| === howefield is now known as howefield_afk | ||
| thedac | cpaelzer: rbasak: beisner and I are sprinting next week. Can you bump us out a week? | 07:14 |
|---|---|---|
| cpaelzer | thedac: we are sprinting as well, let me ask the next one in the list then :-) | 07:27 |
| cpaelzer | thedac: are more in the list sprinting with you, so I can skip considering them? | 07:27 |
| thedac | cpaelzer: coreycb arosales jamespage gnouy and zul are all srinting as well :) | 07:29 |
| cpaelzer | thedac: thx! | 07:29 |
| zul | srinting? | 07:29 |
| cpaelzer | zul: there http://www.roblox.com/games/86180135/Srintings-Place :-P | 07:34 |
| === cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer_afk | ||
| === xnox is now known as s390x | ||
| === cpaelzer_afk is now known as cpaelzer_ | ||
| === s390x is now known as xnox | ||
| * slangasek waves | 16:01 | |
| pitti | o/ | 16:02 |
| barry | \o | 16:02 |
| chiluk | o/ | 16:02 |
| tdaitx | o/ | 16:02 |
| xnox | \o | 16:02 |
| slangasek | #startmeeting | 16:03 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Jan 28 16:03:05 2016 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 16:03 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 16:03 |
| slangasek | [TOPIC] Lightning round | 16:03 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round | ||
| slangasek | $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk) | 16:03 |
| slangasek | caribou tdaitx cyphermox sil2100 pitti robru bdmurray slangasek chiluk doko xnox barry infinity | 16:03 |
| slangasek | caribou: hi :) | 16:04 |
| slangasek | tdaitx: ok, you're up :) | 16:04 |
| tdaitx | # 2016-01-28 | 16:05 |
| tdaitx | * Updated OpenJDK 6 from 6u37-1.13.9 to 6u38-1.13.10 (based on IcedTea 1.13.10) | 16:05 |
| tdaitx | * Provided OpenJDK 6u38 backports to the security team for Wily, Vivid, Trusty, and Precise | 16:05 |
| tdaitx | * Porting Jean-Baptiste TCK scripts from JCK 6 to JCK 7 | 16:05 |
| tdaitx | * Travelling today to Brussels for FOSDEM | 16:05 |
| tdaitx | (done) | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - libaudit support: shadow and openssh (bug LP: #1478087) | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - multipath-tools SRUs for 14.04.4: | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - bug LP: #1432062 - spaces in device names | 16:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1478087 in lightdm (Ubuntu Vivid) "Add libaudit support" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478087 | 16:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1432062 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "multipath-tools-boot: support booting without user_friendly_names on devices with spaces in identifiers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432062 | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - bug LP: #1526984 - readonly bindings for multipathd -B | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - bug LP: #1503286 - let udev settle before mounting. | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - bug LP: #1496210 - defualt values for IBM 2810XIV storage | 16:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1526984 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: root mpath device unavailable after installation" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1526984 | 16:05 |
| doko | tdaitx, look up the beer location for tomorrow night | 16:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1503286 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "ISST-LTE: Boot of Ubuntu15.10 lpar fails: "mounting /dev/sdn2 on /root failed: Device or resource busy" [multipath]" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503286 | 16:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1496210 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "multipath-tools lacks the default settings for IBM 2810XIV storage system" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496210 | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - debugging parted device naming policy and ioctl errors (bug LP: #1536008) | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | - reviewing MIRs: fwupd (bug LP: #1536871) - appstream (bug LP: #1538293) | 16:05 |
