[00:05] <mediachicken> Hello I was wondering whether it was possible to check which keyboard drivers are currently connected/being used?
[00:05] <mediachicken> I connected a new apple magic keyboard to ubuntu and it's not using the hid_apple driver and my fn keys aren't working either
[00:06] <wxl> mediachicken: is that bluetooth?
[00:06] <mediachicken> yes
[00:07] <wxl> might want to check on #ubuntu, as the issues extend beyond just the desktop environment
[00:07] <mediachicken> yeah I asked in ubuntu as well
[00:07] <wxl> then i'd just patiently wait :)
[00:07] <mediachicken> I just know the keybindings are set in the DE so wasn't sure if anything else driver related was as well
[00:07] <wxl> cuz i don't have the hardware to test either
[00:08] <mediachicken> could the issue be because I'm running it on a macbook and the internal keyboard is using the hid_apple driver?
[00:09] <wxl> i doubt it
[00:09] <mediachicken> Alright, just making sure. The old wireless keyboards used the hid_apple driver, but I have the new magic keyboard. Thinking that there might not have been a driver update
[00:10] <wxl> no clue man. gotta talk to those new-fangled-apple folks
[00:10] <mediachicken> the keyboard works as expected, it's just that the fn key is literally not even recognized when I press it in xev
[00:10] <mediachicken> haha yeah, hopefully someone in #ubuntu knows
[00:10] <wxl> most of us apple people here are all ppc
[00:10] <wxl> that sounds like a driver issue for sure
[00:10] <mediachicken> I'm honestly trying to switch to linux full time
[00:10] <wxl> yay :) helps to have "normal" hardware XD
[00:11] <mediachicken> But I've used mac for years at work and it's a hard switch to make as a software engineer  lol
[00:11] <wxl> i hear ya
[00:11] <wxl> but less proprietary :)
[00:12] <mediachicken> Yeah dude, I had the idea after upgrading my tower. I decided to install lubuntu on my mac and was disappointed at how lightning fast it ran compared to OSX on the exact same hardware
[00:12] <mediachicken> really makes me second guess spending $2500
[00:12] <wxl> heheheheh
[00:12] <wxl> yeah and honestly, if you compare the specs, you can get something similar to any mac pretty much anywhere else for far less
[00:12] <mediachicken> Honestly I completely blame El Capital. OSX 10.11 literally ruined OSX for me
[00:13] <mediachicken> Oh yeah, the Asus Zenbooks have amazing hardware and a 4k screen
[00:13] <mediachicken> for almost $1k less
[00:13] <wxl> yuup[
[00:14] <wxl> i love how well lubuntu runs on just about anything. i generally use old hardware because it just makes it run so well :)
[00:14] <wxl> i get handmedowns from people. you know, borked windows installs and the like
[00:14] <mediachicken> Hell yeah. It's not even that I have tight constraints and need a lightweight OS. I just hate all the "eye candy" in most modern OS
[00:14] <wxl> i don't MIND the eye candy, but i don't need it
[00:14] <tsimonq2> http://lubuntu.me/lubuntu-lxqt-in-a-raspberry-pi/
[00:14] <mediachicken> I want my DE to be insanely responsive
[00:14] <tsimonq2> just putting that out there XD
[00:15] <mediachicken> If it can stay insanely responsive and have eye candy, i don't mind it. But functionality > beauty when it comes to a DE
[00:15] <wxl> what i don't like is extra b.s. that's just cludgy. that's my problem with ubuntu and kubuntu (which we use at work). so many features that are largely unnecesary
[00:15] <wxl> indeed
[00:15] <wxl> i can't tell you the hassles i've had to deal with regarding kubuntu panels
[00:15] <wxl> on lubuntu it's just simple
[00:16] <mediachicken> I for one can't stand cinnamon
[00:16] <wxl> i like plain config files.
