dhalletti am new to snappy ubuntu and wondering if i can setup my own snappy repo to host updates and also snappy images for raspberry pi 2?04:33
dhalletti am currently using snappy ubuntu core 16.04 on my rpi2 right now. just to let you know.04:35
dhalletti have been a ubuntu user since Ubuntu 9.04 came out.04:36
dhallettany help is appreciated04:38
dhalletti would like to start contributing back to the ubuntu community as both as a dev and a fellow ubuntu user.04:40
dhallettanyone able to help me with my problem? i also have a webdm on snappy ubuntu problem as when i go to my localip of my raspberry pi 2 it doesn't show on 16.04LTS snappy core04:52
dhalletti  thought using this irc channel would provide faster answers after searching the internet for approx 24 hours i find the forums are a tad bit slow at answering than on irc04:55
=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun
dholbachgood morning08:05
didrocksgood morning dholbach!08:11
dholbachsalut didrocks08:11
=== john-mca` is now known as john-mcaleely
JamesTaitGood morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Battery Day! 😃09:59
popeyWhen I upload a snap to the store, I have to add a release. rolling-personal, rolling-core and 15.04-core. i made the snap on 16.04. which is that?10:28
longsleepGood morning snappy, what is the best way to get snapcraft and start building a snap for 16.04?10:30
longsleepis there a ppa or should i clone from Git?10:30
popeythere's a ppa longsleep10:34
longsleeppopey: that one looks good: https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/snapcraft-daily10:35
zygalongsleep: get xenial or the snapcraft ppa10:56
zygalongsleep: install snapcraft and look at snapcraft examples10:56
ogra_i think you need xenial in any case, dont you ?10:56
zygalongsleep: the examples are in snapcraft source tree, you can just clone that from github as a start10:56
zygaogra_: oh, good point10:56
zygalongsleep: so you do want to use xenial for 16.04, 16.04 requires 16.04 to develop10:57
ogra_so use a chroot (or the traditional ubuntu-core tarball)10:57
longsleepogra_: well i got the vagrant image but ran into bug #154610810:58
ubottubug 1546108 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "Latest Vagrant box for Ubuntu Xenial is failing to boot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154610810:58
longsleepi can chroot as well but that requires root which i would like to avoid10:58
noizerogra_ HI i will use your application to start with lighttpd but do you have an conf file?10:59
ogra_noizer, i use a script to generate both configs (config.sh) out of the default.yaml file11:01
ogra_and indeed the startup wrapper script11:02
longsleepzyga: All right, i have 16.04 now gbarbieru/xenial Vagrant box seems to work11:08
longsleepogra_: can i still rely that python3 and openssl binaries are available in 16.04 base snappy system?11:09
longsleepok ready to go root@vagrant:~# snapcraft -v11:10
noizerogra_ is it possible to use an conf file?11:11
ogra_noizer, sure, just ship it and point the binary to it11:12
ogra_longsleep, you could never rely on that .... though the new snapcraft makes it trivial to ship your interpreter11:12
noizerok I will first make my conf file and then try it.11:12
longsleepogra_: ok thanks - i will check it out11:12
noizerthx ogra_11:13
ogra_longsleep, thats for snapcraft 2.1 (so, outdated atm) http://paste.ubuntu.com/15106152/ but that should give you an idea11:14
ogra_the last three lines simply pull in the py2 interpreter11:14
ogra_(it allows indeed more complex things too)11:14
longsleepyeah i guess it does11:14
longsleepthanks - i need to find a suitable version of Go first - is it in the repositories nowadays?11:15
ogra_not a go user, so i dont know :)11:15
ogra_looks like that is in the archive11:16
* longsleep looks11:16