| cyphermox | (done) | 16:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1536008 in parted (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: parted command shows "device-mapper: table ioctl on failed: No such device or address" error" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536008 | 16:06 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1536871 in fwupd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fwupd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536871 | 16:06 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1538293 in appstream (Ubuntu) "[MIR] appstream" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1538293 | 16:06 |
| pitti | oh, no sil2100 | 16:06 |
| pitti | autopkgtest: | 16:07 |
| slangasek | indeed | 16:07 |
| pitti | - Enable SSL on debci, fix some remaining issues in autopkgtest-retrier, and roll out self-service retry buttons | 16:07 |
| pitti | - Refine web-based retry to check uploader permissions | 16:07 |
| pitti | - Fix wrong kernel versions with apt pinning | 16:07 |
| pitti | - britney: Add option for working with a lot of shared silo instances relative to Ubuntu (#1537868) | 16:07 |
| pitti | - britney: Fix crash with NBS binaries in target release (reported by robru) | 16:07 |
| pitti | - (ongoing) more experiments with running armhf tests through remote LXD in Scalingstack; still blocked by "locks up after some time" bug | 16:07 |
| pitti | - (ongoing) Investigate missing proxy vars on ppc64el/trusty (#1539126) | 16:07 |
| pitti | distro: | 16:07 |
| pitti | - init-system-helpers: add autopkgtest | 16:07 |
| pitti | - init-system-helpers: review our remaining delta, reduce most of it (part of that: #1539016); we can sync after xenial | 16:07 |
| pitti | - merges: gnupg, ifupdown | 16:07 |
| pitti | - network-manager: Fix/test/apply Bryan's patch for fixing NFS mounts (#1515446) | 16:07 |
| pitti | - numexpr: Fix autopkgtest regression | 16:07 |
| pitti | - udev: Fix persistent net names with d-i for trusty (#1537136) | 16:07 |
| barry | pitti: \o/ | 16:07 |
| pitti | - Clean up usage of /var/log/udev (#1537211) | 16:07 |
| pitti | - Review initramfs-tools, init-system-helpers, and sysvinit merges from Andy; systemd tests spotted a regression in update-rc.d, fix that | 16:07 |
| pitti | - Discuss apport implementation for crashes in container with stgraber; we have a solution now, tests needs to be written and then we can enable this again | 16:07 |
| pitti | END | 16:07 |
| robru | lp:cupstream2distro | 16:07 |
| robru | * fix traceback when abandoning silos | 16:07 |
| robru | * fix erroneously setting published_versions excessively | 16:07 |
| robru | * fix noisy transient errors in status setting | 16:07 |
| robru | * set branches as merged after pushing to trunk | 16:07 |
| robru | lp:bileto | 16:07 |
| robru | * misc code cleanup | 16:07 |
| robru | * disable some unused britney features | 16:07 |
| robru | * fix when lander_signoff is automatically cleared | 16:07 |
| robru | * add documenation/network topology chart | 16:07 |
| robru | misc | 16:07 |
| robru | * audit bugs & work on enabling local deployments for sprint next week | 16:07 |
| robru | (finito) | 16:07 |
| cyphermox | pitti: persistent net names, had we not fixed that already with the previous trusty dot release? | 16:08 |
| tdaitx | doko: hehe, only for tomorrow? ;-) | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | tested connection to new DSE servers (good) | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | discussion with stub re tables from old cassandra dbs to import | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | release upgrade testing from Trusty to Vivid | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | searched for / consolidated duplicates of T to V upgrade failures (LP: #1534374) | 16:08 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1534374 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "unable to upgrade to 15.04 due to libstdc++6 SRU" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534374 | 16:08 |
