[01:47] <OvenWerk1> It will be a while before y'all wake up I would guess... booted the full dvd to look at whisker.
[01:47] <OvenWerk1> that is the worst way for it to be. That is the way it is shows whisker at it's worst.
[02:20] <OvenWerk1> zequence: I can probably take ~/.config/xfce4/panel/whiskermenu-1.rc and drop it in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/whiskermenu/defaults.rc
[02:21] <OvenWerk1>  to effect a change.
[02:24] <OvenWerk1> I see you have that directoru file there... but it is not installed. needs to be moved into etc as above to take effect.
[02:27] <OvenWerk1> hmm, the one you have looks the same as what we have it needs to be fixed.
[02:29] <OvenWerk1> I have some ideas. zequence: I think I am going to set up three (maybe four) panels one right under the other. The top one will be the same as now but fixed.
[02:30] <OvenWerk1> the next will be what we had before, then the old menu but with four menus... main plus Audio, Video and Graphics
[02:30] <OvenWerk1> Then maybe whisker and the three subs.
[02:31] <OvenWerk1> That way people can see the three or four ways and suggest what is easiest to use.
[02:51] <OvenWerk1> More stuff, looking at the source on https://github.com/gottcode/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin, It appears there is a custom-menu-file=* option that could be used. But I am not seeing any way of telling whisker to use more than one.
[02:53] <OvenWerk1> In the end, I think we want nothing fancy anyway. as it would be hard to transfer fancy stuff to another DE... beyond lxde/kde anyway.
[02:54] <OvenWerk1> Actually zequence it looks really good so far. Make two changes to the whisker menu:
[02:55] <OvenWerk1> button-icon=ubuntustudio-logo
[02:55] <OvenWerk1> hover-switch-category=true
[02:55] <OvenWerk1> I think you already have: load-hierarchy=true
[02:58] <OvenWerk1> I think the favourites should reflect the top four apps in our old menu: browser, file manager, editor and terminal. Though to be honest I never use editor, I would be willing to drop that. settings has it's own button in whisker anyway.
[02:58] <OvenWerk1> editor generally gets launched via context.
[02:59] <OvenWerk1> We end up with a mail application and a few games :)
[03:02] <OvenWerk1> I miss having the expanding menu to the size that fits all apps. Whisker doesn't have a scroll by mousing past the bottom action :( or an open submenu by hovering... but at least it does correctly display them \o/
[03:16] <OvenWerk1> having the second panel gone seems to be a good idea.
[03:25] <OvenWerk1> Ok, reboot and try some stuff. zequence I will have an upload ready later on for settings.
[03:37] <OvenWerk1> we still don't ship jack.tools?
[04:23] <OvenWerk1> Sorry jack-tools
[04:25] <OvenWerk1> We do now.
[04:27] <OvenWerk1> Why do the thunar po files not come with thunar?
[04:59] <OvenWerk1> Might help if I was working on x not w :P
[05:01] <OvenWerk1> Have to get x first
[05:56] <OvenWerk1> zequence: I installed things. I went much better than it has in the past.
[07:11] <zequence> OvenWerk1: I think you are attacking the problem from the wrong angle. You are working from the perspective that we are to keep our own desktop base, but we don't really have one since no one is maintaining it.
[07:12] <zequence> So, what we should do is make the Xubuntu stuff work, then find the best way to do that without including all their specifics in our seeds
[07:12] <zequence> And, also all the other DEs
[07:12] <zequence> If you want our own DE, I would suggest you start workin on one, from scratch
[07:12] <zequence> But, then I would say you are responsible for maintaining it
[08:04] <NoklaM> Is there daily build out is yesterdays fine?
[08:41] <zequence> NoklaM: Yes, they should work though I don't think anything has changed since the build before
[08:42] <NoklaM> ah cool
[08:45] <zequence> OvenWerk1: Ok, I see. Yeah, I misplaced the whiskers configs.
[08:46] <zequence> I'll put those in the right place.
[08:49] <zequence> Also the terminal settings. A bit of a mess there.
[08:51] <NoklaM> gtg, doctors time
[09:07] <zequence> I'm commenting xubuntu-artwork from seeds, since it conflicts with our stuff
[09:14] <NoklaM> argh, had to call my doctor's apointment
[09:27] <zequence> Connection really sucks here. Going to relocate.
[09:55] <NoklaM> I need a new pc for testing
[09:56] <NoklaM> Will studio run on a Sempron 190 and 4gigs of RAM? or am I just chancing it
[09:56] <zequence> 4GB is more than enough
[09:56] <NoklaM> ah wicked
[09:57] <NoklaM> Just got to get a case and a PSU together 
[09:57] <zequence> If the computer is not more than 10 years old, it should be able to run any Ubuntu flavor
[09:57] <NoklaM> beautiful 
[09:58] <NoklaM> I'll make it a dedicated testing machine
[09:58] <zequence> I would say it's hard to survive on less than 2GB, though with modern applications, like web browser, you will quickly use up that as well.
