[01:24] <_stink_> if there's a meeting and i'm not here, i vote yes on everything
[01:31] <Gib> Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we dan use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance  . . .
[01:44] <Gib> Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we can use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance  . . .
[01:58] <jrwren> meeting!
[02:00] <cmaloney> Hey folks!
[02:00] <cmaloney> Hey Gib, thanks for that
[02:00] <Gib> Penguicon meeting today had a good turn out. I'm not sure how we can use that group to help us build a better Ubuntu local. I'm working on MDLUG attendance  . . .
[02:01] <cmaloney> Gib: repetition is unncecessary
[02:02] <cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/921/detail/
[02:02] <Gib> Penguicon is also looking to build a computer lab for use during Penguicon. I'm thinking of heading that up if I can get some support.  Load Ubuntu on a bunch of computers and let people try it.
[02:02] <cmaloney> That's the agenda for the meeting
[02:02] <cmaloney> Gib: Cool deal.
[02:03] <Gib> Okay, I didn't know if you could see comments entered before you arrive.
[02:03] <cmaloney> I know there was another group that did the lab for Penguicon before
[02:03] <cmaloney> Not sure if they're still interested in doing that or not
[02:04] <Gib> Do we want to work on helping people at penguicon to see Ubuntu and try it out?
[02:05] <Gib> Topic is to verify the group. I know, that you put a lot of work into this group. I'm thinking we need to find people to join in to provide more workers.
[02:06] <cmaloney> Well, I'd like to explain why we didn't pursue re-verification
[02:06] <cmaloney> partly because we don't have sustained contribution
[02:07] <Gib> My time on MDLUG has been proof to me that it takes several people all putting in time for anything to keep going.
[02:07] <cmaloney> and it seems that it takes a "special event" for folks to come out of the wood-work. :)
[02:07] <cmaloney> Part of the reason we don't have a lot of folks to help out is one of the best reasons: they got hired. :)
[02:08] <Gib> Perhaps we can leveage more of the existing events.  Penguicon, and other cons, other clubs . . .
[02:08] <cmaloney> I look at the list of nicks that are Canonical employees and it makes me very happy
[02:09] <cmaloney> Gib: That's a good idea
[02:09] <cmaloney> we already have some presence with Penguicon
[02:09] <cmaloney> I'm looking forward to getting us another release party at Pcon
[02:09] <Gib> Join Ubuntu local - get a job?  Sounds like an interesting advertising claim.
[02:10] <cmaloney> but outside of Penguicon there's not a whole lot of movement in the group
[02:10] <cmaloney> Part of which I attribute to the changing focus of Canonical and Ubuntu writ large
[02:11] <cmaloney> eg: Convergent devices and Cloud-based services
[02:11] <cmaloney> the desktop isn't the happening place anymore
[02:11] <Gib> Okay we have PCON, MUG.  I plan to attend Confusion the weekend of jan 22.  A fall event is Conclavesf.net. Any others?
[02:12] <Gib> Alright, so we move to other interests since the desktop is done?
[02:12] <cmaloney> I don't know
[02:13] <cmaloney> I'm still running Ubuntu
[02:13] <Gib> I still run Ubuntu too.
[02:13] <cmaloney> But that's my perspective on why participation is low
[02:14] <Gib> Yup. We got it as far as it is going to go it seems.
[02:14] <Gib> I certaninly have a long list of interests.  I could move on to a number of other things.
[02:15] <cmaloney> Regardless, I don't see this as the end by any stretch
[02:15] <cmaloney> but merely a course correction
[02:15] <Gib> So, do we talk about convergent devices and cloud services to follow Canonical?
[02:16] <cmaloney> I don't know. that's a question for the loco council
[02:16] <Gib> The've hit the penetration levle that they can do on the desktop.  They have to widen out to other things to keep growing.
[02:18] <Gib> I have a professional interest in convergent devices and cloud services. I'm looking at both of those at work.
[02:18] <cmaloney> cool
[02:19] <Gib> Speaking of which, I have to go to sleep now.  I have $56K worth of equipment that just arrived at work Friday that I need to install.
[02:19] <cmaloney> Have fun!
[02:19] <cmaloney> Hope to see you on Tuesday!