longsleepwell apt-cache search golang-go-linux-amd64 gave nothing, lets try golang-go and see what that installs11:17
ogra_looks like it is just "golang"11:18
longsleepprobably packaging has changed, does not look too bad11:19
longsleepogra_: looks really good vagrant@vagrant:/vagrant/Dev/spreed-webrtc$ file bin/spreed-webrtc-server11:23
longsleepbin/spreed-webrtc-server: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, ARM aarch64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, not stripped11:23
ogra_ricmm, ^^^ !11:24
ricmmlongsleep: excellent :)11:33
zyga19:41 -!- magizian [pan@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit]11:42
zyga19:41 -!- magizian [pan@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit]11:42
zygasorry :)11:43
ogra_zyga, yes ?11:43
* ogra_ was wondering what you wanted to tell us :)11:44
zyga"where has my focus gone to"11:45
* zyga digs into cgroups12:06
longsleepmhm snapcraft does not work when used on the /vagrant mount - not really a problem but it would be nice if it would work :)12:08
longsleep[Errno 1] Operation not permitted: '/vagrant/Dev/spreed-webrtc-snap/parts/glue/install/ssleay.cnf' -> '/vagrant/Dev/spreed-webrtc-snap/stage/ssleay.cnf'12:08
longsleepogra_: do you know if the make plugin for snapcraft can run a script after clone? like ./autogen.sh12:13
zygajdstrand: I'd like to make some modification to ubuntu-core-launcher, I'll ping you later about that12:14
longsleepogra_: ah seems i have to ue the autotools plugin12:14
zygajdstrand: I'd like to sync with you as soon as you are around, it's important and related to the sprint12:14
longsleepricmm: Are you there? I got the problem that snapcraft passes a bunch of LDFLAGS in a format which seems to be wrong for the go toolchain12:23
ogra_did you use the go plugin actually ?12:25
longsleepogra_: no, the autotools plugin, but i can fix it in the Makefile.am12:27
longsleepogra_: i guess it is our fault and not snapcraft to blame :)12:27
ogra_or sergiuens ;)12:28
longsleepStaging spreed worked now12:28
zygajdstrand: so (in case you read the backlog), hw-assign doesn't work with /dev/i2c-1 for the same reason it didn't work with skills, still no permission to /dev/i2c-1 -- it's in the control group, but it's just not writable and the app doesn't run as root12:32
zygajdstrand: unless there's a logic hole somewhere I think we have to accept to chmod devices12:33
zygajdstrand: what confuses me is that other people make similar stuff and for them it works but they were always background commands, running as root, so getting the permission12:33
longsleepogra_: btw, snappy-tools where do i get it from for xenial?12:35
longsleep(i have ppa:snappy-dev/tools)12:36
ogra_longsleep, hmm, they should be in the archive ... if not, they are definitely in https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/image12:36
ogra_oh, wait ... -tools isnt in there12:37
ogra_i guess the above is correct12:37
longsleepwhat exactly? /tools has not much builds for xenial yet12:38
longsleepand /image does not seem to have it either12:38
* ogra_ has honsetly not used -tools since he switched to xenial and snapcraft 2.x )12:38
longsleephow do you sideload?12:38
longsleepi wanted to use snappy-remote or something12:39
kyrofaGood morning12:39
longsleepogra_: seems i accidently created an app instead of a service :/12:41
* longsleep searches for a service example12:41
ogra_longsleep, see my mycroft examplle from above12:42
longsleepah just add the daemon key?12:42
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
ogra_yeah, services are dead .... they are all apps now12:42
=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun
ogra_binary vs daemon is the difference12:43
longsleepok got it12:43
longsleepogra_: what about the caps? Seems like snapcraft 2.2 does not like it like it is in your example12:46
longsleepprobably the uses key from the examples12:46
