[00:49] <daftykins> directhex: naaaaah s'all good :>
[01:56] <daftykins> hi folks!
[01:58] <penguin42> hey daftykins
[01:59] <daftykins> happy festivities sir o/
[01:59] <penguin42> and to you sir
[01:59] <daftykins> ^_^ ty
[02:00] <daftykins> aaah back in the house after a couple of pubs with a Carl Sagan video on the TV after being linked by a friend
[02:01] <penguin42> the original cosmos series?
[02:01] <zmoylan-1i> i have that on dvd, loved it when it was first broadcast
[02:02] <zmoylan-1i> especially in later episode where he's talking about how to discover planets around distant stars when it hadn't been done yet
[02:03] <daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfm0GCvsIVA
[02:03] <daftykins> this one
[02:06] <penguin42> oh it's not actual a Sagan one
[02:09] <daftykins> is it not?
[02:10] <daftykins> i should probably have read the info, but i got linked by my phone so i was just watching via the TV
[02:13] <daftykins> haha people coming into channels asking for help on Christmas Day, madness!
[02:14] <daftykins> zmoylan-1i: happy festivities to you o/
[02:14] <penguin42> well they probably just unwrapped their new toy, plugged the boot disk in and ....
[02:14] <zmoylan-1i> madness? this is santas day!! :-)
[02:15] <zmoylan-1i> and happy crimbo to all o/
[02:15] <daftykins> :>
[02:27] <daftykins> https://imgur.com/gallery/gQ7vlYk
[02:28] <daftykins> "a drone was used to find this hidden glacial pool in the himalayas"
[03:27] <mapps> great
[03:27] <mapps> another year done
[03:27] <daftykins> gatsby, the?
[03:27] <daftykins> not yet!
[03:28] <daftykins> there's like a week!
[03:28] <mapps> just lost 800 at the casino
[03:28] <mapps> wish it hadnt happened
[03:29] <daftykins> oof, only way to win is not to play
[03:29] <mapps> sure
[03:30] <mapps> but i smoke..i drink,,,,i gambble
[03:30] <mapps> whats a working man meant to do
[03:32] <daftykins> workin' 9 to 5 ~
[03:34] <mapps> its hard
[12:45]  * penguin42 bets it got close to snow at some point; it was 2c according to the panel at about 3:30am
[12:47] <zmoylan-pi> isn't that too cold for snow and more into hail territory?
[12:47] <penguin42> not sure; but it means it's in the right ballpark
[12:48]  * zmoylan-pi lives near sea so it has to be just right for temp, salt air, moisture so we almost never see snow
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> lashing rain earlier so even if it did snow it wouldn't stick
[12:57] <zleap> zmoylan-pi: same here,  we get snow higher up near me,  and on cars or see it on cars that have come down towards sea level from higher ground
[16:36] <sebsebseb> hi
[16:36] <penguin42> hey
[16:36] <sebsebseb> penguin42: hi
[16:37] <sebsebseb> penguin42: a bit of a rubbish Christams really, how's yours?
[16:37] <Myrtti> I got lots of nice things, weather is a bit pants but where isn't it this year?
[16:38] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Well, I don't do it, so no problem; but I have discount chocolate panettone and I've been fitting cheap SSDs, so not bad
[16:41] <sebsebseb> penguin42: oh yeah I think you  might have told me before actsaully that you don't do Christmas, or that was somenone else
[16:41] <sebsebseb> what was that about chooclate?
[16:41] <sebsebseb> and SSD's into what?
[16:41] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: what did you get?