[02:20] <Gib> Ta ta for now.  See ya at Mug on Tuesday night.
[02:20] <Gib> Bye.
[02:21] <cmaloney> ...
[02:21] <Scary_Guy> why just Ubuntu?  why not also a VM and a bunch of other distros, maybe some live CDs too
[02:21] <cmaloney> in what context?
[02:22] <Scary_Guy> computer lab should have multiple flavors of linux if you just want to expose people.  I know many who hate the default unity interface
[02:22] <Scary_Guy> I mean yeah you can change it but how many newbies know that?
[02:22] <cmaloney> True. I think Gib was just looking for an activity for the Ubuntu loco to get involved in
[02:23] <cmaloney> and his current activity is building this lab
[02:23] <Scary_Guy> too bad I got back just after he took off
[02:23] <cmaloney> But yeah, that's something to discuss with him. I think it would be neat to see different distros
[02:24] <cmaloney> I haven't played with much of anything since I picked up Ubuntu
[02:24] <Scary_Guy> well I'm sure you'll run into him before I do.  unless you can point him out on Tuesday assuming you are both there
[02:24] <cmaloney> I think I'll be there
[02:24] <cmaloney> I have a presentation. :)
[02:24] <cmaloney> (Which I'm sort of working on now)
[02:25] <Scary_Guy> awesome, on what?
[02:25] <Scary_Guy> wait, I'll just go look
[02:25] <cmaloney> It's nothing big
[02:25] <cmaloney> More of an aperitif
[02:25] <cmaloney> or a digestif
[02:26] <Scary_Guy> nice, I like it
[02:27] <Scary_Guy> be sure to mention BSD, Apple, Android, damn near every router probably, toasters, etc..
[02:27] <Scary_Guy> cars
[02:27] <cmaloney> heh
[02:27] <Scary_Guy> technically some cars that run linux can have android head units in them, so you can linux while you linux
[02:30] <Scary_Guy> I'm not sure what OnStar runs.  I have a friend who works for them.  I should ask her what OS is in it
[02:31] <cmaloney> Yeah, not sure
[02:31] <cmaloney> I thought my CD player might have Linux on it in my VW, but I think it's QNX
[02:32] <Scary_Guy> meh, any *nix is good *nix
[02:32] <Scary_Guy> afterall it's MUG, not MLG
[02:32] <cmaloney> damn straight
[02:32] <cmaloney> that's part of the reason for the presentation
[02:32] <cmaloney> UNIX won
[02:35] <Scary_Guy> I'll be happier though when mac and win are dead
[02:36] <cmaloney> I have no quarrel with Macintosh save for their stupid patent lawsuits and idiotic Macintosh licensing
[02:36] <cmaloney> They used to have every system 7 and prior disk available for folks to download
[02:36] <cmaloney> no more
[02:36] <cmaloney> so instead I gave money to Cloanto for the Amiga OS
[02:38] <Scary_Guy> I liked them better before the iPod.  then hipsters got on board and everything went south.
[02:39] <cmaloney> Apple was hipster before hipsters knew they were hipsters
[02:39] <cmaloney> the Macintosh looked at home in Starbucks before there was a Starbucks
[02:39] <Scary_Guy> I suppose, I just really hated trying to load anything on windows.  I had to get photos off of an iphone once and I needed a special app to do that.  android I just plugged it in and it was happy
[02:40] <cmaloney> Yeah
[02:40] <cmaloney> the reliance on iTunes is killing Apple
[02:40] <Scary_Guy> it might not be so bad if iTunes for windows wasn't utter shit
[13:05] <cmaloney> mornin'
[14:09] <rick_h_> morning
[14:30] <_stink_> yo
[14:40] <cmaloney> How's the morning?
[15:16] <rick_h_> at the airpprt through security
[15:16] <rick_h_> but forgot my tablet keyboard/stand ... so mixed
[15:24] <cmaloney> Ugh
[15:25] <cmaloney> Started off the morning with a bug that we just discovered that has been like this for about a month
[15:26] <cmaloney> related to me cleaning code and not doing it right
[15:26] <cmaloney> fucking unicode.
