ScottKvalorie: seems like mattermost is a way better idea than slack.04:09
valorieScottK: one of my friends is working out a matrix <> irc bridge too05:22
valoriethere are alternatives05:22
ScottKI've used some of the IRC/email alternatives and honestly never saw any advantage.05:23
ScottKslack though had some serious downsides, including terms of service that were pretty unacceptable.05:23
ScottK(on top of the standard it's not free software)05:24
valoriewell, I love irc more than anything else05:45
valoriehowever, many students can't use IRC because it's blocked05:46
valorieand it is harder to get going than things you can use on your phone such as Telegram05:46
valorielowering barriers to entry is a Good Thing imo05:47
valorieI understand that Debian has a different take on that05:47
ScottKNo, I think Debian doesn't mind lowering barriers to entry.05:52
valoriesure, but the emphasis is on security05:53
valorienot popularity05:53
ScottKBTW, if you run a quassel core, you can pick an arbitrary port for the client/core connection so if you can get the client installed on the computers it's very unlikely you can't get around the block.05:53
ScottKStability even more.05:53
ScottKYou could probably even use port 80 so they can't block it without also blocking web browsing.05:55
ScottKAt least not at the port level.05:55
valorieScottK: hard to talk newbie junior or senior high students into doing that, esp. if they are still on Win or Mac06:29
valorieand some of even the GSoC students from poor countries don't have a whole lot of options06:30
ScottKI recently tried to suggest to the technology and engineering teacher at my youngest's middle school that it might make sense to direct the kids that are really interesting towards free software projects.06:34
ScottKShe was too horrified at the prospect of subjecting the kids to on line interactions with adults to even really process what I was suggesting.06:35
ScottKSo yeah, I get resistence.06:35
valoriehuh, so she's not heard of GCi?06:40
valoriethey actually do keep the kids rather separated from the mentors06:40
valoriemost of the communication is through the webapp06:40
valorieunless the student decides to use IRC or Telegram or so06:40
ScottKThey've done "Hour of code".06:47
ScottKThey're biggest tech extra-curricular is www.firstlegoleague.org06:48
ScottKWhich is good, but I think the kids learn more about project management than coding.06:48
valorieGCi is great, since it is code plus other tasks06:49
valoriehelps kids find their place by trying different stuff out06:49
ScottKFor leaning about principles of programming, she's using http://sonic-pi.net/ at home (running very nicely on a Kubuntu Trusty box that I haven't migrated to Debian yet.06:51
ScottKShe thinks she's making music, she's really learning how to program.06:52
ScottKhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK1mBqKvIyU is a great demonstration by the lead developer.06:53
ScottKHe goes on about Rasberry Pi, but it'll work on most any non-ancient Linux.06:53
valorieneat, I'll watch that once I'm done with the news06:55
BluesKajHi all11:48
clivejohi BluesKaj11:48
BluesKajhi clivejo11:48
lordievaderGood afternoon.12:04
* clivejo wonders how libksane became libkf5sane, surely it should me libkf5ksane?12:05
* clivejo scratches head12:05
clivejohi lordievader12:06
lordievaderHey clivejo, how are you doing?12:06
lordievaderclivejo: Still confused or did I miss the period were you weren't confused? :P12:07
clivejoseems Im in a constant state of confusion!12:08
clivejosoee: how are you today?12:11
lordievaderclivejo: How fun :)12:11
clivejolordievader: would you do me a testimonial ?12:13
lordievaderSure, do you have a wiki page>12:17
clivejoI do  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/~clivejo12:18
lordievaderclivejo: Done ;)12:27
clivejothanking you !12:27
clivejoits quite interesting reading what other people think of you!12:28
lordievaderI'm sure it is ;)12:32
BluesKajwhere does one add the testomonial there?12:42
BluesKajor does one have to be a member as well , since I'm not12:43
mparilloBluesKaj: I added one, even though I am not a member. Worst case: It just gets ignored.12:50
BluesKajmparillo, ok, but how? maybe I'm missing something12:51
mparilloFirst you have to sign in to the wiki with your launchpad Open ID (confusingly named Ubuntu One)12:52
mparilloThat will change immutable page to a link near the top labeled edit.12:52
mparilloIt can be slow and painful.12:52
BluesKajoh that BS, sorry I tied that before and it was tedious and confusing for me ,and I don't think I ever resolved my username and pw12:55
BluesKajI'm getting too old for bureaucratic mazes. it's too bad it has to be this way12:56
BluesKajmparillo, I managed to login , but I see no edit option13:15
mparilloDoes it still say immutable page?13:20
