[20:14] <tsimonq2> wxl, phillw: Are we doing an Alpha right now? I got the email from Adam and I am all for it, but I don't know what you or gilir had planned.
[21:19] <wxl> tsimonq2: i'm not sure if we are or not. it sounds like there are several nasty bugs across all the images. we probably could do an alpha one, but given the timing, i'm kinda thinking of not doing it.
[21:20] <tsimonq2> wxl: ok, your choice :)
[21:20] <tsimonq2> wxl: I was just kinds wondering
[21:20] <tsimonq2> *kinda
[21:21] <wxl> tsimonq2: do you see any way we can provide an alpha one that's functional??
[21:22] <tsimonq2> wxl: well is Lubuntu building and installing correctly?
[21:22] <tsimonq2> wxl: have the QA tests been successful?
[21:23] <wxl> tsimonq2: well the builds are fine, but there are several QA issues. give it a shot yourself and you'll see.
[21:23] <wxl> tsimonq2: Kamilion was going to check more into it to verify but it seems ubiquity and debian-installer both are misbehaving
[21:23] <tsimonq2> wxl: I don't have access to a VM until tonight
[21:24] <tsimonq2> wxl: how about this, if the installer doesn't break, and it runs fine for all of the QA tests, then I see no reason besides lack of time, which I can compensate for, to hold back on Alpha one
[21:24] <wxl> tsimonq2: then we await the response from Kamilion :)
[21:24]  * tsimonq2 also nudges ianorlin 
[21:24] <wxl> tsimonq2: if all the QA tests pass, without a bunch of annoying workarounds, then sure
[21:25] <tsimonq2> alright
[21:25] <wxl> tsimonq2: adueppen can provide more insight on the ubiquity bug
[21:25] <tsimonq2> wxl: I will summon him
[21:26] <tsimonq2> adueppen: soooo what's up with the ubiquity bug?
[21:27] <tsimonq2> adueppen: and can you give us a bug number?
[21:29] <adueppen> well this bug (#1527353) is affecting ubiquity-dm, it's damaging to the user experience since selecting "Install *buntu" at the boot menu fails to actually open ubiquity since it crashes. I've been working with Kamilion and darkxst to try to find out how to fix this, so at the moment I'm trying to boot off a flash drive with persistence in Virtualbox.
[21:30] <Kamilion> hm?
[21:30]  * Kamilion tries to piece the conversation together between all his disconnects
[21:31] <adueppen> And let's just say that booting off a flash drive in virtualbox is really really annoying
[21:31] <Kamilion> aye, I use vmware workstation for that.
[21:31] <Kamilion> it's free now
[21:32] <adueppen> Kamilion: I'll have to try that
[21:32] <Kamilion> http://www.vmware.com/products/player/
[21:32] <adueppen> my flash drive keeps disconnecting the moment I start the VM
[21:33] <Kamilion> no remote access to ESXi standalone hypervisors with "workstation" (which replaces the older "player"), to get that back, you need "Workstation Pro" now, which is the old "Workstation" when "Player" was around.
[21:33] <tsimonq2> adueppen: so you are saying, that when someone selects Install Ubuntu, it just goes to a live session?
[21:33] <tsimonq2> adueppen: and you can then start ubiquity from there?
[21:33] <Kamilion> tsimonq2: that was my understanding as well.
[21:33] <adueppen> tsimonq2: yeah, it briefly shows ubiquity but then flashes to the tty and then goes into the live session. It also affects all flavors (except supposedly Kubuntu)
[21:34] <tsimonq2> wxl: do you think this is bad enough to not push out Alpha one?
[21:34] <Kamilion> wxl: I'd appreciate an alpha 1 even if it's full of bugs and release note entries. Request more help testing there.
[21:35] <wxl> indeed it seems that that's a relatively small problem
[21:35] <tsimonq2> wxl's call
[21:35] <wxl> on the other hand, phillw tells me that debian-installer is pretty much borked
[21:35] <Kamilion> on Alternate's side?
[21:35] <wxl> correct Kamilion
[21:35] <Kamilion> bug number for it and I'll try to reproduce
[21:36] <tsimonq2> would someone be willing to complete the test suites for Alternate quick?
[21:36] <adueppen> and somehow I got caught up in both of these bugs :P
[21:36] <wxl> working on it
[21:36] <wxl> adueppen: the other one being?
[21:36] <adueppen> wxl: the debian-installer bug
[21:36] <wxl> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1529297
[21:37] <tsimonq2> adueppen: just out of curiosity, I asked in #kubuntu-devel about bug 1527353
[21:37] <Kamilion> ah, I saw that one go past earlier
[21:37] <wxl> apparently one can solve that but i think phillw said the updater is still borked
[21:37] <Kamilion> but that seems fairly cut and dried
[21:37] <phillw> bug 1529297 pretty much leaves all server based ISO's dead until resolved.
