[16:39] <tyhicks> hello
[16:39] <tyhicks> #startmeeting
[16:39] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  4 16:39:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:39] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:39] <tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:39] <tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:39] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:39] <tyhicks> Bryan Quigley (gQuigs) provided a debdiff for trusty for cups (LP: #1505328)
[16:39] <tyhicks> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for precise-wily for xen
[16:40] <tyhicks> Louis Bouchard (caribou) provided debdiffs for trusty-wily for sosreport (LP: #1525271)
[16:40] <tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
[16:40] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:40] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:40] <mdeslaur> \o
[16:40] <mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
[16:41] <mdeslaur> I'm currently working on the samba updates
[16:41] <mdeslaur> I plan on releasing those probably this week
[16:41] <mdeslaur> and I have some other updates in the security team proposed ppa that need testing
[16:41] <mdeslaur> and I'll see if I can pick something else from the list after that
[16:41] <mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me, sbeattie?
[16:42] <tyhicks> I don't think he's in yet so I'll go
[16:42] <tyhicks> I'm in the community role this week
[16:42] <tyhicks> I have a lot of email catchup to do from the holidays (as I'm sure we all do)
[16:43] <mdeslaur> ctrl-a, del
[16:43] <tyhicks> after that, I plan on helping jjohansen with the AppArmor stacking work
[16:43] <tyhicks> :)
[16:44] <tyhicks> I'd also like to spend a little bit of time looking at rngd and if it works to seed /dev/random with the hwrng on the beagle bone black
[16:44] <jjohansen> well right up until you get to that third email ...
[16:44] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:45] <jjohansen> I will be looking at (drowning in) the email backlog as well
[16:46] <jjohansen> besides that it doing AppArmor stacking work
[16:46] <jjohansen> well and I guess syncing up with sbeattie and the kteam on where the kernel is
[16:46] <jjohansen> s/kernel/kernel workflow/
[16:47] <jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you are up
[16:47] <sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week
[16:47] <sarnold> also digging my way out of email
[16:48] <sarnold> will continue the dpdk mir this week, aiming to finish it soon
[16:48] <sarnold> will help out with apparmor kernel patch review once that's finished
[16:48] <sarnold> and learn how to speak in complete sentences next week
[16:49] <sarnold> chrisccoulson?
[16:49] <tyhicks> jjohansen: do we have any pending apparmor kernel patch reviews to be done?
[16:49] <chrisccoulson> I've got a thunderbird update to do this week. And it looks like Oxide and Chromium too
[16:49] <mdeslaur> oh forgot to mention. because of my two-week holiday, I completely forgot how debian packaging works.
[16:49] <tyhicks> I thought I went through all pending patches in the last working week of 2015
[16:49] <jjohansen> tyhicks: no, I think you covered it all
[16:49] <tyhicks> sarnold: fyi ^
[16:49] <sarnold> oh hooray :)
[16:50] <jjohansen> of course since sarnold has so much fun with them ...
[16:50] <tyhicks> chrisccoulson: sorry, go ahead :)
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through my e-mail backlog (well,  ctrl+a, del) and doing some reviews
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
[16:51] <tyhicks> chrisccoulson: lots of updates :)
[16:52] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: impressive that you can remember how debian packaging works across the weekends
[16:52] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:52] <tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:52] <tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:52] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jgit.html
[16:52] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openjpa.html
[16:52] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-h8300-hms.html
[16:52] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.8-ppc64el-cross.html
[16:52] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/doctrine.html
[16:52] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:52] <tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[16:53] <dholbach> just because you mentioned highlighted packages... maybe somebody could take a look at bug 1528682? I saw it in the sponsoring queue today
[16:54] <dholbach> but it's not a real discussion item... :)
[16:55] <tyhicks> dholbach: thanks - I'll have a look this week as part of the community role rotation that I'm on
[16:55] <dholbach> awesome - thanks
[16:55] <tyhicks> mdeslaur, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
[16:55] <tyhicks> #endmeeting
[16:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  4 16:55:51 2016 UTC.