mparilloIf so, I just refresh my browser. For some reason I have better luck on rekonq and google-chrome-stable than on firefox.13:21
BluesKajmparillo, I'm on the ubuntu membership wiki page 13:28
soeeclivejo: i feel like a *** :(13:28
BluesKajassuming that ain't the right place13:28
BluesKajimmutable page is listed but not linking13:29
BluesKajmaybe I'll try with chrome, FF isn't getting me anywhere, unless someone else has some suggestions13:31
soeeyofel, clivejo: https://www.kde.org/announcements/kde-frameworks-5.19.0.php13:31
clivejosoee: we know about frameworks, yofel has asked to hold back for now13:56
clivejoneed to get apps 15.12.1 finished13:58
BluesKajclivejo, I tried to find my way to give you a well deserved decent testimonial, but unfortunately I didn't succeed :/13:59
clivejostill a lot of red - http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/applications/build_status_15.12.1_xenial.html13:59
clivejono problem BluesKaj, It took me two days to be able to log in to create the page14:00
clivejoI understand how difficult it is!14:00
BluesKajclivejo, it was much easier before that ubuntu one ended up in the mix14:02
clivejoI cant log into the kubuntu one :(14:03
clivejothey share the same backend, just different skin14:03
clivejobut the login process throws lots of errors14:04
clivejoI dunno why we cant just have a mediawiki installation14:04
soeevalorie: we have Mattermost now ?14:07
soeei had to wait like 5 min to get there :D14:07
BluesKajjust got list of script errors when I clicked on login , then continue14:09
soeeyofel: we should add latest kdeconnect to Xenial archive as it only works with current mobile app as it should (allows browsing phone from dolphin)14:17
clivejois there a workflow for that, ie can I tag packages I think should be in the archive?14:19
clivejo!info calligra xenial14:20
ubottucalligra (source: calligra): extensive productivity and creative suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.9.7-0ubuntu9 (xenial), package size 9 kB, installed size 64 kB14:20
clivejoI have 2.9.10 packaged in my PPA14:20
clivejoyofel sgclark: these ktp-* packages are all telepathy?17:17
clivejoseems to be a lot of changes, do we go with debians solutions?17:20
clivejosgclark: any luck with PIM?17:22
sgclarkhaven't looked today, have commitments this morning, but will do some work this afternoon17:23
ScottKvalorie: good chance you'll get sonic-pi in Xenial. https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/sonic-pi_2.9.0~repack-1.html            18:15
clivejohi DalekSec19:40
clivejohi DarinMiller19:40
DalekSecclivejo: Howdy.19:50
DarinMillerhi clivejo!19:50
clivejothere is life in here!19:50
DarinMillerclivejo: I have gone through most of the guidelines as suggested by https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-packaging.  I am still unclear on several things.19:53
clivejowhat you unclear about?19:54
DarinMillerI am confused by the pbuild section.19:54
clivejoahh that is a bit confusing19:54
clivejowe use pbuild to test building a package in a clean environment19:55
DarinMilleryofel mentioned adding PPA's to the chroot and to be careful. Not sure what he means or how that is accomplished.19:55
clivejowe can create environments with differing specs on the same physical machive19:56
DarinMillerI have used chroot to in live boot to recover a grub install, but that's the extent of my chroot knowledge.19:56
clivejofor example if your host system is wily 64bit, you can create a pbuild to build xenial 32bit packages19:57
clivejopbuild just puts a nice bubble around it19:58
DarinMillerSo is packing "safe" to do on our main machines, or should I create a separate boot instance just for packaging.19:58
clivejonot really no19:58
clivejobecause your machine dont be clean19:58
clivejoyou could have a PPA enabled, or installed a package from somewhere else19:59
clivejoa pbuild container pulls in fresh copies of all the build packages19:59
DarinMillerSo create a vm for packaging?19:59
DarinMillerauh, ok19:59
clivejosometimes I might want to build a package using only the staging PPA's20:00
clivejoor even test cutting edge stuff from the KCI PPA's20:00
clivejoa pbuild container can do that and leave my main system unchanged20:01
clivejoalso saves your main system from installing the many -dev packages which are no use to you on a daily bases20:02
DarinMillerThe pbuilder howto in the kubuntu-packaging has a long list of items but not much of a "howto" guideline. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto)20:04
DarinMillerNevermind, the ")" at the end causes a navigation annomally.20:05
DarinMillerSo use pbuilder and a vm or "either one"?20:06
clivejopbuilder is the easier one20:08
clivejoonce it is configured we can build the source and throw it at the pbuild container we choose20:09
DarinMillerOK.  I will read thru the pbuilder docs.  Reading thru the debian pkg'ing stuff last night killed my insomia straight away :).20:10
