[00:09] krabador, I think easiest would be setting it in router? [00:11] muka, on ubuntu touch i mean [00:14] never tried it but try googling something like ubuntu static ip [00:15] not sure if it would work [00:24] does ubuntu touch have a real linux kernel? [00:26] like the same full fledged you get with ubuntu desktop [00:47] stary-101, kinda [00:47] as i understand it , it's a stripped linux kernal [00:47] stary-101, it's a linux kernel with patches to support the device [00:47] kernel [00:47] what specifically you after? [00:48] running software i run on my desktop on the phone [00:48] i use ubuntu desktop [00:48] such as? [00:48] the kernel isn't the issue here usually [00:49] it's the lack of X11 [00:49] and the fact desktop apps aren't optimised for touch screens [00:49] what desktop manager does it use [00:49] It's Unity 8 / Mir [00:50] and compiled for ARM i assume [00:50] the packages [00:50] yes [00:50] we have a fork of the main ubuntu arm archive [00:50] so in theory if i can compile my program for ARM [00:50] sure [00:50] without a gui, i should run it on ubuntu touch [00:50] whether it runs or not is another matter, depends what dependencies it needs [00:51] ow yeah of course [00:51] we do build all kinds of things for / on ubuntu phone [00:51] does it support javascript for a gui? [00:52] i seem to have read you can make html5 and js for apps [00:52] you can, yes [00:52] cool [00:52] qml, html5.. some apps are c++ [00:52] nodejs? [00:53] we also have python & java apps [00:53] sure [00:53] i think so :) [00:54] why is there no iso, i can run on my phone? [00:55] because arm hardware doesn't work like pc x86 hardware [00:56] you have to port ubuntu to the device [00:56] stary-101: unfortunately phones aren't really standardised like desktop systems, so each phone needs an individual port, this page gives details on phones for which there are ports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices [00:56] because arm [00:57] hmz [00:57] that's too bad [00:57] welcome to arm [00:57] what device do you have? [00:57] hahaha [00:57] s4 [00:58] and i see the device has been abandoned [00:58] it's certainly a candidate [00:58] that someone could update the port - or re-do it [00:58] it's better specced than some devices we've seen ports for [00:59] wouldn't in theory : that you can compile a linux kernel for a device [00:59] for that type of phone [00:59] thats part of it, yeah [00:59] these installs are precompiled linux kernels right [01:00] specifically for that model [01:00] yes [01:00] before the linux kernel is loaded, the boot loader is loaded [01:00] that loads the kernel [01:01] and since the boatloader is just software, wouldn't it be possible to check the device, before the kernel is loaded [01:02] but the specific kernel version needs building for that device [01:03] so compiling the kernel before it is loaded is not possible? [01:03] no [01:03] e.g. the bq e4.5 is 3.4.67 with drivers for the mediatek SoC, the kernel for the OnePlus One is 3.4 with drivers for the Qualcomm SoC etc [01:03] those are modules correct? [01:04] each device differs, even two devices from the same mfr with similar device names / numbers have different kernels [01:04] the SoC is the chip, "System On Chip" - CPU and other bits and bobs [01:04] most likely they are proprietary blobs [01:04] often comes with 3d / bluetooth / wifi / GSM etc [01:04] and yes, most of which have blobs for drivers. [01:04] so there wouldn't be a way to have a unified software that checks the hardware [01:05] before deciding to load which one [01:05] not on arm [01:05] not yet [01:06] maybe in 2 years or more [01:06] like a bios [01:06] sortof [01:06] still no. [01:06] stary-101: no BIOS on arm, which is a massive pain [01:07] so i'm i right to assume, the default boatloader on a linux device [01:07] is also different with every model [01:07] yes [01:07] and also proprietary, usually [01:08] hm [01:09] so what is needed is a instruction set that is common like x86 [01:10] lots of things are needed [01:10] some of which are under discussion or development [01:10] but not ready yet [01:10] stary-101: there's also the complication of the RIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Interface_Layer which seems to be where most ports fail [01:11] might try the Fairphone https://www.fairphone.com/ [01:11] is this because of vendor lock in [01:11] stary-101: ARM is just a mess [01:12] stary-101: then phone manufacturers add another layer of mess [01:12] unlike x86, there isn't just "x86" and "amd64", there's a ton of specifications set out by ARM (the company) [01:12] right [01:12] and each silicon manufacturer makes chips which follow those various specs [01:13] see raspberry pi, pi 2 for a simple example. one is armv6, the other is armv7 [01:13] so in theory, if there were a x86-arm instruction set, this would mean, unified kernel? [01:13] the instruction set is well defined, that's not the problem [01:14] binary blobs for drivers is one big one [01:14] stary-101: the instruction set isn't the issue [01:14] lack of ACPI type things is another [01:14] device discovery is missing in arm [01:14] is the many different configurations the manufactures use [01:14] with different hardware components [01:14] *it's [01:15] (just trying to wrap my head around all of this :) ) [01:15] stary-101: and, on phones, the interface to the completely separate and proprietary operating system running in the radio layer [01:15] yeah, all phones have effectively two operating systems [01:15] mcphail: wouldn't that layer still be higher level than the kernel [01:15] one that you see, that you interact with, and a completely separate one you never see [01:16] not higher, side by side [01:16] stary-101: nothing to do with the kernel [01:16] different cpu [01:16] like having two computers in one case. [01:16] hm [01:16] wth? [01:16] one being very tiny and dedicated to one task - dealing with radio communications [01:16] a radio processor? [01:16] yeah [01:17] baseband processor [01:17] so there is a seperate firmware for the radio processor [01:17] which interacts with the main os [01:17] yeah [01:17] stary-101: I hope, one day, there will be a "one-click" way to build Ubuntu for any device which has a Cyanogenmod port, stealing the work which has already been done by their porters [01:17] would love that too [01:17] that is what made linux big [01:17] the porting guide could then become sentient and go out finding devices to port [01:17] and port them [01:17] running it on any computer at home [01:17] whether the owner wants it or not [01:17] ha! [01:17] i disagree [01:18] android is way bigger than any linux distro [01:18] i think the server world is still bigger [01:18] isn't it? [01:18] depends how you define size [01:18] number of activated android handsets per day is a scary number [01:19] 1.5 million _per_ _day_ last number I saw [01:19] popey: more than the 1 billion Ubuntu users ;p [01:19] yeah but what i mean is that , when linus himself went out and bought unix [01:19] nearly [01:19] he decided to make something that can run for everyone right [01:19] sure, and my kids and older relatives can use android [01:20] which has linux under it [01:20] yes [01:20] so he kinda succeeeded there [01:26] on another note [01:27] you think steamos is going to change gaming for ubuntu [01:27] or linux in general [01:27] who knows [01:27] I certainly have way more games on my Linux machine now than I did 3 years ago [01:27] so "yay" [01:28] yeah because game engines are now being designed with linux in mind [01:29] funny thing , 14 years ago i met someone who said that linux is going to be big [01:29] way before android of course [01:30] i thought he was mad [01:30] so i didn't spend my time on it, but just tested a few distros [01:30] way back then, the interfaces were horrible [01:31] but alas, we are here today [01:32] Yeah, first time I heard about Linux I thought the guy was demented [01:32] Who wants _that_!? [01:32] Shows how wrong you can be [01:33] i still think that program installation on linux [01:33] can be way more user friendly [01:34] linux pointed that out not too long ago, that , that needs to be worked on [01:34] *linus [01:35] something unified [01:35] the standard installation package for linux [01:35] as simple as an exe or dmg [01:35] wouldn't that be something [01:36] exe is noob-friendly, as is dmg, tar not so much [01:37] People don't install tarballs on ubuntu phone :) [01:37] i just mean linux in general [01:38] right [01:38] on android it's even more noob-friendly than exe [01:38] it's 2016, people use package managers [01:38] new users to linux expect to install files from the web [01:39] i agree that using a package manager is friendly [01:39] but installing software from the web, is what people expect [01:41] do you agree? [01:41] * popey shrugs [01:41] It appears to be my bed time. nn [01:42] ok good night [01:42] do you mean untrusted apps from anywhere? [01:42] or just generally downloadable apps [01:42] generally downloadable apps [01:43] as general as possible [01:43] like an exe or dmg [01:43] Linspire already tried the "install from web" approach with linux and CNR, didn't go over that well [01:43] sure. thats why there are app stores [01:44] app stores yes, but what if you just made a program, and represented it on your website [01:44] for mac, i can just download the dmg, for windows, the exe [01:44] then you mean untrusted apps [01:45] well my former referencing was to linus who said there is no common software package for linux in general [01:45] linux has package mangaer that do that. [01:45] but what if i have an installtion file i wanted to send to you [01:45] linux has 3 generally - rpm, deb and tgz [01:46] right [01:46] which one would you say is the most user friendly [01:46] click on it in gui filemanager will open/install [01:46] its not hte file that makes it user friendly, it's the package manager === JoseeAntonioR is now known as jose [01:47] what about a unified solution? [01:47] why does there need to be one? [01:47] wouldn't it be the most friendly way? [01:47] just like theres not just one gui for linux [01:48] like all versions of windows use mainly .exe, all mac versions use dmg [01:48] right! [01:48] those file types are built around just one company each [01:48] linux is many companies [01:49] but used by billions [01:49] of use cases [01:49] I dont see the problem [01:50] each distribution has its own way of installing apps [01:50] let's say there is no .deb or rpm just a tgz file of an application [01:51] is tgz noob-friendly? [01:51] you can't install an exe on mac or a dmg on windows [01:51] i know, but the kernel is completely different in those cases [01:51] its not the file that make it user friendly, it that app handler [01:51] if you use a tgz based distro, the app handler can pop up the app installer [01:52] one simple example [01:53] tgz files under linux are installed through extracting, configure, make, make install [01:53] right? [01:53] not necessarily [01:54] Also, nobody does that. It's 2016, not 1999 [01:54] tgz files can contain anything. whether it's the source code to make the app, or whether it contains the binaries, or anything else, is unknown until you extract it [01:54] let's say i am a linux noob [01:54] popey: gentoo does that, I believe :) [01:54] and i get a tgz file [01:54] Again, 2016 :) [01:54] You ask an expert [01:55] Just like you would if you were a windows noob [01:55] or mac noob [01:55] ...also, as for installing apps onto Ubunto from web... isn't there still https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/ ... ? [01:55] and they solve your problem though direct help and education [01:55] no if i get a dmg or exe i can just install it mostly [01:55] i don't need to ask an expert [01:55] stary-101, you're re-making the same point over and over for an hour now [01:56] _you_ might not need to ask an expert [01:56] my mum would [01:56] forget it then [01:56] my mother in law has a mac, never installed anything [01:57] * mcphail coughs, a rather odd sound which resembles "#ubuntu-offtopic or ##linux" [01:58] ill give you the video were linus adresses his frustration with the different installation methods for distro's [01:59] stary-101: would you be kind enough to move this discussion elsewhere? It is offtopic in this channel [02:00] i don't agree it's off topic were are talking about the fundemental core sofware that ubuntu is based upon, as is ubuntu touch [02:01] but for the sake of it, yeah why not [02:01] Thank you [02:03] ill skip this channel when talking about anything related to the kernel, and mostly talk about specific ubuntu touch related topics [02:03] which you the best of luck [02:03] wish [02:03] I think Linus should stick to making the kernel better... and more unified [02:24] what is going on here [02:25] lol was that studio again [02:30] Most likely. Same modus operandi [02:50] indeed === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun [05:50] hello fellas