[16:55] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-04-16.39.moin.txt
[16:55] <jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
[16:57] <sarnold> thanks tyhicks
[16:58] <mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
[18:54] <cyphermox_> o/
[18:56] <ginggs> happy new year all!
[18:56] <LocutusOfBorg1> hi :)
[18:58]  * stgraber waves
[19:03] <micahg> !dmb-ping
[19:03] <bdmurray> o/
[19:05] <cyphermox_> who`s turn to chair?
[19:05] <micahg> me I think
[19:06] <micahg> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[19:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  4 19:06:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:06] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:06] <micahg> Welcome to the DMB meeting
[19:07] <micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:07] <micahg> #subtopic DMB members who didn't consent to fill in feedback to Noskcaj
[19:07] <micahg> I'm guessing we didn't do this again?
[19:08] <micahg> carried
[19:08] <micahg> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[19:09] <micahg> #subtopic TimoJyrinki / ubuntu-qt-packages
[19:09] <micahg> I think this just needs a quick vote, right?
[19:10] <stgraber> yeah
[19:10] <cyphermox_> yup
[19:10] <stgraber> and some paperwork as I believe we have the set but no team, I'll take care of that part
[19:10] <micahg> ok
[19:11] <micahg> #voters micahg stgraber cyphermox_ bdmurray
[19:11] <meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox_ micahg stgraber
[19:12] <stgraber>   Mirv -> +1 (IMHO this could have been handled without the extra round
[19:12] <stgraber>   trip)
[19:12] <micahg> #vote Please vote to grant TimoJyrinki rights to the ubuntu-qt-packages packageset
[19:12] <meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote to grant TimoJyrinki rights to the ubuntu-qt-packages packageset
[19:12] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:12] <stgraber> that's from Laney ^
[19:12] <stgraber> +1
[19:12] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:12] <micahg> +1
[19:12] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[19:12] <bdmurray> +1
[19:12] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[19:12] <cyphermox_> +1
[19:12] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox_
[19:13] <micahg> #endvote
[19:13] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote to grant TimoJyrinki rights to the ubuntu-qt-packages packageset
[19:13] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:13] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:13] <micahg> that's +5 actually, so that passes
[19:13] <micahg> stgraber: you ok with the action items around that
[19:13] <stgraber> yeah, I'll take care of it
[19:14] <infinity> Derp.  I'll learn when this meeting is some day.
[19:14] <micahg> #action stgraber to create team for ubuntu-qt-packages and add timo-jyrinki to it
[19:14] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to create team for ubuntu-qt-packages and add timo-jyrinki to it
[19:14] <micahg> #voters infinity
[19:14] <meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox_ infinity micahg stgraber
[19:15] <micahg> welcome infinity
[19:16] <micahg> I think ginggs is next on the agenda
[19:16]  * xnox is here, sorry i'm late
[19:16] <micahg> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Application
[19:16] <micahg> #voters xnox
[19:16] <meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox_ infinity micahg stgraber xnox
[19:16] <micahg> #subtopic Graham Inggs
[19:16] <micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GrahamInggs/CoreDevApplication
[19:17] <micahg> ginggs: can you introduce yourself please
[19:18] <ginggs> hi, I'm Graham Inggs, I've been a MOTU for 2 years and would like to become a core-dev
[19:20] <cyphermox_> I see a lot of uploads, but I find it a little hard to see what work you did that was in main specifically, could you help by pointing us at some things you`re particularly proud of?
[19:21] <xnox> cyphermox_, well, looking at http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsoree=Graham+Inggs&sponsoree_search=name it seem like all the things that were sponsored in 2014 & 2015 were for main, as all other universe uploads are just in launchpad related packages.
[19:21] <ginggs> in main there have been some nvidia driver uploads (those are restricted, actually)
[19:22] <ginggs> recently I was invovled with the suitesparse transition
[19:22] <cyphermox_> xnox: not on my own computer, so I`m without my bookmarks :P
[19:22] <xnox> cyphermox_, ah =) ok, np. =) still chatting is more personal =)
[19:23] <ginggs> then there have been the occasional syncs from debian
[19:24] <xnox> ginggs, after uploading a package into ubuntu, do you do any follow-ups after that?
