=== Guest83 is now known as Norbell
shibbolethAnyone even alive in here?00:39
=== alecu_ is now known as alecu
lpotterI am.00:41
shibbolethnice :)00:42
Bray90820Can i install unity on ubuntu touch so i can basically have a desktop experience on my tablet00:45
matv1lpotter hey01:02
matv1about the xhr discussion :)01:03
matv1i was still wondering.01:03
matv1you confirmed the error i was getting right01:03
matv1and you pointed out that at least the yandex app also generated that error01:04
matv1even though the programmer that made that, said it worked01:04
lpotteryes, as would any click app that uses QNetworkRequest01:04
lpotteryes, it's possible the request can succeed, if QNAM thinks Accessibility is Unknown, which most likely would be01:05
lpotterwe are working on getting around that issue by creating a new bearer plugin that does not talk to network manager directly01:06
matv1I see01:07
matv1I assumed UT just used regular qt bearer01:09
matv1but I dont really know enough about the inner workings of that :(01:12
matv1anyway whta your saying is that as an app developer I neednt worry about these errors. especially once that fix lands01:13
lpotterqt bearer has platform specific backends it can use01:13
lpotterwell, depends on the application01:13
lpotterif the request succeeds, then no worries01:13
matv1hm so in which kinds of situations would qnam through a blocking error instead  of accepting accessibility unknown?01:16
lpotterif it cannot determine the online state, the it is Unknown, until user explicitly sets the NetworkAccessibility.01:17
lpotterto NotAccessible01:18
matv1ah i see01:19
lpotternormally, Accessibility follows the online state01:19
lpottersome weird left over symbian thing01:19
matv1wow that is old indeed01:20
matv1well I am older actually01:20
matv1anyway thanks for clarifying01:20
lpotterand until recently, never actually worked!01:20
matv1not even in the symbian days ??01:21
lpottermaybe. for symbian01:21
matv1and when will that bearer fix land do you know?01:22
lpotternot real sure, depends on when the connectivity-api fixes land first :)01:23
matv1and thats not even in a proposed image yet right?01:24
matv1ok no worries01:25
matv1well thanks very much for clearing stuff up for me!01:26
matv1im off cheers01:26
lpotterok. bye01:26
dobeyBray90820: the ubuntu phone/tablet images already have unity on them02:14
mukahas new upgrade fixed mako's tethering?02:33
mukahow about hotspot?02:34
dobeymuka: have you filed a bug about rndis being broken on mako?02:37
mukawell, I just added a comment to existing filed bug.02:38
dobeyi just tried here and it doesn't work for me on latest rc-proposed image; but the phone is on wifi only02:41
=== xiinotulp is now known as plutoniix
mukais it possible to share phone's camera with computer? This connection may be via usb.03:09
dobeymuka: i don't think android low level provides a way to do that03:16
mukaok, thank you.03:17
Bray90820dobey: I meant the desktop version on unity06:14
=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun
=== rbasak_ is now known as rbasak
yellabs-r2hello there09:07
yellabs-r2is this the right place to ask questions about the ubuntu phone ?09:08
yellabs-r2E5 Bq09:08
yellabs-r2with update OTA-909:09
lotuspsychjeyellabs-r2: yes09:10
yellabs-r2can i somehow improve video playback ? cant find any settings to set it to a lower quality video so that it does not stutter09:10
lotuspsychjeyellabs-r2: what kind of format your playing?09:10
yellabs-r2from this website09:11
yellabs-r2i think its html 5 video09:11
lotuspsychjeyellabs-r2: does other video play well?09:11
yellabs-r2have not tried that yet ..09:12
lotuspsychjeyellabs-r2: try a youtube09:12
yellabs-r2tried normal and hd09:18
yellabs-r2of youtube09:18
yellabs-r2that seems okey09:18
yellabs-r2still the question remains , can i acces settings somehow for video quality settings09:19
tvossyellabs-r2, looking at the website, the videos are hosted on youtube, aren't they?09:20
yellabs-r2maybe the stutter ( video ) is due to network ( wifi ) , but there is no networkspeed settings09:20
tvossyellabs-r2, it's the web page's responsibility to provide means for adjusting the video quality09:20
yellabs-r2actually no , they are not..09:21
yellabs-r2sure i understand that, but i think for the phone its not a bad idea for future development to add some control09:22
yellabs-r2that is for video settings / and network wifi speed settings09:22