[21:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: would it be possible to only push Alpha out for the desktop image, or is it all or nothing?
[21:38] <Kamilion> phillw: howso? I'm not seeing much information in the bug report.
[21:38] <wxl> unless you first get out to a vt and change the sources.list
[21:38] <wxl> right?
[21:38] <wxl> tsimonq2: no we can do whatever we want really :)
[21:38] <adueppen> well looks like I'm getting VMWare now since I still can't get virtualbox to like my flash drive
[21:39] <Kamilion> oh, it's *supposed* to be commented out?
[21:39] <tsimonq2> wxl: so the question is, would it be practical to only push out Alpha 1 for Desktop?
[21:39] <phillw> Kamilion: you need to use vi, comment out the offending line and then sudo apt-get lubuntu-desktop. It would be faster to use the netboot image!
[21:39] <Kamilion> Again, minor issues like having to edit the sources.list by hand and *comment out a line* are release-note worthy
[21:40]  * Kamilion tilts his head
[21:40] <adueppen> ooh now I have a different error from VirtualBox
[21:40]  * phillw keeps schtum on that one :)
[21:40] <Kamilion> apt-get install lubuntu-desktop? Shouldn't the package be installed when Alternate finishes?
[21:40]  * Kamilion is confused
[21:40] <adueppen> Kamilion: it should but for whatever reason it isn't being installed
[21:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: I subscribed the Lubuntu Packages Team to bug http://launchpad.net/bugs/1529297
[21:40] <Kamilion> ahhhh.
[21:41] <Kamilion> see, that's a lot more important to note than "a line needs to be uncommented" >.<
[21:41] <wxl> thx
[21:41] <tsimonq2> wxl: so we can keep updated as it is pretty major
[21:41]  * Kamilion sighs
[21:41] <Kamilion> so I have a fresh ISO roll, but I can't test it
[21:42] <phillw> the current work-around is to use net-boot as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall, or via server, which is a one line edit and then use tasksel, either way, It's not really and alternate install?
[21:42] <adueppen> well now I need to go before my sister gets really mad at me, so goodbye for 30 min-1 hour. I'll remain on IRC but don't expect me to respond
[21:43] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/mcTPI/1e13e18c9c.jpg *grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*
[21:43] <tsimonq2> now the question is, who wants to look into bug 1529297?
[21:44] <phillw> tsimonq2: it is an up-stream bug.
[21:44] <tsimonq2> phillw: as in Debian?
[21:45] <wxl> my concern is that there's always someone that will download the alpha and install it and then base their entire opinion on the OS on that experience
[21:45] <tsimonq2> I agree with wxl
[21:45] <phillw> most likely someone from server team (canonical employee) will take it up, and thus fix our issue.
[21:45] <wxl> it's also true that rarely do people even read the darn release notes :/
[21:45] <phillw> wxl: I'd rather not release the alternate's
[21:45] <wxl> phillw: that's kind of where i'm headed with it
[21:46] <tsimonq2> phillw: in a bit I am gonna see if there is an upstream bug
[21:46] <wxl> additionally, especially given the holiday season, it's doubtful we're going to get jack doodley from canonical to solve the d-i problem
[21:46] <wxl> tsimonq2: he means upstream from lubuntu, i.e. it's in canonical's hands. the issue does not lie any farther upstream
[21:46] <phillw> it is only A1... no need to loose sleep, with people  on vacation it was a long shot to get A1 out between Christmas and New Year.
[21:47] <wxl> that being said, i'm very disinclined towards pushing out alternate
[21:47] <wxl> desktop is a maybe, i guess
[21:47] <wxl> adueppen: you said you were working with darkxst on that?
[21:47] <adueppen> yes, but he isn't online right now
[21:48] <wxl> adueppen: did it sounds like they were going to release A1?
[21:48] <phillw> he's pretty ill, so will not be on for long periods.
[21:48] <wxl> so that's probably a no
[21:48] <adueppen> wxl: also I didn't ask him about A1
[21:48] <wxl> part of me really things we should just skip A1 altogether.
[21:48] <phillw> +1
[21:49] <wxl> if it's not all the issues and the lack of support it's just timing
[21:49] <phillw> yup
[21:49] <adueppen> *not experienced enough to give an opinion*
[21:49] <wxl> i think we should instead spend our time really working hard to verify, confirm, and clarify the bugs as much as possible
[21:49] <wxl> perhaps working to check which flavors are affected
[21:50] <wxl> sound good to you tsimonq2 Kamilion ?
