/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/12/29/#lubuntu-devel.txt

tsimonq2wxl, phillw: Are we doing an Alpha right now? I got the email from Adam and I am all for it, but I don't know what you or gilir had planned.20:14
wxltsimonq2: i'm not sure if we are or not. it sounds like there are several nasty bugs across all the images. we probably could do an alpha one, but given the timing, i'm kinda thinking of not doing it.21:19
tsimonq2wxl: ok, your choice :)21:20
tsimonq2wxl: I was just kinds wondering21:20
tsimonq2*kinda21:20
wxltsimonq2: do you see any way we can provide an alpha one that's functional??21:21
tsimonq2wxl: well is Lubuntu building and installing correctly?21:22
tsimonq2wxl: have the QA tests been successful?21:22
wxltsimonq2: well the builds are fine, but there are several QA issues. give it a shot yourself and you'll see.21:23
wxltsimonq2: Kamilion was going to check more into it to verify but it seems ubiquity and debian-installer both are misbehaving21:23
tsimonq2wxl: I don't have access to a VM until tonight21:23
tsimonq2wxl: how about this, if the installer doesn't break, and it runs fine for all of the QA tests, then I see no reason besides lack of time, which I can compensate for, to hold back on Alpha one21:24
wxltsimonq2: then we await the response from Kamilion :)21:24
* tsimonq2 also nudges ianorlin 21:24
wxltsimonq2: if all the QA tests pass, without a bunch of annoying workarounds, then sure21:24
tsimonq2alright21:25
wxltsimonq2: adueppen can provide more insight on the ubiquity bug21:25
tsimonq2wxl: I will summon him21:25
tsimonq2adueppen: soooo what's up with the ubiquity bug?21:26
tsimonq2adueppen: and can you give us a bug number?21:27
adueppenwell this bug (#1527353) is affecting ubiquity-dm, it's damaging to the user experience since selecting "Install *buntu" at the boot menu fails to actually open ubiquity since it crashes. I've been working with Kamilion and darkxst to try to find out how to fix this, so at the moment I'm trying to boot off a flash drive with persistence in Virtualbox.21:29
Kamilionhm?21:30
* Kamilion tries to piece the conversation together between all his disconnects21:30
adueppenAnd let's just say that booting off a flash drive in virtualbox is really really annoying21:31
Kamilionaye, I use vmware workstation for that.21:31
Kamilionit's free now21:31
adueppenKamilion: I'll have to try that21:32
Kamilionhttp://www.vmware.com/products/player/21:32
adueppenmy flash drive keeps disconnecting the moment I start the VM21:32
Kamilionno remote access to ESXi standalone hypervisors with "workstation" (which replaces the older "player"), to get that back, you need "Workstation Pro" now, which is the old "Workstation" when "Player" was around.21:33
tsimonq2adueppen: so you are saying, that when someone selects Install Ubuntu, it just goes to a live session?21:33
tsimonq2adueppen: and you can then start ubiquity from there?21:33
Kamiliontsimonq2: that was my understanding as well.21:33
adueppentsimonq2: yeah, it briefly shows ubiquity but then flashes to the tty and then goes into the live session. It also affects all flavors (except supposedly Kubuntu)21:33
tsimonq2wxl: do you think this is bad enough to not push out Alpha one?21:34
Kamilionwxl: I'd appreciate an alpha 1 even if it's full of bugs and release note entries. Request more help testing there.21:34
wxlindeed it seems that that's a relatively small problem21:35
tsimonq2wxl's call21:35
wxlon the other hand, phillw tells me that debian-installer is pretty much borked21:35
Kamilionon Alternate's side?21:35
wxlcorrect Kamilion21:35
Kamilionbug number for it and I'll try to reproduce21:35
tsimonq2would someone be willing to complete the test suites for Alternate quick?21:36
adueppenand somehow I got caught up in both of these bugs :P21:36
wxlworking on it21:36
wxladueppen: the other one being?21:36
adueppenwxl: the debian-installer bug21:36
wxlhttp://launchpad.net/bugs/152929721:36
ubot93Launchpad bug 1529297 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "[Xenial] 2015-12-25 ISOs (multiple ones) leave 'deb' line for CDROM uncommented after install" [Undecided,Confirmed]21:36
tsimonq2adueppen: just out of curiosity, I asked in #kubuntu-devel about bug 152735321:37