tvossyellabs-r2, that's not possible, unfortunately. we have no control over the content/content delivery mechanism, so while we could scale down the video on the device, it would still require the full resolution to be transmitted unless the website offers different resolutions themselves09:23
yellabs-r2in theory , it tries to load the highest quality video and that causes stutter / or and / it stutters on wifi speed connection issue's09:23
tvossyellabs-r2, sure, the site needs to announce other/lower resolutions. if those are available, they will be used (see youtube hd setting)09:24
tvossyellabs-r2, the youtube hd setting is provided by youtube, not by the platform09:24
tvossyellabs-r2, I also just tried this one: http://www.actualized.org/articles/free-will-vs-determinism09:25
tvossyellabs-r2, there is a little knob on the bottom right of the video that allowed me to switch to 240p (typical youtube setup)09:25
yellabs-r2hmm, i dont have that botton09:27
yellabs-r2thats odd09:27
yellabs-r2i do see a botton to switch to fullscreen09:27
yellabs-r2wich afcause works fine .. ;)09:27
yellabs-r2what phone do you have ?09:27
lotuspsychjei play video's fine on bq 4.5 here09:28
yellabs-r2it play's but stutters09:28
yellabs-r2over here ..09:29
tvossyellabs-r2, hmmm, krillin, vegetahd and arale09:31
victor_bqHi all! someone to lend a hand?09:32
tvossyellabs-r2, it might well be that I'm using a funky dev version here :) at any rate: I will file a bug to make sure that youtube html5 player quality options are always available09:33
tvossvictor_bq, how can I help?09:33
yellabs-r2that would be great09:34
JamesTaitGood morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Doodle Day! 😃09:35
yellabs-r2also , maybe ,  a way to check and toggle wifi connection settings ( b/bg/n etc )09:36
yellabs-r2but there might be other things that the developers need to adress, i understand that there is more than just this small thing .. ;)09:36
yellabs-r2checked bitrate , its at 65 Mb/s , so that seems to be okey ..09:38
yellabs-r2wifi ..09:38
victor_bqwell we've got a customer worried about performance09:39
victor_bqif you enable rw permissions and do an update && upgrade you can install hto09:39
victor_bqhtop to watch CPU ram consumption etc09:39
victor_bqand wen running htop only 2 cores appear09:40
victor_bqhe feels like we are hidding smthing hehe09:40
tvossvictor_bq, that's a krillin, correct?09:40
victor_bqI'm doing the same in vegeta as we speak09:41
john-mcaleelyvictor_bq, I'm not sure when the krillin goes to max, as it were09:42
tvossvictor_bq, we are also working on improving that specific part09:42
tvossjohn-mcaleely, do we have a public bug tracking the issue already?09:43
john-mcaleelytvoss, not that I'm aware of09:43
victor_bqreporting if you let me :)09:44
tvossvictor_bq, feel free09:44
victor_bqthank you all! =)09:44
tvossvictor_bq, yw09:54
ubot5`Launchpad bug 1542244 in Canonical System Image "htop does not show all cores in krillin and vegeta" [Undecided,New]09:54
mcphailIn the aftermath of the malicious app which was posted to the Store a few months ago, was a fix applied purely to the Store uploads, or was there also a fix applied to the phone platform?10:27
pai was cheching in the wrong channel: are you guys still supporting the choice of having a carousel-alike open app overview on ubuntu phone/touch?10:30
pai mean this: http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Ubuntu-Touch-RTM-Update-10-Important-Milestone-Achieved-Screenshot-Tour-466165-8.jpg10:31
k1l_pa: that is still used10:31
=== stakewinner00_ is now known as stakewinner00
pak1l_, but will it still be the preferred and only option ?10:32
k1l_iirc yes10:32
pak1l_, do yourself think it's a sensible one?10:32
k1l_i am not aware of a setting to change that10:32
padon't you think a simple matrix would work much better?10:32
k1l_where is the issue with that?10:32
pak1l_, like it's not usable?10:32
palike at all?10:33
mcphailpa: it is quick, simple and intuitive. What's not to like?10:33
pait's not on windows10:33
paimagine on a touch10:33
paintuitive: not10:33
paquick: not10:33
pasimple: neither10:33
paplease consider a bloody matrix10:33
k1l_pa: i think its ery usable10:33
palike meego/bb10/jolla10:33
paat least as an option10:33
mcphailpa: try to keep the language polite10:33
k1l_pa: android uses a simial thing, and we all know how much marketshare android got :)10:34
pak1l_, that's the wrong argument, if you ask me.10:34
paBeside, i'm asking here because i really wish ubuntu touch not to be the next firefox OS10:34
