[01:24] <_stink_> if there's a meeting and i'm not here, i vote yes on everything [01:31] Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we dan use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance . . . [01:44] Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we can use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance . . . [01:58] meeting! [02:00] Hey folks! [02:00] Hey Gib, thanks for that [02:00] Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we can use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance . . . [02:01] Gib: repetition is unncecessary [02:02] http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/921/detail/ [02:02] Penguicon is also looking to build a computer lab for use during Penguicon. I'm thinking of heading that up if I can get some support. Load Ubuntu on a bunch of computers and let people try it. [02:02] That's the agenda for the meeting [02:02] Gib: Cool deal. [02:03] Okay, I didn't know if you could see comments entered before you arrive. [02:03] I know there was another group that did the lab for Penguicon before [02:03] Not sure if they're still interested in doing that or not [02:04] Do we want to work on helping people at penguicon to see Ubuntu and try it out? [02:05] Topic is to verify the group. I know, that you put a lot of work into this group. I'm thinking we need to find people to join in to provide more workers. [02:06] Well, I'd like to explain why we didn't pursue re-verification [02:06] partly because we don't have sustained contribution [02:07] My time on MDLUG has been proof to me that it takes several people all putting in time for anything to keep going. [02:07] and it seems that it takes a "special event" for folks to come out of the wood-work. :) [02:07] Part of the reason we don't have a lot of folks to help out is one of the best reasons: they got hired. :) [02:08] Perhaps we can leveage more of the existing events. Penguicon, and other cons, other clubs . . . [02:08] I look at the list of nicks that are Canonical employees and it makes me very happy [02:09] Gib: That's a good idea [02:09] we already have some presence with Penguicon [02:09] I'm looking forward to getting us another release party at Pcon [02:09] Join Ubuntu local - get a job? Sounds like an interesting advertising claim. [02:10] but outside of Penguicon there's not a whole lot of movement in the group [02:10] Part of which I attribute to the changing focus of Canonical and Ubuntu writ large [02:11] eg: Convergent devices and Cloud-based services [02:11] the desktop isn't the happening place anymore [02:11] Okay we have PCON, MUG. I plan to attend Confusion the weekend of jan 22. A fall event is Conclavesf.net. Any others? [02:12] Alright, so we move to other interests since the desktop is done? [02:12] I don't know [02:13] I'm still running Ubuntu [02:13] I still run Ubuntu too. [02:13] But that's my perspective on why participation is low [02:14] Yup. We got it as far as it is going to go it seems. [02:14] I certaninly have a long list of interests. I could move on to a number of other things. [02:15] Regardless, I don't see this as the end by any stretch [02:15] but merely a course correction [02:15] So, do we talk about convergent devices and cloud services to follow Canonical? [02:16] I don't know. that's a question for the loco council [02:16] The've hit the penetration levle that they can do on the desktop. They have to widen out to other things to keep growing. [02:18] I have a professional interest in convergent devices and cloud services. I'm looking at both of those at work. [02:18] cool [02:19] Speaking of which, I have to go to sleep now. I have $56K worth of equipment that just arrived at work Friday that I need to install. [02:19] Have fun! [02:19] Hope to see you on Tuesday! [02:20] Ta ta for now. See ya at Mug on Tuesday night. [02:20] Bye. [02:21] ... [02:21] why just Ubuntu? why not also a VM and a bunch of other distros, maybe some live CDs too [02:21] in what context? [02:22] computer lab should have multiple flavors of linux if you just want to expose people. I know many who hate the default unity interface [02:22] I mean yeah you can change it but how many newbies know that? [02:22] True. I think Gib was just looking for an activity for the Ubuntu loco to get involved in [02:23] and his current activity is building this lab [02:23] too bad I got back just after he took off [02:23] But yeah, that's something to discuss with him. I think it would be neat to see different distros [02:24] I haven't played with much of anything since I picked up Ubuntu [02:24] well I'm sure you'll run into him before I do. unless you can point him out on Tuesday assuming you are both there [02:24] I think I'll be there [02:24] I have a presentation. :) [02:24] (Which I'm sort of working on now) [02:25] awesome, on what? [02:25] wait, I'll just go look [02:25] It's nothing big [02:25] More of an aperitif [02:25] or a digestif [02:26] nice, I like it [02:27] be sure to mention BSD, Apple, Android, damn near every router probably, toasters, etc.. [02:27] cars [02:27] heh [02:27] technically some cars that run linux can have android head units in them, so you can linux while you linux [02:30] I'm not sure what OnStar runs. I have a friend who works for them. I should ask her what OS is in it [02:31] Yeah, not sure [02:31] I thought my CD player might have Linux on it in my VW, but I think it's QNX [02:32] meh, any *nix is good *nix [02:32] afterall it's MUG, not MLG [02:32] damn