[09:02] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i thought we could scale it a bit
[15:31] <dkessel> flocculant: good day. testing session is today, in 30 minutes, or is my calendar totally out-of-date?
[15:45] <flocculant> dkessel: it was - ~15 now :D
[15:45] <dkessel> flocculant: good day. testing session is today, in 30 minutes, or is my calendar totally out-of-date:p
[15:45] <dkessel> wha
[15:45]  * dkessel needs to minify his fingers
[15:49] <flocculant> :)
[15:49] <flocculant> hi akxwi-dave 
[16:00] <flocculant> who's here for the package test session?
[16:00] <jjfrv8> o/
[16:00] <flocculant> hi Jack :)
[16:00] <jjfrv8> howdy
[16:00] <bluesabre> o/
[16:01] <bluesabre> (for questions more than anything)
[16:01] <flocculant> :)
[16:01] <flocculant> well if it's just Jack and dkessel we can just let them ask what they want :D
[16:02] <knome> i guess i'm here too ;)
[16:02] <MrTulias> \o
[16:02] <flocculant> leave it for 5 minutes and then just open it up to questions anyone has I guess
[16:02] <flocculant> hi MrTulias 
[16:02] <MrTulias> hi 
[16:02] <flocculant> MrTulias: did you get chance to look at the contributor docs?
[16:03] <flocculant> hi akxwi-dave 
[16:04] <MrTulias> yes
[16:04] <flocculant> cool
[16:04] <akxwi-dave> howdo
[16:06] <flocculant> ok so with MrTulias and people from team I guess the best way would be for people to ask things
[16:06] <akxwi-dave> flocculant, re the thunar crashes.. been trying to get my laptop to crash, but no matter what i throw at it, it wont
[16:06] <flocculant> I'd assume that MrTulias will have most :)
[16:06] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: :)
[16:09] <flocculant> if not I'll start with a topic then see if that works :D
[16:09] <bluesabre> akxwi-dave: is this with or without the thunar package currently in the xubunt-staging ppa (uploaded the night before last)?
[16:09] <bluesabre> (or both)
[16:09] <MrTulias> Sure, I do not know what to do if a fault occurs, how to report it
[16:10] <jjfrv8> my only question is about filing bugs against dev packages. I've been unsuccessful in the past on a couple of occasions even following the instructions.
[16:10] <flocculant> ok 
[16:10] <flocculant> so let's do standard packages first 
[16:11] <flocculant> MrTulias: assume you've got a fault with thunar and you've not been presented with the apport (crash/bug reporter) it's simply running that from a terminal
[16:11] <flocculant> ubuntu-bug thunar
[16:12] <flocculant> that'll start the reported up
[16:12] <flocculant> MrTulias: try it now and you'll see what it does - you can abort
[16:14] <akxwi-dave> flocculant, knome: this is with 1.6.10, i have the 3 development ppa installed, and do a daily update & upgrade
[16:15] <jjfrv8> I just got 1.6.10-2 on my Vivid desktop. I have not had issues with 1.6.10-1. Haven't test on my X laptop yet.
[16:16] <flocculant> MrTulias: did you see that? 
[16:16] <MrTulias> Yes, I try it with MenuLibre
[16:17] <flocculant> k - so that's how to report simply
[16:18] <flocculant> if you're trying to do so with a package from a ppa then ubuntu-bug fails
[16:19] <flocculant> to do that you're need to go to the launchpad page - https://launchpad.net/menulibre
[16:20] <flocculant> from there you can manually report a bug, link in the Get involved section at top right
[16:20] <knome> (or in the case that the projects upstream isn't launchpad https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagename)
[16:21] <flocculant> what you find is though - none of the data that ubuntu-bug would provide happens - so you're basically at the whim of a dev asking
[16:22] <flocculant> for our ppa's - the dev's are all in team - so they would ask
[16:22] <flocculant> bluesabre: wouldn't you :D
[16:22] <bluesabre> indeed
[16:22] <bluesabre> :D
[16:22] <flocculant> :)
[16:23] <jjfrv8> That might be where I want wrong. The two different methods don't show in the QA docs.
[16:23] <knome> jjfrv8, let's fix that :)
[16:23] <jjfrv8> ok :)
[16:23] <flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html#qa-bugs-ppa
[16:24] <knome> right, let's not fix that ;)
[16:24] <flocculant> and above it the ubuntu-bug way :)
[16:24] <flocculant> jjfrv8: the docs got a pretty massive overhaul 
[16:24] <knome> i propose to add new subheadings for that part
[16:25] <flocculant> mmh
[16:25] <knome> eg. one "Reporting bugs" header, then subheading "Regular bugs", "Bugs in PPA packages"
[16:25] <knome> or sth
[16:25] <knome> might make it a bit more obvious
[16:25] <flocculant> but there are some other changes to ppa to add in when bluesabre has them set up
[16:25] <knome> mhm
[16:26] <flocculant> MrTulias: following ok? 
[16:26] <bluesabre> I should have those updated this week
[16:26] <MrTulias> yes, I see it
[16:26] <flocculant> okey doke 
[16:27] <jjfrv8> I'm still confused.
