| mapreri | are NBS binaries removed regularly/automatically from the archive? /cc cjwatson | 12:24 |
|---|---|---|
| cjwatson | mapreri: semi-automatically - i.e. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html reports on them, we process the ones that don't have reverse-deps pretty frequently | 12:30 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: but the ones that have reverse-deps there need manual attention | 12:30 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: some of those may be false positives (recommends or alternatives-where-first-is-still-available), which are hard to deal with automatically | 12:30 |
| mapreri | cjwatson: i was looking because i removed pbuilder-uml yesterday, but I don't see it in the list (and britney complains about it). does it have to be in the release pocket? | 12:32 |
| mapreri | (which kinda defeats the purpose of that britney check, maybe) | 12:32 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: yes. there's a corner case in what you're thinking of, it's only a problem if a package goes through multiple versions in -proposed without migrating and one of the non-final versions has NBS binaries | 12:33 |
| cjwatson | that has no automatic report but every so often I go through excuses and work out what to remove ... | 12:33 |
| mapreri | well, this one hit proposed yesterday for the first time, before there was nothing in proposed. | 12:34 |
| cjwatson | though in this case ... yeah, not sure what's up there | 12:34 |
| cjwatson | probably an extra-weird corner case to do with arch: all vs. any | 12:34 |
| cjwatson | the whole business of -proposed being a partial suite makes things complicated in britney | 12:35 |
| mapreri | arch:all is so funny | 12:35 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: removed, anyway | 12:36 |
| mapreri | cool | 12:36 |
| mapreri | cjwatson: + do you confirm that what's keeping libpodofo out of release is the need of a transition for it? update_excuse is silent, but i learn out to read update_output... | 12:38 |
| mapreri | learnt* | 12:38 |
| mapreri | even if it seems to write stuff (and behave, maybe?) a bit differently than debian's britney | 12:39 |
| mapreri | seems like usrmerge might need some poking, btw. | 12:41 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: needs rebuilds of calibre, krename, and scribus, yes | 12:43 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: I believe usrmerge needs an initramfs-tools merge | 12:43 |
| cjwatson | mapreri: also coreutils | 12:44 |
| cjwatson | Conflicting with the current version of an Essential package isn't going to go well for it :-) | 12:44 |
| mapreri | oh. eheh :) | 12:45 |
| flexiondotorg | cyphermox, infinity I have an idea I'd like to discuss. | 13:14 |
| flexiondotorg | Not sure if it is feasible. | 13:14 |
| flexiondotorg | Need some wise heads to bounce ideas off. | 13:15 |
| LocutusOfBorg | In debian the libpng16 transition is mostly "done" I mean, we patched the sources except for a few build failures, and we are waiting for the release team to proceed | 13:57 |
| LocutusOfBorg | I did ~30 NMUs and they are pending, and I'm planning to merge ubuntu whenever possible | 13:57 |
| LocutusOfBorg | do you think we can arrange a transition for xenial? | 13:57 |
| cyphermox | flexiondotorg: shoot | 13:58 |
| flexiondotorg | Would it be possible to make another image for Ubuntu MATE that just use the ubuntu-mate-core meta-package? | 13:58 |
| flexiondotorg | I'd like to create an Ubuntu MATE Basic edition which is heavily stipped down. | 13:59 |
| flexiondotorg | cyphermox, ^ | 14:03 |
| apw | cjwatson, initramfs-tools merge, ugg | 14:32 |
| * apw looks at usrmerge | 14:33 | |
| apw | cjwatson, yes so it does, fun, i've got that merge on my list as soon as i get the previous version uploaded | 14:34 |
| === ginggs_ is now known as ginggs | ||
| === maclin1 is now known as maclin | ||
| === narindergupta is now known as narindergupta_aw | ||
| ginggs | hi, is there a reason we don't have ceres-solver in ubuntu ? https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ceres-solver I don't see it in the sync blacklist and it was uploaded to unstable at the end of november. | 18:26 |
| doko | ginggs, no idea, just synced | 18:45 |
| ginggs | doko, thanks | 18:46 |
| cjwatson | ginggs: The reason was that it was previously removed from Ubuntu as a consequence of a removal from Debian, and auto-sync defers all packages that have previously been removed for manual attention. | 18:53 |
| cjwatson | In this case I agree it was fine to reintroduce it. | 18:53 |
| ginggs | thanks, cjwatson, is there a list of these packages somewhere? | 18:54 |
| cjwatson | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/auto-sync/current.log | 18:55 |
| cjwatson | pretty raw form | 18:55 |
| cjwatson | doesn't divide down by reason, you need to read through it | 18:55 |