| pitti | cyphermox: apparently not | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | investigation into u-r-u saying packages are unauthenticated | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | release upgrade testing from Trusty to Wily | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | reported LP: #1537900 re dist-upgrade failure to wily | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | uploaded sysvinit fix for LP: #1507151 to wily-proposed | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | updated ubuntu-release-upgrader to support Trusty to Wily upgrades | 16:08 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1507151 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Wily) "duplicate for #1537900 sysv-rc.postinst calls insserv by name, but insserv package does not provide the command in a bin directory" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507151 | 16:08 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1507151 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Wily) "sysv-rc.postinst calls insserv by name, but insserv package does not provide the command in a bin directory" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507151 | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | W SRU verification of LP: #1537916, #1507151 | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | worked on britney sending email notifications | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | patch piloting | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | SRU queue processing | 16:08 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1537916 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Wily) "wily release upgrader needs to support upgrades from Trusty" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1537916 | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | installed / setup Ubuntu on new laptop | 16:08 |
| cyphermox | pitti: (we removed biosdevname in 14.04.3 for much of the same thing) | 16:08 |
| bdmurray | ✔ done | 16:08 |
| xnox | tdaitx, well it's a special fosdem beer location, with extra special beers and tokens. | 16:08 |
| slangasek | pitti: speaking of armhf and scalingstack, did you happen to see the post from hrw a few weeks ago about "how I got 32-bit arm VMs running right"? | 16:08 |
| pitti | cyphermox: err, no, we didn't -- biosdevname is still used in d-i in latest netboot | 16:09 |
| pitti | slangasek: uh, no, I didn't.. showmeshowmeshowme! | 16:09 |
| cyphermox | maybe I'm mistaking it for some other release then | 16:09 |
| pitti | slangasek: I was talking to wgrant about that and made some experiments, but there were still some hiccups | 16:09 |
| slangasek | pitti: https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2016/01/17/running-32-bit-arm-virtual-machine-on-aarch64-hardware/ | 16:09 |
| doko | bdmurray, any proposed action on 1534374? | 16:09 |
| slangasek | this is on Fedora, but hopefully translates | 16:09 |
| pitti | slangasek: oh, that way around -- I tohught you meant "boot armhf images in scalingstack" | 16:10 |
| xnox | bug 1534374? | 16:10 |
| xnox | bug 1534374 | 16:10 |
| ubottu | bug 1534374 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "unable to upgrade to 15.04 due to libstdc++6 SRU" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534374 | 16:10 |
| bdmurray | doko: wait for Vivid to End of Life | 16:10 |
| slangasek | pitti: well, but it should be bootable in scaling stack if we get the pieces figured out :) | 16:10 |
| pitti | bdmurray: what is "DSE", OOI? | 16:10 |
| doko | bdmurray, I like that | 16:10 |
| bdmurray | pitti: data stack enterprise | 16:10 |
| pitti | will vivid actually EOL? I thought touch releases are still based on vivid | 16:11 |
| bdmurray | pitti: cassandra w/ support and bells and whistles | 16:11 |
| sil2100 | Oh crap | 16:11 |
| slangasek | * uplift edk2 to new upstream snapshot per request of hyperscale team | 16:12 |
| slangasek | * ppc64el triage for 14.04.4 | 16:12 |
| slangasek | * merges: at a personal 5-year low for outstanding TIL merges ;) | 16:12 |
| slangasek | * nudging packages for proposed-migration | 16:12 |
| slangasek | * MP review for system-image "device alias" support | 16:12 |
| slangasek | * forward progress on P7 machine deprecation | 16:12 |
| slangasek | * discussion about Archive Reorg changes for 16.04 (headline: build-depends won't have to go through MIR, only binary depends) | 16:12 |