longsleepi think i get it from the example12:46
* longsleep tries it12:46
ogra_longsleep, thats the new skills system i'm completely unfamiliar with12:47
ogra_zyga might be able to point you to something perhaps12:47
longsleepusing that example12:47
ogra_(caps are gone with 2.2+ )12:47
ogra_yeah, that looks about right12:47
zygalongsleep: no caps12:48
zygalongsleep: use the migration-skill please12:48
zygalongsleep: and tell me about the permissions your snap needs please12:48
* zyga -> lunch12:48
longsleepzyga: i now use [network-listener, network-service], as the snap only listens in a bunch of ports and reads/writes to its own directories12:50
longsleepogra_: ok i have a service now, only the config hook needs fixing and then i think i might have it12:51
ogra_wow, that was fast12:52
ogra_you rock :)12:52
longsleepwell, KeyError app in the config hook still to resolve :)12:52
longsleepah it is not even a problem in the config hook, i am just missing the config.in file in the snap13:03
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
zygalongsleep: nice!13:08
ogra_does anyone have an idea why we ship Qt libs in our rootfs ? http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/core-image-stats/20160218.changes13:34
asacogra_: yes i know13:35
asaci lokoed it it just yesterday13:35
asaci think it can be fixed by seed13:35
asacwe have the ubuntu-download-manager still in13:35
asacor somethign along that line used qt13:35
ogra_yeah, that shoul drally go13:36
asacjust unseed it and see if world explodes :)13:36
zygahmm, how do I start a background service in a snappy way?13:36
ogra_*should really13:36
asacsure it should13:36
asacdont think we want to remove it though before next week :)13:36
ogra_does snappy do the download on its own for snaps ?13:36
asacyes i think thats all old13:36
zygaogra_: yes13:37
ogra_cool then13:37
asacjust leftover from old world13:37
asacfeel free to double check if you find any other rdepend13:37
asacso we are safe13:37
ogra_yeah, there is more system-image stuff still seeded i think13:37
ogra_(and hacks in the build system to set that up)13:37
ogra_sudo reboot13:37
ogra_damn ... EFOCUS :P13:38
* ogra_ blames zyga ... he started that :P13:38
zygaFeb 18 13:40:23 localhost.localdomain ubuntu-core-launcher[3888]: failed to create user data directory. errmsg: Permission denied13:40
zygaso it seems we still have the permission denied issue, this time for services13:40
zygaso yay, more stuff to debug13:40
zyga(this is with the applied workaround)13:41
zygakyrofa: ^^ any chance you know how to work around this?13:44
* kyrofa reads scrollback13:44
longsleepogra_: after i have fixed a bug in the config hook totally unrelated to snappy it actually works on 16.0413:44
kyrofazyga, did jdstrand get that new profile out?13:45
ogra_longsleep, whee, awesome !13:45
kyrofazyga, as for working around it, the same workaround he suggested before should work13:45
kyrofaOh wait.. you said you're using that workaround13:45
kyrofazyga, it was /** r or something, wasn't it?13:46
kyrofazyga, check for apparmor denials?13:47
kyrofa(make sure this is the same issue)13:47
kyrofazyga, also, you haven't rebooted since loading in that temporary profile, right? Or you've loaded it again?13:48
kyrofazyga, alright, I will now take you up on making an edge image for me, if you have a minute. Let me take it for a spin, see what's going on13:49
zygakyrofa: yes (I don't know if new image was built) but note I did apply the same workaround myself13:50
zygakyrofa: how do I check apparmor denials?13:51
kyrofazyga, either with snappy-debug or just the syslog13:51
zygakyrofa: previously I manually straced everything, I don't know how to do that when systemd does activation13:51
zygaok, I'll check13:51
kyrofazyga, yeah you don't need to-- it's not that complicated13:51
noizerogra_ how does I make some rewrite in lighttpd. it does not work from me13:52