straight [02:32] that's part of the reason for the presentation [02:32] UNIX won [02:35] I'll be happier though when mac and win are dead [02:36] I have no quarrel with Macintosh save for their stupid patent lawsuits and idiotic Macintosh licensing [02:36] They used to have every system 7 and prior disk available for folks to download [02:36] no more [02:36] so instead I gave money to Cloanto for the Amiga OS [02:38] I liked them better before the iPod. then hipsters got on board and everything went south. [02:39] Apple was hipster before hipsters knew they were hipsters [02:39] the Macintosh looked at home in Starbucks before there was a Starbucks [02:39] I suppose, I just really hated trying to load anything on windows. I had to get photos off of an iphone once and I needed a special app to do that. android I just plugged it in and it was happy [02:40] Yeah [02:40] the reliance on iTunes is killing Apple [02:40] it might not be so bad if iTunes for windows wasn't utter shit [13:05] mornin' [14:09] morning [14:30] <_stink_> yo [14:40] How's the morning? [15:16] at the airpprt through security [15:16] but forgot my tablet keyboard/stand ... so mixed [15:24] Ugh [15:25] Started off the morning with a bug that we just discovered that has been like this for about a month [15:26] related to me cleaning code and not doing it right [15:26] fucking unicode. [15:48] wheeee [16:03] heh [16:16] greg-g: ping [16:16] jcastro: You sent me a contentless ping. This is a contentless pong. Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around. [16:16] lol I hate you [16:17] <_stink_> haah [16:17] what do you need lazy person? :) [16:18] use ping -p to set some payload content :p [16:19] jcastro: ack [16:19] greg-g: hey are you still a wikipedian? [16:27] jcastro: R40 DVD is awesome [16:27] that is all [16:28] oooh [16:28] Geddy's singing is a little rough around the wedges [16:28] edges [16:29] But something tells me this is the last tour for a while. [16:29] if not the last tour [16:29] at least until Neil recouperates and has more time with Olivia [16:29] jcastro: yup [16:30] greg-g: hey is there like a contrib section or something for mediawiki? We'd like to maintain our charm more in lockstep with upstream [16:31] git pull master every week? :) [16:31] no I mean for our code to live [16:31] oh, extensions [16:31] aka: they want to make it your problem. ;) [16:31] like, is there a place where people collect puppet and chef scripts, etc. [16:31] oh... [16:31] not within mediawiki itself [16:31] right [16:31] there's projects like MW-Vagrant [16:32] but yeah, we don't care :) [16:32] ok so you guys don't have like a forge or something [16:32] as evidenced by the MW install instructions. ;) [16:32] or whatever people call it [16:33] cmaloney: yes yes :) [16:33] we're a "HEAD or gtfo" kind of dev team [16:33] ungenerously [16:33] nice! I like that. [16:33] but really, we really care, we just don't have the time to care [16:34] greg-g: TOngue was firmly in cheek [16:37] greg-g: so other than the core wikitech puppet production stuff, everything else just lives on the rest of the internet? [16:39] everything we care about is in gerrit [16:39] our gerrit, gerrit.wikimedia.org [16:39] (migrating to Phabricator for code-review this next year, if all goes well!) [16:39] but yeah, they'd be a separate project/repo [16:40] can people apply for project/repos? [16:40] it'd be an interesting discussion to include them in the mw repo itself [16:40] yep [16:40] this is similar to what postgres has, we're doing the same with them [16:40] greg-g: link me up to some instructions and we'll do it! [16:44] jcastro: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories [16:45] awesome, thanks dude! [16:46] greg-g: do you recommend requesting or should I bring it up on a list first? [16:46] just in case they get all craig and be like "code dumpers!" [16:46] :) [16:47] a conversation on-list is never a bad idea, honestly [16:47] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l [16:47] ack, will do so, <3 thanks [16:47] np [16:48] out of curiosity, does mediawiki run on php7 yet? [16:48] Does anything? [16:48] How big is the change? [16:49] I am debating asking aisrael to do a mediawiki performance benchmark between normal php, hhvm, and php7 for great justice [16:49] iirc it was only released last week Thursday [16:49] that would be sweet! [16:50] also: I really, really hate MySQL's laxness [16:51] Searches with = are case insensitive [16:52] jcastro: I wouldn't be opposed to it. I still do plenty of PHP stuff on the side that I could use that kind of testing. [16:52] jcastro: any progress on finding/suckering someone in to write a php layer? [16:53] jcastro: no re php7, see the gory details at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T118932 [16:54] (that's about min version) [16:54] re php7: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/?statuses=open%28%29&projects=PHID-PROJ-uvzjhw46mbirlh2cho4z#R [16:59] greg-g: that doesn't look as bad as I was expecting for a large project [16:59] aisrael: yeah I think we need to not have an apache-php one before I impress anyone [16:59] aisrael: the dude who started cacti is part of the AA PHP group [16:59] it was pretty fun, I'm going to go regularly I think [17:00] jcastro: Nice. How often do they meet, once a month? [17:00] still deciding on that, sounds like every other month for now [17:00] http://michigandevs.com/ has a slack channel for them [17:00] I need to come over a little more regularly [17:00] I