k1l_pa: then "but jolla uses that" is not an argument, too10:34
pak1l_, have you used an N9?10:34
k1l_pa: no.10:35
pak1l_, are you an ubuntu touch developer?10:35
pacoz if you were, i'd strongly advice you to use an N9 for a month or two10:35
pathen you would reconsider some of the ubuntu touch desing choices10:35
k1l_glad i dont have to now :)10:36
pak1l_, you don't know, believe me10:36
mcphailpa: I would be hugely surprised if the ubuntu devs would want to spend time changing this. The task switcher is very slick, very fast, works well and looks beautiful. There are more pressing priorities for improvement, imho10:37
paanyway, i hope there will be a second choice to that carousel10:37
pai find it completely unusable10:37
pait was already on windows10:37
paimagine on a touch10:37
k1l_pa: what about the OSS hammer: "its OSS just code a better one"? :)10:37
mcphailpa: you have used it on the Ubuntu phone?10:37
pamcphail, sadly yes10:37
mcphailpa: and what do you find difficult?10:38
pathe conclusion was "interesting. Far far from being ready"10:38
pamcphail, using it10:38
k1l_with the swipe gestures that is a very intuitive task switcher following the swipe gesture10:38
paswipe gestures are okay, but could be better10:39
pathe task switcher is not okay10:39
pabecause what it fails to provide is a sensible overview10:39
paif you have more than 4 apps open, you have to pass them all to find the one you want10:39
MCMiicpa: I like the carousel for daily use. But you don’t have to use it there is the task bar on the left which also lists open applications.10:39
paMCMiic, yeah.. that would better go soon..10:40
k1l_pa: which is a quite fast process on the carousel10:40
MCMiicWhat do you mean?10:40
pai can use your arguments, guys: android doesn't have such bar :)10:40
pathe so beloved launcher canonical keeps forcing everywhere is the most hated interface element of unity10:41
MCMiicYou seem hard to content…10:41
patogether with the fact that on desktop it cant be relocated10:41
paMCMiic, well i used better interfaces10:41
MCMiicI don’t use the bar because the carousel is fine for me10:41
pai wish ubuntu touch to be better10:41
pabecause i would like to use it10:41
MCMiicI’d just like a gesture for closing an app without using the carousel.10:41
k1l_ok, so ubuntu touch should be sailfish os. ok. we got that.10:42
mcphailpa: I suspect choosing an Ubuntu phone was a mistake on your part, if you don't like Unity. What were you expecting..?10:42
paMCMiic, top swipe like on N9? :)10:42
MCMiicBut I think ubuntu touch has far more urgent problems than these details10:42
pamcphail, i didnt choose it. i tried it10:42
pak1l_, no please10:42
mcphailpa: aah. Well, I'd suggest it isn't the platform for you as Unity isn't going away10:43
pak1l_, sailfish sadly is meego done wrong. those guys started from an amazing starting point, and managed to screw it in almost every detail10:43
pai think sailfish is even less usable than ubuntu touch10:43
pamcphail, well i know that. i hope unity to improve10:43
k1l_pa: if you dont like unity. ubuntu touch will not be the GUI for you.10:43
MCMiicMaybe plasma mobile then? I’d love to try it ^^10:44
pabeside, if this is the attitude canonical keeps having, the firefoxOS end is close..10:44
pai mean "this is the way. stick to it or go elsewhere"10:44
k1l_pa: sorry, but your attitude is even worse than what you accuse caninical for10:44
MCMiicI did not fill that reporting bug on ubuntu touch, they listen, at least a bit ^^10:45
pak1l_, it's not for the simple fact that people complained for years about unity, and canonical just kept locking it down more and more10:45
k1l_pa: the attitude is "we do it our way, if you want another one use the open source and make it better"10:45
k1l_pa: there are enough other desktops. just use another one. there are millions of people fine with unity. just not the linux elite. they want their old gnome2 back.10:46
pai do use ubuntu with another DM10:47
k1l_pa: that is fine10:47
paif i cant do the same with ubuntu touch it's very likely i'm not getting an ubuntu phone10:47
paand i fear, for canonical, that most of the users that use ubuntu without unity, will do the same10:47
k1l_so make a better gui for ubuntu-touch10:49
paif it will get merged, i could think about i10:49
k1l_afaik kde mobile uses the ubuntu-touch base for their stuff.10:49
pawhat i essentially would like is the N9 interface, with the problems fixed10:49
