[00:00] the keyb layout differences always catch me out in a recovery situation where the live env defaults to US and I lose the pipe | [00:00] beside 1? ¬ ? i don't even know :D [00:00] ha, I don't even have that key [00:00] and the back-ticks ` get moved [00:00] makes for great sunglasses though, ¬_¬ [00:00] I love that UK keyboard still has $ [00:00] the almight dollar rules all [00:01] maybe it's AUD :) or NZD! [00:01] then it's be upside down, du [00:01] duh [00:01] it'd [00:01] wow, putting down the whiskey [00:02] :D [00:02] we also have the € [00:03] yea I have to google that and copy/paste to use it. I'm sure there's an ALT code but idk it [00:03] Alt-Gr+4 € [00:04] ¿? [00:10] Constable daftykins on the case [00:11] anyone trying to put XP anywhere needs a stern talking to for sure [00:11] that's simply unethical [00:12] It's fine! [00:12] it's an unintentional honeypot [00:12] nooooo [00:13] hmm apparently suggestions it's bed time are not enough to dissuade Mischief from trying to steal lap access [00:13] 'laptop' has to become 'lap-unless-cat-top' [00:14] how about my rack warmer right now? https://iam.tj/photos/19InchRackWarmer.jpg [00:14] If it has a floppydrive, i drop it. [00:14] :D [00:15] Is that the runaway? [00:15] No, this is Silver, the (usually) sensible one [00:16] right! it's sleep o'clock for me [00:16] catch you in the week folks :) o/ [00:16] :-) [00:16] I have to have special Husky filters in front of the 2 UPSs in the bottom of that cabinet, to stop it blocking up [00:16] night night [00:17] TJ- I have a persian cat. she thinks my HTPC is her bed. 0_0 [00:17] nicomachus: oh cripes! [00:17] bet that keeps her toastie [00:18] unfortunately. [01:57] TJ-: but it's a new thing to learn and I'm still getting caught up on everything else [01:57] :( [01:58] nicomachus: welcome to the wonderful world of IT :D [01:58] lol [01:58] I could spend 150% of my time on keeping up... and still not keep up with everything :D [02:15] it's the speed of the internet, isn't it something like x petabites a day or something... [02:15] (x is an interger) [04:29] "I like Windows 10, it is VERY, VERY light. I have been using Windows 10 for about 3 months and I can say that it is by far lighter than Linux Mint, It uses far less resources than Linux Mint." [04:29] "Even though Linux Mint is way more resource intense than Windows 10, it has a nice feel." [04:29] What do you make of this? [04:29] it's completely, utterly false. [04:29] sounds anecotal [04:30] It's anecdotal. It's real-world experience. [04:30] there's an objective way to find out how much RAM is being used on each machine [04:31] It's not just about ram. It's about how an OS feels in actual use. [04:31] which is subjective [04:31] He says "VERY, VERY light" and that he subjectively feels Mint is "way more resoruce intensive." [04:31] i've used both and both feel equal to me, i think it depends on the hardware in use [04:32] I have to admit Windows these days is very good in my opinion. [04:32] lol [04:33] Why is that funny? [04:33] though i've run both on an overclocked i7 with a silly amount of ram so i don't really have a barometer [04:33] SeriouslyLaugh: That's why. [04:33] yeah [04:33] You can't tell which is lighter if your hardware is way overpowered. [04:33] depends on the hardware [04:33] You have to use minimal specs to notice the reality. [04:34] yep [04:34] With an i7 and 8 GB of ram unless you have hardware issues with a certain distro you're going to find everything equally snappy. [04:34] Tarminquay: I laugh the amount of user-control over Windows has *declined* exponentially with every release, and now with w10 it declines with every *update*. [04:34] I laugh because** [04:34] and *I* control my OS, not Micro$oft [04:34] nicomachus: The Windows user just wants to use the OS and get his/her work done. [04:34] They don't want user control. [04:35] It's like a refrigerator. You don't get much control. You get to choose how cold you want it. [04:35] windows 10 has a decent UI -- there's room for improvement but overall it's totally usable [04:35] and when Windows can change the user's work without permission, that's counter-productive. [04:35] But you're an enthusiast. You want your computer to be a hobby. [04:35] That's different. [04:36] If you considerr it, $150 is a bargain for the average user for his/her Windows 10 experience. [04:37] Depends