| dholbach | good morning | 07:37 |
|---|---|---|
| MooDoo | morning | 07:49 |
| * dholbach relocates to the office, bbiab | 08:10 | |
| popey | morning | 08:34 |
| popey | dholbach: shall you and I do the Q&A today? | 08:55 |
| czajkowski | how is everyone ? | 09:03 |
| popey | great, but cold | 09:07 |
| dholbach | hey popey - sure why not? | 09:15 |
| popey | I can think of no good reason! | 09:16 |
| dholbach | :) | 09:23 |
| popey | dholbach: okay, created the event and updated the site | 09:31 |
| dholbach | <3 | 09:31 |
| popey | we're mega-early prepared for once 😃 | 09:31 |
| popey | \o/ RPI2 just arrived for snappy playing | 09:52 |
| _Sponge | It may be a good idea to tweet earlier about the ~hangout, just saying. | 10:20 |
| popey | eh? | 10:22 |
| popey | oh, yeah, we will | 10:22 |
| popey | people have short memories though :) | 10:22 |
| _Sponge | For I see you are winning :-) | 10:47 |
| mhall119 | popey: dholbach: I'm past due for being on the hangout, I'd be happy to swap with one of you if you'd like | 14:19 |
| dholbach | sure, that wfm too | 14:20 |
| dpm | mhall119, balloons, team call? | 15:03 |
| _Sponge | 50 minutes to-go :) | 15:07 |
| popey | mhall119: dholbach I'll start the hangout, just moving to my desk | 15:45 |
| mhall119 | dholbach: popey: is there a guest lined up for today? | 15:45 |
| dholbach | I'm taking a quick break, see you in a bit | 15:45 |
| dholbach | mhall119, the 3 of us - that's unusual enough :-P | 15:45 |
| balloons | ping jose | 15:46 |
| jose | balloons: pong | 16:36 |
| dholbach | all right my friends - I call it a day - see you tomorrow :-) | 17:22 |
| pleia2 | jcastro: re: discourse, so as far as I can tell, you have a couple options for "notifications" | 17:45 |
| pleia2 | jcastro: first is you can "subscribe" in the web UI, so when you go to a category, you will see a visual indication that there are new threads (not useful for me, I don't use the web UI) | 17:45 |
| pleia2 | jcastro: or you can go into your global preferences and "Send me an email for every new post (unless I mute the topic or category)" which sends you EVERYTHING, subscribed or not, unless, as it says, you specifically mute the topic | 17:46 |
| knome | unless the ubuntu wiki gets any faster, i will tell all teams to move away from it :| | 17:46 |
| knome | sigh | 17:46 |
| pleia2 | if there's a way to just subscribe to a single category by email, it makes discourse a bit meh for me | 17:47 |
| wxl | i have yet to hear anyone say they love our wiki | 17:47 |
| knome | well i love our wiki | 17:47 |
| knome | that is, the xubuntu wiki... | 17:47 |
| popey | dpm: maybe a GSoC project to move our wiki to something better? :) | 17:47 |
| popey | ^ | 17:47 |
| wxl | YES popey dpm PLEASE | 17:47 |
| pleia2 | knome: we could float the idea of a migration to mediawiki again, the migration wouldn't be pretty, but it scales better | 17:47 |
| pleia2 | might help all the brains | 17:48 |
| popey | would love that | 17:48 |
| * dpm hears popey and wxl volunteering.... | 17:48 | |
| popey | Sure. | 17:48 |
| wxl | absolutely! | 17:48 |
| knome | i'm afraid of the level of cooperation the IS is giving | 17:48 |
| pleia2 | knome: canonical folks can escalate internally ;) | 17:48 |
| wxl | i bet we could easily get a TEAM of people to handle that GSoC idea | 17:48 |
| popey | yeah, totally | 17:48 |
| popey | I know jcastro would be up for that | 17:48 |
| popey | I recon we could get a crack team on it | 17:48 |
| pleia2 | it's currently a nightmare for community, and help.ubuntu.com/community is STILL locked down, going on 2 months now | 17:48 |
| popey | GSoC or not | 17:48 |
| knome | pleia2, i have heard that before, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't :) | 17:49 |
| wxl | indeed | 17:49 |
| pleia2 | so both wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com/community would likely want this treatment | 17:49 |
| popey | +1 | 17:49 |
| jcastro | I don't have time to fix the wiki | 17:49 |
| jcastro | I just don't use it | 17:49 |
| knome | pleia2, except that several people in the docs team think that the community wiki would just die | 17:49 |