idle in there [17:00] Speaking of meetings, MUG meeting tomorrow [17:01] in #annarborphp [17:01] SSL and "Oh the Places UNIX'll go" [17:01] everytime I see a slack link I actually think of you greg-g [17:01] Oh good. I like slack more than telegram [17:01] jcastro: I'm glad, I hope you think "he would hate it" [17:01] :) [17:01] I do [17:01] hah [17:01] That's what I figured. [17:02] irssi4life [17:02] when I saw the blog post going around "stop using slack for oss projects" I was like, aha! GREG probably wrote that [17:02] I remember seeing that on Identi.ca [17:03] high 5 greg-g ! [17:03] irssi is weaksauce [17:03] weechat 4 eva [17:04] Weechat fistbump [17:06] It's sad that slack is so awesome [17:06] and irc is not fun [17:06] IRc is fun [17:06] we just don't have emoji and vieo [17:06] video [17:06] or push [17:06] or persistance. :) [17:06] what's push? [17:06] Persistence is overrated [17:06] We're like Twitter [17:06] Ephemeral [17:06] fleeting [17:06] whoosh, there it goes [17:07] Oh, mobile push notifications? [17:07] Bah [17:07] sit in a ssh channel like a gentleman [17:07] ;) [17:08] Allow yourself the freedom to disconnect for a while [17:08] *om* [17:08] IRC: The zen way to communicate [17:09] Dammit, Mr. Rumbold from Are You Being Served passed away [17:09] There goes the reunion rumors. [17:12] man guys, I got some ubiquiti gear because I am tired of crappy consumer wifi [17:12] and it's glorious [17:34] heh [17:35] * The_Machine shivers [17:35] what flavor ubnt gear? [17:35] i use it all of the time [17:35] Go Enterprise or go home [17:35] * The_Machine isn't sure he would call unifi AP enterprise, but it's aiight [17:36] so cold in my house dammit [17:53] http://www.computerworld.com/article/3012278/microsoft-windows/microsoft-sets-stage-for-massive-windows-10-upgrade-strategy.html [17:55] i'm about to block update.microsoft.com on my home network. [17:56] apparently all that spy stuff people complain about in win10 got pushed as updates to win 8 and 7 too. [17:56] so it doesn't matter if you didn't upgrade to 10. you are getting spied on just teh same. [17:58] Yeah, it's ridiculous [18:12] heh [18:13] you guys think it's actually identifiable information? [18:13] I think they're sending a lot of data [18:13] but not traceable in the scary sense of things [18:13] what makes you think that? [18:15] i don't care what it is. I demand the ability to turn it all off. [18:15] do you demand that ability with your phone as well? [18:16] There has been no evidence that it is identifiable. My IP address is identifiable, so it is identifiable. [18:16] Yes, I do demand it of my phone. [19:01] And regardless it's yet another breach of trust [19:02] exactly. [19:02] It's basically saying "We understand you don't want Windows 10 for some reason but we don't care" [19:03] "Your preference is irrelevant" [19:03] And that's unacceptable [19:03] What pisses me off is folks think that's OK in the first place [19:04] I wouldn't be nearly as pissed if Microsoft said "we need to concentrate on Windows 10 instead of supporting Windows 7 so we want as many folks on Windows 10 as possible" [19:05] Renegotiate the agreement [19:05] allow me the choice to understand your position [19:05] telling me it's for my own good is when I check my fingers, wrists and wallet [19:05] good points [19:07] And Microsoft is making their "Scroogled" campaign woefully ironic [19:07] Apple is demonstrating they care about privacy [19:08] Even though it's hurting their image as the "it just works" company [19:08] I have to give them credit [19:09] I wanted to believe in Nardelli's Microsoft. I think he can still do good things [19:09] but Windows 10 is really screwing with my belief. [19:10] same here. [19:10] i'll forgive them when the enable posix in all windows versions. [19:10] them not doing so it stpuid and pointless. [19:11] I have a line about Posix in my presentation for tomorrow [19:11] something about "what the hell were they thinking"? :) [19:11] :) [19:11] Good to know someone loves it [19:12] well, not NT posix [19:12] but the idea of std posix api has worked. [19:12] varying linux distros, BSDs, other unixes, they all work with same source code largely because of posix. [19:13] Well, I blame NT Posix on Microsoft following the letter and not the spirit [19:13] http://brianreiter.org/2010/08/24/the-sad-history-of-the-microsoft-posix-subsystem/ [19:13] i blame nt posix on them not shipping it. [19:13] no would coudl ship software based onit because it was only in enterprise windows. [19:13] I thought NT was POSIX-compliant? [19:13] ah [19:13] Shows how much I paid attention [19:14] Though I think at this point it's almost like getting mad at them for no longer supporting CORBA [19:16] Honestly it's become a UNIX vs Windows world by my reckoning [19:19] Apparently I'm about one porch shy of going full-southern [19:20] i just get angry because nothing works. [19:20] win7 was the best env I had, but it was lacking so much... so much like actual unix tools. [19:21] if msft would jsut ship win7 with posix enabled so I could build unix tools on top, without the cygwin stupid layer... it would be a nice OS IMO [19:21] heh, and say Dennis Ritchie was right? [19:21] Never [19:22] they could claim best of both worlds. [19:22] I think Microsoft would sooner set themselves on fire [19:22] their VMS roots fused with UNIX roots. [19:22] stranger things have happened. [19:22] http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/DennisRitchie.gif [19:22] lol