[00:00] <flocculant> bluesabre: right - I knew you would which is why I went bluesabre > instead of ochosi > :p
[00:00] <bluesabre> :D
[00:00] <flocculant> what can I say - there are only 3 of us :p
[00:01] <flocculant> I vote for making web/debian liason/docs release team till 18.04 :D
[00:01] <Unit193> Whhhhut?
[00:02] <flocculant> *shrug* no - not many people tested that :p
[00:02] <Unit193> I'm reading now, I wasn't before.
[00:02] <flocculant> oh rite 
[00:02] <flocculant> need to work more on the keywords
[00:02] <flocculant> :p
[00:05] <bluesabre> :D
[00:06] <Unit193> flocculant: I liked the idea of expiring at this LTS!
[00:07] <flocculant> I like the idea of expiring full stop at this juncture
[00:16] <Unit193> But, but, but...  I just upgraded another system to Xenial!  I'm trying to help! :(
[00:32] <bluesabre> Unit193: too hacky in your opinion? https://paste.ubuntu.com/15012568/
[00:33] <flocculant> bluesabre: actually working on hardware here now 
[00:34] <bluesabre> flocculant: as in, doing hardware work or running xenial in a non-vm?
[00:35]  * bluesabre realizes he didn't test with a modified config
[00:36] <Unit193> What about  "Any shell metacharacters will be escaped, so arbitrary shell code cannot be inserted here."  ?
[00:36] <Unit193> man dh_installdeb
[00:37]  * flocculant wonders which unasked question bluesabre refers to :)
[00:38] <flocculant> unless the 'are you brave enough'
[00:38] <flocculant> which I understand :D
[00:39] <flocculant> talking to robert ancell bout my issue - which confusing me 
[00:39] <Unit193> For trusty, should in theory be able to just boot a vm and install xubuntu-default-settings_16.04.1_all.deb
[00:39] <Unit193> dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}\n' | grep obso  doooon't spot the xubuntu files. >_>
[00:39] <bluesabre> boot vm, install newer version of greeter, tweak lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf, install that package
[00:40] <Unit193> However, do you want to move their config to user? :P
[00:40] <bluesabre> hmmm
[00:41] <flocculant> lightrdm just completely confuses me now
[00:41] <Unit193> etc should override, soo.
[00:41] <bluesabre> good point
[00:42]  * bluesabre spends a lot of time doing needless work
[00:43] <bluesabre> rm_conffile should be sufficient
[00:44] <bluesabre> or maybe that's not even required
[00:44] <bluesabre> >.<
[00:44]  * flocculant feels the same way sometimes :)
[00:45] <Unit193> bluesabre: Well, unless the user edited the file. :P
[00:45]  * bluesabre opts to not rm_conffile or mv_conffile
[00:51]  * flocculant is still confused with lightdm
[00:51] <flocculant> do we install stuff to /usr
[00:51] <flocculant> then if people want to fiddle point them to making a new file in /etc
[00:51] <flocculant> ?
[00:52] <Unit193> flocculant: Yes.
[00:52] <Unit193> flocculant: Shipping only the bare minimum in usr/
[00:53] <flocculant> autologin does my head in 
[00:54] <flocculant> might try and do and "this is default" "this is default no password" type affair
[00:55] <Unit193> FWIW, /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf is shipped with everything explained and commented out.
[00:55] <Unit193> And, IIRC, defaults as the values.
[00:56] <bluesabre> yup
[00:57] <flocculant> Unit193: find autologin in there where "everything explained and commented out"
[00:57] <bluesabre> autologin is part of lightdm conf, not the greeter
[00:57] <bluesabre> (iirc)
[00:57] <flocculant> perhaps I can't see that because of bug 1508192
[00:58] <flocculant> bluesabre: even so - autologin should not be hidden in 370million google pages
[00:59] <flocculant> where the one you actually need is page 79 :)
[00:59] <bluesabre> flocculant: agreed
[00:59] <bluesabre> probably need to document it better
[00:59] <bluesabre> on the ubuntu wiki
[00:59] <bluesabre> or something
[01:00] <flocculant> or our's 
[01:00] <flocculant> somewhere for sure :)
[01:01] <flocculant> oops
[01:01] <flocculant> that was a full on teenage shreak :D
[01:02] <flocculant> or swear 
[01:02] <Unit193> Wait, people use mousepad to edit system conf?!
