| _stink_ | if there's a meeting and i'm not here, i vote yes on everything | 01:24 |
|---|---|---|
| Gib | Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we dan use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance . . . | 01:31 |
| Gib | Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we can use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance . . . | 01:44 |
| jrwren | meeting! | 01:58 |
| cmaloney | Hey folks! | 02:00 |
| cmaloney | Hey Gib, thanks for that | 02:00 |
| Gib | Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we can use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance . . . | 02:00 |
| cmaloney | Gib: repetition is unncecessary | 02:01 |
| cmaloney | http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/921/detail/ | 02:02 |
| Gib | Penguicon is also looking to build a computer lab for use during Penguicon. I'm thinking of heading that up if I can get some support. Load Ubuntu on a bunch of computers and let people try it. | 02:02 |
| cmaloney | That's the agenda for the meeting | 02:02 |
| cmaloney | Gib: Cool deal. | 02:02 |
| Gib | Okay, I didn't know if you could see comments entered before you arrive. | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | I know there was another group that did the lab for Penguicon before | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | Not sure if they're still interested in doing that or not | 02:03 |
| Gib | Do we want to work on helping people at penguicon to see Ubuntu and try it out? | 02:04 |
| Gib | Topic is to verify the group. I know, that you put a lot of work into this group. I'm thinking we need to find people to join in to provide more workers. | 02:05 |
| cmaloney | Well, I'd like to explain why we didn't pursue re-verification | 02:06 |
| cmaloney | partly because we don't have sustained contribution | 02:06 |
| Gib | My time on MDLUG has been proof to me that it takes several people all putting in time for anything to keep going. | 02:07 |
| cmaloney | and it seems that it takes a "special event" for folks to come out of the wood-work. :) | 02:07 |
| cmaloney | Part of the reason we don't have a lot of folks to help out is one of the best reasons: they got hired. :) | 02:07 |
| Gib | Perhaps we can leveage more of the existing events. Penguicon, and other cons, other clubs . . . | 02:08 |
| cmaloney | I look at the list of nicks that are Canonical employees and it makes me very happy | 02:08 |
| cmaloney | Gib: That's a good idea | 02:09 |
| cmaloney | we already have some presence with Penguicon | 02:09 |
| cmaloney | I'm looking forward to getting us another release party at Pcon | 02:09 |
| Gib | Join Ubuntu local - get a job? Sounds like an interesting advertising claim. | 02:09 |
| cmaloney | but outside of Penguicon there's not a whole lot of movement in the group | 02:10 |
| cmaloney | Part of which I attribute to the changing focus of Canonical and Ubuntu writ large | 02:10 |
| cmaloney | eg: Convergent devices and Cloud-based services | 02:11 |
| cmaloney | the desktop isn't the happening place anymore | 02:11 |
| Gib | Okay we have PCON, MUG. I plan to attend Confusion the weekend of jan 22. A fall event is Conclavesf.net. Any others? | 02:11 |
| Gib | Alright, so we move to other interests since the desktop is done? | 02:12 |
| cmaloney | I don't know | 02:12 |
| cmaloney | I'm still running Ubuntu | 02:13 |
| Gib | I still run Ubuntu too. | 02:13 |
| cmaloney | But that's my perspective on why participation is low | 02:13 |
| Gib | Yup. We got it as far as it is going to go it seems. | 02:14 |
| Gib | I certaninly have a long list of interests. I could move on to a number of other things. | 02:14 |
| cmaloney | Regardless, I don't see this as the end by any stretch | 02:15 |
| cmaloney | but merely a course correction | 02:15 |
| Gib | So, do we talk about convergent devices and cloud services to follow Canonical? | 02:15 |
| cmaloney | I don't know. that's a question for the loco council | 02:16 |
| Gib | The've hit the penetration levle that they can do on the desktop. They have to widen out to other things to keep growing. | 02:16 |
| Gib | I have a professional interest in convergent devices and cloud services. I'm looking at both of those at work. | 02:18 |