[19:25] <ginggs> i remain subscribed to the bugs and often subscribe to all bugs for those packages
[19:25] <ginggs> i also check that the packages build everywhere they are supposed to and migrate from proposed
[19:26] <infinity> ginggs: I don't think I have any questions, per se, about your technical skill.  More just a question of what you intend to do with permissions to the entire archive.
[19:26] <infinity> ginggs: Specific main packages you care about, more involvement in transitions, etc.
[19:26] <infinity> (ie: don't be a core-dev unless you need to be)
[19:28] <ginggs> I would probably upload Nvidia drivers from time to time, but I will co-ordinate with tseliot on those, but if there is a fix I won't always have to wait on him
[19:29] <stgraber> micahg: actually, I won't be able to carry that action until the CC adds me back to the TB :)
[19:29] <xnox> ginggs, would you at all have any time to be a sponsor, and/or review things to be sponsored? http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
[19:29] <xnox> stgraber, lolz =)
[19:29] <stgraber> micahg: got everything else done but can't actually add the archive ACL as that requires to be a TB member
[19:29] <stgraber> was wondering why LP didn't like me and was giving me odd 401s for some stuff, that'd be why
[19:29] <ginggs> Yes, I have sponsored a few packages already https://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=Graham+Inggs&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=&sponsoree_search=name
[19:29] <micahg> stgraber: right, saw the mail on that earlier
[19:30] <ginggs> obviously I haven't been able to sponsor any main packages, but being a core-dev would allow me to
[19:30] <xnox> nice =)
[19:33] <infinity> ginggs: Right, so that's where it hinges for me.  An application for status is pointless, an application because you intend to do core-devy things is great, we need more people doing generally awesome general things.
[19:34] <infinity> ginggs: If you're all about helping people with review/sponsorship (emphasis on the REVIEW part), and mangling other main packages here and there, I'm happy with it.
[19:37] <ginggs> i'm very particular about testing before sponsoring
[19:38] <stgraber> micahg: elmo was kind enough to run edit-acl for me, so that's my action taken care of
[19:38] <micahg> stgraber: cool, thanks
[19:38] <micahg> ginggs: have you worked with the -proposed pocket migration to the release pocket in the devel release at all?
[19:39] <ginggs> i'm familiar with this page: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
[19:40] <micahg> have you ever helped a package migrate to the release pocket?
[19:40] <ginggs> and i know to check for autopkgtest failures
[19:40] <ginggs> and reverse-depends
[19:40] <ginggs> is that what you mean?
[19:41] <micahg> yes, partially, have you actually fixed any issues that have come about due to an autopkgtest failure to help a package migrate?
[19:41] <ginggs> yes
[19:42] <micahg> I believe I've seen you work on transitions, so I won't ask about those
[19:42] <micahg> great
[19:42] <micahg> I think that's it for questions
[19:43] <micahg> #vote Please vote on ginggs becoming core-dev
[19:43] <meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on ginggs becoming core-dev
[19:43] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:44] <cyphermox_> +1
[19:44] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox_
[19:44] <bdmurray> +1
[19:44] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[19:44] <stgraber> +1
[19:44] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:46] <micahg> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[19:46] <xnox> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from xnox
[19:46] <micahg> and a +1 from Laney in absentia
[19:46] <micahg> #endvote
[19:46] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on ginggs becoming core-dev
[19:46] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:46] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:46] <micahg> ginggs: congrats
[19:46] <cyphermox_> I`m going to have to go soon
[19:47] <ginggs> thanks, all!
[19:47] <LocutusOfBorg1> congratz ginggs
[19:47] <cyphermox_> congrats ginggs
[19:47] <micahg> cyphermox_: we still have quorum without you
[19:47] <cyphermox_> yeah, just saying in advance.
