ask you. My question is: If I cannot ask that question here in this channel/room and I cannot ask it in the 'other' channel/room then how am I going to get the answer? Seems a bit unfair! :(00:58
SeriouslyLaughyou asked in two rooms. there are literally thousands on freenode00:58
daftykinsshockingly, on freenode you find channels appropriate to a topic.00:58
ubot5alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu or /msg alis list http00:58
daftykinsthis website you speak of may even have details of an IRC channel + network for itself.00:59
SeriouslyLaughliterally the top populated room on freenode is called ##linux and is for all linux discussion one would presume00:59
WelshmanSeriouslyLaugh: Okay, thanks. Suppose I should try ##linux seems that I am not welcomed here to ask my/that question. So, I bid you a goodnight - it's 1.04am here - and all the best! :)01:04
daftykinsweird you repeat the same format with all statements01:05
SeriouslyLaughmaybe he's a really advanced bot01:06
Welshmandaftykins + ubot5: You might be pleased to know that I am going to try to enter ##linux as suggested by SeriouslyLaugh. So, goodnight + all the best to both of you!!01:06
daftykinsyou'd know, you joined in all the channels at the same time the trolls started :)01:06
SeriouslyLaughpay no mind to the man behind the curtain!01:07
* OerHeks is playing So Lonely - The Police [ft. More Alone]01:11
daftykinsyep troll season is in full swing :(02:01
SeriouslyLaughthey keep feeding it.02:02
daftykinsyou're part of it as far as i'm concerned02:03
SeriouslyLaughapologies if it seems that way -- i'm still learning the tone of the channel02:04
daftykinsdon't fight the rules and you'll do well; what you've been trying to challenge so far has made you look like common trolls02:06
SeriouslyLaughgot it02:06
lotuspsychjegood morning to all02:18
daftykinstroll season is in full swing, lotuspsychje - be warned!02:19
lotuspsychjehey daftykins02:19
lotuspsychjelets calm them down :p02:19
SeriouslyLaugh!ppa | SeriouslyLaugh this is just a test to see if the bot is active in this channel too02:23
ubot5SeriouslyLaugh this is just a test to see if the bot is active in this channel too: A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge02:23
lotuspsychje!msgthebot | SeriouslyLaugh02:24
ubot5SeriouslyLaugh: Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubot5 Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubot5 !search factoid".02:24
SeriouslyLaughty lotuspsychje02:24
daftykinslotuspsychje: see plenty more AMD graphics cards have just been moved to legacy status now?02:27
lotuspsychjedaftykins: no?02:28
daftykinsHD 5000 and HD6000, plus some earlier HD7xxx are now legacy02:29
daftykinsand pre-kaveri AMD APUs too02:29
lotuspsychjedaftykins: if i understand correctly new amdgpu driver will only allow new cards02:30
lotuspsychjeand older drivers keeping seperated02:31
daftykinsprobably echo the above yeah and support GCN cards only02:31
OerHeksAMD is saying that the performance in some Linux games will increase by at least 112%.02:32
daftykinsglxgears here we come ;)02:32
lotuspsychjeback to the graphics battle lol02:32
lotuspsychjealot of crimson news ontop OerHeks02:35
lotuspsychjedaftykins, OerHeks the devel guys told me nvidia-current is already dead, and will be removed after the 304 driver is gone02:49
lotuspsychjeso no nvidia-current for users anymore02:49
lotuspsychjethe additional drivers section takes now care of the driver for users02:49
daftykinswell that package i haven't advise to use for several years02:49
SeriouslyLaughdaftykins for the record, you are right03:06
SeriouslyLaughre: the topic in the support channel03:07
daftykinsi mean, i could understand if we were talking about someone who uses shared internet connections a lot... or doesn't use a router but connects direct...03:07
daftykinsbut it's 100% apparent there's no understanding of the concept there03:07
lotuspsychjethe whonix page shows net.ipv4.tcp_timestamps = 0 ? not icmp03:08
SeriouslyLaughliterally FUD, and she even used that term03:08
daftykinsmy brain tends to go off whenever i see something involving 'privacy' or TOR03:08
SeriouslyLaughspidey senses03:09
SeriouslyLaughthough, i use a vpn03:11
SeriouslyLaughbecause some irc servers don't properly cloak03:11
daftykinswell this one has been around for over a week, so the crazy is firmly evident03:12
daftykinsOerHeks: all we need is, radio ga ga~06:31
lotuspsychjemorning TJ- and cfhowlett09:27
cfhowlettlotuspsychje, hey there09:27
TJ-hallo :)09:34
TJ-oh what it is to ride this kernel train tonight... especially when the darned thing doesn't like the CPU :)09:35