| doko | cjwatson, please could you build gradle using the gradle binaries from unstable? validated that it builds | 21:27 |
| flexiondotorg | cyphermox, Yo | 21:31 |
| cyphermox | flexiondotorg: hey | 21:50 |
| flexiondotorg | Hi | 21:50 |
| flexiondotorg | Back home now. | 21:50 |
| flexiondotorg | I was enquiring about the notion of creating an Ubuntu MATE Basic image. | 21:51 |
| flexiondotorg | Is that something the build system can accommodate? | 21:51 |
| cyphermox | flexiondotorg: in theory yes | 22:14 |
| cyphermox | flexiondotorg: what comes to mind is what level of simplification are you looking at? because we already have ubuntu-core / ubuntu-server which can be pretty minimal | 22:15 |
| flexiondotorg | cyphermox, Basically an Ubuntu MATE that is "built" using just the ubuntu-mate-core meta package. | 22:16 |
| cyphermox | at the point where you're looking at a command-line setup, I start to have a hard time how you can both do a minimal setup and a branded one | 22:16 |
| flexiondotorg | So still Ubuntu MATE, with desktop. But with much of the bundled applications removed. | 22:16 |
| flexiondotorg | There is a demand for this for people to make bespoke setups for stuff like Steam or Kodi or whatever. | 22:17 |
| * xnox uploaded something into ubuntu, instead of ppa =( | 22:18 | |
| cyphermox | yeah, I can picture the kiosk idea to some degree | 22:18 |
| xnox | nodejs - 4.2.6~dfsg-1ubuntu3 | 22:18 |
| xnox | i did block-proposed, which is good enough. | 22:20 |
| doko | mdeslaur, ^^^ | 22:21 |
| xnox | block 1537922 | 22:21 |
| xnox | bug 1537922 | 22:21 |
| ubot5 | bug 1537922 in nodejs (Ubuntu) "nodejs 4.2.6~dfsg-1ubuntu3 was meant to go into ppa; remove from proposed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1537922 | 22:21 |
| flexiondotorg | cyphermox, So how can I progress this? | 22:28 |
| infinity | flexiondotorg: To be fair, starting from a desktop/live installer ISO isn't how I'd build a bespoke kiosk image, I'm not sure many would. | 22:29 |
| knome | cyphermox, fwiw, the xubuntu team has a similar effort underway. | 22:29 |
| infinity | flexiondotorg: Doing a d-i netboot and then adding the packages you want would be a more common approach. | 22:29 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, I'm not planning to make a kiosk image. | 22:30 |
| knome | infinity, since the "core" name seems to be the blocker for some people, would you think "base" would be more approachable for them? | 22:30 |
| flexiondotorg | What the UBuntu MATE community are asking for a minimal desktop. | 22:30 |
| infinity | flexiondotorg: Well, whatever "bespoke setups" people might have. | 22:30 |
| cyphermox | knome: flexiondotorg: I'm not sure how to deal with this. My understanding is that new flavours would have to go through TB approval, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as a new flavor or as a JFDI case. | 22:30 |
| flexiondotorg | People can then use it as a "base" to make their own thing. | 22:31 |
| flexiondotorg | cyphermox, Is this not is the same category as the alternate image for Lubuntu? | 22:31 |
| cyphermox | (I'm leaning towards jfdi but hey) | 22:31 |
| knome | flexiondotorg, we can help with the technical side | 22:31 |
| knome | or, the social request side, or whatever | 22:32 |
| flexiondotorg | knome, Thanks. | 22:32 |
| cyphermox | flexiondotorg: technically it's not much more than having a seed and making an image with that seed | 22:32 |
| knome | infinity, what flexiondotorg is proposing is basically the same as the "xubuntu core" image | 22:32 |
| infinity | knome: I would certainly prefer to see people stop using "core" for this, but I'm more trying to understand the use-cases. | 22:32 |
| infinity | knome: And yes, I know what you're both been proposing. :P | 22:32 |
| knome | for us, the usecase is that not all people want firefox, thunderbird and libreoffice | 22:32 |
| knome | (and a lot more) | 22:33 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, OK so if we go with -base (for example) are there any technical reasons blocking this? | 22:33 |
| knome | so we want to offer a smaller image for them so they can save bandwidth and installation time | 22:33 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, What knome said. Same from Ubuntu MATE. | 22:33 |
| knome | the use cases are endless | 22:33 |
| infinity | Okay, but in both cases, this is targetted to end users? | 22:33 |
| flexiondotorg | There is a large user group who what to currate their own system. | 22:33 |
| knome | for us, yes, totally | 22:33 |
| knome | advanced end users | 22:34 |
| flexiondotorg | Sort of "make your own adventure". | 22:34 |
| knome | we will make sure the "core" image is working though, eg. not just stripping packages like headless chicken | 22:34 |
| flexiondotorg | Again, what knome said. | 22:34 |
| infinity | Kay. I think I misread flexiondotorg originally, feeling like this was targettted at people doing custom images, and a live ISO is a horrible starting point for third parties to customize images. | 22:34 |