[16:41] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Chocolate panettone; it's an Italian cake/bread - Netto are selling them cheap
[16:41] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: and uhmm Australlia and New Zealand will be nice at this tijme of year I guess usaully, but not aorund here sure
[16:42] <sebsebseb> penguin42: oh right sounds ok :)
[16:42] <penguin42> sebsebseb: and as for SSDs, I got a couple of the discount 120GB Sandisk bottom of the range; one in this old Core2 that I use for irc, and another in my dads machine
[16:42] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[16:52] <Myrtti> sebsebseb: nice compression socks, chocolate, cosmetics, sewing machine bits, Ticket to Ride UK extension, and in a parcel from Finland, aromated redbush teas, Moomin pillowcases, Finnish toothpaste, and a Moomin detangling hairbrush
[16:53] <penguin42> oooh chocolate
[16:54] <Myrtti> talking of compression socks my favourite brand has now opened their webshop to customers from EU since I drove enough customers to their shop before Christmas
[16:57] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: ok you must have a lot of non direct family relatives then or something
[16:58] <sebsebseb> penguin42: not had much chooclate this CHristams, there is some though
[16:58] <Myrtti> or they're just great
[16:58] <sebsebseb>  ,but I am older now anyway so
[16:58] <Myrtti> (the socks)
[16:59] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: Finnish toothpaste hmm,  I been to Finland twice since finnish second cousins, but I woudn't have thought there's some sort of coplety diffneregt toothpaste there?
[16:59] <sebsebseb> completely different above
[17:01] <Myrtti> sebsebseb: lemon-mint xylitol-fluoride toothpaste 98% natural ingredients
[17:01] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: it has flouride in it though?
[17:01] <Myrtti> yup
[17:02] <sebsebseb> apparantly flouride actually may not be so good for us in toothpate and such, but well most toothpastes have it so
[17:02] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: yeah I was given a big toothpaste by someone to for Christmas heh, but not an exiteing one
[17:02] <sebsebseb> a flouride toothpaste to yes
[17:03] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: who sent you all those gifts :d
[17:04] <sebsebseb> you got a big family over in Finland etc?
[17:04] <Myrtti> sebsebseb: well my whole family, but the Finnish parcel wasn't that big
[17:04] <Myrtti> or expensive
[17:05] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[17:06]  * sebsebseb didn't really get anything that great this year, but that's what happens with direct family
[17:06] <Myrtti> it was the socks I was most looking forward to
[17:06] <sebsebseb> always like that
[17:06] <sebsebseb> from what I can rememdber
[17:07] <penguin42> Myrtti: What's so special about the socks?
[17:08]  * sebsebseb hopes it's still in the kitchen, there's this really nice chocolate thing I think still there :d,  time to have some of that before soemone else gets there hands on it :d if it's still there
[17:08] <sebsebseb> I like forgot about that, then remembered a little while ago heh
[17:09] <penguin42> what type of thing?
[17:09] <Myrtti> penguin42: 20 mmHg compression at the ankle and 15 mm Hg near the knee, and they look awesome enough to be worn daily should you so wish (and I do)
[17:09] <sebsebseb> penguin42: it's SWedish actsually
[17:09] <sebsebseb> penguin42: can buy them in Ikea
[17:09] <sebsebseb> tend to have them at Christmas
[17:09] <sebsebseb> kind of thing you woudn't want to eat to much of at once as well of, or you'll probably feel a bit sick really
[17:09] <Myrtti> http://nabeesocks.com/
[17:09] <penguin42> Myrtti: Any particular reason for them?
[17:10] <Myrtti> penguin42: I was unfortunate enough to inherit higher risk for VTE/DVT from both my parents
[17:10] <sebsebseb> penguin42: it's like a tradinal Swedish thing to have at Christmas
[17:11] <sebsebseb> altough could have at other times of the year to of course
[17:11] <penguin42> Myrtti: Ah, well, we're all unfortunate enough to inherit something
[17:11] <sebsebseb> can either buy in shops that sell them, or make own,  making own is good too done that as a kid :d
[17:11] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Sounds good
[17:11] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yes chocolate balls :d
[17:11] <sebsebseb> Myrtti: you got those in Finland to?
[17:12] <Myrtti> penguin42: general population has the risk of 0.001, I've got 80 fold to that even without being fat and other stuff I've got.
[17:12] <penguin42> Myrtti: Nod
[17:14] <sebsebseb> 2016 the year of desktop Linux :D heh heh or not
[17:14] <penguin42> Myrtti: Does the compression stuff solve most of it or do you have to take thinners as well and get regular tests etc?