[15:48] <rick_h_> wheeee
[16:03] <cmaloney> heh
[16:16] <jcastro> greg-g: ping
[16:16] <greg-g> jcastro: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[16:16] <jcastro> lol I hate you
[16:17] <_stink_> haah
[16:17] <greg-g> what do you need lazy person? :)
[16:18] <jrwren> use ping -p to set some payload content :p
[16:19] <greg-g> jcastro: ack
[16:19] <jcastro> greg-g: hey are you still a wikipedian?
[16:27] <cmaloney> jcastro: R40 DVD is awesome
[16:27] <cmaloney> that is all
[16:28] <jcastro> oooh
[16:28] <cmaloney> Geddy's singing is a little rough around the wedges
[16:28] <cmaloney> edges
[16:29] <cmaloney> But something tells me this is the last tour for a while.
[16:29] <cmaloney> if not the last tour
[16:29] <cmaloney> at least until Neil recouperates and has more time with Olivia
[16:29] <greg-g> jcastro: yup
[16:30] <jcastro> greg-g: hey is there like a contrib section or something for mediawiki? We'd like to maintain our charm more in lockstep with upstream
[16:31] <greg-g> git pull master every week? :)
[16:31] <jcastro> no I mean for our code to live
[16:31] <greg-g> oh, extensions
[16:31] <cmaloney> aka: they want to make it your problem. ;)
[16:31] <jcastro> like, is there a place where people collect puppet and chef scripts, etc.
[16:31] <greg-g> oh...
[16:31] <greg-g> not within mediawiki itself
[16:31] <jcastro> right
[16:31] <greg-g> there's projects like MW-Vagrant
[16:32] <greg-g> but yeah, we don't care :)
[16:32] <jcastro> ok so you guys don't have like a forge or something
[16:32] <cmaloney> as evidenced by the MW install instructions. ;)
[16:32] <jcastro> or whatever people call it
[16:33] <greg-g> cmaloney: yes yes :)
[16:33] <greg-g> we're a "HEAD or gtfo" kind of dev team
[16:33] <greg-g> ungenerously
[16:33] <jrwren> nice! I like that.
[16:33] <greg-g> but really, we really care, we just don't have the time to care
[16:34] <cmaloney> greg-g: TOngue was firmly in cheek
[16:37] <jcastro> greg-g: so other than the core wikitech puppet production stuff, everything else just lives on the rest of the internet?
[16:39] <greg-g> everything we care about is in gerrit
[16:39] <greg-g> our gerrit, gerrit.wikimedia.org
[16:39] <greg-g> (migrating to Phabricator for code-review this next year, if all goes well!)
[16:39] <greg-g> but yeah, they'd be a separate project/repo
[16:40] <jcastro> can people apply for project/repos?
[16:40] <greg-g> it'd be an interesting discussion to include them in the mw repo itself
[16:40] <greg-g> yep
[16:40] <jcastro> this is similar to what postgres has, we're doing the same with them
[16:40] <jcastro> greg-g: link me up to some instructions and we'll do it!
[16:44] <greg-g> jcastro: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/New_repositories
[16:45] <jcastro> awesome, thanks dude!
[16:46] <jcastro> greg-g: do you recommend requesting or should I bring it up on a list first?
[16:46] <jcastro> just in case they get all craig and be like "code dumpers!"
[16:46] <greg-g> :)
[16:47] <greg-g> a conversation on-list is never a bad idea, honestly
[16:47] <greg-g> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[16:47] <jcastro> ack, will do so, <3 thanks
[16:47] <greg-g> np
[16:48] <jcastro> out of curiosity, does mediawiki run on php7 yet?
[16:48] <cmaloney> Does anything?
[16:48] <cmaloney> How big is the change?
[16:49] <jcastro> I am debating asking aisrael to do a mediawiki performance benchmark between normal php, hhvm, and php7 for great justice
[16:49] <cmaloney> iirc it was only released last week Thursday
[16:49] <jrwren> that would be sweet!
[16:50] <cmaloney> also: I really, really hate MySQL's laxness
[16:51] <cmaloney> Searches with = are case insensitive
[16:52] <aisrael> jcastro: I wouldn't be opposed to it. I still do plenty of PHP stuff on the side that I could use that kind of testing.
[16:52] <aisrael> jcastro: any progress on finding/suckering someone in to write a php layer?