| flexiondotorg | Advanced/experienced users. | 22:34 |
| knome | for us, there might be some replacements for some packages too | 22:34 |
| flexiondotorg | For Ubuntu MATE it is simply a build from ubuntu-mate-core. | 22:35 |
| knome | i don't know if anybody in our team has thought about creating customized images from that image, but i guess it helps with that too | 22:35 |
| flexiondotorg | He says "simply" assuming this is indeed simple. | 22:35 |
| knome | flexiondotorg, we have a xubuntu-core task set up already. | 22:36 |
| knome | flexiondotorg, so even in that regard, the same as you | 22:36 |
| knome | now we basically just want an image for that task. | 22:36 |
| infinity | It's relatively simple, other than exploding your QA matrix. | 22:36 |
| flocculant | infinity: our 'core' lives on the tracker already in a basic state | 22:37 |
| flocculant | all *I'm* waiting for now is it to be a daily build - so I can actually ask people to test it | 22:37 |
| flexiondotorg | I have a small team who have said they will test a "base" image. | 22:37 |
| flocculant | http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/105604/testcases | 22:38 |
| knome | exactly what flocculant said. we want it to start running in the dailies "officially" | 22:38 |
| knome | (everything else is prepared for us, except for the merge...) | 22:38 |
| infinity | So, before we have an explosion of things named core, could we maybe all agree on consistent branding for "a flavour without all the extra desktop applications"? :P | 22:38 |
| flocculant | :) | 22:39 |
| knome | infinity, i've got an "ack" for being okay with "base", if the "core" name REALLY is the blocker | 22:39 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, I "think" Xubuntu and UBuntu MATE can agree on "base". I'm certainly OK with that. | 22:39 |
| knome | (we want this to progress too, but we don't want desktop/dvd) | 22:39 |
| flocculant | 2 of our release team would ack that - pretty sure the other one would too | 22:39 |
| infinity | knome: I've said before that I wouldn't block on "core" in your case, but I'm less thrilled about it, the more people follow in your footsteps. :P | 22:39 |
| knome | (as was previously suggested by a few people) | 22:39 |
| knome | infinity, i understand and remember you said that | 22:39 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, So is "base" agreeable from your point of view? | 22:40 |
| knome | core is our #1 bet, because we've already advertised it as that on our website and more, but if the cd image doesn't approve that, then we'll live with "base" | 22:40 |
| infinity | Something like "base" or "basic" would be fine. | 22:40 |
| knome | *cd image team | 22:40 |
| infinity | And you could maybe rebrant the other ISO as "Full" or something, to be descriptive. | 22:40 |
| knome | infinity, as you probably can imagine, we don't want to do another merge proposal with the new "base" name unless it's really ok with the cd image team | 22:41 |
| infinity | So people get an idea that ISO 1 has a basic setup, ISO 2 is what you want to download for gandpa so he doesn't have to hunt for a web browser or word processor after install. | 22:41 |
| knome | yes, that's one option | 22:41 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, Can do. | 22:41 |
| knome | the downside of that is we need to rename our main ISO at that point | 22:42 |
| flocculant | not completely sold on renaming what we currently have tbh | 22:42 |
| knome | but i guess you don't mind if it's base/desktop? | 22:42 |
| infinity | Well, not in the machinery or anything, just in pretty charts on websites. | 22:42 |
| knome | yeah, pretty charts are pretty charts | 22:42 |
| flocculant | if the new one is -base then it stands to reason the bigger download isn't base imo | 22:42 |
| flexiondotorg | And already have the -desktop suffix. | 22:42 |
| knome | infinity, so... how do we go from here? | 22:43 |
| infinity | I like "basic" over "base", if we're bikeshedding. We're describing a flavour of an OS, not a chunk of it. | 22:43 |
| infinity | So, an adjective is better. | 22:43 |
| infinity | But I'll be happy with either of those, if you two agree. | 22:43 |
| knome | in my mind, basic refers to being "simple", or not the "premium" version, so i prefer "base" | 22:43 |
| knome | (besides, i would still consider our desktop image the "basic" (or regular) image) | 22:44 |
| infinity | Yeah, fair enough on the basic != premium. I think that's why I suggested "light" or "minimal" last year. | 22:44 |
| flocculant | infinity: in simple terms for me - our main image is stuff added to the base image iirc now | 22:44 |
| knome | minimal has the potential to be messed up with the mini ISO again, so not that | 22:45 |
| infinity | I don't think so, TBH. | 22:45 |
| knome | (and xubuntu core is not really "minimal") | 22:45 |
| infinity | We don't promote the mini ISO in any way, only advanced users even know they exist. | 22:45 |