[09:59] <zequence> So, 4GB is plenty
[09:59] <NoklaM> The cpu might be a slight bottle neck
[09:59] <NoklaM> no idea can i unlock the 3rd core on it
[09:59] <zequence> What do you mean, unlock?
[10:00] <NoklaM> it has 3rd core that's locked on it, it's a downgraded Athlone x3
[10:00] <zequence> IF the CPU is slow, just takes longer time to process stuff
[10:00] <zequence> Ah, don't know how that works
[10:01] <NoklaM> Basicly Intel and AMD produce a batch of cpu's and then lock some features on some and sell them for less(economical reasons)
[10:01] <zequence> The biggest problem may be the graphics card. It needs to have graphics acceleration support
[10:01] <NoklaM> oops that could be a problem
[10:01] <NoklaM> no gpu in  the house, and I'm using an outdated 4870HD
[10:01] <zequence> That's why I say if it is older than 10 years.
[10:02] <zequence> That's a Radeon card, right?
[10:02] <NoklaM> Yup
[10:02] <zequence> I'm pretty sure it'll work. If it's not more than 10 years old.
[10:02] <NoklaM> Problem is I'm using it on the main pc
[10:02] <NoklaM> got to find a cheap substitute
[10:02] <zequence> Ah, right. But, what do you have in the PC?
[10:02] <zequence> A builtin of some type?
[10:02] <NoklaM> It's a integrated
[10:03] <zequence> Just run the live ISO, and you'll notice pretty quickly of things work or not
[10:03] <NoklaM> Yup will do that, once I get a case and psu
[10:03] <NoklaM> Closest pc shop is 140km away
[10:03] <NoklaM> o.O
[10:03] <NoklaM> Dublin actually
[10:04] <zequence> There's always mail order :)
[10:04] <NoklaM> Now got a question tho, would it make sense to test mass storage on Studio?
[10:05] <zequence> What kind of mass storage?
[10:05] <NoklaM> 2x2Tb drives
[10:05] <zequence> You mean, setting up your own raid, something like that?
[10:05] <NoklaM> yes raid mirrored
[10:06] <zequence> Well, it works the same on all flavors. Not sure if there are gui tools. Don't use them myself
[10:06] <zequence> I'm talking about software raid, just to be clear
[10:06] <NoklaM> Software yes
[10:06] <NoklaM> I think Film producers use a lot of storage
[10:07] <NoklaM> since the movies they do can be big in size
[10:07] <zequence> Yeah, both audio and video may require a lot of space, and you don't want to loose any files
[10:07] <NoklaM> true
[10:08]  * NoklaM is excited about a new rig
[10:08] <zequence> Sounds like a good idea to have a look at that
[10:09] <zequence> If you want, you can do some research, and once you find the simplest way to set that up, document it, and we'll add support for it by including whatever we aren't already including
[10:09] <zequence> Also, we should have a bit of documentation for it, or at least link to existing documentation.
[10:10] <zequence> I think the average user wouldn't want to be using the terminal for setting up a RAID
[10:10] <zequence> But, if there is nothing else, then I suppose that is what you will have to do
[10:11] <NoklaM> <-- average user xD
[10:11] <NoklaM> I'll see how it goes
[10:11] <NoklaM> But defo gona check the raid options
[10:12] <NoklaM> since I might need a lot of storage myself
[10:13] <zequence> I'm using RAID on my server, and owncloud to sync my studio recordings with the server
[10:13] <zequence> But, would be better to have RAID in the studio as well.
[10:13] <NoklaM> Future proof
[10:14] <zequence> Think serious movie people would use external servers for data storage though, but still, seems like something smart to have for smaller setups.
[10:15] <NoklaM> a double back up can't hurt
[10:15] <zequence> Ok, new -default-settings and -meta uploaded. Hopefully this time the meta binaries will be published.
[10:15] <NoklaM> sudo apt-get update?
[10:15] <zequence> Takes a bit of time before they are installable
[10:16] <zequence> I just uploaded the source to the archive, where the binaries will be built and then published
[10:16] <zequence> Takes a bit of time for those to end up on different mirrors as well
[10:16] <NoklaM> ah I see, is all automated now
[10:18] <NoklaM> for some reason the calendar is caled orage in my build
[10:18] <zequence> No binaries are ever built locally on someones machine. They all need to be built with the same clean setup at Canonical's server famr.
[10:18] <zequence> It is the XFCE calendar, yes
[10:18] <NoklaM> ah thought someone forgot to translate that
[10:19] <zequence> Hmm, actually the previous meta was just published. Must be one of the archive admins who did that manually.
[10:20] <zequence> NoklaM: I wouldn't do a sudo apt-get update right now, cause that would install some packages that you don't want
[10:20] <NoklaM> ok :)
[10:20] <zequence> This is the latest upload. Building currently. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta/0.144
[10:21] <NoklaM> i actually did an update this morning
[10:21] <NoklaM> but had an error about missing unreachable repos
[10:22] <NoklaM> dunno if it was a bug since i updated for the first time since installed the daily build
[10:22] <zequence> That would not be related. The ubuntustudio- packages were just published less than an hour ago
[10:22] <zequence> Missing repos is something to do with your sources file /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:23] <zequence> or, a PPA of some kind, which would be in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[10:23] <NoklaM> I'll check is it persisting with the next update(after it's safe to install)
[10:25] <zequence> Once ubuntustudio-desktop is version 1.144 it's ok to install.