how important your time is to you as well. I've seen users of every distro having serious problems at one point or another. Troubleshooting and loss of productivity really adds up. [04:37] $150 plus the cost of all your data. [04:38] this was the latest nail in the coffin: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-11/24/windows-10-update-removing-software [04:38] I read that. It's overblown. [04:39] Sites like Wired need things to write about so they take everything they can and make it into as big a deal as they can. [04:39] sure it's overblown, but the problem is still there. [04:39] ##windows is that-a-way ---> [04:40] woah why am i not in that channel. i like windows. :x [04:40] I use both Windows and Mint. But there's no doubt Windows is the better OS for most users. [04:40] there's plenty of doubt. [04:41] I take it you haven't used a Surface Pro. [04:43] My dad has one, I use it occasionally when I go visit. [04:43] it's not a bad device, hardware wise. [04:44] It's an incredible device. [04:44] idk about incredible. [04:44] Brilliant touch capabilities, rock solid, smooth as butter OS. [04:45] do you work for M$ or something? [04:46] I just wish the Linux commnity could finally band together and genuinely surpass Microsoft and Apple. [04:47] surpass in what way? [04:47] the Linux community has entirely different priorities than Microsoft and Apple have. [04:47] Look at the Caonical founder. He's worth about $500 million, right? The Linux community needs to be more focused instead of working on so many different projects branching out in so many different directions. [04:47] Canonical [04:48] that's the entire point of the community.... [04:48] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth [04:48] That was a very rapid fortune. $500 million in how many years? [04:48] why does that matter? [04:49] why is that at all relevant? [04:49] Because coders need money to survive, and to produce an excellent product you need many talented coders focused on a small number of things. [04:50] I also find it ironic that your go-to resource was a community driven project. lol [04:50] and a non-profit at that. [04:51] I saw the donations being given to the Ubuntu-MATE leader. People were donating $2.50 each. [04:51] That's pretty pathetic. [04:52] and you're using Firefox, another community-driven open-source non-profit project. [04:52] I do like what Zorin OS is doing. You pay $10 for Zorin Ultimate. That's very cheap but over a good userbase gets some much needed cash into the pockets of the developers. [04:52] take your bait elsewhere. [04:52] he asked the same question in ##windows nicomachus [04:52] very passionate :) [04:53] he clearly read too much Ayn Rand in junior high [04:53] or took Bill Gates' Letter to Hobbyists too seriously. [04:54] I began using Linux back when Windows was at NT4. Back then I considered Windows the superior OS. Back then there were tons of distros dispersing valauble talent in all directions. [04:55] Not much has changed. If I'm honest, Windows has a bigger lead today than it had then. [04:56] The best thing to happen to Linux in recent times was Ubuntu. [04:58] Just my two cents. Don't take it personally. Spurred by that one man saying how light W10 is compared to Mint. [05:10] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883218036 [05:10] What do you think about this hardware? [05:52] Intel Core i3-4020Y (dual core, 1.5 GHz) vs Intel N3150 quad-core 1.6GHz [05:52] Are these roughly equivalent? [05:53] Tarminquay not really [05:53] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-4020Y+%40+1.50GHz [05:53] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+N3150+%40+1.60GHz [05:53] How did you find those pages so fast? [05:54] google? [05:54] But the exact GHz too. [05:55] So the i3 is definitely significantly superior? [05:55] if you google i3-4020Y or Intel N3150 you'll get the passmark scores [05:56] You think you'd notice the i3 browsing around the web with a few tabs open? [05:56] yeah the dual core 1.5 GHz technically outperforms the quad core 1.6 GHz [05:57] Technically... [05:57] that's not necessarily noticeable in light usage scenarios. [05:58] eh it probably depends on the rest of the hardware and the content of the websites [07:25] "History is a selective interpretation of events designed to justify those in power". [07:27] Who makes good-priced systems with