[01:03] <flocculant> Unit193: only people who are lazy enough to use the shortcut they have kicking about in thunar'smenu 
[01:03] <bluesabre> I do in a vm if I am too lazy to install vim
[01:03] <flocculant> that they copied from years back
[01:03] <Unit193> bluesabre: vi, or nano!
[01:04] <flocculant> bluesabre: wtf - does something really simple like nano not work once you can code?
[01:04] <bluesabre> I've gotten too vimmy, nano no can do
[01:04] <flocculant> omg
[01:04] <Unit193> ...That's OK, I doubt I know how to use the GUI as well as others. :P
[01:04] <flocculant> I shall remember to not code then :p
[01:04] <bluesabre> lol
[01:04] <flocculant> Unit193: I can do 2/3'ds :p
[01:04] <Unit193> bluesabre: There's benefits of both, Ctrl+k is something I miss in vim for example.
[01:05] <bluesabre> code in atom or geany, configs in vim
[01:05] <flocculant> I just remember fails with vi/vim and sudoers 
[01:05] <flocculant> I do like atom - it remembers stuff
[01:06] <flocculant> I actually used it too ;)
[01:11] <bluesabre> flocculant: found a bug in my ubuntu conf for the greeter, so things will look a bit different (as they were actually intended) on the next upload
[01:12] <flocculant> ok
[01:12] <flocculant> bluesabre: so - clean install it - upgrade from it ? 
[01:12] <bluesabre> (thank Unit193 reminding me that the greeter had a template with examples)
[01:12] <bluesabre> flocculant: it will work fine with an upgrade
[01:13] <flocculant> bluesabre: we need perhaps a get-together on what we need to test
[01:13] <bluesabre> flocculant: alrighty
[01:13] <bluesabre> should just be a difference in layout
[01:13] <flocculant> I can even do it with a cam so we are actaully talking :D
[01:13] <flocculant> or a phone :)
[01:14] <bluesabre> :D
[01:14] <flocculant> AS LONG AS YOU PAY
[01:14] <bluesabre> then you'll hear my panicked "that's not right", "crap", "that wasn't supposed to be found" ramblings
[01:14] <flocculant> or free cam :D
[01:14] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[06:39] <bluesabre> Unit193: so, an observation I have made while working on these packages, the config files don't go away on their own without explicitly using rm_conffile, even without changes
[06:40] <bluesabre> it might actually be best to just rm_conffile and have users recustomize, particularly since there is little config and the params have changed in the last few greeter releases
[06:44] <Unit193> bluesabre: Files in /etc?  Yeah they won't get removed if you remove the package unless you purge.
[06:44] <bluesabre> gotcha
[06:45] <bluesabre> well, with rm_conffile, user-made changes will at least be backed up, so i don't see any significant downsides to it
[06:45] <Unit193> Config files, and marked as such.  You can use a hack but everyone will hate you for it. :P
[06:45] <Unit193> OK, just as long as you're aware.
[06:46] <bluesabre> cool
[06:46] <Unit193> And, man you're up late.
[06:46] <bluesabre> yeah
[06:46] <bluesabre> late dinner, indigestion
[06:46] <bluesabre> guzzling water and burping a lot
[06:46] <Unit193> Ouch.
[06:47] <bluesabre> :D
[06:47] <Unit193> I win, just finished Battleship now Criminal Minds.  Tata.
[06:47] <bluesabre> :)
[07:19] <bluesabre> other than "wily" sneaking into this commit (corrected in 597), that should do it for x-d-s, and I've got the greeter package ready to go as well
[07:19] <bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/596
[07:19] <bluesabre> I'll upload both in the morning
[07:21] <bluesabre> night all
[07:57] <ochosi> flocculant: maybe not relevant anymore, but i don't remember printer stuff getting removed on installing gnome-software
[09:11] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: didn't really mean you - I know where to hassle you :D
[09:13] <flocculant> ochosi: thanks - that's odder than bluesabre - pretty sure you were looking in a vm at the same time as I was originally
[09:50] <ochosi> flocculant: well at least i don't *
[09:50] <ochosi> *remember* ;)
[09:51] <flocculant> :)
[09:51] <flocculant> I'll test it all again later - I had add-apt crashing on me last night - that didn't help at all :p
[10:26] <Unit193> gnome-software just hit repos.