[19:48] <micahg> I don't see psusi around
[19:48] <micahg> #topic MOTU applications
[19:48] <micahg> #subtopic Gianfranco Costamagna
[19:48] <micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GianfrancoCostamagna/MOTUApplication
[19:49] <micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: could you introduce yourself please
[19:50] <LocutusOfBorg1> Hi, I'm Gianfranco Costamagna, I'm Debian Developer since 5 months, and I have been a DM since 2012 or 2013. I became a DD since I like to maintain my packages there, and sync on Ubuntu, but I always wanted to be an Ubuntu Developer (I applied for NM because somebody told me it was easier to became an Ubuntu starting from being a DD)
[19:51] <LocutusOfBorg1> I worked a lot on merges, and on forwarding patches to Debian (you will see some syncs, because I uploaded the ubuntu delta on Debian and synced soonafter the accept)
[19:51] <LocutusOfBorg1> s/a lot/on a lot
[19:52] <LocutusOfBorg1> my interests are keeping packages in sync, or at least up-to-date with Debian (this includes looking at merges or doing them myself)
[19:52] <LocutusOfBorg1> (e.g. I opened a gambas3 merge a few seconds ago, still needing work, but with a preliminar patch)
[19:53] <LocutusOfBorg1> I think that's all :)
[19:53] <micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: have you ever worked with any of the Ubuntu flavors (Xubuntu/Kubuntu/Lubuntu) whose packages mainly are in universE?
[19:53] <xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, are you going to upload boost-mpi-source1.58 =) and do you know why it needs an upload now? =))))))))
[19:54] <LocutusOfBorg1> xnox, sure
[19:54] <LocutusOfBorg1> micahg, I think I don't remember none of them
[19:54] <LocutusOfBorg1> but I might be wrong, it has been 3 years since my start :)
[19:56] <micahg> do you know of a way to tell a package is on a particular Ubuntu image, in case you need to give one of the flavors a heads up on an upload (or preferably discuss beforehand if it's a potentially disruptive change)
[19:56] <LocutusOfBorg1> honestly not
[19:57] <micahg> so, there's a script in ubuntu-dev-tools
[19:58] <micahg> called seeded-in-ubuntu that can tell you if a package that you're about to upload is on an image
[19:58] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks
[19:58] <xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, which tools do you usually use when working on ubuntu? =)
[19:58] <LocutusOfBorg1> I know reverse-depends, pbuilder-dist, grab-merge, and many others, but never used seeded-in-ubuntu
[19:58] <infinity> (Takes a source package as an argument)
[19:59] <LocutusOfBorg1> I use grab-merge, and dput, and debdiff to look to the output
[19:59] <LocutusOfBorg1> for sync I use syncpackage (well, I can't now), and requestsync
[19:59] <LocutusOfBorg1> I use backportpackage
[20:00] <LocutusOfBorg1> update-maintainer
[20:00] <mapreri> oh, last time I manually looked at all seeds :\
[20:00] <infinity> LocutusOfBorg1: FWIW, this application is a strong +1 from me, as long as you continue your trend of asking questions and being careful about your uploads.  Better to be inquisitive than to be wrong. ;)
[20:01] <LocutusOfBorg1> I think I'll start using pull-debian* checksymbols and something more, such as check-mir
[20:01] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks infinity, better safe than sorry :)
[20:01] <micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: are you aware of the release cycle in Ubuntu and the various freezes?
[20:02] <LocutusOfBorg1> micahg, completely https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
[20:02] <LocutusOfBorg1> :)
[20:02] <micahg> :)
[20:02]  * LocutusOfBorg1 also breaks freezes each time, e.g. for virtualbox
[20:02]  * LocutusOfBorg1 because kernel is uploaded after the freeze, and vbox ships a kernel module :)
[20:04] <micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: do you just upload (or request sponsorship), or do you have to do something else before you can upload a new major version after feature freeze?
[20:04] <LocutusOfBorg1> check reverse-dependencies, I shouldn't start a transition
[20:04] <LocutusOfBorg1> and for sure it needs to migrate from proposed, so each thing that can prevent migration should be avoided/fixed
[20:05] <LocutusOfBorg1> and check new features carefully for possible breaks
[20:05] <cyphermox_> I gotta go now, my vote would be +1 :)
[20:05] <cyphermox_> see you all later!