| * sil2100 is obviously very late but still needs time to prepare his report | 16:12 | |
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| xnox | sil2100, are you not looking forward to vivid builders getting turned off? =) | 16:12 |
| slangasek | (done) | 16:12 |
| chiluk | LP #1535349. Patch created waiting on sponsorship. Discovered an additional issue with initramfs-tools that will need to be resolved before this is fully fixed. | 16:12 |
| chiluk | LP #1484696. Fix Released issue closed. | 16:12 |
| chiluk | Xenial issues with pulseaudio rejecting connections in xenial. Daemon is still up, but not responding. Case to be found or reported. | 16:12 |
| chiluk | Xenial issues where chrome does not respond to dbus url open requests. | 16:12 |
| chiluk | --done-- | 16:12 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1535349 in coreutils (Ubuntu Trusty) "`df /dev/sda1` no longer reports information for /dev/sda1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1535349 | 16:12 |
| pitti | slangasek: you can actually create an AMI with the kernel/initrd and boot the armhf cloud image -- but that fails on some libvirt issue (which wgrant already dealt with by backporting the fix) and some scalingstack config issue | 16:12 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1484696 in MAAS 1.10 "Unable to connect to: ws://<maas IP>:/MAAS/ws" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484696 | 16:12 |
| tdaitx | sil2100: aim to go right after infinity, he is last on the list ;-) | 16:12 |
| doko | - binutils 2.26 release | 16:13 |
| doko | - gcc-5 ibm backports | 16:13 |
| doko | - icedtea-web update, build for openjdk-8 | 16:13 |
| doko | - fix firefox build on arm64 | 16:13 |
| doko | - getting gcc cross packages mostly installable | 16:13 |
| doko | - ruby2.2 update | 16:13 |
| doko | - openjdk-6, openjdk-9 uploads | 16:13 |
| sil2100 | tdaitx: thanks | 16:13 |
| doko | - work on python3.4 removal | 16:13 |
| doko | - work on ruby2.1 removal | 16:13 |
| doko | - some work on multiarchifying packages | 16:13 |
| barry | slangasek: oh? where's that discussion happening? | 16:13 |
| doko | (done) | 16:13 |
| pitti | slangasek: uh, no "main" closure on b-deps any more? that sounds a bit strange | 16:13 |
| xnox | barry, slowly being worked on ;-) | 16:13 |
| slangasek | barry: it's been internal discussion up to this point, I'll post on ubuntu-devel shortly about it | 16:14 |
| barry | just curious if there's a public thread on it? | 16:14 |
| barry | oh cool | 16:14 |
| xnox | pitti, it's not as weird as it sounds. as vastly smaller in scope. | 16:14 |
| slangasek | it's in the same general vein as Archive Reorg has always been - "security support over the binary dep closure, not over the source dep closure" | 16:14 |
| pitti | xnox: "Go static linking" | 16:15 |
| xnox | pitti, and C++ templates | 16:15 |
| slangasek | we just found a shortcut to the implementation | 16:15 |
| xnox | pitti, are two things to watch out for, yes. | 16:15 |
| slangasek | pitti, xnox: Built-Using | 16:15 |
| xnox | slangasek, oh, ok. | 16:15 |
| slangasek | i.e. we should still be closed over Built-Using, just not over Build-Depends | 16:15 |
| pitti | so if we render main packages unbuildable because of some universe crap nobody cares about, we make our lifes even harder | 16:15 |
| slangasek | xnox: your turn | 16:16 |
| slangasek | pitti: happy to make this a discussion topic later in the meeting :) | 16:16 |
| robru | Does anybody know if it's possible to start an lxc from inside a schroot? | 16:16 |
| xnox | robru, we are in a meeting =) | 16:16 |
| xnox | working on fixing cloud images (borked link_in_boot) | 16:16 |
| xnox | working on publishing updated installer guide | 16:16 |
| xnox | fixed .ins and el torito boot files | 16:16 |
| xnox | packaged libica | 16:16 |
| xnox | upgraded btrfs tools, to fix bugs on ppc64el | 16:16 |
| xnox | attended openmainframe project eu meetup in luton | 16:16 |
| xnox | off to fosdem tomorrow | 16:16 |
| xnox | etc. | 16:16 |
| xnox | done | 16:16 |
| slangasek | robru: a chroot by itself has no namespacing; so yes it should be possible as long as you have all the right mounts in the chroot | 16:16 |