[16:53] <greg-g> jcastro: no re php7, see the gory details at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T118932
[16:54] <greg-g> (that's about min version)
[16:54] <greg-g> re php7: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/?statuses=open%28%29&projects=PHID-PROJ-uvzjhw46mbirlh2cho4z#R
[16:59] <jcastro> greg-g: that doesn't look as bad as I was expecting for a large project
[16:59] <jcastro> aisrael: yeah I think we need to not have an apache-php one before I impress anyone
[16:59] <jcastro> aisrael: the dude who started cacti is part of the AA PHP group
[16:59] <jcastro> it was pretty fun, I'm going to go regularly I think
[17:00] <aisrael> jcastro: Nice. How often do they meet, once a month?
[17:00] <jcastro> still deciding on that, sounds like every other month for now
[17:00] <jcastro> http://michigandevs.com/ has a slack channel for them
[17:00] <aisrael> I need to come over a little more regularly
[17:00] <jcastro> I idle in there
[17:00] <cmaloney> Speaking of meetings, MUG meeting tomorrow
[17:01] <jcastro> in #annarborphp
[17:01] <cmaloney> SSL and "Oh the Places UNIX'll go"
[17:01] <jcastro> everytime I see a slack link I actually think of you greg-g
[17:01] <aisrael> Oh good. I like slack more than telegram
[17:01] <greg-g> jcastro: I'm glad, I hope you think "he would hate it"
[17:01] <greg-g> :)
[17:01] <jcastro> I do
[17:01] <cmaloney> hah
[17:01] <cmaloney> That's what I figured.
[17:02] <greg-g> irssi4life
[17:02] <jcastro> when I saw the blog post going around "stop using slack for oss projects" I was like, aha! GREG probably wrote that
[17:02] <cmaloney> I remember seeing that on Identi.ca
[17:03] <jrwren> high 5 greg-g !
[17:03] <jcastro> irssi is weaksauce
[17:03] <jcastro> weechat 4 eva
[17:04] <cmaloney> Weechat fistbump
[17:06] <jcastro> It's sad that slack is so awesome
[17:06] <jcastro> and irc is not fun
[17:06] <cmaloney> IRc is fun
[17:06] <cmaloney> we just don't have emoji and vieo
[17:06] <cmaloney> video
[17:06] <jcastro> or push
[17:06] <jcastro> or persistance. :)
[17:06] <cmaloney> what's push?
[17:06] <cmaloney> Persistence is overrated
[17:06] <cmaloney> We're like Twitter
[17:06] <cmaloney> Ephemeral
[17:06] <cmaloney> fleeting
[17:06] <cmaloney> whoosh, there it goes
[17:07] <cmaloney> Oh, mobile push notifications?
[17:07] <cmaloney> Bah
[17:07] <cmaloney> sit in a ssh channel like a gentleman
[17:07] <cmaloney> ;)
[17:08] <cmaloney> Allow yourself the freedom to disconnect for a while
[17:08] <cmaloney> *om*
[17:08] <cmaloney> IRC: The zen way to communicate
[17:09] <cmaloney> Dammit, Mr. Rumbold from Are You Being Served passed away
[17:09] <cmaloney> There goes the reunion rumors.
[17:12] <jcastro> man guys, I got some ubiquiti gear because I am tired of crappy consumer wifi
[17:12] <jcastro> and it's glorious
[17:34] <cmaloney> heh
[17:35]  * The_Machine shivers
[17:35] <The_Machine> what flavor ubnt gear?
[17:35] <The_Machine> i use it all of the time
[17:35] <cmaloney> Go Enterprise or go home
[17:35]  * The_Machine isn't sure he would call unifi AP enterprise, but it's aiight
[17:36] <The_Machine> so cold in my house dammit
[17:53] <cmaloney> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3012278/microsoft-windows/microsoft-sets-stage-for-massive-windows-10-upgrade-strategy.html
[17:55] <jrwren> i'm about to block update.microsoft.com on my home network.
[17:56] <jrwren> apparently all that spy stuff people complain about in win10 got pushed as updates to win 8 and 7 too.
[17:56] <jrwren> so it doesn't matter if you didn't upgrade to 10. you are getting spied on just teh same.