[16:27] <MrTulias> but not updated, sorry
[16:27] <knome> jjfrv8, ubuntu-bug when the package isn't from a PPA, manual reporting when it is (developers will ask for more data)
[16:27] <jjfrv8> The "Reporting bugs with PPAs section only lists one way to file a bug, not the one flocculant mentioned about the "Getting involved" link on LP
[16:28] <flocculant> jjfrv8: oic - the one in the docs is basically the shortcut to what I said
[16:28] <flocculant> but we can make that more obvious perhaps
[16:29] <jjfrv8> ah, but I think when I've tried that in the past, it said sth like "no such package".
[16:29] <flocculant> ok
[16:29] <knome> the package names aren't always completely obvious
[16:29] <knome> i guess..
[16:30] <flocculant> jjfrv8: I've seen similar - or I've seen where something says "we don't really use launchpad"
[16:30] <flocculant> I suppose in those outliers best to ask someone
[16:30] <knome> actually
[16:30] <knome> one situation where LP might say that
[16:31] <knome> if you are trying to file a bug against a virtual package created by another package
[16:31] <knome> for example, (IIRC), the slideshow has a virtual package ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu, which is created by the source package ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[16:33] <flocculant> jjfrv8: better now? 
[16:34] <jjfrv8> Yup, think so :)
[16:34] <flocculant> k
[16:34] <flocculant> MrTulias: how about you? 
[16:34] <MrTulias> fine
[16:35] <flocculant> ok - other questions? 
[16:35] <jjfrv8> not I
[16:35] <flocculant> I can ask one :)
[16:36]  * bluesabre hands flocculant the mic
[16:36] <flocculant> does everyone understand what we mean when we talk about exploratory testing?
[16:36] <flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :p
[16:36] <jjfrv8> you mean if we understand, why no one does it?
[16:37] <flocculant> not really - just making sure people do understand :D
[16:38] <bluesabre> the thunar bug is a good example I'd imagine, reporting a bug as you find it through normal usage
[16:38] <flocculant> yea
[16:41] <flocculant> MrTulias: anything else you want to talk about?
[16:41] <jjfrv8> I just have to remember to periodically update the tracker if I'm paying attention to that kind of thing.
[16:41] <flocculant> yea
[16:43] <MrTulias> The tests must be repeated on each update?
[16:43] <knome> every time you test, you have to report, yeah
[16:44] <flocculant> MrTulias: say you found a bug in menulibre, then it gets an update, you would want to see if the still saw the bug
[16:44] <knome> that too :)
[16:44] <bluesabre> +1
[16:44] <knome> that's why there's a list of the bugs to look for in the tracker
[16:44] <flocculant> the bug report itself - should get set fix released
[16:45] <flocculant> assuming that the update included it
[16:46] <flocculant> MrTulias: was that what you meant? 
[16:47] <jjfrv8> in the specific case of Thunar, is testing the latest on vivid still valid? (I do plan to install xenial on my desktop in the next few days)
[16:48] <MrTulias> They are discussing the bug thunar, I did not have any. I wondering if I should repeat the test to update
[16:48] <jjfrv8> I mean wily
[16:48] <akxwi-dave> if you have the luxury of testing on both, it would be great..
[16:48] <flocculant> MrTulias: are you testing on xenial? do you have ppa enabled? 
[16:49] <knome> testing with the development version (eg. xenial) is the best, but sometimes tests with other releases might be just as valid
[16:49] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: generally, we push ppa fixes to the most recent release (in this case wily) and current development (xenial)
[16:49] <bluesabre> when in doubt, go for xenial :)
[16:49] <akxwi-dave> There was a bug that seeme to only happen on xenial with the ppa's, but those same ppa's on wiley didnt have the bug
[16:49] <knome> in the situation akxwi-dave mentioned, tests with wily are less meaningful
[16:49] <jjfrv8> yup, got it today on wily and that's the machine that gets the most real-life testing
[16:50] <knome> i mean once that's figured out
[16:50] <knome> but when a bug happens on both releases, then it's fine to test with that
[16:50] <bluesabre> akxwi-dave: that's good information to add to the bug report, can help to identify the source of the bug
[16:50] <knome> considering the new version we are testing has landed to the PPA
[16:50] <knome> but ultimately, we always want at least some tests on the development release
[16:52] <flocculant> MrTulias: so if you're using the ppa and xenial and not seeing the bug - then that's what bluesabre would want to hear :)
[16:52] <bluesabre> yes, very much so
[16:53] <jjfrv8> thanks, flocculant et al. This has been a help. Gotta head out now.
[16:53] <flocculant> obviously he'd want to hear if it didn't as well - but not as happily :)
[16:53] <flocculant> jjfrv8: ok thanks for asking things :)
[16:53] <flocculant> it's always easy to assume everyone knows what *you* do 
[16:54] <jjfrv8> :)
[16:54] <akxwi-dave> :)
[16:56] <bluesabre> thanks jjfrv8!
[16:57] <flocculant> MrTulias: anything else?
[16:57] <MrTulias> nop
[16:57] <MrTulias> at moment :p
[16:58] <flocculant> anyone else? 
[16:58] <flocculant> if not we'll call it :)
[16:59] <bluesabre> I'm good
[16:59] <flocculant> MrTulias: obviously you can just come here and ask things if they pop up
[16:59] <knome> or the mailing list
[16:59] <flocculant> yep
[16:59] <MrTulias> ok, thanks
[17:00] <flocculant> thank you :)
[17:00] <flocculant> biab then