| knome | jcastro, neither do many people in the community - because it's so slow | 17:50 |
| pleia2 | knome: the docs people who hang around IRC, not the ones who are active contributors for it | 17:50 |
| knome | pleia2, yeah, true | 17:50 |
| jcastro | knome: I agree | 17:50 |
| pleia2 | knome: they are very distinct groups, and we're not serving the editors right now | 17:50 |
| knome | totally | 17:50 |
| wxl | besides, that's just speculation | 17:50 |
| knome | i don't think the community wiki should die, but it should definitely get some love | 17:50 |
| pleia2 | anyway, if we propose it as a GSoC project, we would have to confirm buy-in from Canonical IS first | 17:51 |
| pleia2 | I think we all know how frustrating it is to write a change and see it sit for 2 years | 17:51 |
| wxl | that's true | 17:51 |
| wxl | i think we're more likely to get it done with GSoC tho | 17:51 |
| knome | it would probably need an ack from the design team too, because i'd imagine they would want it to have some kind of official looks for it | 17:51 |
| pleia2 | knome: yeah, good point | 17:52 |
| wxl | popey: as a member of the team behind our google thingys, could you check with canonical on the feasibility of implementing such a project? | 17:52 |
| knome | unless they are willing to let the GSoC students handle the visual side too | 17:52 |
| popey | wxl: i can certainly ask the right people | 17:53 |
| popey | can't guarantee the answers we'll get | 17:53 |
| popey | knome: i think the design should just follow our existing sites for consistency | 17:54 |
| popey | <- not a designer | 17:54 |
| popey | it's not like design have been knocking down our doors to redesign wiki.ubuntu.com for the last 5 years | 17:55 |
| knome | popey, the thing is, a mediawiki theme is something completely different than a moinmoin theme, or any of the other themes | 17:56 |
| popey | sure. | 17:56 |
| popey | It's basically $work that someone needs to do | 17:56 |
| knome | popey, sure, many people can imitate the looks, but i'm pretty sure the design team has some say to this | 17:56 |
| popey | someone versed in theming mediawiki sites | 17:56 |
| knome | of course | 17:56 |
| popey | yeah, it's one of the many things to consider on a project this size ã‹› | 17:57 |
| knome | well, not necessarily, but if the design team wants their framework to be used, the one that implements the mediawiki theme has to be able to work with that | 17:57 |
| knome | i'm saying all this because i know it's not a small task. | 17:57 |
| popey | sure. | 17:58 |
| popey | While we're on the subject of shutting things down. | 18:04 |
| popey | Any objection to mothballing the ubuntu-classroom lists? | 18:04 |
| popey | they haven't had any traffic for ages. | 18:05 |
| pleia2 | I think ubuntu-classroom is done | 18:05 |
| pleia2 | if we could keep archives, that would be great | 18:07 |
| popey | "done" as in already shutdown? | 18:08 |
| popey | or "done" as in "not needed / expired"? | 18:09 |
| pleia2 | not needed anymore | 18:10 |
| popey | ok | 18:11 |
| popey | had to remove 150 odd spam mails from it this week | 18:11 |
| pleia2 | and that was less than a month's worth of spam, I last cleared it out around the end of january | 18:11 |
| pleia2 | anyway, I just went ahead and added a banner to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom menu saying the project is retired | 18:12 |
| pleia2 | sad day | 18:12 |
| jose | :( | 18:12 |
| jose | I'm happy it did serve its purpose during a good while, though. | 18:13 |
| * pleia2 nods | 18:13 | |
| pleia2 | it had a good run :) | 18:13 |
| jose | hehe, I remember running to a starbucks to give a session because my home internet was down :D | 18:13 |
| popey | :) | 18:16 |
| popey | I remember staring at the screen as I pasted line after line thinking "too quick?" "too slow? "Do you think they can read this?" | 18:16 |
| popey | being really very deliberate about what I copy/paste | 18:16 |
| jose | hehehe | 18:19 |