[10:29] <NoklaM> £ to Euro conversion is killing me today
[10:29] <NoklaM> still amazon.co.uk cheapest place to buy from Ireland o.O
[10:40] <NoklaM> if I delete a file locally that I've previously uplodoaded to launchpad will it delete it there as well or will it be fine?
[10:40] <NoklaM> bzr confuses me a lot
[10:55] <zequence> NoklaM: bzr is a version control system, so each commit will be saved
[10:56] <zequence> NoklaM: Whatever changes you make, and then commit, those are the changes that will be saved with that commit
[10:56] <zequence> Once you push your commit(s) to the branch in launchpad, others will be able to pull your commits
[10:56] <NoklaM> The problem is everytime i commit on difrent file it commits on the 1st file i created and then the 2nd and now 3rd all of them at the same time
[10:57] <zequence> It's called pushing, and pulling, as opposed to uploading and downloading
[10:58] <zequence> If you change two files, then commit, the actual commit will include only the changes to those two files
[10:58] <zequence> Usually you always check out the latest commit of a branch, but you can check out any commit done at any time
[10:58] <zequence> So, you can go backwards in history
[10:59] <zequence> It's like backups. But, it's incremental. With each commit (backup), only the zeroes and ones that diff will be saved.
[11:00] <NoklaM> Yesterday i was working on inkscape test and it kept pushing commits to krita file i had earlier
[11:01] <NoklaM> Do i have to do bzr remove --keep file
[11:01] <NoklaM> or it reset severy time i do bzr add file
[11:01] <NoklaM> ?
[11:02] <zequence> bzr add <file> does not commit. It only adds files for the next commit
[11:02] <zequence> IF you change a file, bzr will know, so next time you commit, those changes will be committed
[11:03] <zequence> If you create a new file, you need to use 'bzr add <file>' in order to be able to commit that file
[11:04] <zequence> 'bzr commit -m "<message>"' saves all changes so far.
[11:04] <NoklaM> but for some reason it was sending my commits on krita file + inkscape file at the same time
[11:04] <zequence> 'bzr push :parent' will push all commits to the launchpad branch, that didn't already exist there
[11:05] <zequence> So, if you made multiple commits, 'bzr push' will push all of them
[11:06] <NoklaM> It was pushing both file although i had no changes to krita file and never commited on it
[11:06] <NoklaM> So it confused me a lot
[11:06] <zequence> The only way it would commit changes to krita is if you made changes to it
[11:07] <zequence> That, or there was some corruption on your disk/RAM, or something, which I think can happen with bzr (though, highly unusual)
[11:07] <zequence> by krita I mean the krita file
[11:08] <NoklaM> yes krita testcase file
[11:08] <zequence> You can review the changes for each commit
[11:08] <zequence> Let's see..
[11:08] <NoklaM> i can't find the commit history on launchpad
[11:12] <zequence> To see the last commit number in the branch, do: bzr revno
[11:12] <zequence> Then, to see what changed since last commit, do: bzr diff -r<number>
[11:12] <zequence> replace <number> with the revno - 1
[11:13] <zequence> What you get is some diff text. It shows you which files have changed, and what in those files has changed
[11:13] <zequence> + for added lines, - for deleted lines
[11:14] <NoklaM> I'm so gonna get writing right now and publish a guide to testing with bzr
[11:14] <NoklaM> so much to learn for a newbie like me
[11:14] <NoklaM> i need to have this written down somewhere
[11:15] <zequence> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
[11:16] <NoklaM> i was using that yesterday and i found it kinda confused me slightly in some parts
[11:16] <NoklaM> maybe it's my reading comprehension
[11:16] <zequence> I started something here too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Bzr
[11:17] <zequence> Problem is it's written for people who already are familiar with that kind of stuff
[11:17] <NoklaM> that's true, very true
[11:17] <NoklaM> Yesterday was my first day using version control
[11:18] <zequence> There's a problem with the wiki formatting. There's a big gap between the text and the first code example.
[11:18] <NoklaM> i used git for like 5 seconds, and astana or whatever it's called for 5 minutes
[11:18] <zequence> Takes a bit of time to get the logic down.
[11:19] <zequence> Ah, here's how to review changes more in detail http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/reviewing_changes.html
[11:19] <zequence> Everything since revision 1000: bzr diff -r 1000
[11:19] <zequence> Only changes between two revisions: bzr diff -r1000..1001
[11:20] <NoklaM> I'm not a programmer(although I'd love to be one) some of those concepts are very very confusing
[11:21] <NoklaM> and i bet 5/10 people who will join the testing team will run in to similar problems
[11:21] <zequence> I'm sure you are right
[11:21] <zequence> NoklaM: YOu should check with flocculant if there are some resources for that already
[11:21] <zequence> NoklaM: Where's the code in launchpad, btw?