Kamilionah, I saw that one go past earlier21:37
wxlapparently one can solve that but i think phillw said the updater is still borked21:37
Kamilionbut that seems fairly cut and dried21:37
phillwbug 1529297 pretty much leaves all server based ISO's dead until resolved.21:37
ubot93bug 1529297 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "[Xenial] 2015-12-25 ISOs (multiple ones) leave 'deb' line for CDROM uncommented after install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152929721:37
tsimonq2wxl: would it be possible to only push Alpha out for the desktop image, or is it all or nothing?21:38
Kamilionphillw: howso? I'm not seeing much information in the bug report.21:38
wxlunless you first get out to a vt and change the sources.list21:38
wxlright?21:38
wxltsimonq2: no we can do whatever we want really :)21:38
adueppenwell looks like I'm getting VMWare now since I still can't get virtualbox to like my flash drive21:38
Kamilionoh, it's *supposed* to be commented out?21:39
tsimonq2wxl: so the question is, would it be practical to only push out Alpha 1 for Desktop?21:39
phillwKamilion: you need to use vi, comment out the offending line and then sudo apt-get lubuntu-desktop. It would be faster to use the netboot image!21:39
KamilionAgain, minor issues like having to edit the sources.list by hand and *comment out a line* are release-note worthy21:39
* Kamilion tilts his head21:40
adueppenooh now I have a different error from VirtualBox21:40
* phillw keeps schtum on that one :)21:40
Kamilionapt-get install lubuntu-desktop? Shouldn't the package be installed when Alternate finishes?21:40
* Kamilion is confused21:40
adueppenKamilion: it should but for whatever reason it isn't being installed21:40
tsimonq2wxl: I subscribed the Lubuntu Packages Team to bug http://launchpad.net/bugs/152929721:40
Kamilionahhhh.21:40
Kamilionsee, that's a lot more important to note than "a line needs to be uncommented" >.<21:41
wxlthx21:41
tsimonq2wxl: so we can keep updated as it is pretty major21:41
* Kamilion sighs21:41
Kamilionso I have a fresh ISO roll, but I can't test it21:41
phillwthe current work-around is to use net-boot as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall, or via server, which is a one line edit and then use tasksel, either way, It's not really and alternate install?21:42
adueppenwell now I need to go before my sister gets really mad at me, so goodbye for 30 min-1 hour. I'll remain on IRC but don't expect me to respond21:42
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/mcTPI/1e13e18c9c.jpg *grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*21:43
tsimonq2now the question is, who wants to look into bug 1529297?21:43
phillwtsimonq2: it is an up-stream bug.21:44
tsimonq2phillw: as in Debian?21:44
wxlmy concern is that there's always someone that will download the alpha and install it and then base their entire opinion on the OS on that experience21:45
tsimonq2I agree with wxl21:45
phillwmost likely someone from server team (canonical employee) will take it up, and thus fix our issue.21:45
wxlit's also true that rarely do people even read the darn release notes :/21:45
phillwwxl: I'd rather not release the alternate's21:45
wxlphillw: that's kind of where i'm headed with it21:45
tsimonq2phillw: in a bit I am gonna see if there is an upstream bug21:46
wxladditionally, especially given the holiday season, it's doubtful we're going to get jack doodley from canonical to solve the d-i problem21:46
wxltsimonq2: he means upstream from lubuntu, i.e. it's in canonical's hands. the issue does not lie any farther upstream21:46
phillwit is only A1... no need to loose sleep, with people  on vacation it was a long shot to get A1 out between Christmas and New Year.21:46
wxlthat being said, i'm very disinclined towards pushing out alternate21:47
wxldesktop is a maybe, i guess21:47
wxladueppen: you said you were working with darkxst on that?21:47
adueppenyes, but he isn't online right now21:47
wxladueppen: did it sounds like they were going to release A1?21:48
phillwhe's pretty ill, so will not be on for long periods.21:48
wxlso that's probably a no21:48
adueppenwxl: also I didn't ask him about A121:48
wxlpart of me really things we should just skip A1 altogether.21:48
phillw+121:48
wxlif it's not all the issues and the lack of support it's just timing21:49