| jose | it was my second project ever in the community, after launchpad answers | 18:19 |
| jcastro | pleia2: popey: do we know if importing from moin to mediawiki requires access to the moin server? | 18:38 |
| jcastro | or is it like "point to these two urls, slurp from one, push to the other." | 18:39 |
| pleia2 | it probably requires a dump of the back end content, which I imagine is stored in a database or series of files or something | 18:40 |
| jcastro | it's not | 18:40 |
| jcastro | moin is all files | 18:40 |
| pleia2 | nice | 18:40 |
| jcastro | no database | 18:40 |
| jcastro | that's why it's so slow | 18:40 |
| pleia2 | so access to those files then | 18:41 |
| jcastro | we could | 18:41 |
| pleia2 | there's no way slurping would work | 18:41 |
| jcastro | I was thinking from an ease-of-process perspective | 18:41 |
| pleia2 | we can barely load one page these days ;) | 18:41 |
| jcastro | basically, if you don't need IS to get you access to gigs of files and do an import it could save a ton of time | 18:41 |
| pleia2 | there's no other way to have access to all the files, their caching protections prevent bots, and I fear we'd simply lose too much | 18:42 |
| pleia2 | lots of timeouts, etc | 18:42 |
| jcastro | ah, right | 18:42 |
| jcastro | well, I have a call with elmo next thursday, if there's an RT I can bring it up | 18:42 |
| jcastro | iirc last time it was just a matter of resourcing | 18:42 |
| jcastro | it's not like anyone love the current wiki and wants to keep it around | 18:43 |
| pleia2 | it still has lots of great content and people *want* to use it, but the slowness, timeouts and other issues make that difficult | 18:44 |
| pleia2 | the xubuntu team just stood up its own wiki | 18:44 |
| jcastro | right, I don't think anyone is complaining about the content itself | 18:44 |
| pleia2 | I don't think there's an existing RT ticket saying "migrate to something else" | 18:44 |
| jcastro | popey and I have talked about just getting into trouble and firing up an unofficial one and then seeing what happens | 18:45 |
| jose | if there's general approval, I'd be happy to open a ticket to move it to mediawiki | 18:45 |
| jose | even better, mediawiki is already charmed, which makes it easier to get it deployed on is servers | 18:45 |
| pleia2 | but yeah, definitely a resources things, but my hope is that after this switch much of the pain is reduced in maintenance, plus the community is happy \o/ | 18:45 |
| jcastro | it would literally take us like 10 minutes to fire one up on a public cloud | 18:46 |
| jose | should I send an email to ubuntu-community-team? | 18:46 |
| jose | yep, yep | 18:46 |
| jcastro | I'd just file the RT | 18:46 |
| jose | well, I'd like to hear what others say, though I expect a lot of 'yes please' | 18:46 |
| jcastro | "all in favor of keeping shitty software that makes people quit the project, say aye!" | 18:46 |
| jose | I'll send an email and open an RT later | 18:47 |
| jose | jcastro, mind if I send you the RT# later? | 18:47 |
| jcastro | actually, the hard part would be SSO and stuff | 18:47 |
| jose | right | 18:47 |
| jcastro | I don't care when you file it, I've waited like 12 years, what's a few more hours ... | 18:47 |
| jose | lol | 18:47 |
| pleia2 | jose: we'll need to tell the ubuntu-doc team too | 18:49 |
| jose | pleia2: ubuntu-doc@l.u.c/ | 18:50 |
| jose | ? | 18:50 |
| popey | I know when I spoke to dpm at SCaLE about this he was keen not to just jump to MediaWiki, but to evaluate the options | 18:50 |
| popey | Just saying that before someone does stuff and he gets cross | 18:50 |
| pleia2 | jose: yeah, just make sure you're subscribed so it doesn't get stuck in the queue | 18:50 |
| popey | Not that i've ever seen dpm cross :) | 18:50 |
| jose | pleia2: yup yup | 18:50 |
| jose | popey: I'm writing an email to ask first :) | 18:50 |
| popey | wise 😃 | 18:50 |
| jcastro | all I want to do is watch the rm -fR | 18:50 |
| jose | lol | 18:50 |
| * popey wonders if this would be "solved" by "just" keeping all of the wiki (attachments aside) in RAM :) | 18:51 | |
| popey | as it's all "just" files | 18:51 |