[11:22] <NoklaM> It's merged with the ubuntu-testing branch i think
[11:22] <NoklaM> flocculant reviewed it and merged it me thinks
[11:22] <zequence> Well, you had your own branch, right?
[11:23] <NoklaM> I don't think i used my own branch rather then submitting to the bug cases
[11:23] <zequence> What branch did you push to?
[11:24] <NoklaM> noklam/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug#number
[11:24] <NoklaM> with number being the testcase i was working on
[11:25] <zequence> Ok, well I'm here now https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk
[11:25] <zequence> Seems like you have made two commits
[11:26] <zequence> 355 and 356, right?
[11:26] <NoklaM> 362 is the latest
[11:26] <NoklaM> o.O
[11:26] <NoklaM> on my system
[11:27] <zequence> Yeah, but those are commits you have done since, right?
[11:27] <NoklaM> Nope those are before i pushed
[11:28] <zequence> Ok, well, there are two merges anyway
[11:28] <zequence> Each merge is a commit in itself
[11:28] <zequence> Ah, yes. The two merges are about 6h apart
[11:28] <zequence> 355 and 356
[11:30] <NoklaM> sorry i can barely think with this noise, my neighbours alarm went off an hour ago
[11:30] <NoklaM> all i can hear is "eueu"
[11:30] <zequence> NoklaM: You can see those two revisions on this page https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk
[11:30] <zequence> :P
[11:30] <zequence> That's the branch where all the merges go
[11:31] <zequence> So, whatever revision numbers you have aren't going to be the same in that branch.
[11:31] <NoklaM> ah yes i see them
[11:31] <zequence> If you click the numbers, you will see all the changes for that revision
[11:32] <NoklaM> i see those
[11:33] <NoklaM> ah they're after my 362 commit was pushed
[11:34] <zequence> You can also check out the two branches you created from which the merges were done, to see their specific commits, like this one https://code.launchpad.net/~noklam/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug
[11:34] <zequence> All of those changes I suspect ended up as a single commit when flocculant did the merge
[11:35] <zequence> ..in the ubuntu-manual-test trunk branch, that is
[11:35] <NoklaM> yea i can't find those in my personal launchpad
[11:35] <NoklaM> probably have to create a branch or something
[11:36] <NoklaM> looking back, i have no idea how 21 lines of html took me 1hour each
[11:37] <zequence> heh
[11:38] <NoklaM> I did 2 test cases yesterday each took me 1h between testing and writing :P
[11:38] <NoklaM> brb gonna grab a cuppa
[11:42] <NoklaM> back
[11:42] <NoklaM> gonna get to do some test cases, just got to find programs I have clue about
[11:56] <zequence> rmadison says the latest metas are published now, but could be they are not in all mirrors yet
[11:57] <NoklaM> I'll wait another 5-10 and download
[11:57] <NoklaM> also do i need special codecs for .ogv on linux?
[11:57] <NoklaM> It's seems i can't watch what i record on recordmydesktop
[11:57] <NoklaM> unless I put in video edditing software
[11:58] <zequence> Don't know much about codecs. If you want the non-free stuff, you do: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[11:59] <zequence> To update using the terminal, btw, do: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[11:59] <NoklaM> ok
[12:00] <NoklaM> Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[12:00] <zequence> Which were they?
[12:00] <NoklaM> I'll paste the whole thing to pastebin
[12:02] <NoklaM> http://pastebin.com/9NVcsArS
[12:03] <zequence> Bunch of lines that has "True" in them, where you would have the release codename
[12:04] <zequence> This is a fresh install, and you didn't mess with the apt sources file?
[12:04] <NoklaM> nope installed yesterday
[12:04] <NoklaM> one updat etrhough synaptic this morning that was it
[12:06] <zequence> Doesn't look right to me, anyhow. If you like, see what's in /etc/apt/sources.list, and if there are any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[12:06] <zequence> I'll be doing my first install tomorrow, or the earliest this evening, so I can't double check.
[12:07] <NoklaM> The Irish mirror for ubuntu is the only thing in apt sources.list
[12:07] <NoklaM> well bunch of em
[12:08] <NoklaM> no filed in list.d
[12:09] <zequence> Maybe those are always there, and I never thought about it. But, as long as the xenial repos work, you'll be alright
[12:10] <zequence> Ok, time to do other things for a while. Catch you later NoklaM 
[12:10] <NoklaM> see you zequence :)
[14:02] <OvenWerk1> zequence: I think I said something that was misunderstood. Not trying to do a new desktop at all.
[14:02] <OvenWerk1> What is there now is actually very good.
[14:03] <OvenWerk1> I was mostly just giving my thoughts on the run while testing.
[14:05] <OvenWerk1> I do want to try something in settings for people to look at... not as a finalized thing. as it will be wrong the way I do it, but for people to compare. The change does not affect the desktop packages at all only our settings.
[14:06] <OvenWerk1> Probably most of it will come out after people look at it. (some of it will come out for sure)
[14:19] <OvenWerk1> zequence: note that my directory to put whiskermenu in was wrong. I found this out by doing in an install.