[20:05] <LocutusOfBorg1> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/can-utils/+bug/1290253
[20:05] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks cyphermox
[20:05] <LocutusOfBorg1> e.g. this page is so important for me http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/xenial/update_excuses.html
[20:06] <micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: what's the 'Ffe' part in the bug?
[20:06] <LocutusOfBorg1> feature freeze exception, something I like to ask ;)
[20:07] <micahg> right, that's the piece I was getting at :0
[20:07] <micahg> :)
[20:07] <LocutusOfBorg1> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ettercap/+bug/1382848 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ettercap/+bug/1161001
[20:08] <micahg> ok, if there's no more questions, I'll start the vote
[20:09] <micahg> #vote Gianfranco Costamagna for MOTU
[20:09] <meetingology> Please vote on: Gianfranco Costamagna for MOTU
[20:09] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:09] <infinity> +1
[20:09] <meetingology> +1 received from infinity
[20:10] <stgraber> +1
[20:10] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[20:10] <bdmurray> +1
[20:10] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[20:11] <micahg> +1
[20:11] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[20:12] <xnox> +1
[20:12] <meetingology> +1 received from xnox
[20:12] <xnox> and cyphermox is probably gone now.
[20:12] <micahg> #endvote
[20:12] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Gianfranco Costamagna for MOTU
[20:12] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:12] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:12] <micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: congrats
[20:12] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks :) [21:05:15] <cyphermox_> I gotta go now, my vote would be +1 :)
[20:12] <mapreri> :) congrats mate ;)
[20:12] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks you all :D
[20:13] <micahg> #topic AOB
[20:13] <micahg> #info next chair is infinity
[20:14] <xnox> there was a poke that there will be members expiring from dmb.
[20:14] <micahg> yep
[20:14] <micahg> #info DMB election for 3 seats soon
[20:14] <micahg> any volunteers to run it?
[20:14] <xnox> one of which is I, and I shall not be nominating myself to run in the election.
[20:14] <xnox> just thought to let you all know.
[20:14] <infinity> xnox: Sounds like you just nominated yourself to run the election itself, then, so you can replace yourself. :P
[20:15] <xnox> infinity, damn, i guess i do qualify to be a returning officer *sigh*
[20:15] <xnox> also infinity you are extra special - your expiry term is out of sync with everybody else.
[20:16] <micahg> yeah, I think that was a mistake
[20:16] <xnox> i wonder if that's a mistake and e.g. you should be either aligned to the 2016 or the 2017 cycles.
[20:16] <micahg> should be 2017
[20:16] <infinity> That was because I was in some special by-election to replace ScottK, wasn't I?
[20:16] <micahg> yep
[20:16] <micahg> and he had just been elected that year
[20:16] <micahg> *re-elected
[20:16] <xnox> infinity, yes you are special =)
[20:17]  * infinity is a pretty, pretty snowflake.
[20:17] <micahg> ok, we'll find a victI^Wvolunteer to run the election at the next meeting
[20:18] <micahg> anything else?
[20:18] <micahg> #endmeeting
[20:18] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  4 20:18:18 2016 UTC.
[20:18] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-04-19.06.moin.txt
[20:18] <xnox> that's it from me, i shall go back to hanging curtains.
[20:18] <micahg> thanks all
[20:18] <xnox> tah
[20:18] <infinity> Ta.
[20:18] <xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, and do make that boost-mpi-source1.58 upload =)
[20:18] <xnox> now that you can.
[20:19] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks xnox I just need to followup with some permission granting, not sure about the workflow, but I think I'll take some days to learn the process
[20:19] <LocutusOfBorg1> I don't like newbie mistakes :D
[20:19] <xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, yeap, no problem =) launchpad is good at rejecting really bad things =)
[20:19] <LocutusOfBorg1> :D
[20:19] <LocutusOfBorg1> I know fortunately