[10:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: Nice job!
[11:26] <bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded new lightdm-gtk-greeter and xubuntu-default-settings. To make it easier, wait until both hit the archive before upgrading and kicking the tires :)
[11:27] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/2.0.1-2ubuntu3
[11:27] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/16.04.1
[11:27] <bluesabre> respectively ;)
[11:29] <bluesabre> back to bed for me, bbl
[12:35] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, Unit193, flocculant, resuming from suspend gives me no networking and reboot/shutdown takes me to the login screen
[12:35] <slickymasterWork> did any of you guys face that?
[12:35] <slickymasterWork> in Xenial, of course
[12:50] <knome> pleia2, slickymasterWork, please look at http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/series
[12:51] <slickymasterWork> morning knome :)
[12:51]  * slickymasterWork checks the link
[12:52] <slickymasterWork> just one remark knome 
[12:53] <slickymasterWork> the final question in the media players article
[12:53] <slickymasterWork> not sure if it's worth to have it 
[12:53] <slickymasterWork> what was your idea behinfd it?
[12:53] <slickymasterWork> * behind
[12:54] <knome> it's not useful in the sense of giving users additional information, but it draws the developers closer to the community by talking about human things
[12:54] <knome> (eg. not only ever about technology!)
[12:54] <slickymasterWork> fair point
[12:55] <slickymasterWork> my fear that it can somehow escalate obfuscating the main point we'd like to be addressed
[12:55] <slickymasterWork> but I do see your point
[12:55] <knome> well it says briefly
[12:55] <knome> i was thinking about a few lines at most
[12:56] <knome> where the rest of the article would be worth of 3-4 paragraphs (maybe)
[12:56] <knome> though i don't know if everybody wishes to be so wordy
[12:56] <slickymasterWork> ok
[12:56] <knome> but *shrug*
[12:56] <knome> it's very intentional there :)
[12:57] <knome> we'll edit if flocculant goes on rambling 134534 pages long about 70's music
[12:57] <slickymasterWork> this article reminds me item (yet to be done) about removing the references of gmb in the documentation
[12:57] <knome> yeah...
[12:57] <knome> that said, do you think there would be some other questions that we SHOULD ask?
[12:57] <slickymasterWork> I'll take care of that one
[12:57] <knome> or that could be useful for say, your article
[12:57] <knome> because i totally wrote the questions based on what i want to say
[12:58] <knome> (maybe all of them aren't even that meaningful for many here)
[12:58] <slickymasterWork> no, I'd just add, in the first media players question, the streaming habit
[12:58] <knome> ah
[12:59] <slickymasterWork> lots of people these days just prefer to stream, instead of collecting their music in physical medias
[13:01] <slickymasterWork> but this of course takes with it the capacity/availability of a media player to stream content from spotify, soundcloud, etc
[13:01] <knome> yeah, but i don't know if any app works with for example spotify
[13:01] <knome> sure
[13:01] <slickymasterWork> exactly
[13:01] <knome> i've led to think that the team uses a good spread of media managers
[13:02] <knome> it might not be totally comprehensive, but then, this isn't about presenting all linux media manager
[13:02] <knome> +s
[13:02] <slickymasterWork> and just a few used the 'official' one
[13:03] <slickymasterWork> I for one, never come to peace with gmb
[13:03] <knome> and ultimately, once we know what media managers will be presented and notice a popular manager is missing, we can just throw in an "other alternatives" article
[13:03] <slickymasterWork> yes
[13:04] <slickymasterWork> on a different subject knome, have you already tested xenial?
[13:04] <knome> i've installed it once on vbox
[13:05] <bluesabre> flocculant: both are in the archive now
[13:05] <bluesabre> slickymasterWork: not seen that, heading out the door though
[13:05] <slickymasterWork> lol, was about to ask you that
[13:06] <slickymasterWork> knome, will you be aroung this afternoon?
[13:06]  * slickymasterWork has to go lunch now
[13:07] <knome> to be or not to be
[13:07] <slickymasterWork> :)
[13:07] <knome> that's the question...