[00:16] <tsimonq2> s/simple/simpler/ :P
[00:16] <wxl> :/
[00:16] <mediachicken> I've never ran a KDE install before. Makes me more confident in my choice of lxde
[00:17] <wxl> my biggest problem with os x is that they freaking RUINED freebsd
[00:17] <wxl> it's not like darwin is freebsd + some extra stuff
[00:17] <wxl> no it's freebsd - some stuff + some extra stuff
[00:17] <wxl> though the man pages for the stuff that they removed are often still lurking around
[00:17] <wxl> i like their microkernel tho :)
[00:18] <wxl> i guess it's my responsibility to state this channel is for support and is logged. if we want to continue this non-support chat, we'd probably be best going to #lubuntu-offtopic
[00:19]  * tsimonq2 nods
[00:20] <mediachicken> ah okay, sorry about that lol
[00:20] <mediachicken> well I guess it's permanently on record that OSX is trash now
[00:20] <mediachicken> ;)
[00:20] <wxl> mediachicken: it's no problem at all, frankly, but it's just better that way for all the people desperate for help :)
[00:22] <mediachicken> Well then I will ask something on-topic. If I'm not able to resolve this conflict, how would I assign the brightness functionality to the F1/F2 keys? What command would I add to the lubuntu-rc.xml?
[00:23] <mediachicken> and is there a way to remap keys via the same file? Like can I the A keybinding to trigger B? Curious if I could keybind shift+ctrl to replace the fn key (I know it could cause possible problems with hotkeys but not too concerned right now)
[00:24] <wxl> mediachicken: if you google around you can find all sorts of things
[00:25] <wxl> but tl;dr you just need cli commands to do particular tasks and use the <command> tag
[00:25] <wxl> you can do that with xbacklight for example
[00:25] <mediachicken> haven't googled the second question but I have googled around a bit for the first question and didn't find any good solutions
[00:25] <wxl> e.g. https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=Openbox:_Control_Screen_Brightness_Using_the_Keyboard
[00:26] <mediachicken> ah okay. I didn't know if there was an alternate to the <command> tag where I could use like <keycode> or something or if everything had to be command based
[00:26] <wxl> mediachicken: not in the normal openbox toolkit afaik. you'd have to do some deeper hacking.
[00:26] <mediachicken> Ah alright, thanks!
[00:27] <wxl> also i kind of doubt the kernel really picks up on the fn
[00:27] <wxl> maybe i'm wrong
[00:27] <mediachicken> If I search documentation for this file what would I look for? This is an openbox related config and not an lxde config?
[00:27] <wxl> but i'd bet that fn-some-key is picked up
[00:27] <mediachicken> Hmm, so the fn key is actually modifying the signal before it's sent to the computer?
[00:27] <wxl> in our case, openbox is the window manager in the whole lxde suite
[00:27] <wxl> mediachicken: that's my GUESS.
[00:28] <mediachicken> well using xev on my keyboard returns the exact same result for f1 and fn+f1
[00:28] <mediachicken> guess it really is a driver issue
[00:28] <wxl> yeah
[00:29] <wxl> and even if that idea was possible you'd have to figure out the right keycode for fn
[00:29] <wxl> i don't know if this is helpful:
[00:29] <wxl> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppleKeyboard
[00:30] <wxl> maybe fnmode default has changed?
[00:30] <wxl> /sys/module/hid_apple/parameters/fnmode
[00:30] <wxl> if that's 0 that's probably the issue as it means fn disabled
[00:31] <wxl> also check this out https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Apple_Keyboard
[00:32] <wxl> you may have to read between the lines but arch usually has excellent docs
[00:32] <wxl> my suggestion with their docs is don't just copy/paste commends before you know what they do
[00:32] <wxl> and what the original state is
[00:37] <mediachicken> Yeah like I said when I change the fnmode of the hid_apple driver it only modifies the input for my built in apple keyboard
[00:37] <mediachicken> that's why I was asking originally if it were possible to show a list of the current kb drivers being used
[00:38] <mediachicken> because I wanna know what driver my magic keyboard is using
[00:38] <wxl> sure
[00:38] <wxl> well
[00:38] <wxl> hm
[00:38] <mediachicken> yeah I googled for it but couldn't find anything useful
[00:38] <wxl> mayube it depends more on the available bluetooth profiles
[00:39] <wxl> yeah because the driver is for the bluetooth adapter
[00:39] <ianorlin> I don't know about apple keyboards
[00:40] <wxl> i am just kind of clueless on this one :(
[00:41] <mediachicken> So is there a generic bluetooth keyboard driver I could try to modify the settings on?