everything but the OS? [07:27] That's what I want - a good value where I just install the OS. [07:27] Oops. [07:27] wrong chan. [08:10] Tarminquay: server or desktop? (you will not be able to find a laptop without an os :( ) [08:11] It's being used a home workstation with light power requirements. [08:11] as a* [08:12] Interesting. How did Microsoft get all the manufacturers to sell products with their OS pre-installed? If not for that Linux could have really taken off [08:12] $20 for a Linux distro on a USB stick would appeal to many if the majority of systems came without Windows. === MooDoo__ is now known as MooDoo [08:36] Tarminquay: it's been tried, windows did everything that they could possibly do to kill it [08:38] though you should checkout http://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/ [08:39] Tarminquay: * http://minifree.org/ [08:39] I don't need/want a laptop. I want a desktop. [08:39] Oh, that's interesting. [12:27] afternoon team o/ [13:09] Hey folks [13:10] heya \o [13:12] ahh, coffee! [13:12] :D just finished mine [13:16] just got up a few mins ago [13:18] i slept in a fair bit this morning, didn't have any specific plans of tasks to perform :) [13:21] dark, dreary, wet weather here ... a good day to sleep in [13:25] good afternoon mates [13:26] hallo thar o/ [13:26] we're all nursing our coffees indoors :> [13:27] oke, calm down guys , lotus is back [13:28] hey lotuspsychje, OerHeks [13:28] lol [13:28] hey daftykins, OerHeks and BluesKaj [13:28] ^_^ [13:29] shouldnt you guys be outside xmass shopping? [13:29] !life [13:29] life is something very few people know about in this channel - and anyway, it's probably offtopic, perhaps you want to try #ubuntu-offtopic [13:29] burn the dead trees ! [13:30] lol [13:30] finished Christmas shopping... mostly online [13:30] ah 2 million euro's in belgium for online xmass shopping [13:31] no pusshing and pulling in the stores anymore :p [13:32] never really did gifts growing up [13:33] how about food daftykins [13:33] filled turkey [13:36] * lotuspsychje will put a xenial alpha under the xmass tree 31 dec :p [13:38] my folks will do something yeah, so i'll head over there [13:38] cool [13:42] a couple of my kids are coming home for Christmas, the other 2 are having it with their inlaws... they alternate [13:43] BluesKaj: nice one [13:43] oh dear, xp problem :-D [13:43] lolz [13:43] not an xp problem, just a human error, using xp [13:43] yeah, lotuspsychje I'm looking forward to it :-) [13:43] OerHeks: there are millions of boxes still running xp [13:43] OerHeks: +1 :D [13:44] yeah but most are in extended contracts, home users are not [13:44] thus they should be denied help, imo [13:44] OerHeks: plus, its wrong to think other windowses are not vunrable as hell.. [13:44] my bank still runs W2000 [13:44] lollll BluesKaj [13:44] it worries me [13:45] 'please hack me!!' [13:45] lotuspsychje, anyway , the last time I checked they did , maybe they've upgraded since [13:46] BluesKaj: to windows 2000 service pack3 lol [13:46] heh [13:47] It's quite a large bank , they can afford lots of security [13:47] Toronto Dominion [13:48] dear lord [13:49] and probably running vnc, so the owner can see whats happening from home [13:53] brb booting into xenial [14:06] wouldn't it be great if there were a text based installer so on these systems that have graphics issues, you could boot with 'text' appended, then just run a textmode installer instead? [14:07] i feel like someone's going to tell me that's already possible... :D [14:10] like debian used to do [14:10] daftykins: good idea [14:10] or ubuntu minimal [14:11] i don't think i've ever seen that [14:11] never tried minimal lotus|xenial? [14:11] no [14:11] i did alternate iso's in the past sometimes [14:11] iirc it's text based [14:12] oh do you mean mini.iso BluesKaj ? [14:12] yep [14:12] this guy is pointing out he wants an EFI install, which mini.iso can't provide, is the problem [14:12] tried it a while back, maybe 5 yrs ago [14:12] daftykins: 15.10? [14:13] not sure [14:13] problem is 15.04 and 15.10 got many black screen issues for users [14:13] even before plymouth [14:13] lots of new crappy hardware [14:14] !info plymouth [14:14] plymouth (source: plymouth): graphical boot animation and logger - main package. In component main, is standard. Version 0.9.0-0ubuntu9 (vivid), package size 108 kB, installed size 537 kB [14:14] !info plymouth xenial [14:14] plymouth (source: plymouth): boot animation, logger and I/O multiplexer. In component main, is standard. Version 0.9.2-3ubuntu5 (xenial), package size 112 kB, installed size 451 kB [14:14] aha [14:14] just updated xenial, lemme reboot real quick if they changed that already :p [14:14] brb [14:22] nothing noticable [14:22] maybe just a time change [14:25] R00TB0X systemd[1]: Starting Tell Plymouth To Write Out Runtime Data... [14:26] o0 [14:26] no other plymouth changes that i can notice [14:31] daftykins: would be nice idea: install ubuntu GUI/install ubuntu text base/try live [14:32] ja :D [14:32] lol [14:33] bbiab [14:34] lotus|xenial: that idiot user can't boot right now, quite how server doesn't boot either is a mystery [14:35] lol [14:54] daftykins: i had several other users on that same issue like him with gtx 920m [15:00] EriC^^: alive mate? [15:03] hey [15:03] yeah what's up? [15:04] EriC^^: i had several users on gtx 920m that cant boot into live or install, several ubuntu versions [15:04] EriC^^: could it be that trying to dualboot, prevent such thing? [15:05] you mean they get a black screen? [15:05] EriC^^: im starting to think its not about the card, but uefi messing [15:05] EriC^^: yeah [15:05] EriC^^: check this out: http://sprunge.us/ENeI [15:06] EriC^^: doesnt make sense ubuntu would block intel/nivida right? [15:06] yeah [15:07] EriC^^: any ideas on this? [15:08] *shrug* [15:08] lol [15:08] did he try pressing install ubuntu after he booted the live usb? [15:08] there's an icon on the desktop for it.. [15:08] EriC^^: he doesnt reach that far [15:08] EriC^^: try live==>black screen [15:08] he said the liveusb is fine [15:09] "The liveusb is fine, I can boot to grub (UEFI computer), still, when I try to boot to the install menu, I get a black screen (nothing, not even a blinking cursor)." [15:09] oh [15:09] EriC^^: no he said afterwards he cant get into live neither [15:09] he means ..nevermind [15:10] did he try disabling secureboot? [15:10] yep just told fastboot and secureboot is off [15:10] it's pretty odd, but some guy reported once after disabling secureboot he wasn't getting a blinking cursor after grub [15:11] i guess it's a graphics issue or the live usb isn't right [15:11] did he try removing quiet splash and putting verbose etc. ? [15:11] it might say what's going on.. [15:11] EriC^^: ive asked to try a lubuntu, maybe he can get in that way [15:12] ah good idea EriC^^ [15:13] wb BluesKaj [15:13] lotus|xenial: did you watch the movie bitcoin - the end of money? [15:14] i saw a picture in the movies site [15:14] EriC^^: ah not yet, but saw its released [15:15] EriC^^: finland is voting a lwa right now every citizen 800$ for free! [15:15] law [15:15] nice [15:15] basic income [15:15] will be the future [15:15] hey nicomachus ! [15:15] thanks lotus|xenial [15:17] EriC^^: if you like docu's liek that try the 'panopticon' docu [15:18] what's that about? [15:18] privacy, big brother [15:18] guaranteed annual income, supposed to save millions by ridding the govt of the welfare/social assistance bureaucracy [15:18] ah i see [15:18] and bit hacking [15:19] BluesKaj: lets hope it comes up worldwide [15:19] what if i have dual citizenship :D [15:19] lol [15:19] clone yourself [15:20] 2x 800$ and a little dealing by night :p [15:21] :p [15:21] OerHeks could buy alot of dog food with 800$ [15:21] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33977636 [15:21] in netherlands their experimenting with basic income aswell [15:23] my daughter has Canadian-Finnish dual citizenship ...wonder if she's eligable [15:24] * BluesKaj was born in Finland [15:24] cool [15:25] err elegible [15:26] never get that word correct...well I used to be a good speller [15:26] :p [15:27] it doesn't seem to follow the rule of "able" [15:27] bbl fast coffee [16:08] TJ-: afternoonings o/ [16:09] any ideas on removing BIOS passwords from old thinkpads? ;) [16:09] guy i know in another channel bought one but the seller doesn't know what it is [16:09] remove the battery and bios battery, etc, press power should wipe it? [16:10] apparently no go on that, he said he left it running over night [16:10] err left switched off with the CMOS battery out i mean [16:12] maybe !BIOS? [16:12] no factoid is going to help with removing a password XD [16:12] heh that's the name of the software, not a factoid. :) [16:13] what