mcphailpa: wishing doesn't help. Roll up your sleeves and do the work10:50
k1l_then i would ask the n9 guys to do that. and not others to be the n9 os10:50
mcphailpa: and don't expect everyone to share _your_ vision. There are more wishes than there are developers in the world10:51
pak1l_, n9 is dead as nokia does not exist anymore. some of the guys tried to create sailfish, and we see they screwed and because of that they are in troubles10:57
pamcphail, ok. but at least i tried ubuntu touch and im giving feedback. have you tried what im suggesting you to try?10:57
palook at some video at least11:01
mcphailpa: no, because I'm not in the least bit interested. I have no will to port a UI to the phone. If you want to do it, go ahead or pay someone else to do it.11:08
pathere you go.11:09
mcphailpa: where did you get this sense of entitlement?11:09
pafrom the fact i bothered to check what is out there and what has been done before. you apparently can't care less about the rest, are content with your unity, and even if there are solutions which are much better, you are not in the least bit interested.11:10
paand if this is the sentiment in ubuntu and unity, well.11:10
pathen bye11:10
pafail like firefox os or jolla11:11
=== ondra_ is now known as ondra
JanCI doubt any OS fails by losing 1 user  ;)11:25
JanCunless that user is the financer of the OS11:25
yellabs-r2depends on the user .. ;)11:25
* mcphail searches for one of those ragingly successful N9s to buy11:25
JanCoh, the N9 was pretty good AFAIK11:26
k1l_seems like everyone doesnt only want a android that isnt android, it needs to be meego that isnt meego now too.11:26
mcphailJanC: but quality != success11:26
yellabs-r2is this "happy news"?11:26
mcphailyellabs-r2: of course!11:27
JanCmcphail: the lack of success of the N9 wasn't really because of the OS design though11:27
mcphailJanC: neither was the troll's assertion that adopting the Meego UI was going to be the key to Ubuntu's success or failure11:27
k1l_i waited for a proper new qwertz smartphone very long after i bought my motorola milestone. i thought "everyone needs a keyboard slider". but the facts were: no on beside some few nerds wants that.11:27
yellabs-r2finally convergence11:27
yellabs-r2i had contact with Bq , for my E5 Phone , and asked about convergence11:28
yellabs-r2they had never heard of it..11:28
yellabs-r2can i use the usb to hmdi to get convergence ?11:28
yellabs-r2on this phone ?11:28
JanCmcphail: what I mean is that you can't use the lack of success of the N9 to dismiss its OS/UI design11:28
mcphailyellabs-r2: not on the E5, I think11:28
yellabs-r2E5 ubuntu edition11:28
k1l_imho the bq phones cant do that.11:29
yellabs-r2hmm, can i get usb to hdmi ?11:29
k1l_the video output is not solded onto the SoC11:29
yellabs-r2okey, so all i have to do is open it up , solder it and i am on my way to convergence.. ?11:30
mcphailJanC: no, but you can't deny that MeeGo has been a failure11:30
k1l_yellabs-r2: well. it sounds quite easy :)11:30
mcphailyellabs-r2: send pictures!11:30
JanCmcphail: it mostly failed because of company politics & such11:31
k1l_mcphail: no. it was only shutdown because it was too successful.11:31
mcphailJanC: good things _did_ escape from Nokia, though. Qt, for example, didn't die the way MeeGo did11:31
JanCmany good things also died with Nokia  :)11:34
jfcnotes/reminders  - why export notes to enex file (without connecxion to evernote site ?11:34
ogra_JanC, they arent dead ! they still produce car tires ;)11:40
JanCogra_: I mean their mobile division11:42
JanCthey probably make a lot of other things still11:42
JanClike networking equipment equipment (they just bought Alcatel-Lucent apparently)11:44
jfcnotes/reminders  - why export  .....  or  import ...... notes to enex file (without connecxion to evernote site ?11:45
JanCand AFAIK they plan to sell mobile phones, tablets & such again too11:45
ogra_yep, some chinese ones i heard11:47
JanCmaybe Canonical should try to get them to use Ubuntu  ;)11:47
JanCthey still _do_ have a well-known brand after all11:49
=== _salem is now known as salem_
popeymzanetti, Saviq I have interesting good and bad news. Have you tried associating a bluetooth game controller recently? (Specifically an Ouya one, which is a joypad and mouse combined)?12:14
popey(by mouse I mean it has a touchpad area, so you get a mouse cursor when you associate it)12:15
popeypress _any_ button and it nukes unity/mir12:15
Saviqpopey, .crash file?12:16