| barry | sla claws-mail: merged w/debian, uploaded 3.13.1-1.1ubuntu1 and 3.13.1-1.1ubuntu2 (the latter to fix upstream bug #3600) | 16:17 |
| ubottu | bug 3600 in Launchpad itself "Summary field processing is handling carriage returns wrongly." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3600 | 16:17 |
| barry | dirtbike/pip stack: everything working in my local staging environment. now i need to 1) release dirtbike & upload to debian; 2) upload python-progress (debian bug #812908); 3) update debian python policy for wheels; 4) update pip to 8 & upload. it was lots of work, but it's all paying off now and will make ongoing maintenance *much* easier, and will finally get us a much more modern pip. next up: virtualenv | 16:17 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 812908 in wnpp "ITP: python-progress -- easy progress reporting for Python" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/812908 | 16:17 |
| barry | worked on the foundations-x-python3-only blueprint. samba-libs is still the big blocker. reached out to the fedora porter who has made some progress, but still a lot of work to do. this one has me the most worried. | 16:17 |
| barry | i won't wait for the debian gnome maintainers much longer on libpeas. if nothing happens in debian by the end of next week's sprint, i'll move forward in ubuntu. | 16:17 |
| barry | --done-- | 16:17 |
| pitti | sil2100: no infinity, go | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | o/ | 16:18 |
| doko | barry, is there an open issue? | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - RTM Status meetings | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - system-image: | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Coordinating the removal of manta images from official s-i | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Poke community s-i hosts to pick up manta once we remove those | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Tests tests | 16:18 |
| barry | doko: on libpeas? | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Promoting devel images | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - OTA-9: | 16:18 |
| doko | yes | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Preparing release notes | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Releasing the images (with some complications due to management miscommunication) | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Investigating various reports | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Future OTA schedule preparation, announcements | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Multiple secret work involving device enablement in s-i | 16:18 |
| barry | doko: yes, let me find it | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Preparing a new merge for ppp, symbols changes needed | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Help in preparing silo 12 landing, packaging reviews etc. (a big PD-related silo) | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - OTA-9.5 | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Planning and scheduling, various long discussions | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | * Add new frameworks to the seeds and store | 16:18 |
| sil2100 | - Landing-team-tools - write a helper script for getting s-i image information | 16:19 |
| sil2100 | (done) | 16:19 |
| slangasek | sil2100: congrats on OTA-9 | 16:19 |
| robru | slangasek: what are the right mounts? It has /proc and /dev/pts | 16:19 |
| sil2100 | Thanks, some people do seem to have issues with seeing the update though, will have to look into that a bit | 16:19 |
| sil2100 | Since the phasing ended like 6-8 hours ago | 16:19 |
| pitti | slangasek: so yes, that's using direct kernel boot much like I attempted on scalingstack; this should work in principle indeed | 16:19 |
| sil2100 | But yeah, in overall it's good :) | 16:20 |
| barry | doko: LP: #1440504 which has a link to the debian bug | 16:20 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1440504 in libpeas (Ubuntu) "libpeas-1.0-0 depends on both libpython2.7 and libpython3.4" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440504 | 16:20 |