thinkpad exactly? [16:13] T430 [16:13] I used it on Windows once, a long time ago. can't find it now, actually [16:14] ah he mentioned !bios , but it only dumps the BIOS and doesn't do anything with the NVRAM apparently o0 [16:16] is actionparsnip still among the living? [16:17] http://www.ja.axxs.net/t430.htm [16:17] * TJ- waves belatedly [16:18] daftykins: usually it requires programming the EEPROM [16:19] hrmm [16:19] I found something that mentions using a jumper to short-circuit the 2 password pads... but that sounds risky. [16:19] :D [16:21] shortcut 3 legs .. [16:21] daftykins: as nicomachus says, if the PC has jumpers for resetting the EEPROM, use those. [16:22] nope, that http://www.ja.axxs.net/t430.htm shows you have to do it with pinns and paperclips :-D [16:23] \o/ [16:23] he wastes so much time with this old gear [16:23] well it's only shorting the I2C bus, so do it [16:24] "if any device holds the SDA or SCL line low it prevents the master from sending START or STOP commands to reset the bus. Thus it is common for designs to include a reset signal that provides an external method of resetting the bus devices." [16:27] :D [16:28] SCL is the Clock SDA is Data [16:56] thanks all! will have to see if he has any success [17:15] I've just had a strange experience with CUPS on 15.10 - couldn't print due to ownership of some files under /usr/share/cups/filters/ having changed from UID 0 to my user UID. Worked fine 3 days ago; very weird. [17:17] :S [17:17] printing knows no bounds to stopping being evil :D [17:19] I wonder if it's some ununusal side effect of my regular user being 'root' - although I struggle to think where the package manager would make such a basic error, not seen it elsewhere [17:20] I'll have to check for recent CUPS updates, maybe a postinst script is responsible [17:20] TJ-: just had a pretty large CUPS update in xenial this morning [17:21] right, same here yesterday cups-filters-core-drivers:amd64 (1.0.76-1, 1.0.76-1ubuntu0.1) [17:22] I'll have to examine that; looks like something is incorrectly using username 'root' rather than UID 0 during the file installation. [17:22] on my systems root == 1000 [17:35] Bassem needs google... [17:36] indeed :/ [17:36] guy can't think for himself [17:36] there we go xenial box up to date again [17:44] http://news.softpedia.com/news/mycroft-is-now-an-official-ubuntu-iot-partner-497596.shtml [17:45] mycroft go get food from the kitchen to EriC^^ [17:45] a cookie? [17:46] :> [17:46] :p [17:46] EriC^^ needs a pack of cookies just to wake up! [17:46] he needs a robot to get him to irc first [17:48] star wars bb 8 [17:49] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB-8_%28Star_Wars%29 [17:49] looks a cool one MonkeyDust [17:50] seen the new starwars yet? [17:50] it's not out yes [17:50] yet* [17:50] ah [17:50] tomorrow is the release [17:50] im not such a fan myself [17:50] rather like LOTR [17:50] i'm first watching the other six [17:50] the script leaked. :/ [17:50] MonkeyDust: at home? [17:50] i'm more into star trek [17:50] yes [17:51] MonkeyDust: would be cool in theaters, the whole marathon :p [17:51] that would take sooooooo long though. I couldn't sit in a theater that long [17:51] nicomachus: so wont take long before an rip reaches underground :p [17:52] lotuspsychje: well the decryption codes haven't even been released to the theaters yet, so it'll still be a bit. :) [17:52] nicomachus: did you see blackhat? [17:53] xenial up to date here, too [17:53] MonkeyDust: wich flavor? [17:53] lubuntu [17:53] gotta reboot... [17:54] MonkeyDust: did you notice something on plymouth? [17:54] MonkeyDust: ive read an rticle they gonna rechange plymouth for fast ssd drives, not seeing the ubuntu logo [17:55] lotuspsychje old frankenstein laptop here [17:55] lol [17:55] MonkeyDust: as long as it works! it must run [17:56] im also a fan of not throwing away working hardware [17:56] 2nd life ubuntu [17:57] daftykins: lotuspsychje :D [17:57] lol [17:58] did you guys play fallout4 by any chance? [17:58] i saw a trailer, it's for ps4 though [17:58] thats with that car? [17:58] not coming out for ps3 [17:58] nah, looked just like 3 to me really, not enough change [17:58] ah i see [18:00] makes me think about stalker that game [18:00] lotuspsychje: yea I've seen blackhat... why? [18:00] nicomachus: did you like it [18:01] ah man so many ripped opera CDs [18:01]