| popey | I mean, surely nobody has actually just looked at what the performance bottleneck is? | 18:52 |
| pleia2 | and timing won't be a surprise, I just sent this email yesterday ;) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2016-February/019713.html | 18:52 |
| jcastro | it's the filesystem | 18:52 |
| jcastro | I remember when this happened | 18:52 |
| jcastro | we hit an ext4 limit | 18:52 |
| popey | I imagine the wiki is basically these guys http://i.imgur.com/UG8wcJo.gifv | 18:52 |
| jcastro | it's one text file per page | 18:52 |
| jcastro | or sorry it was ext2 at the time: | 18:53 |
| jcastro | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moin/+bug/217191 | 18:53 |
| popey | hehe, i remember that, that was fun | 18:54 |
| pleia2 | jcastro: btw, SSO shouldn't be a problem, the openstack wiki already uses mediawiki+launchpad/ubuntu SSO | 18:54 |
| jcastro | oh rock and roll, that's awesome | 18:55 |
| jose | ok, email sent | 18:57 |
| jcastro | I wish mediawiki did native markdown | 18:58 |
| jcastro | that would be so epic | 18:58 |
| wxl | jcastro: i haven't touched it yet but it seems like the plugins i've seen for markdown look like they'd work pretty well | 18:59 |
| jcastro | pleia2: it's my understanding you can subscribe to a label and just get emails for that label | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | jcastro: is a label different than a category? x_x | 19:05 |
| jcastro | sorry, I meant category | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | so I'm subscribed to "Cloud and Server" as "Watching" but it doesn't send me emails | 19:07 |
| jcastro | I am not sure if we're set up for mails | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | it just gives me a visual indicator in the interface when I go to that category | 19:07 |
| jcastro | I don't get any mails from the ubuntu one, I do get them from other discourse instances | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | the global setting for "Send me an email for every new post (unless I mute the topic or category)" works, but that's too many emails | 19:07 |
| jcastro | apparently the mozillians have it set up so a user can do mail only if they want | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | well, today it's not too many emails, since the site isn't active, but I don't want to have to manually unsubscribe from categories | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | I've gotten 3 notifications in a couple days with that setting on | 19:08 |
| jcastro | that's not how it works | 19:08 |
| jcastro | I think you sub to each category like you would sign up for a mailing list. | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | is our site kept updated? I can't figure out how to do that | 19:09 |
| jcastro | "Tracking" is what I use | 19:11 |
| jcastro | that's like, topic mails instead of every single mail | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | ok, I'll try that | 19:11 |
| jcastro | so click on a category | 19:11 |
| jcastro | then it's the orange dropdown on the right, top of the page but not the header | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | yeah, that's where I set "Watching" before | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | so to get emails, it's "Tracking"? | 19:12 |
| knome | jcastro, sounds easy... | 19:12 |
| jcastro | pleia2: there's also mail settings on your settings page | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | ok, I turned off my global "get all the alerts" setting, we'll see if this works | 19:13 |
| jcastro | knome: it's still much easier than say ... mailman | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | jcastro: yep, that's where the "Send me an email for every new post (unless I mute the topic or category)" setting lives | 19:14 |
| knome | jcastro, i disagree; once you have registered, you will have mails for that list, period :) | 19:15 |
| jcastro | well, you guys are the ones using emails | 19:17 |
| jcastro | of course the experience is going to suck. :) | 19:17 |