zyganoizer: rewrite/13:54
noizerzyga do you know something about nginx on snappy?13:55
zyganoizer: no, I was just wondering what you were asking about13:57
zygaFeb 18 13:57:55 localhost.localdomain ubuntu-core-launcher[4831]: failed to create user data directory. errmsg: Permission denied13:58
zygaFeb 18 13:57:55 localhost.localdomain kernel: audit: type=1400 audit(1455803875.084:81): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mkdir" profile="/usr/bin/ubuntu-core-launcher" name="/root/snaps/" pid=4831 comm="ubuntu-core-lau" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=0 ouid=013:58
zygakyrofa: ^^13:58
zygaseems like the same old problem13:58
zygajust root instead of $HOME13:58
zygaI'll apply the same workaround13:58
zygakyrofa: it'd be good to check if jdstrand fixed both root and $HOME13:58
noizerlighttpd is a webserver but ogra_ worked with it before and i thought he could help me out with some problems13:59
ogra_noizer, you likely need to enable the module first13:59
kyrofazyga, I thought the workaround was /** r though, no?13:59
ogra_somewhere in the config13:59
kyrofazyga, oh, the write though13:59
kyrofazyga, yeah you can take a peek inside the profile real quick if you want13:59
zygakyrofa: I only have the workaround14:00
* zyga looks at vanilla profiles14:00
noizermod_rewrite is enabled ogra_14:00
kyrofazyga, /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.ubuntu-core-launcher14:02
* ogra_ grumbles about systemd log output 14:03
ogra_..."Failed with result 'exit-code'."14:03
kyrofazyga, though have you built another image since that was released? (or is it included in the OS snap...)14:03
ogra_why cant it actually write the exit code in there14:03
* ogra_ shakes head14:03
kyrofazyga, yeah the apparmor profile uses HOME, which should be set correctly to /root. So I suspect you simply don't have the update14:08
zygakyrofa: I have the workaround for sure so something else might be broken14:08
* zyga returns to checking what14:08
kyrofazyga, if you can upload an image somewhere I'd be happy to check it out14:09
zygakyrofa: it's the stock image I built before, I don't want to re-flash it because I use classic dimension heavly for skill development14:09
zygakyrofa: looking at u-c-l profile, where does it have access to $HOME/snaps?14:10
kyrofazyga, makes sense14:10
zyga14:58 < zyga> Feb 18 13:57:55 localhost.localdomain kernel: audit: type=1400 audit(1455803875.084:81): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mkdir" profile="/usr/bin/ubuntu-core-launcher" name="/root/snaps/" pid=4831 comm="ubuntu-core-lau" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=0 ouid=014:10
kyrofazyga, check the last few lines of the profile (83 and on)14:11
zygakyrofa: I don't see anything that affects $HOME in the profile14:12
zygakyrofa: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15109503/14:12
zygakyrofa: that's my hacked copy14:12
kyrofazyga, yeah you don't have the update then. Here, use this:14:12
zygakyrofa: ah, perfect, thanks14:12
* zyga wonders if he can just update snappy then14:12
zygaupdate is not released?14:13
zygaubuntu-core         2016-02-12 16.04.0-8.armhf canonical14:13
kyrofazyga, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15109578/14:13
kyrofazyga, I think that's the OS snap... right? Which needs it needs to be rebuilt before the update is actually distributed?14:13
ogra_i'll try to get to that today and bump all os snaps ...14:14
kyrofawhich means it needs*14:14
ogra_(prob iis that mvo didnt pick the same version for all of them so its all manual hackery )14:14
* kyrofa is still a little fuzzy on the kernel/os/magic snaps14:14
zygakyrofa: all good, thanks14:15
kyrofazyga, yeah? Working now?14:15
zygakyrofa: I found unrelated bugs in snappy (it seems that "snappy service" blindly tries to run crazy stuff that's not a service14:15