| cmaloney | cool | 02:18 |
| Gib | Speaking of which, I have to go to sleep now. I have $56K worth of equipment that just arrived at work Friday that I need to install. | 02:19 |
| cmaloney | Have fun! | 02:19 |
| cmaloney | Hope to see you on Tuesday! | 02:19 |
| Gib | Ta ta for now. See ya at Mug on Tuesday night. | 02:20 |
| Gib | Bye. | 02:20 |
| cmaloney | ... | 02:21 |
| Scary_Guy | why just Ubuntu? why not also a VM and a bunch of other distros, maybe some live CDs too | 02:21 |
| cmaloney | in what context? | 02:21 |
| Scary_Guy | computer lab should have multiple flavors of linux if you just want to expose people. I know many who hate the default unity interface | 02:22 |
| Scary_Guy | I mean yeah you can change it but how many newbies know that? | 02:22 |
| cmaloney | True. I think Gib was just looking for an activity for the Ubuntu loco to get involved in | 02:22 |
| cmaloney | and his current activity is building this lab | 02:23 |
| Scary_Guy | too bad I got back just after he took off | 02:23 |
| cmaloney | But yeah, that's something to discuss with him. I think it would be neat to see different distros | 02:23 |
| cmaloney | I haven't played with much of anything since I picked up Ubuntu | 02:24 |
| Scary_Guy | well I'm sure you'll run into him before I do. unless you can point him out on Tuesday assuming you are both there | 02:24 |
| cmaloney | I think I'll be there | 02:24 |
| cmaloney | I have a presentation. :) | 02:24 |
| cmaloney | (Which I'm sort of working on now) | 02:24 |
| Scary_Guy | awesome, on what? | 02:25 |
| Scary_Guy | wait, I'll just go look | 02:25 |
| cmaloney | It's nothing big | 02:25 |
| cmaloney | More of an aperitif | 02:25 |
| cmaloney | or a digestif | 02:25 |
| Scary_Guy | nice, I like it | 02:26 |
| Scary_Guy | be sure to mention BSD, Apple, Android, damn near every router probably, toasters, etc.. | 02:27 |
| Scary_Guy | cars | 02:27 |
| cmaloney | heh | 02:27 |
| Scary_Guy | technically some cars that run linux can have android head units in them, so you can linux while you linux | 02:27 |
| Scary_Guy | I'm not sure what OnStar runs. I have a friend who works for them. I should ask her what OS is in it | 02:30 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, not sure | 02:31 |
| cmaloney | I thought my CD player might have Linux on it in my VW, but I think it's QNX | 02:31 |
| Scary_Guy | meh, any *nix is good *nix | 02:32 |
| Scary_Guy | afterall it's MUG, not MLG | 02:32 |
| cmaloney | damn straight | 02:32 |
| cmaloney | that's part of the reason for the presentation | 02:32 |
| cmaloney | UNIX won | 02:32 |
| Scary_Guy | I'll be happier though when mac and win are dead | 02:35 |
| cmaloney | I have no quarrel with Macintosh save for their stupid patent lawsuits and idiotic Macintosh licensing | 02:36 |
| cmaloney | They used to have every system 7 and prior disk available for folks to download | 02:36 |
| cmaloney | no more | 02:36 |
| cmaloney | so instead I gave money to Cloanto for the Amiga OS | 02:36 |
| Scary_Guy | I liked them better before the iPod. then hipsters got on board and everything went south. | 02:38 |
| cmaloney | Apple was hipster before hipsters knew they were hipsters | 02:39 |
| cmaloney | the Macintosh looked at home in Starbucks before there was a Starbucks | 02:39 |
| Scary_Guy | I suppose, I just really hated trying to load anything on windows. I had to get photos off of an iphone once and I needed a special app to do that. android I just plugged it in and it was happy | 02:39 |
| cmaloney | Yeah | 02:40 |
| cmaloney | the reliance on iTunes is killing Apple | 02:40 |
| Scary_Guy | it might not be so bad if iTunes for windows wasn't utter shit | 02:40 |
| cmaloney | mornin' | 13:05 |
| rick_h_ | morning | 14:09 |
| _stink_ | yo | 14:30 |
| cmaloney | How's the morning? | 14:40 |
| rick_h_ | at the airpprt through security | 15:16 |
| rick_h_ | but forgot my tablet keyboard/stand ... so mixed | 15:16 |
| cmaloney | Ugh | 15:24 |
| cmaloney | Started off the morning with a bug that we just discovered that has been like this for about a month | 15:25 |
| cmaloney | related to me cleaning code and not doing it right | 15:26 |
| cmaloney | fucking unicode. | 15:26 |
| rick_h_ | wheeee | 15:48 |