Saviqpopey, please clear ~/.cache/upstart/ before nuking and file a bug + attach unity8.log from there12:17
Saviqpopey, and see if syslog says anything about SIGSEGV12:17
popeyqtmir.surfaces: MirSurfaceItem::MirSurfaceItem12:17
popeyQObject: Cannot create children for a parent that is in a different thread.12:17
popey(Parent is DashCommunicator(0xfe96b0), parent's thread is QThread(0xf1ef90), current thread is DashCommunicator(0xfe96b0)12:17
popeyUbuntuKeyboardInfo - socket error: "QLocalSocket::connectToServer: Connection refused"12:17
popeyFail to connect with service: QDBusError("org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Disconnected", "Connection was disconnected before a reply was received")12:17
popeythats the lines that appear as soon as I press a button12:17
Saviqpopey, and it exits "cleanly"...? interesting12:18
popeyWill do as you suggest and file a bug12:18
Saviqpopey, also, "sudo gdb -program `pidof unity8`" then "c" inside gdb, then touch12:18
Saviqpopey, this way we should be able to see if why it exits12:19
popeyProgram received signal SIGTERM, Terminated.12:19
popey0xb6aa4fa8 in QV4::ExecutionEngine::qmlContextObject() const () from /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libQt5Qml.so.512:19
=== dandrader_ is now known as dandrader
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
greybackanpok_: ^^ can Mir deal with game controllers at all? Or does it just ignore them?12:40
popeySaviq, done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/154230512:46
ubot5`Launchpad bug 1542305 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Pressing button on bluetooth game pad crashes unity" [Undecided,New]12:46
anpok_greyback: libinput ignores them at the moment12:46
Saviqpopey, so something just tells unity8 to shut down ;P12:47
Saviqpopey, you sure that button's not ctrl+alt+del or something :P12:47
popeyI actually don't know what that button does12:48
popeyprobably "A"12:48
mcphailogra_: I have Nokian tyres. They're great!12:49
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
popeyassociated gamepad with my desktop and I get nothing in xev, no matter what button I press - but the mouse works12:50
anpok_greyback: there were a few discussions on that topic on the wayland devel list..13:26
anpok_iirc the last consensus was 'no'13:27
greybackanpok_: fair enough. Was just curious in case you knew about mir and gamepads, if it would explain popey's crash above13:27
popeyshame, i wanted to test out some game ideas with a gamepad13:28
anpok_too bad.. for now people are still forced to directly open respective evdev devices..13:29
ogra_which confinement makes kind of impossible13:30
popeyyup, can't do that at all.13:44
=== howefield is now known as howefield_afk
OerHeksyay, march! http://www.zdnet.com/article/here-comes-the-first-ubuntu-linux-tablet/13:54
dobeypopey: obviously you need to write a gamepad-service that has a trust prompt and proxies all device interaction through an annoying dbus API :)14:36
ogra_which surely improves latency a lot :P14:37
yellabs-r2any news on whatsapp , will it come to ubuntu phone ?14:50
yellabs-r2my wife asks .. ;)14:50
matv1yellabs-r2 there is a wishlist for ubuntu on https://uappexplorer.com/wishlist14:54
matv1she could +1 the whatsapp wish14:56
yellabs-r2lot of apps on the list are actually services of big company's14:57
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
yellabs-r2what is the main focus of the coming development of the touch, wich direction is it going ?15:00
pmcgowanright we need some momentum and volume for them to be sufficiently interested15:01
jdstrandmcphail: regarding malicoius app question: both15:04
mcphailjdstrand: thanks. I'd been pondering the dangers of sideloader apps15:07
matv1yellabs-r2 convergence, and after that outer space :)15:08
yellabs-r2convergence , the news ( tablet ubuntu now in store )  did say it has convergence > it needs more work i guess ?15:09
matv1yellabs-r2 yes, but then these things never stop15:10
yellabs-r2you are right, its for ever beta ...15:10
matv1yellabs-r2 haha thats not exactly what i meant15:11
matv1but it´s kinda complicated :D15:11
yellabs-r2outer space , that never stops ?15:11
matv1also if people would just quit muckin about with their game pads and get a move on we´d be somewhere15:12
yellabs-r2so about the whats app, is it not just asking nicely over at whatsapp developers to add the ubuntu touch to the https://web.whatsapp.com/15:13
yellabs-r2and then it works .. ..15:13