zygakyrofa: ) but starting the systemd unit manually makes things go14:16
zygakyrofa: so I have a skill-based service in operation :-)14:16
kyrofazyga, ooo, that's fun. What type of crazy stuff?14:16
zygakyrofa: background piglow14:16
kyrofa(make sure you log those!)14:16
zygakyrofa: Feb 18 14:14:07 localhost.localdomain ./snappy[5012]: main.go:50: DEBUG: [./snappy service start] failed: unable to start pi2-piglow's service foreground: [start pi2-piglow_foreground_INANbBEQgddX.service] failed with exit status 6: Failed to start pi2-piglow_foreground_INANbBEQgddX.service: Unit pi2-piglow_foreground_INANbBEQgddX.service failed to load: No such file or directory.14:16
zygakyrofa: note: foreground is _not_ a background command/service14:16
zygakyrofa: the source for this snap is at github.com/zyga/snappy-pi2-piglow14:17
* zyga pushes new stuff14:17
zyga(now done)14:18
kyrofazyga, haha, I was gonna say...14:18
zygaFeb 18 14:14:07 localhost.localdomain ./snappy[5012]: main.go:50: DEBUG: [./snappy service start] failed: unable to start pi2-piglow's service foreground: [start pi2-piglow_foreground_INANbBEQgddX.service] failed with exit status 6: Failed to start pi2-piglow_foreground_INANbBEQgddX.service: Unit pi2-piglow_foreground_INANbBEQgddX.service failed to load: No such file or directory.14:18
kyrofazyga, yeah, how does foreground turn into a service?14:18
zygaer, damn paste14:18
zygakyrofa: it doesn't-- there is no .service file for it14:18
zygaI don't know the service generation code by heart, maybe something is wrong there14:19
kyrofazyga, huh... but the snap.yaml looks okay?14:19
zygakyrofa: let's see14:20
zygakyrofa: yes14:20
zygakyrofa: I wouldn't worry yet, this might be some old/new snappy combination14:21
zygaI may have used old (non trunk) version of snappy to instal the snap perhaps14:21
kyrofazyga, probably-- I was through all that code recently and it seemed okay14:21
zygakyrofa: if it happens after clean reproduction I'll start chasing it14:21
kyrofazyga, sounds good!14:21
zygawho can I poke to review / approve squashfs app in the store?14:25
zygapi2-piglow.zygoon revision 214:25
longsleepricmm, ogra_ https://github.com/strukturag/spreed-webrtc-snap - works fine for me and should build fine on arm64 as well if you run snapcraft there14:26
longsleepricmm, ogra_ it currently get the code from develop branch as i had to fix a variable conflict in the Makefile14:27
* zyga must say that the piglow executable, stripped, is comparable in size to the side of .yaml/changelog ;)14:27
* jdstrand reads backscroll and sees it is resolved14:48
jdstrandyes, ubuntu-core-launcher is part of the os snap. if an os snap hasn't been generated in a while, the fix won't be there14:48
jdstrandkyrofa: and the workaround rule was '/**/ rw,' - the trailing '/' is important :) ( though /** rw certainly would've worked too, but basically invalidated confinement :)14:49
jdstrandas workarounds go, it would've been effective though :)14:50
kyrofajdstrand, heh. Yeah, all resolved :)14:50
kyrofajdstrand, good morning by the way!14:51
jdstrandzyga: as for chmod-- this needs architects input. sure, a chmod will make it 'just work' for the ubuntu user, but there are a lot of implications in that14:51
jdstrandkyrofa: hi!14:51
jdstrandzyga: my gut feeling is that a chmod for the device for the user and a skills assignment to the snap are conflating two different things14:52
jdstrandwe don't have a strong story of users and groups on snappy yet and that probably needs to be discussed14:54
zygajdstrand: yep, I think this needs proper design14:54
zygajdstrand: hmm, perhaps in this case we could cheat by putting that device in the cgroup (as we do) and chmodding it *there*14:54
zygaso the user doesn't get it14:54
zygabut the app does14:54
jdstrandI'm happy to be part of that conversation, but I think tyhicks should also be a part of it14:54