| cmaloney | heh | 16:03 |
| jcastro | greg-g: ping | 16:16 |
| greg-g | jcastro: You sent me a contentless ping. This is a contentless pong. Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around. | 16:16 |
| jcastro | lol I hate you | 16:16 |
| _stink_ | haah | 16:17 |
| greg-g | what do you need lazy person? :) | 16:17 |
| jrwren | use ping -p to set some payload content :p | 16:18 |
| greg-g | jcastro: ack | 16:19 |
| jcastro | greg-g: hey are you still a wikipedian? | 16:19 |
| cmaloney | jcastro: R40 DVD is awesome | 16:27 |
| cmaloney | that is all | 16:27 |
| jcastro | oooh | 16:28 |
| cmaloney | Geddy's singing is a little rough around the wedges | 16:28 |
| cmaloney | edges | 16:28 |
| cmaloney | But something tells me this is the last tour for a while. | 16:29 |
| cmaloney | if not the last tour | 16:29 |
| cmaloney | at least until Neil recouperates and has more time with Olivia | 16:29 |
| greg-g | jcastro: yup | 16:29 |
| jcastro | greg-g: hey is there like a contrib section or something for mediawiki? We'd like to maintain our charm more in lockstep with upstream | 16:30 |
| greg-g | git pull master every week? :) | 16:31 |
| jcastro | no I mean for our code to live | 16:31 |
| greg-g | oh, extensions | 16:31 |
| cmaloney | aka: they want to make it your problem. ;) | 16:31 |
| jcastro | like, is there a place where people collect puppet and chef scripts, etc. | 16:31 |
| greg-g | oh... | 16:31 |
| greg-g | not within mediawiki itself | 16:31 |
| jcastro | right | 16:31 |
| greg-g | there's projects like MW-Vagrant | 16:31 |
| greg-g | but yeah, we don't care :) | 16:32 |
| jcastro | ok so you guys don't have like a forge or something | 16:32 |
| cmaloney | as evidenced by the MW install instructions. ;) | 16:32 |
| jcastro | or whatever people call it | 16:32 |
| greg-g | cmaloney: yes yes :) | 16:33 |
| greg-g | we're a "HEAD or gtfo" kind of dev team | 16:33 |
| greg-g | ungenerously | 16:33 |
| jrwren | nice! I like that. | 16:33 |
| greg-g | but really, we really care, we just don't have the time to care | 16:33 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: TOngue was firmly in cheek | 16:34 |
| jcastro | greg-g: so other than the core wikitech puppet production stuff, everything else just lives on the rest of the internet? | 16:37 |
| greg-g | everything we care about is in gerrit | 16:39 |
| greg-g | our gerrit, gerrit.wikimedia.org | 16:39 |
| greg-g | (migrating to Phabricator for code-review this next year, if all goes well!) | 16:39 |
| greg-g | but yeah, they'd be a separate project/repo | 16:39 |
| jcastro | can people apply for project/repos? | 16:40 |
| greg-g | it'd be an interesting discussion to include them in the mw repo itself | 16:40 |
| greg-g | yep | 16:40 |
| jcastro | this is similar to what postgres has, we're doing the same with them | 16:40 |
| jcastro | greg-g: link me up to some instructions and we'll do it! | 16:40 |
| greg-g | jcastro: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories | 16:44 |
| jcastro | awesome, thanks dude! | 16:45 |
| jcastro | greg-g: do you recommend requesting or should I bring it up on a list first? | 16:46 |
| jcastro | just in case they get all craig and be like "code dumpers!" | 16:46 |
| greg-g | :) | 16:46 |
| greg-g | a conversation on-list is never a bad idea, honestly | 16:47 |
| greg-g | https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l | 16:47 |
| jcastro | ack, will do so, <3 thanks | 16:47 |
| greg-g | np | 16:47 |
| jcastro | out of curiosity, does mediawiki run on php7 yet? | 16:48 |
| cmaloney | Does anything? | 16:48 |
| cmaloney | How big is the change? | 16:48 |
| jcastro | I am debating asking aisrael to do a mediawiki performance benchmark between normal php, hhvm, and php7 for great justice | 16:49 |
| cmaloney | iirc it was only released last week Thursday | 16:49 |
| jrwren | that would be sweet! | 16:49 |
| cmaloney | also: I really, really hate MySQL's laxness | 16:50 |
| cmaloney | Searches with = are case insensitive | 16:51 |
| aisrael | jcastro: I wouldn't be opposed to it. I still do plenty of PHP stuff on the side that I could use that kind of testing. | 16:52 |
| aisrael | jcastro: any progress on finding/suckering someone in to write a php layer? | 16:52 |