[21:50] <phillw> wxl: only us and server team with https://launchpad.net/bugs/1529297 I'm sure Canonical team will get on that after the Holiday period.
[21:51] <wxl> +1
[21:51] <tsimonq2> sounds good to me
[21:51] <wxl> i think better to give them that as work to be completed by A2 rather than have them rush and somehow get it done in the next 2 days when they're likely on holiday
[21:51] <wxl> and/or trying to prepare for holiday
[21:51] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[21:51] <tsimonq2> *unless* someone here feels inclined to just go ahead and fix it
[21:52] <tsimonq2> then I think we could move forward
[21:52] <tsimonq2> but no rush
[21:52] <tsimonq2> right?
[21:52] <wxl> yeah well i don't think any of us here have the capacity
[21:52] <wxl> this is not a lubuntu problem, otherwise it might be fairly trivial to just fix it
[21:53] <wxl> but you're welcome to try to figure out the fix :)
[21:53] <Kamilion> hm?
[21:53] <tsimonq2> tomorrow I will look into it
[21:53] <Kamilion> sorry, trying to get http://puu.sh/mcTPI/1e13e18c9c.jpg to stop being stupid
[21:54] <wxl> i see your problem
[21:54] <wxl> it's at the bottom left
[21:54] <Kamilion> Skype?
[21:54] <wxl> your other left, silly
[21:54] <phillw> ha ha :P
[21:54] <wxl> bug 1
[21:55] <Kamilion> That should be closed
[21:55] <wxl> a loco opened it
[21:55] <Kamilion> hasn't been true for a while
[21:55] <wxl> because it affects them there ;)
[21:55] <tsimonq2> HUH? XD
[21:55] <wxl> just go read the bug tsimonq2. it's worth a good laugh
[21:56] <Kamilion> Windows already dropped below 40% market share
[21:56] <Kamilion> I think it's about 38% right now?
[21:56] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: pie chart for me?
[21:56] <tsimonq2> :D
[21:56] <Kamilion> http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2012/12/06/end_of_wintel_mary_meeker_and_horace_dediu_say_the_wintel_market_share_has/1354805065682.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.1280.1280.jpeg
[21:56] <wxl> globally, but that may not be in malaysia
[21:56] <Kamilion> good enough?
[21:57]  * tsimonq2 sighs
[21:57] <Kamilion> Android currently has most of the marketshare.
[21:59] <Kamilion> any other pie chart or graph you see is going to be skewed in some way, tsimonq2. Either "Desktop Operating Systems" will be used to exclude android from the running, or it'll be a comparison between market shares of something else like the various windows *versions* against some arbitrary list of others
[22:00] <adueppen> Windows versions aka reskins
[22:00] <Kamilion> adueppen: if only that were the case
[22:00] <Kamilion> and simply not true
[22:00] <Kamilion> otherwise pre-XP era software would work fine post-vista.
[22:00] <adueppen> Kamilion: I am sort of joking
[22:01] <Kamilion> but it doesn't because of the monsterous security model changes they made to restrict most users to their homedir, unix style.
[22:01] <Kamilion> no longer can you write to C:\Program Files (x86)\YourApplication\*.* just because it's running.
[22:01] <Kamilion> .NET 1.1 was a flop
[22:02] <Kamilion> but .NET 2.0 - 3.5 is actually fairly well thought out and designed
[22:02] <adueppen> It is kind of funny though how Windows's compatibility mode only goes back to Windows 95 but Wine's compatibility mode goes back to 1.0
[22:02] <Kamilion> and a lot of their modern infrastructure relies on it
[22:02]  * tsimonq2 slaps Kamilion across the side of the head and points him towards #lubuntu-offtopic
[22:02]  * tsimonq2 does the same to adueppen 
[22:02]  * adueppen thinks it still sorta has to do with linux in some way or another
[22:02] <ianorlin> tsimonq2: argh yes that is annoying I think I was getting that
[22:03] <Kamilion> well, I was actually getting into mono4 pulling in microsoft's now-open .net4 base code
[22:03] <tsimonq2> ianorlin: hm?
[22:03] <ianorlin> in having the intsall launch the live session
[22:04] <tsimonq2> oh ok :)
[22:05] <Kamilion> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1906
[22:05]  * Kamilion chuckles
[22:05] <ianorlin> bug 1527353
[22:06] <adueppen> ianorlin: oh yes that bug...