[00:42] <wxl> actually i don't think so
[00:42] <mediachicken> I feel like there has to be a way to list connected peripherals along with the drivers they're using
[00:42] <wxl> you MAY be able to change the underlying profiles
[00:42] <mediachicken> xinput -list brings me the closest but no cigar
[00:43] <wxl> but what i'm trying to say is that in the case of bluetooth, the kernel module for the bluetooth ADAPTER (receiver/transmitter) is what's doing most of the heavy lifting, with it talking to the device via bluetooth profiles
[00:43] <mediachicken> not sure I know what bluetooth profiles are
[00:43] <wxl> yeah
[00:43] <wxl> well
[00:43] <wxl> this is one of the reasons why bluetooth sucks :)
[00:43] <mediachicken> is there a way to modify them?
[00:43] <mediachicken> hahaha
[00:43] <wxl> yes but you got to know how to
[00:43] <mediachicken> hmm so it's not like a generic easily editable config file?
[00:44] <wxl> MAYBE helpful https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22265089/bluetooth-profile-info-in-linux
[00:44] <mediachicken> So from your understanding of this issue so far, is the best guess that my issue is a driver problem or do you think it's actually a kernel issue or something?
[00:45] <wxl> i think it's a bluetooth profile thing
[00:45] <mediachicken> Which a driver wouldn't fix?
[00:45] <mediachicken> or do bluetooth devices not use normal drivers?
[00:45] <wxl> yeah because the driver being used is for the adapter
[00:45] <wxl> right that exactly
[00:45] <mediachicken> ah I gotcha
[00:45] <mediachicken> well I'm learning, and already disliking this whole bluetooth thing
[00:46] <wxl> it's like kernel <-- driver --> adapter <-- profiles --> device
[00:46] <wxl> it's still in its infancy
[00:46] <tsimonq2> I thought kernel = driver?
[00:46] <wxl> no
[00:46] <wxl> well
[00:46] <wxl> not exactly
[00:46] <mediachicken> so if I'm able to modify the profile and make the appropriate changes, will these changes be persistent even if I remove the bluetooth device completely?
[00:46] <wxl> that's like saying chrome == a chrome extension
[00:46] <tsimonq2> because isn't it just kernel modules, wxl?
[00:47] <wxl> mediachicken: maybe. don't know, for sure.
[00:47] <mediachicken> from the sound of that SO question it seems like it creates a profile on pairing
[00:47] <wxl> tsimonq2: you can't boot a module, tsimonq2.
[00:47] <tsimonq2> wxl: but you can boot a kernel
[00:47] <tsimonq2> and kernel - modules
[00:47] <tsimonq2> s/-/=/
[00:47] <wxl> tsimonq2: right, so a module != kernel
[00:47] <wxl> so a kernel = driver
[00:47] <wxl> s/=/!=/
[00:48] <tsimonq2> but isn't kernel = x(module) = x(driver) ?
[00:48] <tsimonq2> (Algebra lol)
[00:48] <wxl> kind of, but for the sake of this discussion, it's not useful
[00:49] <tsimonq2> oh :P
[00:50] <wxl> example profile mediachicken https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Linux_Guide/Linux_and_Bluetooth#Bluetooth_device_as_a_modem
[00:50] <wxl> that page over all may be helpful
[00:51] <mediachicken> thanks for the link, I've been doing reading up on bluetooth profiles trying to wrap my head around it
[00:52] <wxl> this is also fascinating https://idebian.wordpress.com/2008/07/06/manage-hid-bluetooth-devices-in-linux/
[00:52] <mediachicken> I saw a post from years back about using hcitool to and in his post it showed the apple keyboard in the output, but when I ran it nothing got returned
[00:53] <wxl> in there is a patch that MIGHT help
[00:53] <wxl> but essentially we're talking hardcore hacking
[00:54] <wxl> send it back get a real keyboard; move on XD
[00:55] <wxl> i find apple products tend to always have some weird quirk that no one in the industry follows
[00:59] <mediachicken> Agreed lol. But this keyboard is my favorite keyboard at this size with the nicest feeling buttons
[01:00] <wxl> i hear you
[01:00] <mediachicken> I wish I could sit around and be an apple hater, but they do design some great devices
[01:00] <wxl> their design department is wonderful
[01:00] <mediachicken> Definitely is, I just wish their engineering was up to the same spec
[01:01] <wxl> heheheh
[01:04] <mediachicken> interesting, so that link you sent is basically bypassing the whole bluetooth profile route by tricking the system into thinking its a usbdevice?