| greg-g | jcastro: no re php7, see the gory details at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T118932 | 16:53 |
| greg-g | (that's about min version) | 16:54 |
| greg-g | re php7: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/?statuses=open%28%29&projects=PHID-PROJ-uvzjhw46mbirlh2cho4z#R | 16:54 |
| jcastro | greg-g: that doesn't look as bad as I was expecting for a large project | 16:59 |
| jcastro | aisrael: yeah I think we need to not have an apache-php one before I impress anyone | 16:59 |
| jcastro | aisrael: the dude who started cacti is part of the AA PHP group | 16:59 |
| jcastro | it was pretty fun, I'm going to go regularly I think | 16:59 |
| aisrael | jcastro: Nice. How often do they meet, once a month? | 17:00 |
| jcastro | still deciding on that, sounds like every other month for now | 17:00 |
| jcastro | http://michigandevs.com/ has a slack channel for them | 17:00 |
| aisrael | I need to come over a little more regularly | 17:00 |
| jcastro | I idle in there | 17:00 |
| cmaloney | Speaking of meetings, MUG meeting tomorrow | 17:00 |
| jcastro | in #annarborphp | 17:01 |
| cmaloney | SSL and "Oh the Places UNIX'll go" | 17:01 |
| jcastro | everytime I see a slack link I actually think of you greg-g | 17:01 |
| aisrael | Oh good. I like slack more than telegram | 17:01 |
| greg-g | jcastro: I'm glad, I hope you think "he would hate it" | 17:01 |
| greg-g | :) | 17:01 |
| jcastro | I do | 17:01 |
| cmaloney | hah | 17:01 |
| cmaloney | That's what I figured. | 17:01 |
| greg-g | irssi4life | 17:02 |
| jcastro | when I saw the blog post going around "stop using slack for oss projects" I was like, aha! GREG probably wrote that | 17:02 |
| cmaloney | I remember seeing that on Identi.ca | 17:02 |
| jrwren | high 5 greg-g ! | 17:03 |
| jcastro | irssi is weaksauce | 17:03 |
| jcastro | weechat 4 eva | 17:03 |
| cmaloney | Weechat fistbump | 17:04 |
| jcastro | It's sad that slack is so awesome | 17:06 |
| jcastro | and irc is not fun | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | IRc is fun | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | we just don't have emoji and vieo | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | video | 17:06 |
| jcastro | or push | 17:06 |
| jcastro | or persistance. :) | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | what's push? | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | Persistence is overrated | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | We're like Twitter | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | Ephemeral | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | fleeting | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | whoosh, there it goes | 17:06 |
| cmaloney | Oh, mobile push notifications? | 17:07 |
| cmaloney | Bah | 17:07 |
| cmaloney | sit in a ssh channel like a gentleman | 17:07 |
| cmaloney | ;) | 17:07 |
| cmaloney | Allow yourself the freedom to disconnect for a while | 17:08 |
| cmaloney | *om* | 17:08 |
| cmaloney | IRC: The zen way to communicate | 17:08 |
| cmaloney | Dammit, Mr. Rumbold from Are You Being Served passed away | 17:09 |
| cmaloney | There goes the reunion rumors. | 17:09 |
| jcastro | man guys, I got some ubiquiti gear because I am tired of crappy consumer wifi | 17:12 |
| jcastro | and it's glorious | 17:12 |
| cmaloney | heh | 17:34 |
| * The_Machine shivers | 17:35 | |
| The_Machine | what flavor ubnt gear? | 17:35 |
| The_Machine | i use it all of the time | 17:35 |
| cmaloney | Go Enterprise or go home | 17:35 |
| * The_Machine isn't sure he would call unifi AP enterprise, but it's aiight | 17:35 | |
| The_Machine | so cold in my house dammit | 17:36 |
| cmaloney | http://www.computerworld.com/article/3012278/microsoft-windows/microsoft-sets-stage-for-massive-windows-10-upgrade-strategy.html | 17:53 |
| jrwren | i'm about to block update.microsoft.com on my home network. | 17:55 |
| jrwren | apparently all that spy stuff people complain about in win10 got pushed as updates to win 8 and 7 too. | 17:56 |
| jrwren | so it doesn't matter if you didn't upgrade to 10. you are getting spied on just teh same. | 17:56 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, it's ridiculous | 17:58 |
| The_Machine | heh | 18:12 |