| * popey covers mailman's ears so it doesn't hear the words from the bad man! | 19:17 | |
| knome | and just to show something, it's possible to make the mailman front page look easier to comprehend, a la https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel | 19:18 |
| jcastro | jose: lol +2 already to keep moinmoin | 19:21 |
| svij | every time I touch wiki.ubuntu.com, I'm all like: https://i.imgflip.com/zb213.jpg | 19:31 |
| popey | :) | 19:32 |
| svij | stupic IRC, can't even embed memes! | 19:34 |
| * svij goes over to mattermost/slack/… ;) | 19:34 | |
| pleia2 | IRC saves us from the memes once again <3 | 19:37 |
| svij | hehe | 19:37 |
| knome | hooray for no-nonsense! | 19:37 |
| svij | pleia2: btw, do you edit the UWN completely in the wiki? | 19:38 |
| svij | I'm one of the "lucky" guys who do the german version of the UWN and we use etherpad mostly, so more people can contribute (and chat) on the same time. | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | svij: no, we start out in a google doc for most of the week, final copy sunday night and any small additional edits are done in the wiki | 19:40 |
| svij | ah okay | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | we couldn't find an etherpad that was reliable enough for international collaboration | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | google docs, sadly, just works better for us | 19:41 |
| svij | we use http://publishwith.me/ that seems to work on mondays. | 19:41 |
| svij | but yes, we didn't have luck with other etherpad hostings | 19:41 |
| svij | but we have one thing in common (sadly): not that many people contribute … (2 or 3 mostly) | 19:43 |
| popey | We (podcast) have recently switched back to... (shock) Gobby! | 19:44 |
| popey | It's much better than it was previously. | 19:44 |
| svij | oh gobby | 19:45 |
| popey | We even have it setup to export out all the gobby docs every 90s to a webserver, with some styling. Works a treat. | 19:45 |
| svij | the good old days with gobby… :D | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | for UWN we needed a non-client solution, need to make it as easy as possible for people to write summaries (even then, it's a struggle) | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | "point web browser here, write, thx" | 19:46 |
| svij | that's why we moved away from gobby | 19:46 |
| knome | pleia2, you should write an irc bot that accepts submissions | 19:46 |
| * knome hides | 19:46 | |
| pleia2 | knome: just what we need, yet another submission tool that no one uses | 19:47 |
| knome | pleia2, nooo, everybody would use it [: | 19:47 |
| popey | http://imgur.com/a/ddWU6 check that out! | 19:47 |
| popey | It's like a wiki! | 19:47 |
| svij | gobby is a web-thing now? | 19:47 |
| popey | edit in gobby, nice and fast, get web pages out automagically, markdown -> html | 19:47 |
| popey | no | 19:47 |
| svij | ah | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | it needs to be real time | 19:48 |
| popey | true, we have it spit out 90s, but it can be faster :) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | anyway, google docs works fine for us, nothing to solve here | 19:48 |
| popey | sure :) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | the pain just comes when I have to copy things over to the wiki at the end of our cycle | 19:48 |
| svij | the only bad thing about etherpad is, that it doesn't have any code-syntax-highlighting (+ it's our own special syntax) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | sunday night, aaaarrggh | 19:49 |
| knome | wut? | 19:49 |
| knome | (btw, HOORAY TEAM REPORTS!) | 19:50 |
| knome | (since we are making everybody feel sad already..) | 19:50 |
| popey | haha | 19:51 |
| svij | team reports? Did I miss something here? | 19:51 |
| knome | the xubuntu team did those conscientiosly for a long time (thanks pleia2!) but because nobody else did them.... | 19:52 |
| knome | besides, we have our own work item tracker now which creates a timeline of completed work items automatically | 19:52 |
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