cfhowlettride the kernel train tonight?  that's a motown sound!09:37
TJ-uhuh :)09:38
TJ-I'm building plopkexec to fit on a 1.44 FD,  but no matter what compiler options I set, it throws an error if executed on the real mobo (VIA C3 Samuel 2) and in a Qemu Guest if arch isn't set to pentium2 despite my building with gcc -march=c3 or -march=486. Can't figure it out09:40
lotuspsychjewhat kind of error TJ-09:41
TJ-kernel panic, init killed. As in the /init from plop dies. I suspect due to it trying to use an opcode that doesn't exist on the CPU, and the fact I can reproduce it in a VM Guest seems to confirm that, but as I say, despite my setting the specific compiler machine arch to use, the condition remains09:43
lotuspsychjeTJ-: foudn a thread, not sure if it will help: http://reboot.pro/topic/20524-grub4dos-via-kexec-plopkexec-specifically/09:45
lotuspsychjemorning EriC^^09:46
TJ-as in https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.jpg09:47
TJ-that's with a pentium CPU: "qemu-system-x86_64 -m 512 -cpu pentium -drive if=floppy,format=raw,file=floppy.img"09:47
lotuspsychjenot many hits on plopexec on google :p09:49
TJ-And this is with "-cpu pentium2" https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.good.jpg09:49
lotuspsychjeTJ-: tested other kernels?09:50
TJ-so the issue is obviously a compiler flags issues; I'm building with gcc options "-march=c3 -m32" (c3 is the specific Via C3 CPU on the target, but obviously the Qemu guest also fails so something appears to be including non C3 code09:50
TJ-lotuspsychje: I'm building the kernel itself; it's build target is the Via C3 too09:51
TJ-kernel is going fine, it's the /init exectuable build that has this issue09:51
lotuspsychjeTJ-: how about this: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2007-10/msg00442.html09:51
lotuspsychjeor this:  009:52
lotuspsychjedown vote09:52
lotuspsychjeI found the fix with the help of this thread. I had to enable CONFIG_AEABI in my kernel.09:52
TJ-the kernel is working fine, it's the plop /init exectuable throwing the panic09:56
lotuspsychjecant find nothing much on plop10:04
TJ-I've just captured the kernel dmesg over a serial console from the VM: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.log10:05
lotuspsychjelets c10:05
TJ-I'll do another with the 'pentium2' set as the CPU10:06
TJ-here: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.pentium.log -  you'll see it actually runs the plop /init over the serial console :)10:07
TJ-I wonder if this is another of those weird gcc 5 issues10:08
lotuspsychjenot sure on this10:09
TJ-I've installed the 4.9 gcc libraries and building with that, see if it makes a difference10:24
TJ-that futurama140 seems to be hell-bent on destroying their system. no idea what that 'wibom' is, but can't see it in the archives10:26
lotuspsychjenever seen it either10:40
TJ-oh, I think I've figured it out! The Ubuntu 32-bit GCC libaries are all built for i686, so when they're linked into this exectuable they bring pentium2 (i686) instructions10:43
TJ-So, basically, I'm going to have to go back to Ubuntu 5.10 or so to get the libraries that were built for i38610:44
lotuspsychjeoh i see10:47
cfhowlett5.10?  errrrrrrrrrr .....10:47
ubot5Ubuntu 5.10 (Breezy Badger) was the third release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: April 13, 2007. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.10:47
cfhowlettso ... just a BIT dated ...10:48
lotuspsychjesecurity bomb :p10:48
lotuspsychjeJT- hahaa10:49
EriC^^morning lotuspsychje10:54
lotuspsychjehey EriC^^ :p10:54
TJ-Well, I'll find the last build that supported the i586/pentium class CPUs; the target CPU cannot support the cmov instruction that the pentium2/i686 introduced10:55
TJ-Better using those prebuilt binaries that trying to build the entire current standard library for i586 - that's take ages, and doesn't help since the target CPUb/mobo has to be able to install and run many packages :)10:56
EriC^^lotuspsychje: Danco in #ubuntu11:03
EriC^^800 computers11:05
EriC^^wonder where he got them from11:05
lotuspsychjelets find out :p11:05
lotuspsychjeEriC^^: tnx for the highlight11:05
lotuspsychjeDanco: welcome mate11:05
lotuspsychjeDanco: can you tell us more about your project?11:06
lotuspsychjeDanco: gonna start own ubuntu store?11:08
DancoWe basically got a batch of 700-800 computers from colleges and schools that were put out of commission. The previous licensing was done through a Windows server, so we cannot supply with Windows. To have our buyers be able to use the computers they'd at least need something to work with.11:08
lotuspsychjeand you will sell them machines with ubuntu on Danco11:09