[14:30] <OvenWerk1> zequence: please upload https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/ubuntustudio-default-settings
[20:28] <NoklaM> o/
[20:44] <flocculant> evening 
[20:44] <NoklaM> How's it going?
[20:44] <flocculant> just winding down now :)
[20:45] <NoklaM> Ah nice, I just woke up xD was so tired that i decided that an afternoon nap is a must
[20:46] <flocculant> heh
[20:46] <NoklaM> Was on in the morning was doing a test case(forgot to save or bzr add :() but slept the whole aftrenoon
[20:47] <flocculant> I saw the backlog
[20:48] <NoklaM> Also I can't update the daily build
[20:49] <flocculant> I saw a mail saying it had failed to build
[20:49] <OvenWerks> yes.. but why doesn't make sense.
[20:49] <OvenWerks> it says: The following packages have unmet dependencies: osspd : Conflicts: oss-compat
[20:51] <NoklaM> Should I still do my testcase or wait for the daily build (captureMyDesktop)
[20:52] <flocculant> NoklaM: just use old one - there'll be no change 
[20:52] <NoklaM> ok
[20:52] <NoklaM> Got to practise what i did yesterday
[20:52] <NoklaM> And I'm close to the top in karma points
[20:53] <NoklaM> just 30 more and I'm in tpo 5
[20:53] <NoklaM> s/tpo/top
[20:54] <NoklaM> also just noticed that gedit has a massive margin box filled with a grey color in the background that's sticking out about 30px, should it behave that way?
[20:55] <flocculant> that's a bug - fix is in -proposed
[20:55] <OvenWerks> There seem to have been no changes to these two packages for a year. They are supposed to work together.
[20:55] <OvenWerks> flocculant: is the window decoration fixed as well?
[20:55] <flocculant> OvenWerks: what was up with it? 
[20:56] <OvenWerks> compare to any other title bar on the ISO.
[20:56] <flocculant> OvenWerks: gedit? I don't have that
[20:56] <OvenWerks> gedit does not use the WM title bar and istead creates it's own with a different theme.
[20:57] <NoklaM> that seems fine
[20:57] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/ExufiSd.png fileroller back to what's expected 
[20:58] <OvenWerks> Ya, that looks better.
[20:58] <zequence> OvenWerks: I don't understand the idea you have for customizing menu stuff in -default-settings
[20:59] <OvenWerks> I expect to take most of it out, I wanted people to be able to see some ideas to choose from.
[20:59] <zequence> OvenWerks: It's better you do that from a PPA
[21:00] <zequence> And, what do you mean most? We shouldn't be putting anything there which is not Xubuntu synced, besides some theming since we are moving away from that
[21:01] <OvenWerks> I do want people to see it
[21:01] <zequence> You have the -menu package for doing menu customizaton
[21:01] <OvenWerks> pannel setting are in -setting.
[21:01] <zequence> If it's not multimedia specific, don't put it there
[21:02] <zequence> We can't both base on Xubuntu and not at the same time
[21:02] <OvenWerks> So then why have anything in /etc/xdg at all?
[21:02] <zequence> The idea is we don't even have our own panel settings
[21:03] <OvenWerks> Why even have xdg-ubuntustudio?
[21:03] <zequence> We won't be
[21:03] <zequence> Since we are going desktop agnostic
[21:03] <OvenWerks> So we should take that out then.
[21:04] <zequence> Not until we have found a way to do it right
[21:04] <OvenWerks> Do what right?
[21:04] <zequence> What we have been talking about the last year, or more
[21:04] <zequence> We base on other DE's, and we stop having our own
[21:05] <OvenWerks> If we are not going to add anything, then xdg-ubuntustudio can come out. There is nothing about doing it right or wrong.
[21:05] <zequence> Right now, we have our own theming. That is still there
[21:05] <OvenWerks> Our metas already run right on top of a xubuntu install.
[21:06] <zequence> If we are too keep some things, we will probably need our own session
[21:06] <zequence> There are some problems that need to be worked out
[21:06] <OvenWerks> backdrop and icon for the menu only.
[21:07] <OvenWerks> We already use the same theme.
[21:07] <OvenWerks> (or close enough)
[21:08] <zequence> Well, if you have good solutions, please present them in the mail list, or in a package in a PPA, or whatever. Or, I will, within the week.
[21:08] <zequence> I will be using a PPA when doing testing
[21:08] <OvenWerks> Solutions to what?
[21:08] <zequence> Going desktop agnostic
[21:08] <zequence> The whole shebang
[21:09] <zequence> ubiquity plugin, the works
[21:09] <OvenWerks> Either we use xubuntu with our metas or we don't.
[21:09] <OvenWerks> I have installed our metas on top of xubuntu with the only difference being backdrop and menu icon.
[21:11] <zequence> Well, one question is if we want to keep our theming, and perhaps also use it for other DEs
[21:11] <OvenWerks> once we use xdg-ubuntustudio at all, we may as well make whatever look changes make sense.
[21:11] <NoklaM> Sorry to interupt, but does anyone have the testcases launchpad web adress so i can get a bug number
[21:11] <OvenWerks> each is DE specific.