zygajdstrand: ok, let's do it14:55
jdstrandzyga: I think we want pitti to have input too14:56
zygajdstrand: shall I open a bug on this to track it?14:56
jdstrandI think that makes sense. something about requiring sudo for certain devices after skills assignment14:57
ogra_longsleep, thanks, i'll try it out before EOD15:09
longsleepogra_: For comparison, this is the full output for snapcraft snap for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15111240/15:15
longsleepogra_: i am not sure about the dependencies, i added some but might have missed autoconf or something else15:15
zygakyrofa: can you do a sanity check please15:34
zygakyrofa: install v2 of the p2-piglow.zygoon snap from the github url I mentined earlier15:34
zygakyrofa: and see what services you have15:34
zygaubuntu@localhost:~$ sudo ./snappy service status15:34
zygaSnap            Service         State15:34
zygapi2-piglow      background      enabled; loaded; failed (failed)15:34
zygapi2-piglow      foreground      ; not-found; inactive (dead)15:34
kyrofazyga, I don't actually have an image where that stuff will work :P15:35
zygakyrofa: looking at the service code15:37
zygakyrofa: the condition to see if something is a service is bogus IMHO15:37
zyga            if serviceName != "" && serviceName != name {15:37
zyga                continue15:37
zyga            }15:37
zygaeverything else is a service15:37
kyrofazyga, wait... shouldn't that be using the daemon keyword?15:38
zygain other words _everything_ is a service15:38
zygakyrofa: exactly15:38
zygakyrofa: I'll fix that15:38
zygarevoke works15:51
longsleepogra_: What would i select to upload a snap to the store for 16.04? rolling-core?15:51
zyganow I only want to know which signal does systemd send to stop an app15:51
zyga(a service)15:51
zygaso that piglow can react to it by shutting down the lights before it goes15:52
ogra_longsleep, yeah15:52
zygaah, that's SIGTERM15:55
longsleepogra_: mhm automated review failed, (NEEDS REVIEW) squashfs pkg lint_is_squashfs15:58
longsleepand one warning: unknown entries in package.yaml: 'apps,description,summary,uses' lint_snappy_unknown15:58
ogra_longsleep, sounds like a false positive ... beuno ^^^ ?15:59
ogra_Snapping spreed-webrtc_0.24.11-1_arm64.snap16:00
ogra_FATAL ERROR:Mksquashfs requires more physical memory than is available!16:00
* ogra_ cries16:00
longsleephow much memory did you give that box?16:01
* ogra_ hopes a swapfile will be respected16:01
kyrofaogra_, it will16:01
ogra_cool !16:01
ogra_longsleep, its real HW with 1GB16:01
kyrofaogra_, it's the only way my snaps build on the arms I have here-- a 16GB swapfile :P16:01
ogra_wow, thats bad16:02
longsleepmy vagrant box has 758352 memory and the same as swap and it worked to build16:02
kyrofaogra_, and that's a slight lie. I could make with no -j parameter and it would need less, but then it would take days16:03
longsleepogra_: what hardware do you actually use?16:04
ogra_longsleep, dragonboard16:04
longsleepah ok cool16:04
beunoogra_, longsleep, it is false positives, will ve fixed soon16:04
beunokyrofa, ogra_, you can build snaps on Launchpad!16:05
kyrofabeuno, indeed, and I plan on figuring that all out very soon16:05
kyrofabeuno, but we're doing arm6416:05
kyrofabeuno, launchpad only has 32-bit arms, no?16:05
ogra_kyrofa, hmm, do you use chroots when building ?16:05
kyrofaogra_, no, why?16:06
ogra_kyrofa, no, LP builds our rootfses :)16:06
ogra_so there are also arm64 machines16:06
kyrofaogra_, ah, excellent!16:06
ogra_kyrofa, because i just noticed 1GB is fine ... i just forgot to mount /proc and /sys16:06
beunokyrofa, it as arm64 for snaps  :)16:06
ogra_longsleep, works great !16:13
longsleepogra_: fantastic!16:13
longsleepogra_: thans for testing16:13
ogra_thansk for building !16:13
ogra_so sad the ubuntu phone browser doesnt work with it :(16:17