[13:07] <knome> erm, i'll be leaving from home within an hour
[13:07] <knome> i don't know if i'll take my laptop with me
[13:07] <slickymasterWork> well, I'll ping you
[13:07] <slickymasterWork> if not, tonight
[13:07] <knome> yep, do that
[13:07] <slickymasterWork> ok
[13:07] <knome> yeah, i'll be around on the evening
[13:07] <slickymasterWork> ->
[18:10] <flocculant> knome: so I'll say "anything but country or western" then :p
[19:16] <knome> flocculant, that works :P
[19:24] <ochosi> evening all
[19:30] <knome> hello ochosi 
[19:32] <ochosi> i really need to catch up on a few thinsg
[19:32] <ochosi> sry i haven't been able to be around much the last week or so, lotta work @work
[19:33] <knome> :)
[19:34] <davmor2> flocculant: these are about as close to country and western as I get, do those count? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRvCvsRp5ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckom3gf57Yw
[19:37] <knome> just sent a mail to the devel mailing list so i don't have to repeat myself too many times
[19:37] <knome> ochosi, please read :)
[19:53] <bluesabre> knome: good ideas
[20:02] <ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
[20:02] <ochosi> how come you're around at this hour?
[20:03] <bluesabre> Pulled out my phone
[20:03] <ochosi> yup, good ideas knome 
[20:03] <ochosi> oh i see
[20:03] <bluesabre> So not actually around ;)
[20:03] <ochosi> :>
[20:03] <bluesabre> bbl
[20:24] <ochosi> bluesabre, knome: hey, say, did you know about https://unsplash.com/ ? (for the wallpaper "contest")
[20:25] <knome> no
[20:25] <ochosi> there are some really nice pics there
[20:25] <ochosi> and it's creative commons zero license https://unsplash.com/license
[20:26] <ochosi> so we should be able to use those without problems
[20:26] <knome> mhm
[20:26] <ochosi> this one i like a lot: https://unsplash.com/photos/RH-17EIWprY
[20:26] <ochosi> nice colors
[20:26] <knome> not bad
[20:26] <ochosi> (note that the preview differs from the final pic, as it adds vignetting on top and bottom)
[20:27] <ochosi> there are a lot of pics with people in them, but also enough good ones without
[20:27] <ochosi> plus the resolution is sufficient (in all pics i tried)
[20:47] <pleia2> knome: heh, they haven't responded to the ticket, but dev.x.o now exists, pointing to the wrong address
[20:48] <pleia2> I'll respond
[20:48] <knome> lol
[20:48] <knome> thanks
[22:37] <bluesabre> evening all
[22:50] <bluesabre> hey slickymaster, I'd check your system logs to see if there are any events that stick out
[22:51] <slickymaster> will do bluesabre, tomorrow
[22:51] <bluesabre> slickymaster: cool
[22:51] <slickymaster> but I do have a confirmation of it, bluesabre 
[22:52] <bluesabre> its unlikely to be light-locker or xfce4-power-manager directly causing it
[22:52] <bluesabre> buttttt, its entirely possibly
[22:52] <slickymaster> one of the UF admins faced the same with today's image
[22:52] <knome> butt?
[22:52] <bluesabre> knome: butt
[22:52] <slickymaster> who's butt?
[22:52] <knome> pleia2, lyyyyz! sean is calling me names!
[22:52] <bluesabre> :D
[22:52] <bluesabre> >:D
[22:53] <pleia2> har
[22:53] <slickymaster> mummy's baby :P
[22:54] <knome> slickymaster, who isn't?
[22:54] <slickymaster> lol
[22:54] <slickymaster> fair point
[23:12] <knome> time to hack with the xubuntu theme for a change a bit
[23:13] <Unit193> bluesabre: Anything I need to be helping with?
[23:13] <knome> Unit193, put your name in the wiki with your media manager of choice so i can bother you later about writing an article
[23:13] <knome> Unit193, no, you can't tell you love gmb so much now that you pass the stick to me.
[23:14] <bluesabre> Unit193: know of any pressing issues I should be focused on?