[21:12] <zequence> Yes, I know
[21:12] <NoklaM> lost all of my history on irc
[21:12] <flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
[21:12] <NoklaM> tyvm
[21:12] <zequence> NoklaM: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/30/%23ubuntustudio-devel.html
[21:13] <NoklaM> so just double checking : bzr push noklam/ubutu-manual-tests/bug#1184745
[21:13] <OvenWerks> To go DE agnostic with theming that is our own means a desktop settings package for each DE. I would prefer to _provide_ the artwork and let the user enable it.
[21:14] <zequence> Ok, well, let
[21:14] <flocculant> NoklaM: for just record desktop that'd work
[21:14] <zequence> let's start with that.
[21:14] <NoklaM> Yup that's the one I've just now
[21:15] <NoklaM> so gonna push that and /pray that i didn't do something stupid again
[21:16] <zequence> I'm heading for bed here. I don't want to upload the changes to -default-settings as they are now. If you want to use them for something, I would suggest starting work on a custom DE setup entirely.
[21:17] <zequence> ..and also pledge to maintain it for at least the three years xenial will be supported
[21:19] <NoklaM> nope I can't push it, did : bzr push lp:noklam/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug#number , and it says there is no project noklam
[21:19] <NoklaM> o.O
[21:20] <flocculant> you need a ~,  bzr push lp:~noklam/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug#number
[21:20] <NoklaM> ah explains it tyvm again :)
[21:22] <NoklaM> and now i went to my personal launchpad and can't find it to assign it
[21:23] <NoklaM> i mean to send it for review
[21:24] <flocculant> NoklaM: I'm not sure what you're doing there - but you sent the old stuff again ;)
[21:24] <NoklaM> argh
[21:24] <NoklaM> no way
[21:24] <flocculant> are you making sure the local branch is up to date when you start work on a new one? 
[21:25] <NoklaM> How do i do that?
[21:25] <NoklaM> Must have missed that bit
[21:25] <flocculant> not sure it's written down anywhere in the QA pages 
[21:26] <flocculant> run bzr pull in the local copy 
[21:26] <NoklaM> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how.  
[21:26] <NoklaM> Use the merge command to reconcile them.
[21:26] <NoklaM> sorry for paste
[21:27] <NoklaM> i have no idea what that means
[21:27] <flocculant> NoklaM: rename your local copy to something else so you don't lose it
[21:27] <flocculant> then grab the branch again so you know you've a clean copy with bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-tests
[21:27] <flocculant> then copy the new test into it
[21:27] <NoklaM> the whole folder?
[21:28] <flocculant> I don't know what you mean :)
[21:28] <flocculant> rename the copy of ubuntu-manual-tests to something else 
[21:28] <NoklaM> ah ok
[21:28] <flocculant> then grab it again
[21:29] <flocculant> when you push, please push to lp:~noklam/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug1184745 for that record one
[21:30] <flocculant> when you do the next one - make it a new one :)
[21:30] <NoklaM> Eh now i forgot how to grab a whole directory
[21:30] <flocculant> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-tests
[21:30] <NoklaM> ag ty
[21:30] <NoklaM> ah*
[21:31] <flocculant> and it will have diverged as you didn't have an up to date copy - all the things that you did yesterday were changed when I merged them with a new name :)
[21:32] <flocculant> you think krita is called krita - it's not anymore, it's 1664_krita :)
[21:35] <NoklaM> ok so did that branch thing then bzr add file, then bzr commit -m "blah blah" file and now I think i'm ready to push it
[21:35] <NoklaM> just making sure i did all right up to now
[21:35] <flocculant> sounds right
[21:37] <NoklaM> i think it worked
[21:37] <flocculant> it did :)
[21:37] <NoklaM> ./fingerscrossed
[21:37] <NoklaM> Yay! :D
[21:37] <NoklaM> now please give 30 karma haha
[21:38] <NoklaM> 33 :P
[21:39] <flocculant> This test ill check ... 
[21:39] <NoklaM> D'oh
[21:39] <flocculant> fix that and push it again to the same place :)
[21:41] <NoklaM> fixed :D
[21:41] <NoklaM> Odd that the spell checker didn't get that
[21:42] <NoklaM> wish there was a linux version of grammarly
[21:42] <flocculant> why would it - ill is a word :)
[21:42] <NoklaM> d'oh
[21:42] <NoklaM> true
[21:42] <NoklaM> was that worth 33 karma points?
[21:43] <NoklaM> haha probaly not
[21:43] <NoklaM> s/porbably
[21:45] <flocculant> all done
[21:45] <flocculant> so you can now run bzr pull and it should grab the new one
[21:49] <NoklaM> But rename/delete this one so it doesn't collide
[21:49] <NoklaM> ?