DancoPreferably yes, we got one machine pre installed with the OEM installation, which would then get imaged to our FOG server, which will then upload and install a batch of 50 computers at the same time.11:10
lotuspsychjeDanco: im starting an own store next years, thats why im interested11:11
DancoBut the price for a computer with or without Ubuntu would be the same.11:11
DancoI see :)11:11
lotuspsychjeubuntu makes it cheaper right11:11
lotuspsychje-100 euro for windows11:11
lotuspsychjeand ill order barebones to put own hardware inside11:12
lotuspsychjeDanco: no payed ms office lisence, no antivirus11:12
DancoExactly, but I cannot get on with it unless I get permission from Canonical11:14
lotuspsychjeDanco: yeah, you need to be confirmed11:14
lotuspsychjeDanco: check the disclaimer here at bottom 3 lines: https://system76.com/disclaimer11:15
lotuspsychjeDanco: you site will need it also, to sell them legit11:16
DancoAh, as long as we would put that in after confirmation we would be able to sell them?11:16
lotuspsychjeDanco: i think it wont be more complicated then that11:16
DancoI'll just be patient then. Thank you kindly :)11:17
lotuspsychjeDanco: just to avoid users thinking, you invented ubuntu on the machines you sell11:17
DancoAh fair enough, that's understandable. So there shouldn't be a fee towards us for batch supplying?11:17
lotuspsychjeDanco:i dont think so, as ubuntu is opensource11:18
lotuspsychjeDanco: if you want canonical support, thats another business11:18
DancoFair enough, I got falsely informed. We wouldn't need support, I just want to cover my own behind if you know what I mean.11:19
lotuspsychjeDanco: sure, but make sure you wait for the canonical reply11:19
DancoWill definitely do that! Thank you :)11:20
lotuspsychjeDanco: oem brands like the new phones and such bq,meizu will need to pay fee to canonical11:20
DancoBut that's due to it being completely being based on their source code isn't it?11:22
lotuspsychjeDanco: yeah and updates support and such11:23
DancoSo you are the owner of system76?11:23
lotuspsychjeDanco: no, im gonna run own store bit like system7611:24
DancoAh fair enough :) I wish you the best of luck in the future!11:24
lotuspsychjeDanco: with phones,tablets,laptops and desktops11:24
lotuspsychjeDanco: all ubuntu + ssd11:24
lotuspsychjeDanco: tnx11:24
lotuspsychjeDanco: you mean online shop also?11:26
DancoI meant purily online.11:26
lotuspsychjeah no11:26
lotuspsychjeown store from home also +repair +security advise11:26
lotuspsychjeDanco: i will also tweak ubuntu before sending to customer11:27
lotuspsychjeDanco: you know a spanish school did the same thing as you, whole schools network on ubuntu11:28
lotuspsychjeDanco: maybe look that up, might be relevant11:28
lotuspsychjegermany governement changed to ubuntu also11:29
DancoAfraid we already sold all the computers, next batch might be able to go back in a network.11:29
lotuspsychjeDanco: your customer will send the to individuals or use for network?11:30
DancoWe are not quite sure, they are a big chain that buys and resells any product range.11:31
lotuspsychjeDanco: whats the brand of the machines?11:32
DancoJust standard HP's with brackets and monitors included11:33
lotuspsychjenice :p11:33
lotuspsychjehp will do fine with ubuntu11:33
lotuspsychjegood linux support11:33
DancoRuns quite smooth altogether. But I'll get back to work, thank you again for informing me, and again, I wish you the best of luck!11:34
lotuspsychjeDanco: laters!11:34
BluesKajHey all12:35
pauljwmorning BluesKaj12:38
BluesKaj'Morning pauljw12:38
=== SeriouslyLaugh2 is now known as SeriouslyLaugh
mcphailHas the Amazon Search function generated enough income to justify the loss of faith in the privacy and security of data on Ubuntu?15:54
TJ-money doesn't justify prostitution :)15:56
SeriouslyLaughall it did was prove that everyone has a price15:56
mcphailSad to see users opting for arch over Ubuntu because of this15:57
TJ-a few maybe, most rational actors who don't like it simply disable/uninstall it15:57
SeriouslyLaughit's the equivilant of when an installer tries to sneak in a weather bug or coupon app15:58
TJ-I think the biggest objection to it was that it was opt-out, not opt-in, and *hard* to opt-out originally15:59
mcphailYes, the reputational damage exceeds the actual insult15:59
TJ-And most people knew the reason for it being opt-in is that Canonical wanted inertia to mean most users would leave it as-is15:59
mcphailIt has been depressing to see mozilla taking the same approach16:00
TJ-If they'd been up-front and said: "Look, Canonical needs some return on the huge investment Shuttleworth has put in to get this far, can we enable this Amazon search addition because if you buy from them we'll get a commission" I think most people would have readily supported it16:01