[17:14] <sebsebseb> 2016 the year of the Ubuntu Phone becoming much more popular yeah maybe
[17:15] <sebsebseb> less than a week to go
[17:33] <Myrtti> penguin42: I need injections for special occasions
[17:34] <Myrtti> but as I've not actually been diagnosed with an thrombosis, I'm not being treated as a patient
[17:43] <penguin42> nod
[17:56] <daftykins> merry christmas folks o/
[17:56] <penguin42> hey daftykins
[18:03] <daftykins> are we all heavily stuffed with food? :>
[19:44] <daftykins> merry christmas popey sir o/
[19:49] <popey> Happy Christmas daftykins !
[19:49] <daftykins> hope you're having a good day ^_^
[19:59] <popey> i was until youtube terminated an account
[19:59] <daftykins> D:
[19:59] <daftykins> that's mean
[20:00] <penguin42> popey: Yeh that's messy; I'm not sure how you can do anything useful with that - other than going up to google london offices with a tray of mince pies
[20:00] <popey> hah
[20:00] <popey> there is a contact form used for disabled accounts
[20:00] <popey> filled it in, am expecting nothing
[20:01] <penguin42> popey: Is it one of multiple youtube accounts you have - e.g. a work/personal/blog specific one?
[20:01] <daftykins> something been canned on grounds of copyright infringement or some other jazz, or no reason given?
[20:01] <popey> it's completely separate from everything, a different gmail account
[20:02] <popey> "The YouTube community flagged one or more of your videos as inappropriate. After reviewing the content, we’ve determined that the videos violate our Community Guidelines. As a result, we removed the following videos from YouTube"
[20:02] <popey> 30 mins after they were active
[20:02] <penguin42> popey: Hmm yes, I was going to suggest if they were part of a company account then you've probably got a company interface for google company accounts
[20:03] <popey> yeah, sadly not
[20:03] <penguin42> still, it might be worth trying the contact if you don't get anywhere
[20:03] <popey> yeah, I'll ask our internal IS people, good suggestion
[20:03] <popey> not sure they will want to, potentially abusing that relationship
[20:04] <penguin42> yeh
[20:08] <penguin42> popey: It might be worth asking how you're supposed to do things for that type of project; because there are people who get verified-user status and the like, and since it's associated with the firm there might be something that's possible
[20:14] <daftykins> wow my mums just seen something from a friend that some ferrero rocher were filled with moth larvae O_O
[20:14] <daftykins> customer services say it's quite common
[20:14] <penguin42> weird
[20:14] <penguin42> something to do with the nut?
[20:15] <daftykins> not sure
[20:16] <daftykins> fedora server coming with a web admin out of the box is odd to me - https://www.dropbox.com/s/vh6df33rr0rd3rt/fedora.png?dl=0
[20:16] <penguin42> http://www.snopes.com/ferrero-rocher-chocolates-maggots-video/
[20:16] <penguin42> (partially true!)
[20:16] <penguin42> daftykins: Ah the cockpit stuff?
[20:18] <daftykins> hmm guess the old girl is just reading old rubbish someones reposting then!
[20:18] <daftykins> penguin42: not a clue on it yet, only just installed for fun
[20:18] <daftykins> we had someone come in moaning that ubuntu doesn't use HTTPS on the download page
[20:19] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, that thing is called cockpit; it uses the same login path as any session so is supposed to be like having ssh or the like open; but yeh I find it a little odd
[20:19] <daftykins> i thought i'd check out the download page of other distros, sure enough the page for fedora is far nicer, showing verification methods as a link right there whilst it's downloading too
[20:19] <penguin42> daftykins: http://cockpit-project.org/
[20:20] <daftykins> ty sir
[20:21] <daftykins> mmm asking for trouble imo
[20:23] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh
[20:28] <daftykins> feel so out of my depth on a distro i don't know XD
[20:30] <penguin42> it's good to compare
[20:31] <daftykins> mmm
[20:33] <popey> i installed fedora, debian, arch (antergos) and opensuse leap a week or so ago
[20:33] <popey> quite a difference in all the installers
[20:33] <popey> took a while to get used to the OK/CANCEL buttons on fedora one being way up the top of the screen
[20:33] <popey> opensuse installer took an a g e to get going
[20:34] <popey> antergos installer refuses to start until it does an OTA update
[20:34] <popey> and debian was well.. debian :)
[20:34] <penguin42> what's antergos?