| barry | doko: debian bug has patches | 16:20 |
| slangasek | robru: I don't know all of them, but there'll be at least /sys and I think there's at least one other mount needed for the cgroups | 16:20 |
| slangasek | (but I have no cgroups fs mount on my system currently, hmmm) | 16:20 |
| slangasek | maybe that's old info | 16:20 |
| caribou | o/ | 16:21 |
| caribou | sorry I'm late | 16:21 |
| slangasek | pitti: ah, direct kernel boot; that's obviously less than perfect, but I guess it's the only option we have there | 16:21 |
| pitti | slangasek: tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup ? | 16:21 |
| pitti | slangasek: it's what the blog uses too | 16:21 |
| slangasek | pitti: oh haha I was looking at mounts inside a chroot, so there | 16:21 |
| slangasek | caribou: hi! anything you'd like to report? | 16:22 |
| caribou | yep | 16:22 |
| caribou | LP1522346 - nut merge | 16:22 |
| caribou | LP1536904 - kdump fails on 16.04 | 16:22 |
| caribou | LP1537714 - smaller initrd for older kernels | 16:22 |
| caribou | Sponsorship : LP1089013 - clvm | 16:22 |
| caribou | Sponsorship : LP1248054 - dlm | 16:22 |
| caribou | and rework of my home network | 16:22 |
| caribou | (done)à | 16:22 |
| slangasek | caribou: thanks for nut, I'm glad to no longer be TIL on it ;-) | 16:22 |
| slangasek | now that just leaves me shadow <cough> | 16:23 |
| caribou | oh, & looks like there will be another rsyslog merge needed | 16:23 |
| slangasek | I can also give a status update for infinity | 16:24 |
| robru | slangasek: so is it enough to just bindmount from the host into the chroot? Where's the documentation on everything lxc needs? | 16:24 |
| slangasek | * working on glibc 2.22 merge and reconciling locales packages with Debian | 16:24 |
| cyphermox | slangasek: I mean to merge shadow | 16:24 |
| slangasek | robru: I don't know; possibly somewhere near the lxc package | 16:24 |
| slangasek | cyphermox: oh? but I'm TIL :) | 16:25 |
| xnox | robru, try stgraber ? | 16:25 |
| xnox | =) | 16:25 |
| cyphermox | slangasek: ah, I can leave it to you then ;) | 16:25 |
| slangasek | cyphermox: maybe you want to merge console-setup instead, you already have your name down on that one on merges.u.c :) | 16:25 |
| slangasek | ok, any questions on status? | 16:25 |
| cyphermox | slangasek: yeah, that one too | 16:26 |
| slangasek | [TOPIC] Archive Reorg | 16:26 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Archive Reorg | ||
| slangasek | since there were questions about this, let's discuss | 16:27 |
| slangasek | pitti: you had concerns about uncared-for packages in universe | 16:27 |
| doko | cyphermox, ohh, I started shadow, but lost track. while the debian maintainer took most patches, they are disabled, and need an update | 16:28 |
| pitti | slangasek: well, yes; mostly about rendering more main packages FTBFS and thus making it harder to remove obsolete universe packages | 16:28 |
| cyphermox | doko: ok.. I mentioned it because you asked me about a shadow upload to trusty :P | 16:28 |
| pitti | but also with all the static linking madness of go, where build deps are really binary deps | 16:29 |
| slangasek | pitti: so the reality today is that we spend a lot of effort going through the MIR process for these same packages, pulling them into main | 16:29 |
| slangasek | and then we still don't do anything with them because they're not actually interesting, they're only needed as build-dependencies | 16:29 |
| slangasek | I expect this to be a net reduction in work effort, because a) less MIR paperwork for things we don't care about and don't want to support, b) less packaging delta from Debian to enforce a build-time main/universe split, c) fewer packages in main overall meaning less security team work | 16:30 |
| xnox | pitti, my thoughts were that packages that main build-depends on, will become known as "supported-build-depends" hosted mostly in universe. And then we can implement controls and/or additional policy on that. For example, uploads only by core-dev, rather than motu. | 16:30 |
| slangasek | this btw was always part of the ArchiveReorg plan, which we first discussed back in Barcelona :) It only foundered on some of the implementation details | 16:30 |