[21:49] <flocculant> no - just bzr pull first 
[21:49] <flocculant> then look in /Studio see what you've got there
[21:50] <NoklaM> ah i see 1666_record*
[21:50] <NoklaM> so no need to remove every time
[21:50] <flocculant> nope
[21:51] <flocculant> assuming you do them one at a time ofc 
[21:51] <flocculant> and that someone has merged it :)
[21:51] <flocculant> anyway - time for me to wander off into the night :)
[21:51] <NoklaM> Ok, have a good night :)
[21:51] <NoklaM> and thanks
[21:51] <flocculant> welcome :)
[21:52] <NoklaM> OvenWerks, you working on a custom DE theme or visuals?
[21:59] <sakrecoer_> Greetings NoklaM !! welcome!! what i vibbrant backlog i the IRC today! makes me happy :) 
[21:59] <NoklaM> Hey hey sakrecoer_  :)
[21:59] <NoklaM> thanks
[22:00] <sakrecoer_> thanks right back at ya! :)
[22:00] <sakrecoer_> i'm fairly new arround too..
[22:01] <NoklaM> so much to learn o.O really I've learned a lot since yesterday
[22:01] <NoklaM> i can uze bzr like a pro /joke
[22:01] <sakrecoer_> yeah dude! you rock!
[22:02] <sakrecoer_> i'm serious tho!
[22:02] <NoklaM> thanks /blush /blush
[22:03] <sakrecoer_> i'm probably one of the least technical in the team... 
[22:03] <NoklaM> I can't decide: Do I want to make things nice looking (css/html/general frontend) or do I want to make em functional with programming
[22:04] <NoklaM> I'm considering a career change
[22:04] <NoklaM> Honestly probably whatever I pick will be better than a Store clerk
[22:06] <sakrecoer_> maybe they go hand in hand? making things nice looking functional, to leave the store clerk?
[22:06] <sakrecoer_> again.. maybe better: _functional things that also look nice_
[22:06] <sakrecoer_> :)
[22:07] <NoklaM> Hehe that would be actually awesome, but my time is limited to a year of self study
[22:07] <sakrecoer_> i see. you have it invest it wisely then.
[22:07] <sakrecoer_> your time
[22:08] <NoklaM> Yup, got a year before I'm 30 
[22:08] <sakrecoer_> :) i'm 35
[22:08]  * sakrecoer_ is a happy robot
[22:09] <NoklaM> Oh nice, not that far age wise
[22:10] <sakrecoer_> ye. i like life. :)
[22:10] <NoklaM> Eh life, I won't start on that one
[22:10] <sakrecoer_> :)
[22:11] <NoklaM> Gives you lemons, straight in the eyes, without a warning and you got 10 seconds to react or they burst
[22:11] <sakrecoer_> haha!
[22:11] <sakrecoer_> so these test cases, how it work?
[22:12] <sakrecoer_> (^^,)
[22:12] <NoklaM> There is like some programs that need testing, like a write up, Do they run and do they have basic functionality
[22:12] <NoklaM> For the 16.04 release that is
[22:13] <sakrecoer_> yeah! cool! you seem to have pace! and i don't realy, but i want to help. say i want to test fontforge, how do i proceed?
[22:13] <NoklaM> oh my, let me find my notes :P
[22:13] <sakrecoer_> i have the dev install open and stuff :)
[22:13] <NoklaM> do you have launchpad account
[22:14] <NoklaM> ?
[22:17] <sakrecoer_> sorry
[22:17] <sakrecoer_> battery died :D
[22:17] <NoklaM> no worries :P
[22:17] <NoklaM> happens, unless you have chromebook
[22:17] <sakrecoer_> ye! launchpad check :)
[22:17] <NoklaM> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
[22:17] <NoklaM> that's what needs testing
[22:18] <NoklaM> but now comes the bzr part
[22:18] <sakrecoer_> readin
[22:18] <NoklaM> Do you have your identity set in bzr?
[22:18] <NoklaM> and ssh key for launchpad?
[22:19] <sakrecoer_> key check, bzr... unsure..
[22:19] <NoklaM> ok... bzr is kinda funny
[22:19] <NoklaM> let's try and guide you through it painlessly
[22:20] <sakrecoer_> man:ing myself to conclusions
[22:20] <sakrecoer_> yep... bzr check
[22:20] <sakrecoer_> ssh key check
[22:20] <NoklaM> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
[22:20] <NoklaM> do the first two steps :)
[22:21] <sakrecoer_> thanks!
[22:23] <NoklaM> once you do that type:  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-tests
[22:23] <NoklaM> ./fingerscrosseditworks and i didn't mess up
[22:23] <NoklaM> that should download the branch to your local hdd
[22:29] <NoklaM> also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual
[22:33] <sakrecoer_> ./fingerscrosseditworks executed and ran fine!
[22:33] <sakrecoer_> :)
[22:34] <NoklaM> now you can navigate to ubuntu-manual-tests/testcases/packages/Studio/
[22:34] <NoklaM> Create your files in that folder :)
[22:35] <NoklaM> Also you can check the ones that are already there
[22:35] <NoklaM> + read the style guide on the offical wiki i linked :D
[22:35] <sakrecoer_> great!! thanks!!