clivejotends to do that!20:10
clivejomakes ones eye lids very heavy20:10
clivejothe lintian and copyright docs are equally as riveting !!20:11
DarinMillerso you have a wiley and xenial pbuilder "session" or can you only have one pbuilder enviro at a time?20:16
DarinMillerdidn't read far enough.  Looks like pbuilder-dist will manage multi-architectures.20:18
clivejoI have a number of them20:24
clivejofor different jobs20:24
clivejothe most useful is a amd64 xenial 20:35
clivejosgclark yofel: I dont know how to merge ktp-text-ui, how can debian drop the epoch without a rename?21:15
sgclarkheh I don't know either :( yofel ^^21:16
clivejomaster doesnt have a epoch :/21:18
sgclarkfairly certain if we do then we have to keep, yofel needs to verify though21:18
valoriesoee_: if you want to try out mattermost, you can -- an Ubuntu guy set up a testing "droplet"21:21
clivejowhat is mattermost?21:25
valoriebasically free software Slack21:26
valorieI've not seen anything yet that beats IRC, or works well enough with IRC21:26
valoriealthough tdfischer's experiments with Matrix are looking good21:27
valorieclivejo: how close are we to having all of Applications done?21:33
valorielink for the Matrix stuff, all very technical stuff: https://oob.systems/chat/#/room/#pto:oob.systems21:38
clivejojust the difficult ones to do!21:38
valorieheh, that's how I usually work -- tackle the easy stuff first, to get the momentum and numbers going21:42
sgclarkno, I was the only one working on them forever, the hard ones are still left because is most case dependencies were not done. But yes it went TONS faster with help, so thank you clivejo21:44
sgclarkclivejo: libkmahjongg is the same as the other rename you did21:50
clivejosgclark: did you do a merge already - http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/applications/kmahjongg.git/21:53
valorieah, thanks for that explanation, sgclark21:53
valorieand all your work21:53
sgclarknahhis name is on trello for it, but he had made note that he needed help21:53
sgclarkpim is still a disaster of course21:54
sgclarkcircular deps, fun stuff *grumbles*21:54
clivejosgclark: isnt it working in debian?21:59
sgclarkclivejo: gah sorry did not see your highight. looks like I did21:59
sgclarkclivejo: what working?21:59
sgclarkno idea22:00
sgclarkbut I have lintain screaming at me after the merge..22:00
clivejosgclark: kopete is checked off, but not showing on - http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/applications/build_status_15.12.1_xenial.html22:14
clivejodid you upload it?22:14
sgclarkclivejo I uploaded to wrong place a bunch, though I got them all to right place but must have missed it, will upload now22:19
clivejono prob :)22:19
sgclarkhmm missing dep on kmbox, but that one is done23:04
sgclarkmy brain hurts23:05
clivejosgclark yofel: what we doing with spectacle?  We already have it in the archive23:05
clivejo!info spectacle xenial23:05
ubottuspectacle (source: spectacle): RPM Spec file generator and management tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.25-1 (xenial), package size 64 kB, installed size 496 kB23:05
sgclarkno idea sorry23:05
clivejoI guess debian dont have it, so they are ok?23:06
yofelI think they simpley never decided what to do with it23:06
yofeland they have the very same spectacle package (look at the version)23:06
clivejohi yofel23:07
valorieIMO this issue of two Spectacle applications should be discussed on the Deb. kde packager list?23:13
valorieperhaps the new one could be KDE-Spectacle or so?23:14
clivejowhat was wrong with the last name?!?23:14
valorieksnapshot was being abandoned, the devel tried to fix it and decided to mostly start over, so didn't want to use the same name23:15
valorieand decided on Spectacle23:15
yofelhey clivejo23:16
valoriealthough I believe the other spectacle was mentioned in the epic-bikeshedding-thread about the naming23:16
valoriebut that info was probably lost in the noise23:16
sgclarkepic-bikeshedding-thread lol, seems the norm these days.23:18
mparilloI vote for spektakle ;-)23:26
yofelno, the kde community is so grown up that putting k into works where it doesn't belong is a complete no-go23:30
valoriemparillo brings up the rear of the bikeshed!23:30
sgclarkI don't see what is wrong with k, it is a well established branding /shrug23:30
yofelnotice the very subtle sarcasm in my sentence23:34
clivejoI noticed :P23:35
valoriewell, it would be cool to agree with debian at least23:35
clivejowe need to establish a committee 23:40
clivejoto decide who sits on the steering group23:41
* valorie nominates clivejo23:43
clivejoIm too busy chopping wood in the Sahara23:43
valorieI have no problem writing an email to the list, I just don't know enough to talk about anything but the name issue23:50

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