matv1yellabs-r2 I would certainly do that If that´s high on your wishlist15:14
matv1every person asking counts15:14
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
yellabs-r2sorry to aks so much..15:16
yellabs-r2but whats the backend of the ubuntu phone browser ?15:16
yellabs-r2webkit .. ?15:16
pmcgowanyellabs-r2, have you tried the webwhatsapp in the store?15:17
pmcgowanthe backend is chromium content api15:17
garroWhy whatsapp when you can have telegram?15:17
yellabs-r2ah i see its actually webkit15:18
yellabs-r2based on ..15:18
yellabs-r2garoo , why not both , more choice = better ?15:18
matv1garro +1. its just about better and safer in every way. I have never looked back since I switched15:19
matv1but it´s a personal choice15:19
matv1ofcource it would require that any client they bring to the store would be open source15:19
matv1that might be a problem for them15:20
yellabs-r2sure there are more important matters then whatsapp15:20
pmcgowanwe dont require apps to be open source15:20
garroI beg to differ, because Whatsapp now apply censorship15:21
jdstrandmcphail: you should still be careful of sideloaded apps since they can specify whatever security policy they want15:22
dobeyjust don't talk to people. most secure chat ever. :)15:24
garrothat's not a chat15:25
dobeyit's inner chat15:26
garroit's good sometimes, but I need also a service that let me chat with other people15:27
garrowithout being spyed15:28
garronor censored15:28
dobeywell good luck :)15:29
garroTelegram seems to be a good service15:30
matv1pmcgowan we may have to be carefull how we phrase things like this then :)15:36
pmcgowanmathe platform is open, doesnt mean apps are :)15:37
pmcgowansorry matv115:37
rpadovanihello all guys, I'm having issues creating 15.04 chroot on 16.04 host. I have the sdk ppa team and the system is updated. This is the error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/14887864/15:38
rpadovaniAny hint? :)15:38
matv1pmcgowan yes, if only, in a perfect world15:38
popeyooh, rpadovani i had that the other day!15:39
dobeymatv1: "everything is as it should be"15:39
popey(hello btw)15:39
popeyzbenjamin_, ^^ see that from rpadovani - i had that in docker, thought it was a docker thing, turns out maybe not15:39
popeyrpadovani, anything special about your setup?15:39
matv1pmcgowan i hope you at least ´urge´them to open-source anything they bring to the store ?15:40
rpadovaninothing at all, I also tried to purge everything, delete cache and config and reinstall it15:40
dobeymatv1: do you urge every web site you access to open source all their content?15:42
matv1dobey i´m not sure that´s a legitimate comparison15:43
matv1in fact i am sure its not :)15:43
dobeymatv1: why not? you don't use an open source browser? :)15:43
dobeymatv1: why should facebook make an open source client app, but not open source the software running on their server and provide open access to their APIs?15:44
matv1dobey i never said they shouldnt15:45
dobeymatv1: you implied we should advocate for one, but suggest a comparison to advocating for the other, is invalid15:45
matv1its just not the same thing. I am a user. not a platform15:46
dobeymatv1: besides, ubuntu on the phone is not a fully open stack anyway.15:47
matv1i know, base firmware and such15:47
dobeymatv1: you imply your opinion is irrelevant because you are a single person? so what relevance is canonical's opinion compared to Google, Apple, and Microsoft?15:47
dobeysure, if Canonical had Google's resources, meaningful advocations for open source clients, and open source drivers, could be made.15:49
dobeyalas, it is not the case15:49
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|lunch
matv1dobey in the comparison (fwiw) a platform is something you have to have before you can stick things on top of them. Like apps. in the user-website analogy the user would be more like the app15:54
matv1a website user needs a website. a website doenst realy need to have a user to be a website15:55
dobeymatv1: no, in that analogy the browser is the platform15:55
matv1ah different analogy15:55
matv1this is getting pretty meta15:56
dobeynot really15:56
dobeyan app doesn't need a user to be an app15:56
JanCdoes anybody know what bq tablet will be released with Ubuntu?16:04
matv1dobey I am not sure this is getting us anywhere :) anyway Ubuntu being -largely- open source as a platform must mean they care about it. It is not a casual choice. Why not try and convince app makers why we believe that is important?16:05