[22:06] <ianorlin> so that is the one to put on the tracker
[22:06] <adueppen> yes
[22:06] <ianorlin> argh got distracted and may not have time for testcases right now
[22:07] <ianorlin> but better than duplicates
[22:07] <adueppen> It's also the bug I'm working on for code-in
[22:07] <ianorlin> adueppen: nice :)
[22:07] <Kamilion> Alright, I'm not going to be much help currently
[22:07] <Kamilion> VMware has decided that I may only access ESXi and may not run local VMs anymore.
[22:08] <Kamilion> VBox refuses to start
[22:08]  * Kamilion shrugs
[22:08] <phillw> Kamilion: use KVM :)
[22:08] <Kamilion> Hyper-V you mean.
[22:08] <Kamilion> KVM is the linux kernel virtual machine.
[22:08] <adueppen> I think I finally managed to get VirtualBox to boot my flash drive
[22:08] <Kamilion> Not available on NT kernel.
[22:09] <adueppen> wow all this work and all I get is "Boot error"
[22:09] <phillw> Kamilion: ahh, if you're on NT, you're on your own. I've run server 2008 on a KVM, never linux on a windows machin
[22:09] <Kamilion> the problem is, I have an nvidia geforce 610
[22:10] <Kamilion> nvidia, in their infinite ("fuck nvidia." -- Linus Torvalds) wisdom decided to detect Xen and KVM virtualization and disable access to the GPU in the drivers.
[22:11] <Kamilion> Windows has to be on top for the GPU to be of any use :/
[22:11] <Kamilion> I'll take gifts/donations towards an AMD GPU though! XD
[22:11] <wxl> !language | Kamilion
[22:11] <wxl> XD
[22:11] <phillw> ha ha @ wxl
[22:11] <Kamilion> wxl: Direct quote from the author of the linux kernel, don't blame me, blame nvidia. :)
[22:12] <wxl> tee hee
[22:12] <Kamilion> and yes, I'm aware of !language, but I'm calm, and the tone is very polite.
[22:12] <adueppen> Kamilion yeah I have an Nvidia gpu but I kind of have to since the AMD drivers on linux, well, aren't exactly good.
[22:12] <wxl> :)
[22:12] <Kamilion> Indeed, like Linus, I would like "to strike" nvidia.
[22:13]  * wxl is just being a jerk, silly
[22:13] <Kamilion> adueppen: that's changing, thankfully!
[22:13] <Kamilion> http://www.anandtech.com/show/9853/amd-gpuopen-linux-open-source
[22:13] <Kamilion> check it out.
[22:13] <Kamilion> "amdgpu" is the new open driver
[22:13] <adueppen> Kamilion: yeah I heard about that
[22:14] <Kamilion> they're chucking catalyst and wrapping a few closed source bits around the new FOSS kernel driver.
[22:14] <Kamilion> And honestly, that's totally fine to me
[22:14] <Kamilion> as long as they're making progress towards openness and free source
[22:15] <Kamilion> They havn't made the big source push *yet*
[22:15] <Kamilion> that'll happen in january, apparently
[22:18] <Kamilion> oh, hey, how nice. George Carlin actually compiled a list of 2,443 filthy words and phrases, called "An Incomplete List of Impolite Words"
[22:19] <Kamilion> I'll have to commit that to memory so I don't commit more faux pas in this channel. :3
[22:20] <Kamilion> adueppen: so, depending on how well that works out, I'll think about picking up an AMD 380X
[22:21] <Kamilion> http://www.anandtech.com/show/9784/the-amd-radeon-r9-380x-review
[22:21] <Kamilion> full 2048 stream processors, MSRP of $229
[22:22]  * Kamilion has a pair of R7 260Xs in his other PC
[22:23] <Kamilion> http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-380X-vs-Radeon-R7-260X
[22:24] <Kamilion> my card has 896 stream processors, and I paid $149 each for them
[22:24] <Kamilion> so one 380X is nearly three times the performance of one of my 260Xs
[22:24] <tsimonq2> #lubuntu-offtopic!
[22:25] <Kamilion> As far as I know, 'radeonhd' doesn't yet support the 380X though
[22:25] <Kamilion> so I've been holding off on getting a hold of one until april
[22:26] <Kamilion> but now that "amdgpu" has shown up, I might consider getting a hold of one earlier than that and making sure 16.04 fires up properly on them
[22:26] <tsimonq2> Kamilion! offtopic!
[22:26] <Kamilion> tsimonq2: If you keep that up, I'm just going to put you on /ignore.
[22:27] <Kamilion> Actually, I'll just shut up entirely
[22:27]  * Kamilion closes kvirc
[22:29] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: rules are rule!
[22:29] <tsimonq2> *rules