[19:13] <arosales> fabrice: jrwren: re https://code.launchpad.net/~marcoceppi/juju-quickstart/recommend-juju/+merge/283745
[19:14] <arosales> and looking at quickstart as it is today @ https://jujucharms.com/get-started
[19:14] <arosales> should we also add python-software-properties to recommends?
[19:15] <arosales> also once the updated packaging is available in juju:stable ppa we should update instructions on this page.
[19:15] <arosales> this = https://jujucharms.com/get-started
[19:15] <arosales> marcoceppi: ^ fyi
[19:18] <jrwren> arosales: there is a catch-22, or dependency cycle there which would mean adding the recommends is a no-op as the python-software-properties from recommends must have already been installed for the add-apt-repository to be used for juju-quickstart to be installed and its dependencies and recommends considered.
[19:20] <arosales> jrwren: ugh
[19:20] <jrwren> arosales: :)
[19:21] <arosales> well I guess that answers that question, but it does sound that post https://code.launchpad.net/~marcoceppi/juju-quickstart/recommend-juju/+merge/283745 being available in juju:stable we can update the install line to just be quickstart
[19:22] <jrwren> arosales: yes, I agree.
[19:24] <jrwren> arosales: sounds like ya'll are trying to optimize those install commands?  I know the first command is a noop on all our cloud-images.  add-apt-repository is there OOTB
[19:25] <jrwren> arosales: and in vivid+ add-apt-repository has an option to do the apt-get update automatically, so on vivid+ it could be `sudo add-apt-repository -u ppa:juju/stable ; sudo apt-get install juju-quickstart`
[19:38] <arosales> jrwren: ya, working to improve that first user experience
[19:39] <arosales> jrwren: since this is the client I would have to see what the default desktop behaviour is rather than the cloud image
[19:39] <arosales> but I think we should go with the least common denonminator
[19:43] <jrwren> arosales: right. I think LCD is why its 4 commands right now, because it works on precise, trusty, utopic, vivid, wily, xenial
[19:45] <arosales> what is LCD?
[19:46] <arosales> jrwren: ^
[19:46] <jrwren> lowest common denominator
[19:46] <rick_h_> yes, because lxc uses cloud images 
[19:47] <rick_h_> so there's the extra step for those bare installs
[19:48] <arosales> I guess we could have folks using LXC for their client . . .
[19:48] <jrwren> rick_h_: surprisingly, its the other way around.  desktop image doesn't include the command line tools, because one should be using the gui!
[19:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: hah
[19:49] <arosales> seems most folks would be in kvm, vbox, or native
[19:49] <rick_h_> jrwren: gotcha, I recall the cloud images not having python-software-properties and the like in lxc setups
[19:50] <arosales> so if I understand correctly only cloud-image use cases need py-software-properties, correct?
[19:51] <jrwren> arosales: no, its not that simple :(
[19:51] <jcastro> you kind of always need it
[19:51] <jcastro> you can't add-apt-repository without it
[19:51] <jrwren> right, and its not there in some situations. its definitely there in trusty cloud-img
[19:52] <jcastro> the instructions on the current get-started page look correct, what's the issue?
[19:52] <arosales> lol jcastro
[19:52] <jcastro> you can't add it to recommends
[19:53] <arosales> jcastro: tldr just trying to make the get-started instructions
[19:53] <jcastro> you wouldn't have access to the juju-quickstart package at all 
[19:53] <arosales> simple as posslbe
[19:53] <jcastro> right yeah
[19:53] <jcastro> we went through this with design
[19:53] <arosales> re the new mp @ https://code.launchpad.net/~marcoceppi/juju-quickstart/recommend-juju/+merge/283745
[19:53] <jcastro> the only way to make it simpler is to either ask distro to put p-s-p default everywhere, or update trusty faster
[19:54] <jcastro> update juju in trusty faster, is what I mean
[19:54] <arosales> look to see if we could remove software-properties but jrwren educated me on the issues
[19:55] <arosales> jcastro: agreed on updating those being the fixes, but probably not going to happen before 16.04 with current schedules
[19:55] <arosales> we'll make this better in juju 2.0, but for now seems we got to live with this extra command
[19:55] <jcastro> right
[19:55] <arosales> jrwren: thanks for the info
[19:56] <jrwren> arosales: you are welcome, sorry it wasn't better answers.
[19:56] <jcastro> I also tried to get them to fix the copy and paste buttons
[19:57] <jcastro> but lost that argument
[19:57] <arosales> its not that bad, but I appreciate the info jrwren