[22:37] <NoklaM> when you save your work you have to commit on it with changes done
[22:37] <NoklaM> it's done by bzr commit -m "Text of what you did goes here" filename
[22:37] <NoklaM> where filename = the actual name of the file you created
[22:39] <NoklaM> oh before you do that tho : bzr add fileyouworkingon
[22:39] <NoklaM> sorry forgot about that part
[22:51] <sakrecoer_> Thank you very much NoklaM !
[22:52] <OvenWerks> NoklaM: just some menuing ideas.
[22:52] <NoklaM> OvenWerks, I might be able to help if you need any
[22:52] <OvenWerks> have you compared whisker to the panel menu?
[22:52] <NoklaM> Whiskers? 
[22:53] <OvenWerks> on the iso (and in xubuntu) they now use whiskermenu
[22:53] <OvenWerks> There are some nice things about whiskermenu
[22:53] <NoklaM> I've only ever heard whiskers used in reference to a cat o.O
[22:53] <OvenWerks> However, it can be harder to use as well
[22:54] <OvenWerks> Whisker is a great menu for a lite desktop, but takes more mouse clicks to handle sub menus
[22:55] <OvenWerks> Studio uses a lot of submenus
[22:55] <OvenWerks> Studio is not lite, but set up to be productive
[22:56] <NoklaM> oh you mean the side arrows on the actual categories is that right?
[22:56] <OvenWerks> by having all the tools needed close at hand. Submenus allow the menu not to get so cluttered
[22:57] <NoklaM> That's true
[22:59] <NoklaM> I was wondering, i seen it be done in few distros, a big whole screen transparent popup with all the app and categories on the side, search on top and all the apps in mid
[23:00] <sakrecoer_> i think xfce is great. but the ideal would be to be able to pull ubuntustudio from any flavour, and have an integrated sollution for the VAST amount of software it gives :)
[23:00] <sakrecoer_> integrated menu-sollution even
[23:00] <OvenWerks> NoklaM: take the audio menu for example, there is a midi submenu. With the old style menu the mouse just huvering can navigate to an item in the midi submenu. With whisker that is not possible
[23:02] <NoklaM> grr it badly needs a show desktop options too, just spent a minute closing all the windows
[23:02] <OvenWerks> I wanted to try having the main menu, but also in the panel have the main workflow menus beside it. just to see if that was somthing that would grab people.
[23:02] <OvenWerks> Also to have both kinds of menu side by side so that people can try them out at the same time and see which kind they find themselves reaching for.
[23:04] <NoklaM> In all honesty, Studio is great, but... the visuals don't follow the awesome internals
[23:04] <NoklaM> wb OvenWerks 
[23:04] <NoklaM> In all honesty, Studio is great, but... the visuals don't follow the awesome internals
[23:06] <NoklaM> I was expecting, before i even seen it, something more flashy
[23:06] <sakrecoer_> it seems to be a difficult task to keep things homogenic in a free environement :)
[23:07] <sakrecoer_> the landing graphics could be defenitly be streamlined. we realy should give a sweet look, its lts after all.
[23:08] <sakrecoer_> but beyond having an operational desktop that looks good packaged with it, look at each software we have: blender, ardour, gimp... its unhomogenifiable :D
[23:13] <NoklaM> Trying to make a mock but all my photoshop shortcuts are way difrent in gimp xD
[23:14] <sakrecoer_> hehe muscle memory :)
[23:15] <sakrecoer_> NoklaM: are you bart from the list?
[23:15] <NoklaM> Aye :)
[23:15] <sakrecoer_> :)
[23:16] <sakrecoer_> cool! my name is set
[23:16] <NoklaM> Nice to meet you Set :0
[23:16] <NoklaM> :)
[23:17] <sakrecoer_> likewise! help is needed with the graphics, so your ideas are as wanted and welcome as you :)
[23:21] <NoklaM> any idea how do i resterize a layer in gimp?
[23:22] <NoklaM> got it nvm
[23:23] <sakrecoer_> rasterize in what sense?
[23:23] <NoklaM> Was just discard text info and get it to become a normal layer :P
[23:29] <sakrecoer_> in the bzr branch of ubuntu-manualtest, if there is a file, it means someone has tested it right?
[23:33] <NoklaM> yup
[23:33] <NoklaM> you make a new one without the number and name it after the program you're testing :)
[23:36] <NoklaM> http://imgur.com/1rvSTvT <--- OvenWerks  that's something i was thinking off, that could solve a lot of problems
[23:36] <NoklaM> or create a lot more i dunno
[23:36] <NoklaM> don't mind the bad quality it's my first go at gimp
[23:37] <NoklaM> If anything unclear I'll explain
[23:38] <NoklaM> also i had one icon :(
[23:57] <OvenWerks> NoklaM: I am looking at the link above... what am I seeing?
[23:57] <NoklaM> That's the state of the menu after pressing the current logo on the left (my imagination tho)
[23:58] <NoklaM> A big search and icons in a A-Z format which can be customized to Most used and Favourited ones 1st
[23:58] <NoklaM> concept basicly
[23:59] <NoklaM> Scrolling could be done with a flicker of the mouse or just standard scroll 
[23:59] <OvenWerks> search for what?