JanCAquaris M10 HD or Aquaris M10 Full HD ?16:05
pmcgowanmatv1, afaik the vast majority of the store apps are open, but I do not have stats16:05
matv1pmcgowan I know. this is mostly an academical discusion :)16:06
JanCdobey: even Google hasn't managed to get open source drivers :)16:07
matv1But I hope that whatsapp when they do come to the store, come with an open source client. And I dont mind telling them that16:08
dobeyJanC: assuming they've been pressuring anyone for it, but Android isn't all open source either16:08
dobeymatv1: tell them :)16:08
matv1I will. Can I tell them dobey agrees ?16:09
dobeyit would be great if they released an open source client16:09
pmcgowanJanC, Full HD per http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/devices16:09
dobeybut i probably still won't use it16:09
JanCdobey: they said they (= some people inside Google) tried at least, IIRC16:09
matv1haha me neither16:10
dobeyJanC: i guess they didn't try very hard, given they bought motorola and still don't have open drivers :)16:10
JanCMotorola doesn't make GPUs16:11
JanCpmcgowan: that says "Full HD (1080p) camera"16:11
dobeyGPU is only one of many things16:11
JanCpmcgowan: but 1.5GHz seems to indicate the Full HD version16:12
dobeybut they didn't make a nexus device either16:12
geniiI'm pretty sure Motorola has licensed PowerVR from Imagination Technologies, and builds processors which have this16:12
pmcgowanJanC, let me check16:12
JanCI'm pretty sure Motorola uses SoCs from other companies (mostly at least)?16:13
pmcgowanJanC, I am told Full HD16:13
JanCpmcgowan: told by Canonical or bq?16:14
pmcgowanCanonical peson with one in hands16:14
JanCI ask because on-line news reports seem to be divided16:14
pmcgowanyep a bit confusing16:15
JanCso might be useful to clarify that  :)16:15
=== sil2100_ is now known as sil2100
mhall119mariogrip: ping16:20
mariogripmhall119: pong16:20
mhall119mariogrip: hey, were you able to finish rebuilding on 15.04?16:20
mariogripmhall119: yeah, no different16:20
mhall119exactly the same errors?16:20
mhall119tvoss: ^^ so it looks like this wasn't caused by toolchain mismatch16:21
mhall119tvoss: abeato: can you guys help mariogrip debug this mir problem?16:22
=== popey_ is now known as popey
tvossmhall119, it's not a mir problem16:48
mhall119well, it's a problem preventing Mir from running16:49
=== chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson
tvossmhall119, sure, but it's a problem with the android side of things, I will read the code, but there is not much else I can do without a phone16:52
mhall119tvoss: dpm has one we could get to you if needed, he'll be back on Monday17:03
tvossmhall119, my plate is pretty much full tbh17:04
mhall119hopefully abeato can help then17:04
mhall119or maybe ondra if it's on the Android side17:05
abeatomhall119, I share plate with tvoss right now :)17:05
abeatomhall119, after mwc things should get better17:05
=== marcoceppi_ is now known as marcoceppi
=== dandrader|lunch is now known as dandrader
mhall119abeato: you're not going to have a fairphone to demo at MWC if we don't get help before then17:21
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
=== tvoss is now known as tvoss|dinner
ondramhall119 is that fairphone 2?17:25
victorpmhall119, we are 100% aware of that17:31
victorpmhall119, the team is working in a priority list and if we can help on the fairphone before we will, but we have other blocking issues that must be resolve first, if those are cleared soon then great if not then we understand that fairphone might not be present at mwc stand17:33
victorpwell, at least not turn on17:33
victorpabeato, tvoss|dinner^^17:34
mhall119victorp: ack, as long as everyone is aware17:34
victorpyes, I think the whole world is aware of it now17:35
ogra_spread more wisdom !17:35
victorpogra_, could help :P17:36
victorpogra_ free?17:36
* victorp hugs ogra_17:36
ogra_lol, no, MWC seems to also be an interesting snappy target ;)17:36
* ogra_ hugs victorp 17:36
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
mcphailjdstrand: yes. I was thinking it would be good to have an app like Permy, but aimed at click packages _before_ they are sideloaded18:38
jdstrandmcphail: running the review tools on it would be a great step18:39
jdstrandapt-get install click-reviewers-tools18:39
jdstrandclick-review /path/to/click18:39
jdstrandthat will tell you if it is doing anything weird with the security policy, etc (that is what the store runs)18:39
mcphailjdstrand: thanks!18:39