[20:34] <daftykins> popey: yeah i kept trying to find where to advance XD top left seems totally illogical
[20:34] <daftykins> LVM and XFS defaults too, quirky
[20:34] <popey> antergos is arch with a nice installer
[20:35] <popey> opensuse defaults to btrfs :)
[20:35] <popey> dialling the quirky to max :)
[20:35] <penguin42> popey: Ah, interesting - some distros have this weird 'real men don't need installers' thing - which while true is annoying after your first 20 years or so installing Linux
[20:35] <popey> yes, arch has that
[20:35] <popey> they have a wiki
[20:36] <penguin42> their wiki is excellent
[20:36] <popey> arch users often look down on antergos and other "arch with an installer" distros
[20:36] <daftykins> i call them all ricers and imo quite rightly so
[20:36] <daftykins> arch is like the new gentoo in that regard
[20:36] <popey> yeah
[20:36] <popey> http://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/ of course...
[20:37] <popey> (made by an ubuntu user [at the time] who now works for canonical)
[20:37] <penguin42> arch has an interesting thing that they do push towards the latest way of doing anything; which is certainly interesting
[20:37] <daftykins> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1529280
[20:37] <daftykins> here's the one from earlier
[20:38] <popey> i don't think that will be fixed
[20:38] <popey> given we have many mirrors which aren't https
[20:39] <penguin42> popey: But you should have it for getting to the list of mirrors and the ones that have the sums/keys
[20:39] <directhex> i'd like apt transport https installed by default
[20:39] <popey> we do
[20:39] <popey> that would be neat, unlikely to be fixed for 16.04
[20:39] <popey> actually, can't be
[20:39] <popey> because again, the mirrors
[20:39] <daftykins> i think the page you see when the download starts should have links for how to hash and so on though
[20:40] <daftykins> like fedora has
[20:40] <popey> Ubuntu target market is somewhat different
[20:41] <popey> I'd argue many of them don't know/care about that
[20:41] <popey> useful as it is
[20:41] <penguin42> popey: but not being able to find it easily is very odd
[20:41] <popey> first hit on google :)
[20:41] <popey> or was, last time I searched
[20:41] <penguin42> and the whole path to the download isn't https
[20:41] <daftykins> i see your point, but i don't think there's harm in a verify link being there (even for server, with arguably folk would know what they're doing with)
[20:42] <penguin42> popey: If you got to the download via https you could almost make the argument; but you really don't know what you're getting
[20:42] <daftykins> s/with/which/
[20:42] <popey> yeah, the whole process needs reviewing
[20:42] <popey> vast majority of iso downloads come from mirrors and cdn AIUI
[20:42] <daftykins> i might add my suggestion and see if it goes anywhere, i don't know how bugs work though to know if the right people are going to see it as-is
[20:43] <popey> nobody will see that bug
[20:43] <penguin42> there's a bug target for website stuff isn't there that it should be changed to?
[20:43] <popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content is where it should be filed
[20:44]  * popey adds a task to the bug 
[20:44] <popey> remind me when we get back to work after xmas and I'll speak to the web team about it
[20:45] <popey> get some feedback from them at least.
[20:45] <daftykins> ty sir - i did consider that guy a bit of a tinfoiler but it also doesn't seem that big a deal to look into, at least
[20:46] <penguin42> the other odd thing I find is that it doesnt' tend to actually giveme my nearest/fastest mirror
[20:46] <daftykins> yeah
[20:46] <penguin42> for me it always ends up as gb.archive.ubuntu.com  when bytemark is miles faster for me
[20:47] <daftykins> oh package mirror
[20:47] <daftykins> mmm, i bet a lot aren't even really anywhere else
[20:47] <popey> i tend to use de.archive.ubuntu.com
[20:47] <popey> I find that faster than most UK mirrors
[20:47] <penguin42> haha really?