| knome | and for xubuntu, the word "light" is a red light, because we have been previously targeting low-end machines | 22:45 |
| knome | (which need a "light" OS) | 22:46 |
| infinity | But yeah, I could live with base, if you two like that best out of the non-core options. | 22:46 |
| knome | so i would say we want to avoid that too | 22:46 |
| knome | flexiondotorg, please ack once more that you are fine with "base" | 22:46 |
| knome | ^ we are | 22:46 |
| flexiondotorg | I am fine to "base". | 22:46 |
| knome | great! | 22:46 |
| infinity | I would definitely recommend you both do some Microsoft-style charts on your websites to tell people the difference. | 22:47 |
| knome | infinity, do you need to run this by other cd image members, or are you ready to merge? | 22:47 |
| knome | infinity, i'll pass on that to our marketing team | 22:47 |
| infinity | "You get all this great stuff, plus a web browser, office suite, etc preinstalled". | 22:47 |
| knome | wait, i'm on that team | 22:47 |
| infinity | Cause, yay confusing. | 22:47 |
| * knome facepalms | 22:47 | |
| knome | ;) | 22:47 |
| infinity | Hahaha. | 22:47 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, Ubuntu MATE will do that. | 22:47 |
| * flocculant is off now - night all | 22:47 | |
| knome | infinity, we'll likely do it the other way, but yeah, marketing semantics | 22:47 |
| infinity | knome: Anyhow, yeah, if we s/core/base/ across the board, I think I'll be happy revisiting your MP. I haven't read it in a while to remember if it was otherwise okay, but I don't recall it being awful. | 22:48 |
| knome | i don't think there is anything else | 22:48 |
| knome | when can we expect to hear from you about the name? | 22:48 |
| infinity | You two agreed, I'm fine with the name now. | 22:48 |
| infinity | So, you've heard from me. | 22:48 |
| infinity | It's more about me finding a bit of time for a final review and merge. | 22:49 |
| knome | ok, | 22:49 |
| knome | so should i ask Unit193, who proposed the merge, to add you as another reviewer? | 22:49 |
| infinity | base has no conflicts with other products, and bonus points if we (in)formally decide that this is what we call flavours with fewer bits installed. | 22:49 |
| infinity | I'm a fan of consistency where we can get it. | 22:49 |
| knome | i'll applaud for consistency too. | 22:49 |
| flexiondotorg | +1 | 22:49 |
| infinity | knome: I'm in the team that's proposed as a reviewer, I'm sure, but a fresh pointer to the MP itself wouldn't hurt. | 22:50 |
| knome | infinity, slangasek claimed the review, so you aren't... but here it is: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167 | 22:50 |
| infinity | knome: Right. This'll need some fixing up for name change proposals. | 22:52 |
| knome | infinity, acknowledge, but we are not willing to do that unless we can be certain that the new name is okay. | 22:52 |
| knome | infinity, as you can probably imagine... | 22:52 |
| infinity | knome: And I might still agree with slangasek that this shouldn't be whole new projects, but types (like desktop/dvd), which is a transparent thing to the end user, we can name the ISOs and label the webpages however we want. | 22:52 |
| knome | tbh, i don't understand most of the technicalities here, i'm mediating between the two parties to get this done :) | 22:53 |
| infinity | Just from a POV of backend machinery and paperwork, it makes more sense for them to be subtypes of "xubuntu" rather than whole new projects. | 22:53 |
| infinity | Yeah, that's cool. | 22:53 |
| Ukikie | Yeah I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it is now, just not using the 'dvd' one. | 22:53 |
| infinity | I'm hip deep in other work right now, can you set yourself a reminder to yell at me about this near the end of the week? | 22:54 |
| infinity | Oh, indeed, it just created a new type. | 22:54 |
| knome | infinity, ACK. | 22:54 |
| infinity | I didn't read the MP, just the comments. :P | 22:54 |
| knome | thin the comment was about the earlier revision | 22:54 |
| infinity | So, we could just make a "base" type instead, doesn't really bug me. | 22:54 |
| knome | then we updated the MP | 22:54 |
| knome | now we want to make sure we don't do more work unless we know it will be the last time we change this | 22:55 |
| infinity | Ahh, no, it's still a different project in there. | 22:56 |
| infinity | So, it's a different project *and* a new type. | 22:56 |
| infinity | Which doesn't make much sense. | 22:56 |
| infinity | But yeah, poke me violently on Thurs/Fri, and we'll get this moving for realz this time. | 22:57 |
| knome | infinity, i'll poke related people | 22:57 |
| knome | thanks! | 22:57 |
| knome | we'll try to help mate get their stuff in line before that too, so you can kill two birds with one stone | 22:58 |
| flexiondotorg | infinity, cyphermox Thanks for helping with this. | 23:05 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!