[23:14] <slickymaster> don't fall for that Unit193 
[23:15] <slickymaster> it might seem like a mermeid voice, but it's a trap
[23:15]  * slickymaster hides
[23:15] <knome> slickymaster, yes, please add yourself there too
[23:15] <knome> and you, bluesabre 
[23:15] <knome> and you, pleia2 
[23:15] <bluesabre> knome: I'll think on it
[23:15] <knome> 4 birds with one stone
[23:15] <slickymaster> darn
[23:16] <bluesabre> I have a music collection, but only stream via pandora or spotify
[23:16] <knome> bluesabre, then let's write about that then
[23:16] <Unit193> Looks like I have vlc, vlc-nox, and ffmpeg installed.
[23:16] <knome> *one then
[23:16] <Unit193> And like bluesabre, I use pianobar a fair bit.
[23:16] <knome> Unit193, we can do that too. didn't you do some mpd stuff at some point?
[23:16] <slickymaster> I'll speak aboutmy vinyl collection
[23:16] <knome> slickymaster, you can do that briefly
[23:16] <knome> slickymaster, and please remember, nothing about the vinyl pants!
[23:16] <knome> NO PICTURES EITHER
[23:17] <Unit193> knome: Really I just tend to use players, not managers.
[23:17] <slickymaster> lmao
[23:17] <bluesabre> knome: added it, its not a media manager, but you can scoff at me later
[23:17] <knome> Unit193, i really think that's okay too.
[23:17] <knome> bluesabre, ta
[23:17] <bluesabre> maybe I'll see where rhythmbox is currently
[23:17] <knome> Unit193, i mean, we do want to show alternatives people can do
[23:18] <Unit193> pianobar, vlc, and I've used mpv once or twice. :P
[23:18] <bluesabre> or tomahawk
[23:18] <knome> i added the history question too if you want to talk about things you used before
[23:18] <pleia2> knome: but I use mplayer
[23:18] <knome> i have used stuff from amarok to listen to mpd before..
[23:18] <knome> pleia2, that's fine as well :)
[23:18] <Unit193> bluesabre: I like Debian's tomahawk better. :/
[23:18] <pleia2> knome: I will look like an old lady
[23:18] <bluesabre> Unit193: oh?
[23:18] <knome> but yeah, maybe we want to group some of the "i don't use any media manager" together
[23:18] <Unit193> nightingale: Installed: 1.13a-0~13196~ubuntu15.10.1
[23:18] <knome> but still, please add yourself
[23:19] <knome> so i can track it all
[23:19] <pleia2> k
[23:19] <Unit193> !info tomahawk unstable
[23:19] <Unit193> !info python-tomahawk unstable
[23:19] <knome> (since no-one from you will want to lead this thing anyway ;()
[23:20] <bluesabre> Unit193: that... could be used to play music
[23:21] <Unit193> bluesabre: Yep!  moc baby!
[23:30] <Unit193> bluesabre: And no, I don't know of anything you should be looking into.  Unless you want to fix the PPA versions. :P
[23:31] <bluesabre> oh yeah
[23:31] <bluesabre> should go through those
[23:31]  * Unit193 shrugs.
[23:51] <slickymaster> knome, do I have permissions to add a namespace to the wiki?
[23:52] <knome> good question. try?
[23:53] <slickymaster> will, just fixing the xubuntu-docs url, in the contacts page
[23:53] <knome> :)
[23:53] <slickymaster> currently there it's https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-docs
[23:53] <slickymaster> that last 's' doesn't belong
[23:54]  * bluesabre expects knome to rename xubuntu-doc to xubuntu-docs
[23:55] <slickymaster> it isn't yet bluesabre 
[23:55] <knome> i do find it a bit weird without s too
[23:55] <knome> but changing a team name, meh
[23:55] <knome> and not even name, the slug that's pointed to from gazillion places
[23:55] <bluesabre> (yeah, don't)
[23:55] <knome> yep
[23:58] <slickymaster> yes I can knome 
[23:58] <slickymaster> done
[23:58] <knome> can what?
[23:58] <slickymaster> create a namespace
[23:58] <knome> ah :)
[23:58] <slickymaster> ãdded the documentation entrance
[23:59] <knome> when you add "[23:59] <slickymaster> yes, I know
[23:59] <slickymaster> done that I created it
[23:59] <slickymaster> + when
[23:59] <knome> :)