TJ-This is the problem with the 'free-beer' mentality; users get a sense of entitlement ... want everything for nothing16:01
TJ-Funny thing is those same users, in the my experience, have no problem being Google's or Facebook's Product16:02
mcphailNeither Google nor Facebook get root access to your life archive, though. The bar has to be set higher for an OS16:03
mcphailAnd mozilla ere downright duplicitous, in my opinion. Google and Facebook were always honest about their plans16:05
TJ-Errr, Facebook 'knows' a lot more about its users than their own PCs do16:06
SeriouslyLaughpersonally, i'm less concerned with the privacy issue16:06
SeriouslyLaughjust the bloatware sucks. the concept of it.16:07
SeriouslyLaughfeels like it cheapens the product16:07
SeriouslyLaughregardless of how actually bloated it may or may not be16:07
SeriouslyLaughjust seeing the little icon there is a reminder that everyone has a price16:07
TJ-Well... finally.. I've identified the last build of gcc that supported the i586: 10.04 Lucid16:20
TJ-finally! 24+ hours later, I have plopkexec booting correctly on an i586 class CPU21:39
daftykinsTJ-: :D21:41
daftykinsTJ-: looks like i'll be selling that HTC shortly and sending it up to England, so if you needing anything else... :)21:42
TJ-haha! No, I've got that underway as well, now I understand what it needs21:49
daftykinscool :)21:51
daftykinsdecided it's worth about £150, but not mine to sell so no profit to me!21:52
TJ-Basically, I need to build a placebo package that provides the classes/services that are part of the Sense framework21:52
TJ-that's a bit of depreciation :O21:52
daftykinsi just went by what ebay and amazon have listed21:54
TJ-yeah, electronic devices are like vehicles. As soon as they arrive they lose 15% value22:00
TJ-did you see my mention earlier about the 20 year old bug I hit that is in every package every built by Debian, Ubuntu and all other deried distros?22:04
daftykinsi did not :O22:04
daftykinsstill waiting (im)patiently for that Nexus 5 screen to show up :)22:05
TJ-I've been having 'fun' trying to get a 10.04 chroot installed using debootstrap (that is the last version that built gcc with i585 support).22:05
TJ-The debootstrap kept failing when it tried to "mount -t proc proc /proc" in the chroot, telling me the EUID was 1000, not 0.22:06
TJ-after a lot of digging I found out the reason was that when debootstrap fetches the .deb packages, and extracts them manually with 'tar', the ownership info stored in the 'tar' is named-based e.g. "root:root" rather than ID based (0:0). So on a system - like mine - where root != 0 tar does a query of the passwd file to get the UID, and gets 1000 not 0, and installs files with that ownership22:08
TJ-(1000:1000). Now, '/bin/mount' is an setuid binary, so when executed the kernel sets its Effective UID as 1000, and mount checks with geteuid() and bails out complaining22:09
TJ-this is due to every package being created with using the tar '--numeric-owner' option, so it stores "root:root" not "0:0" as the owner.22:09
TJ-that's done by the core dpkg-deb/dpkg-buildpackage tooling, that's been around since Debian started22:10
EriC^^TJ-: a user gets a grub shell after choosing his os in grub22:28
EriC^^if he types configfile (hd0,gpt5)/boot/grub/grub.cfg it boots22:28
EriC^^grub shows the $root as (hd0,gpt2) , which is actually the efi partition22:28
EriC^^/boot/efi/EFI/grub/grub.cfg shows search.fs_uuid e534f420-36db-491c-8db8-dc5b770db499 root hd1,gpt522:29
EriC^^what do you think it could be?22:29
TJ-EriC^^: sounds like "grub-install" has written the wrong root value into the core.img (grubx64.efi), and needs re-doing22:31
EriC^^we just chrooted and ran grub-install and update-grub22:31
TJ-with an /EFI/grub/grub.cfg in place? That might trigger it setting the core root=hd0,gpt222:32
TJ-try moving that file out (don't delete it yet) so GRUB won't find it in the EFI-SP, then re-do the grub-install22:33
EriC^^TJ-: he says $prefix shows (hd0,gpt2)/EFI/ubuntu22:33
EriC^^how odd is that?22:34
TJ-remember that GRUB set's root= to the file-system that contains its grub.cfg, so if it finds one in the EFI-SP, it may well use that instead of the 'real' one in the GRUB /boot/grub/ location22:34
EriC^^he doesn't even have an ubuntu dir, he has /EFI/grub22:34
TJ-Not an Ubuntu install then, or a manual install22:38
EriC^^elementary os22:39
TJ-Yes, he tried getting help in #ubuntu earlier22:40
daftykinsfriggin' elementary, my dear Watson22:40
EriC^^lol daftykins22:41

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