[01:04] <mediachicken> Idk if I wanna go to that extent to make this work, but I'll throw it in the list as possible solutions if all else fails
[01:04] <wxl> seems like it
[01:04] <wxl> but then you're stuck with what you get
[01:05] <mediachicken> meaning what?
[01:05] <wxl> i.e. if the fn key doesn't work you have no more options to change :)
[03:44] <luckyuser> is the new lxqt usable?
[07:01] <eipi10> anyone out there?
[07:02] <hateball> I am sure there are
[07:03] <eipi10> hey
[07:04] <eipi10> is ubuntu imagewriter the same as startup disk creator?
[07:06] <hateball> I do not know
[07:08] <eipi10> thanks for answering anyway
[07:08] <pleia2> no, they're different things
[07:09] <pleia2> startup disk creator is usb-creator-gtk, ubuntu imagewriter is something else I haven't heard of
[07:10] <pleia2> looks like it's launched via usb-imagewriter, but it's not included in supported releases of lubuntu (looks like it was last in 12.10)
[07:11] <eipi10> but I thought imagewriter was usb-creator
[07:11] <pleia2> !usb
[07:11] <pleia2> not sure what you're trying to do, but this might help :)
[07:13] <eipi10> I'm putting raspbarian on an sd card.  gnome "disks" seems to have worked.
[07:14] <eipi10> seemed startup disk creator didn't like ,img
[07:14] <pleia2> ah, glad you got it sorted
[07:15] <eipi10> btw, how would you go about creating a bootable sd card?  (if you haven't had to try it, I'll understand you not knowing)
[07:16] <eipi10> it's just the first time I've done it with a .img file and it seems a lil different
[07:16] <pleia2> when I last flashed my rasbian system I just used the install directions on the rasbian site, may have suggested dd
[07:17] <pleia2> yeah
[07:18] <eipi10> dd? ok
[07:18] <pleia2> command line dd onto the sd card
[07:18] <eipi10> have you used anything other that raspbarian, like Ub Mate arm?
[07:18] <pleia2> nope
[07:19] <eipi10> ok, thx
[07:19] <pleia2> I only have the original Rasberry Pi, so my options are limited :)
[07:19] <eipi10> oic
[07:21] <eipi10> have you ever seen hardware ars?
[07:21] <eipi10> wars^
[07:22] <pleia2> nope, but it's time for me to head to bed and sounds like a conversation for #lubuntu-offtopic anyway :)
[07:22] <pleia2> have a good one
[07:23] <eipi10> bye
[07:44] <amazoniantoad> I just wanted to say that lubuntu is better than ubuntu
[13:47] <rrr> where to enable window selection by hovering instead of clicking?
[14:38] <krytarik> rrr: Basically, '~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml', http://openbox.org/wiki/Help:Configuration#Focus , and "openbox --reconfigure".
[16:52] <dzCN> lubuntu users?
[16:53] <teward> dzCN: do you have an actual question?
[16:55] <dzCN> are you a developer of lubuntu?
[16:59] <teward> dzCN: if you have an actual question you may wish to ask it, rather than ask if someone is a developer or a user
[17:10] <dzCN> can Lubuntu be installed on intel compute stick?
[17:24] <toshibasatellite> hello... please help me make my lubuntu recognize the USB flash drive
[17:26] <toshibasatellite> any expert?
[23:52] <toshibasatellite> Problem: can't see the USB flash drive in document explorer PCMan
[23:52] <toshibasatellite> any hint