| xnox | pitti, (where supported-build-depends is a seed) | 16:31 |
| pitti | slangasek: oh yeah, that's the other thing -- we have some packages where we drop build deps to drop functionality which is only available with universe b-deps, for building plugins for example | 16:31 |
| slangasek | xnox: fwiw I don't see any reason to restrict uploads to core-dev | 16:31 |
| xnox | slangasek, ok. | 16:31 |
| pitti | slangasek: you'd have the same delta if they end up being binary deps (new library), or an invisible "static linking" case when they don't become build-deps | 16:31 |
| slangasek | pitti: static linking of go MUST be tracked already via the Built-Using field, which I mentioned above | 16:31 |
| xnox | pitti, yeah. and e.g. especially when those plugins, will be published into universe anyway. We already do build a lot packages in main, that have some binary packages in universe. | 16:31 |
| doko | cyphermox, feel free to take over | 16:31 |
| slangasek | hmmm I wonder if this would actually cause python2 to drop out of main in 16.04 ;) | 16:32 |
| cyphermox | doko: *shrugs* I will finish console-setup first, I already have it in a PPA ready to finish testing | 16:32 |
| xnox | slangasek, i wonder if "built-using" should be included in main closure then (whereas "build-depends" will not) | 16:33 |
| barry | slangasek: wouldn't that be wonderful? :) | 16:33 |
| xnox | slangasek, ubuntu-desktop depends on python2 at the moment. | 16:33 |
| slangasek | pitti: the forcing function for 16.04 is nodejs. This is something the security team will *not* be providing support for, yet it's pulled in as a build-dependency for documentation | 16:33 |
| slangasek | xnox: sorry, that's exactly what I meant | 16:33 |
| xnox | slangasek, ack. | 16:33 |
| barry | xnox: see my previous comments about samba-libs :( | 16:34 |
| slangasek | xnox: Built-Using should be included in main (and therefore component-mismatches should report on it), Build-Depends should not | 16:34 |
| slangasek | pitti: but there are other examples besides nodejs; maven has been one this cycle as well, with its many tentacles of java | 16:34 |
| slangasek | yes, if the build-dependency translates to a binary dependency, we still have to deal with it | 16:35 |
| * barry will be happy to drop some debian deltas because of this | 16:35 | |
| slangasek | but the reason for ArchiveReorg is the recognition that there are many packages that are in main only because they're build-dependencies and *not* runtime dependencies (or statically-linked) | 16:35 |
| pitti | well, I can't say I have a good feeling about this, but maybe that's just me then | 16:35 |
| slangasek | pitti: it'll reduce the workload, trust me ;-) | 16:37 |
| pitti | slangasek: oh, no doubts about that, I'm more afraid of piling up hidden traps | 16:37 |
| slangasek | hmm, well | 16:37 |
| slangasek | the kind of trap you've mentioned - bitrotting package in universe - is still something we'd be responsible for sorting out, in either case | 16:38 |
| barry | slangasek, xnox it would be nice to have some high level archive spelunking tooling around this. e.g. given a package, tell me the status of all its b-d and depends. or going the other way, given a package, tell me the status of its reverses | 16:38 |
| xnox | barry, that would be check-mir =) | 16:38 |
| slangasek | i.e. if it's a build-dep, we're responsible for sorting out the bitrot; it doesn't matter if that package is in main like today, or if we move it to unvierse | 16:38 |
| xnox | barry, we are still keeping main/universe components | 16:38 |
| slangasek | xnox: well, we need to stand up a modified component-mismatches and germinate | 16:39 |
| pitti | slangasek: right, but so far we've just dropped the build-dep of "meh, don't like that" stuff beforehand, instead of letting them creep in everywhere | 16:39 |
| barry | xnox: something like that, probably with some enhancements | 16:39 |
| * xnox really should share my draft document with everybody. | 16:39 | |
| pitti | so this will undoubtedly work well initially; my fear is that it will make it harder down the road, as we effectively end up maintaining half of universe | 16:39 |