jdstrandnp :)18:40
dobeywell, there's probably a reason it isn't in the store and "doing things weird with security policy" is a primary reason18:56
mcphaildobey: yep, but there are many reasons an app can't make it to the store, and most reasons are not malicious18:57
dobeymcphail: well, review-tool won't tell you if it's malicious. you'll have to read the source to figure that out18:58
mcphaildobey: agreed, but I'm just looking to see if an app asks for something reasonable (such as access to sd card) or unreasonable (such as allowed to run a service which isnt needed)19:01
mcphaildobey: i wouldn'5 have the knowledge to do a full source code audit19:02
dobeymcphail: the review tool won't tell you if it's trying to run a service though19:03
mcphaildobey: aargh. That's what I was hoping for.19:04
mcphaildobey: by 'service' I mean something which adds an upstart job. Thougt that had to be done via hooks, and hoped the review tool would pick those up19:05
dobeymcphail: also, even "unconfined" security policy apps are still limited to the app lifecycle policy. you'd have to open up the click and examine things to see if it has a .desktop file that's trying to run an "app" which doesn't havea  UI (which is then somewhat free of lifecycle management)19:06
dobeymcphail: no, clicks can't install new upstart jobs19:06
mcphaildobey: ok. Someone had told me non-default store apps could do that19:07
dobeymcphail: i don't think so, no. being in the store or not doesn't change the basics of what can be included in a .click19:08
mcphaildobey: I think it was mzanetti who mentioned that apps in the Open Store might be able to do that. I probably got it wrong19:09
mcphaildobey: That led me to worry that a hook would start the service before the app was opened, and before it could be inspected with Permy19:10
dobeymcphail: not afaict. there is i think an issue where "apps" (.desktop files) which run the main process which doesn't have a gui that connects to mir and has a window in unity8, will not be paused; and some things were trying to rely on that, but i am not entirely sure if that's still the case19:13
jdstrandmcphail: there is no way to start a service in click. what you may be thinking of is there is an app (iirc) in the store that allows you to add an exception for an app for application lifecycle19:14
mcphaildobey: yes, that still works. I abuse that in one of my apps19:14
jdstrandmcphail: that would allow an app, when launched, to launch a long running process in the background19:14
jdstrandbut there is nothing in click for a background service19:14
dobeyoh right, there's that tweak app that allows you to do that too i guess19:15
jdstrandI haven't done that myself, but istr people doing stuff like that19:15
mcphailjdstrand: ok. mzanetti had mentioned something when we were talking about putting syncthing in the Open Store. I didnt really understand how the upstart job would be added. I assumed there was a hook19:16
jdstrandmaybe that is future work. there currently isn't a hook19:27
dobeyi don't think a hook to allow adding upstart jobs is going to be the solution to the background processing problem19:43
dobeymany reasons, not least of which is that we're moving away from upstart19:43
=== tvoss|dinner is now known as tvoss
* tvoss gets back to putting finishing touches on feedback to lifecycle bugs19:46
sergiusenspopey, pmcgowan hey, is it a known issue that the notes/evernote integration does not support shared notes?20:41
sergiusensmy lovely wife switched to an ubuntu phone and she can't see my shared notepads20:41
=== Bray90820_ is now known as Bray90820
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
mzanettidobey, fwiw, if an app is unconfined it can create an upstart file22:47
mzanettialso, openstore has a feature to generate an upstart file for packages that have a service hook in the manifest22:47
mcphailmzanetti: so this wouldn't be automatically available to a sideloaded .click package which didn't have full unconfined permissions? That's good to know23:05
=== keithzg_ is now known as keithzg
dobeymzanetti: well, "an unconfined app can create" is different from "a click package can include." an unconfined app can't create the upstart file until after it's been run, so you'd have to examine the code to verify whether it does that or not. as for service hook, how are you doing that? openstore requires installing a .deb that has that hook?23:59

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