and fellows [05:50] I am looking for a chat buddy to help me with an issue [05:51] I am looking for a chat buddy to help me with an issue [05:52] i have an RCS Viking PRO 10 and want to install Ubuntu Touch. How can I kno if an install on this device will be successfull? [05:53] *RCA [05:54] Is there no one in this room? [06:32] I'm here [06:33] I guess the measure of success is booting into ubuntu touch :) [06:33] hmm I guess he left/ [06:34] bummer.. web media player stops playing when phone display blanks :( [06:48] we're still waiting for the future where issues related to app lifecycle management have solutions [06:49] meanwhile, power users tend to install openstore + tweakgeek so they can allow background running of eg terminal + whatever they want [06:51] ahh... heh [06:56] I would think background audio from web would be rather important use case [07:01] media player doesnt stream either... === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [07:14] much better [07:20] popey: In an Ubuntu Phone Community Q&A it was mentioned that "scopes are about to get a lot better". Is that coming soon? Is it clear which APIs will be added? [07:20] popey: this was from probably 2 months ago, IIRC [07:41] good morning [08:29] how do i fix the" no rule to make target for dtbtool" error ? === adeen-s_ is now known as adeen-s [10:00] Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Skeptics Day! 😃 === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [10:18] Morning JamesTait, I don't believe that today is Skeptics day! :P :D === tsdgeos_ is now known as tsdgeos [10:20] That's the spirit, robin-hero! [10:23] :D === _salem is now known as salem_ === JMulholland_ is now known as JMulholland === salem_ is now known as _salem [13:20] hmm, my flo is in a reboot loop since todays rc-proposed update [13:20] ah, now it came up after 8 reboots (5 of them evenb without any splash after the google logo) === ecloud_wfh is now known as ecloud [13:24] ogra_, that's not good! [13:24] ogra_, arale seems fine [13:25] krillin too [13:29] Hello, i have this problem with MultiRom (Custom for Ubuntu Touch OnePlus ONE) http://i.imgur.com/kRbMBz9.jpg i read this guide https://wiki.ubports.com/w/OnePlus_One#How_to_install_Ubuntu_Touch_using_MultiRom === mvo__ is now known as mvo === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk === rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3 [14:05] you can help me to install Ubuntu Touch in OnePlus One? [14:05] With dualboot [14:06] popey, do you have oneplus one [14:08] mariogrip: ^^ JHOSMAN is trying to install opo with multirom [14:10] JHOSMAN: https://wiki.ubports.com/w/OnePlus_One#How_to_install_Ubuntu_Touch_using_MultiRom [14:10] multirom from Google Play says "This divice no compatible" dobey [14:11] oh, is the cache full? === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader [14:12] do you have adb? [14:12] i don't have an opo, nor use android, so i can't really help :) [14:12] or a terminal app downloaded? [14:13] mariogrip: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/26/how-to-install-ubuntu-touch-via-multirom/1 [14:13] mariogrip: no, cache no full, Although, I could tell as I check? [14:14] mariogrip: adb? why? [14:14] pmcgowan, i do [14:14] JHOSMAN: With adb you can use adb shell to get terminal [14:14] JHOSMAN: but, if you have a terminal app that will work to [14:14] i dont do dual boot tho, and mariogrip is the right guy :) [14:15] JHOSMAN: we need to check if cache is full, and if it's mounted at all [14:17] mariogrip: yes im adb shell [14:17] first try ls -la [14:17] ls -la /cache [14:20] mariogrip: http://i.imgur.com/sx6Q3kb.png [14:22] oh, sorry i ment -lh [14:23] ls -lh /cache [14:23] but, just wipe cache [14:23] ls: Unknown option '-h'. Aborting. === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun [14:25] JHOSMAN: for me it looks like cache might be full, can you try to wipe cache? [14:26] mariogrip: can you give me a command from adb? (btw I have the 64GB version and have plenty of room) [14:27] just do rm -r /cache/* [14:27] & [14:29] ok no? [14:29] now? [14:30] then try multirom again === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [14:31] reboot :D [14:31] did it work? [14:31] Injecting boot image [14:32] yey :) [14:32] You should edit the Wiki to keep that in mind, I was really lost. [14:33] JHOSMAN: Yeah, i'll do that. i'm working on a new wiki, so I'll make sure to add that in [14:33] my phone no boot now! :E [14:33] black screen [14:35] log? [14:35] no no log [14:36] i reboot now, watiing... [14:37] does mulitrom work, where you can switch between android and ubuntu? or nothing works? [14:39] Android does not start, was just installing MultiROM. Android screen goes black. [14:39] $ adb shell error: device not found [14:39] android not start [14:39] what rom did you use? [14:39] did you install correct kernel?? [14:39] One OnePlus buttons are on light [14:40] I use OxigenOS (opo rom oficial) [14:40] yes i installthe correct kernel 5.0.x [14:41] but did multirom work? did you see a screen like this? http://i.imgur.com/vUYXIiz.png [14:41] no [14:42] in boot only black screen [14:42] OxygenOS no boot [14:42] ok, then we will just flash back to oxygen kernel === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [14:44] You can help me? :( [14:44] JHOSMAN: Yes [14:44] :) [14:47] a moment [14:47] Multirrom appears [14:48] JHOSMAN: Does android work now then? [14:48] no [14:49] Im gonna find the oxygen kernel [14:49] mariogrip: I disconnected the USB cable, restart the phone and MultiBoot appeared, I selected Android, but Android does not start. On top of that came the option of Ubuntu. [14:49] ok I waitting oxigen Kernel [14:49] :) [14:50] I think you can document a lot with this case :) :P [14:53] jup :P [14:54] try flashing this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98135991/multirom/multirom_uninstaller.zip [14:54] using recovery [14:59] JHOSMAN: did that work? [15:00] im working :) [15:01] adb push multirom_uninstaller.zip /sdcard [15:01] mdeslaur: mterry: do you guys remember why we don't have a keyring on the phone? Was it just because we didn't use PAM originally? [15:02] and flashing! [15:02] im reboot [15:02] tedg, we started using PAM relatively quickly... But it's true we did have a very initial gap [15:03] Yeah, I just didn't know if the seed kinda got made in that gap. [15:03] tedg, but I think in general we didn't want to password prompts (for unlocking the keyring or whatever) [15:03] That doesn't happen with the PAM module, right? [15:04] tedg, general approach being to use services to proxy access to things rather than granting apps full access to passwords [15:04] tedg, oh sure you can unlock at login time. But then there's just open season on the passwords [15:04] tedg, I guess we're confined and all... [15:04] ok mariogrip , Android does not load, it stays on the logo OnePlus. now? [15:04] Sure, but a keyring would be more for services to store things encrypted instead of implementing the encryption themselves. [15:05] tedg, sounds like we're getting into tvoss territory [15:05] The specific use case here is storing network passwords for network manager. It wouldn't be for apps. [15:05] tedg, what for exactly? [15:06] Last thing we want is people implementing their own encryption :-) [15:06] can you reboot to recovery and send me last_kmsg - adb pull /proc/last_kmsg [15:06] tvoss: VPN [15:06] JHOSMAN: ^ [15:06] tedg: we didn't have keyring mediation to prevent one app from getting secrets for another app [15:06] mdeslaur: So for trusted services though, there wouldn't be an issue. [15:07] tedg: network manager doesn't use the keyring anyway, AFAIK [15:07] (well, at least for wifi stuff) [15:07] mdeslaur: I believe this is for VPN credentials [15:07] I was chatting with pete-woods about it, he might have more details there. [15:08] oh, for the vpn, yeah, it probably does [15:08] ~ # last_kmsg - adb pull /proc/last_kmsg /sbin/sh: last_kmsg: not found [15:08] tedg, okay, so we are talking about one trusted piece talking to another trusted piece [15:08] tedg: that's all I can think of, pam [15:08] tvoss: Correct [15:08] excuseme [15:09] tedg, so correct me if I'm wrong, but we own all the pieces of the puzzle, don't we? [15:09] I had suggested we just seed a keyring, but I wanted to make sure that was sane. [15:10] tvoss: Kinda, I think that the VPN plugins are the ones that want to use the fd.o DBus API for secrets. [15:10] tvoss: We write the command-and-control but the implementations are NM. [15:10] tedg, okay, but we still control the installed plugins, correct? [15:10] file no exist [15:10] bq aquaris E5 is compatible with multiboot? [15:11]