[20:48] <popey> yeah
[20:48] <popey> the gb one is the central one for countries that don't have a mirror
[20:48] <popey> so it gets overloaded
[20:48] <penguin42> yeh
[20:48] <penguin42> popey: mirror.bytemark.co.uk normally saturates my cable
[20:48] <popey> e.g. USA doesn't have a us mirror, so us.a.u.c points to a.u.c which some of the gb.a.u.c pool point at
[20:48] <popey> nice!
[20:49] <popey> might try that then
[20:49] <penguin42> and the bytemark guys are nice people
[20:49] <popey> true :)
[20:49] <penguin42> it's only ~12ms ping time for me from my cable
[20:51] <daftykins> do they get updates quickly too?
[20:52] <popey> directhex, have valve said anything about steam?
[20:52] <directhex> no
[20:52] <directhex> but it's ON FIRE RUN AWAAAAY right now, for reals
[20:52] <daftykins> wussat? or is it secret (:
[20:53] <popey> I'm seeing carrotunicorn17's account at https://store.steampowered.com/account/
[20:53] <popey> so, https not so useful after all if the backend is busted completely
[20:53] <penguin42> popey: I see mention of https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/3y7le9/im_logged_in_as_someone_random_on_steam/
[20:55] <popey> i see mine now directhex
[20:56] <popey> bah, now someone elses
[20:56] <penguin42> they're saying not to use the store at the moment
[20:57] <daftykins> messy
[20:59] <daftykins> feeling very justified in never allowing Steam to store a payment method :)
[21:01] <popey> yeah, i dont store mine in steam either
[21:01] <popey> but other places have it...
[21:05] <penguin42> shrug that's what cc is for, I'm sure steam is about to have an interesting conversation with their merchant
[21:07] <daftykins> well i've only ever used debit cards
[21:08] <penguin42> debitcard on the internet?! are you mad?!
[21:08] <daftykins> yep
[21:08] <daftykins> no concern imo :)
[21:08] <penguin42> at least with cc you've got some comeback
[21:08] <daftykins> or maybe i've just been lucky
[21:14] <directhex> yeah, if you get scammed with a debit card, it's your problem
[21:14] <directhex> scammed with credit, you can just refuse to pay for that item, and it's the CC company's problem to recover the money from the scammer
[21:15] <daftykins> hrmm.
[21:16] <daftykins> i wonder, old girl reckons debit cards have some element of protection these days too
[21:18] <zmoylan-pi> they're supposed to on paper but i haven't heard many success stories
[21:21] <zmoylan-pi> ...but that might be it's used less than credit cards...
[21:27] <daftykins> mmm
[21:36] <pwaring> If someone charges your debit card fradulently, your bank should refund you
[21:37] <pwaring> How much hassle that will be depends on whether you feel lucky or not
[21:38] <daftykins> i did laugh at a mate who works at a bank, who claimed they would *always* do the honourable thing if your account was compromised in some way following a failure with the security features on a card (such as the contactless payment)
[21:39] <penguin42> yeh right
[21:39] <pwaring> In theory they should
[21:39] <pwaring> In practice they don't :)
[21:39] <pwaring> But generally if the bank refuses to cough up the onus is on them to prove that you acted negligently (e.g. writing your PIN down)
[21:40]  * pwaring pays by CC so that in the meantime it's the bank's money not his
[21:41] <popey> oh yay, they shut steam down
[21:43] <penguin42> yeh the steam guys aren't going to be having a restful christmas by the looks of it
[21:45]  * pwaring wonders if tehy added extra caching to cope with the 'oh look, Steam machine for Christmas' demand
[21:45] <daftykins> there's demand for that? ;)
[21:45] <penguin42> pwaring: They did say initially it was a caching problem; but erm that's one hell of a problem
[21:45]  * pwaring remembers something like this happening at college
[21:45] <pwaring> If you logged into a site and then someone else visited the same site, they saw your front page
[21:46] <pwaring> But they didn't have a session cookie so they couldn't do anything
[21:46] <daftykins> yeah that rings a bell to me too
[21:46] <pwaring> This was at the intranet proxy cache rather than site level though
[23:06]  * popey boggles at TV Adverts for Clash of Clans featuring Christophe Waltz.
[23:06] <popey> Wonder how much they paid for that