[06:40] <thatgraemeguy> moo
[06:54] <Kilos> cremora minora
[07:16] <thatgraemeguy> sjoe
[07:17] <thatgraemeguy> I wouldn't want to confuse the 2 when making the first cuppa of the day
[09:33] <andrewlsd> Maaz: last seen kilos
[09:33] <Maaz> andrewlsd: Excuse me?
[09:33] <andrewlsd> Maaz: seen kilos
[09:33] <Maaz> andrewlsd: kilos was last seen 2 hours, 38 minutes and 35 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2015-11-25 22:54:39 PST], and has been offline on freenode since 2015-11-26 00:23:18 PST
[09:33] <andrewlsd> Maaz: thank you
[09:33] <Maaz> andrewlsd: Okay :-)
[09:43] <andrewlsd> anyone here still play / recently played "BZflag" ?
[09:44] <andrewlsd> coz I just re-discovered how much fun it can be.
[14:54] <Kilos> hi smallpox theblazehen 
[14:54] <Kilos> hi there inetpro 
[14:55] <Kilos> hot and dry enough for you
[14:55] <Kilos> ?
[14:55] <smallpox> Hey Kilos 
[14:55] <Kilos> haha
[14:57] <gremble> They're celebrating thanksgiving. So I am just trying to be a small reminder of what they are actually celebrating
[14:57] <gremble> :P
[14:59] <Kilos> lol
[15:38] <theblazehen> hi Kilos 
[17:56] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:57] <Kilos> Maaz hmm...
[17:57] <Maaz> hmm... is often used to try make others believe one is actually thinking
[18:42] <superfly> Hi
[18:42] <superfly> grenobyl: feeling dangerous? 
[18:43] <grenobyl> Like I'm about to meltdown can cause my surrounding area to be uninhabitable for the next 10 000 years. How about you?
[18:44] <grenobyl> Have you heard of the idea of removing ORM's and instead making objects that can handle their own SQL?
[18:45] <grenobyl> http://www.yegor256.com/2014/12/01/orm-offensive-anti-pattern.html
[18:45] <grenobyl> https://blog.codinghorror.com/object-relational-mapping-is-the-vietnam-of-computer-science/
[18:46] <Kilos> hi superfly 
[18:47] <superfly> grenobyl: that's because most ORMs are doing it wrong. 
[18:47] <superfly> Kilos: hi
[18:53] <superfly> grenobyl_: you'll notice how they don't actually talk about Python's ORMs much 
[18:53] <superfly> specifically SQLAlchemy 
[18:54] <superfly> And they use Java (ugh) 
[18:55] <grenobyl_> Yes I noticed the java. So SQLalchemy does not do this?
[18:55] <grenobyl_> It is funny, because I have a friend that likes Java and he makes fun of my preference for lisp, deriding it for it's parentheses even though java looks worse and has just as many parentheses :P
[18:56] <superfly> Well, zzzeek wrote SQLAlchemy to be different to the rest. He wrote it as a way to show people that ORMs can be decent 
[18:57] <grenobyl_> My (albeit limited) experience with sqlalchemy has been similar. So I wondered whether it wouldn't be worth it to try play around without it.
[19:04] <superfly> http://simplicity.laserfiche.com/the-sad-story-of-mr-null-and-little-bobby-tables/
[19:04] <superfly> grenobyl_: ^^ related 
[19:05] <grenobyl_> superfly: Yes, I know that. Stories like that are what prevented me from jumping over to programming as a career :P
[19:06] <superfly> Hrm, I need to get some rest. My migraine is threatening me
[19:06] <grenobyl_> Our local pharmacy has something called "migraine bomb" that helps a lot
[19:06] <grenobyl_> Maybe your pharmacist can mix something similar?
[19:07] <superfly> I've taken a myprodol, that plus some sleep should fix it. 
[19:07] <superfly> Later 
[19:07] <grenobyl_> Cheers
[19:27] <Kilos-> night all. sleep tight