phillwyup21:49
adueppen*not experienced enough to give an opinion*21:49
wxli think we should instead spend our time really working hard to verify, confirm, and clarify the bugs as much as possible21:49
wxlperhaps working to check which flavors are affected21:49
wxlsound good to you tsimonq2 Kamilion ?21:50
phillwwxl: only us and server team with https://launchpad.net/bugs/1529297 I'm sure Canonical team will get on that after the Holiday period.21:50
ubot93Launchpad bug 1529297 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "[Xenial] 2015-12-25 ISOs (multiple ones) leave 'deb' line for CDROM uncommented after install" [Undecided,Confirmed]21:50
wxl+121:51
tsimonq2sounds good to me21:51
wxli think better to give them that as work to be completed by A2 rather than have them rush and somehow get it done in the next 2 days when they're likely on holiday21:51
wxland/or trying to prepare for holiday21:51
tsimonq2ok :)21:51
tsimonq2*unless* someone here feels inclined to just go ahead and fix it21:51
tsimonq2then I think we could move forward21:52
tsimonq2but no rush21:52
tsimonq2right?21:52
wxlyeah well i don't think any of us here have the capacity21:52
wxlthis is not a lubuntu problem, otherwise it might be fairly trivial to just fix it21:52
wxlbut you're welcome to try to figure out the fix :)21:53
Kamilionhm?21:53
tsimonq2tomorrow I will look into it21:53
Kamilionsorry, trying to get http://puu.sh/mcTPI/1e13e18c9c.jpg to stop being stupid21:53
wxli see your problem21:54
wxlit's at the bottom left21:54
KamilionSkype?21:54
wxlyour other left, silly21:54
phillwha ha :P21:54
wxlbug 121:54
ubot93bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121:54
KamilionThat should be closed21:55
wxla loco opened it21:55
Kamilionhasn't been true for a while21:55
wxlbecause it affects them there ;)21:55
tsimonq2HUH? XD21:55
wxljust go read the bug tsimonq2. it's worth a good laugh21:55
KamilionWindows already dropped below 40% market share21:56
KamilionI think it's about 38% right now?21:56
tsimonq2Kamilion: pie chart for me?21:56
tsimonq2:D21:56
Kamilionhttp://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2012/12/06/end_of_wintel_mary_meeker_and_horace_dediu_say_the_wintel_market_share_has/1354805065682.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.1280.1280.jpeg21:56
wxlglobally, but that may not be in malaysia21:56
Kamiliongood enough?21:56
* tsimonq2 sighs21:57
KamilionAndroid currently has most of the marketshare.21:57
Kamilionany other pie chart or graph you see is going to be skewed in some way, tsimonq2. Either "Desktop Operating Systems" will be used to exclude android from the running, or it'll be a comparison between market shares of something else like the various windows *versions* against some arbitrary list of others21:59
adueppenWindows versions aka reskins22:00
Kamilionadueppen: if only that were the case22:00
Kamilionand simply not true22:00
Kamilionotherwise pre-XP era software would work fine post-vista.22:00
adueppenKamilion: I am sort of joking22:00
Kamilionbut it doesn't because of the monsterous security model changes they made to restrict most users to their homedir, unix style.22:01
Kamilionno longer can you write to C:\Program Files (x86)\YourApplication\*.* just because it's running.22:01
Kamilion.NET 1.1 was a flop22:01
Kamilionbut .NET 2.0 - 3.5 is actually fairly well thought out and designed22:02
adueppenIt is kind of funny though how Windows's compatibility mode only goes back to Windows 95 but Wine's compatibility mode goes back to 1.022:02
Kamilionand a lot of their modern infrastructure relies on it22:02
* tsimonq2 slaps Kamilion across the side of the head and points him towards #lubuntu-offtopic22:02
* tsimonq2 does the same to adueppen 22:02
* adueppen thinks it still sorta has to do with linux in some way or another22:02
ianorlintsimonq2: argh yes that is annoying I think I was getting that22:02
Kamilionwell, I was actually getting into mono4 pulling in microsoft's now-open .net4 base code22:03
tsimonq2ianorlin: hm?22:03
ianorlinin having the intsall launch the live session22:03
tsimonq2oh ok :)22:04
Kamilionhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/190622:05
* Kamilion chuckles22:05