| pitti | maven, haskell, what not | 16:40 |
| xnox | but we already do | 16:40 |
| slangasek | I disagree that this means we will be maintaining maven or haskell | 16:40 |
| xnox | e.g. haskell transitions, java transtions it's still we do anyway. | 16:41 |
| slangasek | except to a very basic level | 16:41 |
| xnox | a healthy main, requires a somewhat healthy universe. | 16:41 |
| * xnox was writting down my thoughts on the subject in a google doc -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dJBtLLCppH2yt664S8G2jB_tK-iWi_D7wqaN6S4ddwI/edit# | 16:41 | |
| slangasek | xnox: have you checked past archive reorg documentation in the wiki already? | 16:42 |
| xnox | slangasek, i've read and re-read most of it. And it is confusing. | 16:42 |
| slangasek | \o/ | 16:42 |
| xnox | slangasek, cause parts were implemented, and other parts are not (e.g. we did permissions, but we didn't abolish components) | 16:43 |
| xnox | slangasek, and this new "supported-build-depends" subject, i'd rather not call "archive-reorg", as the scope is smaller. | 16:43 |
| xnox | e.g. we are keeping M.I.R. and we are keeping a show-case pinacle "main" component. | 16:43 |
| slangasek | we were always going to be keeping an MIR process | 16:44 |
| xnox | and kicking things out of it, that are not pinacle show-case stuff =) | 16:44 |
| slangasek | it was just a question of whether the includer was still called "main" | 16:44 |
| xnox | slangasek, well yes. But the whole apt preferences shananigans were nuts. | 16:44 |
| slangasek | heh | 16:44 |
| xnox | my plan was to generate sample new seed output, sample new components missmatches, polish the document | 16:45 |
| xnox | and like seek further feedback | 16:46 |
| xnox | but i guess the cat is out of the bag now. | 16:46 |
| === cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer | ||
| slangasek | don't worry, you'll get all the feedback you need ;) | 16:46 |
| slangasek | [TOPIC] AOB | 16:46 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB | ||
| slangasek | anything else today? | 16:46 |
| slangasek | I have a small proposal to replace the Linux kernel in main with Hurd | 16:47 |
| barry | *hurt | 16:47 |
| cyphermox | slangasek: pff | 16:47 |
| cyphermox | I'd rather you pick Darwin. | 16:47 |
| slangasek | heh | 16:47 |
| sil2100 | ;) | 16:47 |
| caribou | nah, keep it & rewrite in Go | 16:48 |
| xnox | slangasek, +1 on Darwin | 16:48 |
| barry | that'll dovetail nicely with my plans to rewrite go in guile | 16:48 |
| tdaitx | stuff I didn't have time to write: I will be off tomorrow and from Wed to Frid next week (swap day + vacation), and then the week after on Monday and Tuesday (holidays); moved from hexchat to quassel so now I can have it connected most of the time (just in time for some time off) | 16:48 |
| xnox | barry, using an llvm compiler right? | 16:48 |
| slangasek | Mir 3.0, now with DisplayPostscript support | 16:48 |
| barry | xnox: of course! | 16:49 |
| xnox | slangasek, \o/ | 16:49 |
| xnox | slangasek, requires a type-c dongle? | 16:49 |
| cyphermox | xnox: DisplayPostscript is over CP only | 16:49 |
| slangasek | tdaitx: oh good, enjoy the scrollback then ;) | 16:49 |
| xnox | cyphermox, i have no idea what CP is - is that available on a mainframe? | 16:50 |
| tdaitx | yeah, as if the email backlog is not enough ;-) | 16:50 |
| cyphermox | xnox: I suppose. Carrier Pidgeon? | 16:50 |
| * barry fires up his old NeWS server | 16:50 | |
| slangasek | #endmeeting | 16:50 |
| * caribou wants VAXnotes back | 16:50 | |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Jan 28 16:50:50 2016 UTC. | 16:50 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-28-16.03.moin.txt | 16:50 |
| barry | slangasek: why? we were just geting started :) | 16:51 |
| slangasek | barry: you can keep going, but I need more coffee ;) | 16:51 |
| xnox | tdaitx, don't forget to update .plan file for the finger protocol! | 16:51 |
| tdaitx | lol | 16:51 |
| === cpaelzer is now known as cpaelzer_afk | ||
| === cpaelzer_afk is now known as cpaelzer | ||
| === marcoceppi is now known as marcoceppi|airpl | ||
| === marcoceppi|airpl is now known as marcoc|airplane | ||
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