| The_Machine | you guys think it's actually identifiable information? | 18:13 |
| The_Machine | I think they're sending a lot of data | 18:13 |
| The_Machine | but not traceable in the scary sense of things | 18:13 |
| greg-g | what makes you think that? | 18:13 |
| jrwren | i don't care what it is. I demand the ability to turn it all off. | 18:15 |
| The_Machine | do you demand that ability with your phone as well? | 18:15 |
| jrwren | There has been no evidence that it is identifiable. My IP address is identifiable, so it is identifiable. | 18:16 |
| jrwren | Yes, I do demand it of my phone. | 18:16 |
| cmaloney | And regardless it's yet another breach of trust | 19:01 |
| jrwren | exactly. | 19:02 |
| cmaloney | It's basically saying "We understand you don't want Windows 10 for some reason but we don't care" | 19:02 |
| cmaloney | "Your preference is irrelevant" | 19:03 |
| cmaloney | And that's unacceptable | 19:03 |
| cmaloney | What pisses me off is folks think that's OK in the first place | 19:03 |
| cmaloney | I wouldn't be nearly as pissed if Microsoft said "we need to concentrate on Windows 10 instead of supporting Windows 7 so we want as many folks on Windows 10 as possible" | 19:04 |
| cmaloney | Renegotiate the agreement | 19:05 |
| cmaloney | allow me the choice to understand your position | 19:05 |
| cmaloney | telling me it's for my own good is when I check my fingers, wrists and wallet | 19:05 |
| The_Machine70x7 | good points | 19:05 |
| cmaloney | And Microsoft is making their "Scroogled" campaign woefully ironic | 19:07 |
| cmaloney | Apple is demonstrating they care about privacy | 19:07 |
| cmaloney | Even though it's hurting their image as the "it just works" company | 19:08 |
| cmaloney | I have to give them credit | 19:08 |
| cmaloney | I wanted to believe in Nardelli's Microsoft. I think he can still do good things | 19:09 |
| cmaloney | but Windows 10 is really screwing with my belief. | 19:09 |
| jrwren | same here. | 19:10 |
| jrwren | i'll forgive them when the enable posix in all windows versions. | 19:10 |
| jrwren | them not doing so it stpuid and pointless. | 19:10 |
| cmaloney | I have a line about Posix in my presentation for tomorrow | 19:11 |
| cmaloney | something about "what the hell were they thinking"? :) | 19:11 |
| jrwren | :) | 19:11 |
| cmaloney | Good to know someone loves it | 19:11 |
| jrwren | well, not NT posix | 19:12 |
| jrwren | but the idea of std posix api has worked. | 19:12 |
| jrwren | varying linux distros, BSDs, other unixes, they all work with same source code largely because of posix. | 19:12 |
| cmaloney | Well, I blame NT Posix on Microsoft following the letter and not the spirit | 19:13 |
| jrwren | http://brianreiter.org/2010/08/24/the-sad-history-of-the-microsoft-posix-subsystem/ | 19:13 |
| jrwren | i blame nt posix on them not shipping it. | 19:13 |
| jrwren | no would coudl ship software based onit because it was only in enterprise windows. | 19:13 |
| cmaloney | I thought NT was POSIX-compliant? | 19:13 |
| cmaloney | ah | 19:13 |
| cmaloney | Shows how much I paid attention | 19:13 |
| cmaloney | Though I think at this point it's almost like getting mad at them for no longer supporting CORBA | 19:14 |
| cmaloney | Honestly it's become a UNIX vs Windows world by my reckoning | 19:16 |
| cmaloney | Apparently I'm about one porch shy of going full-southern | 19:19 |
| jrwren | i just get angry because nothing works. | 19:20 |
| jrwren | win7 was the best env I had, but it was lacking so much... so much like actual unix tools. | 19:20 |
| jrwren | if msft would jsut ship win7 with posix enabled so I could build unix tools on top, without the cygwin stupid layer... it would be a nice OS IMO | 19:21 |
| cmaloney | heh, and say Dennis Ritchie was right? | 19:21 |
| cmaloney | Never | 19:21 |
| jrwren | they could claim best of both worlds. | 19:22 |
| cmaloney | I think Microsoft would sooner set themselves on fire | 19:22 |
| jrwren | their VMS roots fused with UNIX roots. | 19:22 |
| jrwren | stranger things have happened. | 19:22 |
| cmaloney | http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/DennisRitchie.gif | 19:22 |
| jrwren | lol | 19:22 |
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