ubot93Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]22:05
ianorlinbug 152735322:05
ubot93bug 1527353 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity shows for a second goes to tty then starts live session. " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152735322:06
adueppenianorlin: oh yes that bug...22:06
ianorlinso that is the one to put on the tracker22:06
adueppenyes22:06
ianorlinargh got distracted and may not have time for testcases right now22:06
ianorlinbut better than duplicates22:07
adueppenIt's also the bug I'm working on for code-in22:07
ianorlinadueppen: nice :)22:07
KamilionAlright, I'm not going to be much help currently22:07
KamilionVMware has decided that I may only access ESXi and may not run local VMs anymore.22:07
KamilionVBox refuses to start22:08
* Kamilion shrugs22:08
phillwKamilion: use KVM :)22:08
KamilionHyper-V you mean.22:08
KamilionKVM is the linux kernel virtual machine.22:08
adueppenI think I finally managed to get VirtualBox to boot my flash drive22:08
KamilionNot available on NT kernel.22:08
adueppenwow all this work and all I get is "Boot error"22:09
phillwKamilion: ahh, if you're on NT, you're on your own. I've run server 2008 on a KVM, never linux on a windows machin22:09
Kamilionthe problem is, I have an nvidia geforce 61022:09
Kamilionnvidia, in their infinite ("fuck nvidia." -- Linus Torvalds) wisdom decided to detect Xen and KVM virtualization and disable access to the GPU in the drivers.22:10
KamilionWindows has to be on top for the GPU to be of any use :/22:11
KamilionI'll take gifts/donations towards an AMD GPU though! XD22:11
wxl!language | Kamilion22:11
wxlXD22:11
ubot93Kamilion: The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList22:11
phillwha ha @ wxl22:11
Kamilionwxl: Direct quote from the author of the linux kernel, don't blame me, blame nvidia. :)22:11
wxltee hee22:12
Kamilionand yes, I'm aware of !language, but I'm calm, and the tone is very polite.22:12
adueppenKamilion yeah I have an Nvidia gpu but I kind of have to since the AMD drivers on linux, well, aren't exactly good.22:12
wxl:)22:12
KamilionIndeed, like Linus, I would like "to strike" nvidia.22:12
* wxl is just being a jerk, silly22:13
Kamilionadueppen: that's changing, thankfully!22:13
Kamilionhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/9853/amd-gpuopen-linux-open-source22:13
Kamilioncheck it out.22:13
Kamilion"amdgpu" is the new open driver22:13
adueppenKamilion: yeah I heard about that22:13
Kamilionthey're chucking catalyst and wrapping a few closed source bits around the new FOSS kernel driver.22:14
KamilionAnd honestly, that's totally fine to me22:14
Kamilionas long as they're making progress towards openness and free source22:14
KamilionThey havn't made the big source push *yet*22:15
Kamilionthat'll happen in january, apparently22:15
Kamilionoh, hey, how nice. George Carlin actually compiled a list of 2,443 filthy words and phrases, called "An Incomplete List of Impolite Words"22:18
KamilionI'll have to commit that to memory so I don't commit more faux pas in this channel. :322:19
Kamilionadueppen: so, depending on how well that works out, I'll think about picking up an AMD 380X22:20
Kamilionhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/9784/the-amd-radeon-r9-380x-review22:21
Kamilionfull 2048 stream processors, MSRP of $22922:21
* Kamilion has a pair of R7 260Xs in his other PC22:22
Kamilionhttp://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-380X-vs-Radeon-R7-260X22:23
Kamilionmy card has 896 stream processors, and I paid $149 each for them22:24
Kamilionso one 380X is nearly three times the performance of one of my 260Xs22:24
tsimonq2#lubuntu-offtopic!22:24
KamilionAs far as I know, 'radeonhd' doesn't yet support the 380X though22:25
Kamilionso I've been holding off on getting a hold of one until april22:25
Kamilionbut now that "amdgpu" has shown up, I might consider getting a hold of one earlier than that and making sure 16.04 fires up properly on them22:26
tsimonq2Kamilion! offtopic!22:26
Kamiliontsimonq2: If you keep that up, I'm just going to put you on /ignore.22:26
KamilionActually, I'll just shut up entirely22:27
* Kamilion closes kvirc22:27
tsimonq2Kamilion: rules are rule!22:29
tsimonq2*rules22:29

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