[17:58] <cmaloney> Yeah, it's ridiculous
[18:12] <The_Machine> heh
[18:13] <The_Machine> you guys think it's actually identifiable information?
[18:13] <The_Machine> I think they're sending a lot of data
[18:13] <The_Machine> but not traceable in the scary sense of things
[18:13] <greg-g> what makes you think that?
[18:15] <jrwren> i don't care what it is. I demand the ability to turn it all off.
[18:15] <The_Machine> do you demand that ability with your phone as well?
[18:16] <jrwren> There has been no evidence that it is identifiable. My IP address is identifiable, so it is identifiable.
[18:16] <jrwren> Yes, I do demand it of my phone.
[19:01] <cmaloney> And regardless it's yet another breach of trust
[19:02] <jrwren> exactly.
[19:02] <cmaloney> It's basically saying "We understand you don't want Windows 10 for some reason but we don't care"
[19:03] <cmaloney> "Your preference is irrelevant"
[19:03] <cmaloney> And that's unacceptable
[19:03] <cmaloney> What pisses me off is folks think that's OK in the first place
[19:04] <cmaloney> I wouldn't be nearly as pissed if Microsoft said "we need to concentrate on Windows 10 instead of supporting Windows 7 so we want as many folks on Windows 10 as possible"
[19:05] <cmaloney> Renegotiate the agreement
[19:05] <cmaloney> allow me the choice to understand your position
[19:05] <cmaloney> telling me it's for my own good is when I check my fingers, wrists and wallet
[19:05] <The_Machine70x7> good points
[19:07] <cmaloney> And Microsoft is making their "Scroogled" campaign woefully ironic
[19:07] <cmaloney> Apple is demonstrating they care about privacy
[19:08] <cmaloney> Even though it's hurting their image as the "it just works" company
[19:08] <cmaloney> I have to give them credit
[19:09] <cmaloney> I wanted to believe in Nardelli's Microsoft. I think he can still do good things
[19:09] <cmaloney> but Windows 10 is really screwing with my belief.
[19:10] <jrwren> same here.
[19:10] <jrwren> i'll forgive them when the enable posix in all windows versions.
[19:10] <jrwren> them not doing so it stpuid and pointless.
[19:11] <cmaloney> I have a line about Posix in my presentation for tomorrow
[19:11] <cmaloney> something about "what the hell were they thinking"? :)
[19:11] <jrwren> :)
[19:11] <cmaloney> Good to know someone loves it
[19:12] <jrwren> well, not NT posix
[19:12] <jrwren> but the idea of std posix api has worked.
[19:12] <jrwren> varying linux distros, BSDs, other unixes, they all work with same source code largely because of posix.
[19:13] <cmaloney> Well, I blame NT Posix on Microsoft following the letter and not the spirit
[19:13] <jrwren> http://brianreiter.org/2010/08/24/the-sad-history-of-the-microsoft-posix-subsystem/
[19:13] <jrwren> i blame nt posix on them not shipping it.
[19:13] <jrwren> no would coudl ship software based onit because it was only in enterprise windows.
[19:13] <cmaloney> I thought NT was POSIX-compliant?
[19:13] <cmaloney> ah
[19:13] <cmaloney> Shows how much I paid attention
[19:14] <cmaloney> Though I think at this point it's almost like getting mad at them for no longer supporting CORBA
[19:16] <cmaloney> Honestly it's become a UNIX vs Windows world by my reckoning
[19:19] <cmaloney> Apparently I'm about one porch shy of going full-southern
[19:20] <jrwren> i just get angry because nothing works.
[19:20] <jrwren> win7 was the best env I had, but it was lacking so much... so much like actual unix tools.
[19:21] <jrwren> if msft would jsut ship win7 with posix enabled so I could build unix tools on top, without the cygwin stupid layer... it would be a nice OS IMO
[19:21] <cmaloney> heh, and say Dennis Ritchie was right?
[19:21] <cmaloney> Never
[19:22] <jrwren> they could claim best of both worlds.
[19:22] <cmaloney> I think Microsoft would sooner set themselves on fire
[19:22] <jrwren> their VMS roots fused with UNIX roots.
[19:22] <jrwren> stranger things have happened.
[19:22] <cmaloney> http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/DennisRitchie.gif
[19:22] <jrwren> lol