longsleepwhat html/javascript engine does that browser use?16:18
ogra_not sure ... popey ^^^ do you know ?16:18
ogra_not v8 afaik16:19
popeyit's chromium, so blink.16:19
ogra_blink is the renderer16:19
ogra_and that all we use from chromium afaik ... the js engine was something different16:20
longsleepif its chromium including v8 and the media enginges in the back then it could work with if recent enough16:20
ogra_i'm pretty sure it is neither16:20
longsleepcurrently we support Chromium 38 or newer16:21
longsleepit might somewhat down to Chromium 3016:21
longsleepwork somewhat16:22
* ogra_ asked in #ubuntu-touch 16:22
ogra_we onyl use blink (and even re-work it for Qt)16:22
popey"Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Ubuntu 14.04 like Android 4.4) AppleWebKit/537.36 Chromium/35.0.1870.2 Mobile Safari/537.36"16:23
popeythats OTA-916:23
popeyso chromium 3516:23
ogra_right, doesnt talk about js16:23
longsleepwell, Chromium 35 would be too old in any case to connect to any recent browser16:23
ogra_nor is it chromium beyond the renderer ... thats like using gecko with all your own stiff and showing firefox in the UA :P16:24
ogra_ok, seems i was wrong, it is actually v816:24
longsleepquestion is if all the media extensions are compiled in including the capture code16:25
longsleepwebrtc for that matter16:25
longsleepsrtp :)16:25
ogra_neither of them because they would have to be hooked into the toolkit16:25
ogra_whicfh isnt dont yet16:25
ogra_(my webrtc bug is open since 2.5y ... eventually it will come though :) )16:25
ogra_*isnt done16:26
ogra_we have basic camera and mic access working i think ... just no webrtc integration yet16:27
ogra_i wonder how much would work if we cheated inthe UA though16:28
=== charles_ is now known as charles
longsleepogra_: what do you mean cheating in the UA?16:35
longsleepogra_: we are doing feature detection for pretty much everything, so the UA would not help16:35
ogra_longsleep, telling the server it is chromium 3816:35
ogra_ah, k16:35
gregburdI just tried Snappy for the first time on a NUC.  I like where the project is headed, the integration of a stable upgrade image A->B (and back) is a great step forward.  It takes the best part of CoreOS and grafts it into a Ubuntu world.  Thanks!  The "snappy" package manager is headed in the right direction as well, but I have to wonder (and I'm sure I'm17:16
gregburdnot the first to ask this) why not simply adopt the Nix package manager format?  Why invent yet another thing when Nix seems to have all the bases covered that snappy would like to address (and more)?17:16
ogra_does nic integrate with apparmor and seccomp ?17:17
ogra_does it use squashfs files as readonly filesystems of its packages ?17:17
ogra_(i never heard of Nix, just curious)17:18
ogra_seems to onyl be a package manager though ... you should take a look at snapcraft too if you look at snappy :)17:19
gregburdhttp://sandervanderburg.blogspot.com/2015/04/an-evaluation-and-comparison-of-snappy.html is a good evaluation by a Nix maintainer of Snappy17:19
ogra_snappy (the package manager) is very deeply integrated with the OS too ... it was essentially built around all the things we learned from the phone OS17:20
gregburdSo, I'm not saying "ditch all of Snappy" I'm saying "steal liberally the ideas from Nix and integrate them into Snappy" especially the way that Nix versions and inter-relates package dependencies (sim-link tree with a hash rather than version number used to separate packages).17:21
gregburdI used to work at Amazon/AWS and there we had a similar (to Nix) way of managing package dependencies in deployment (called Brazil) with versioned trees of inter-dependent packages.17:23
gregburdI like that deep integration ogra_ that makes sense.17:23
gregburdIf my mom or some other non-technical person is ever going to experience Ubuntu Desktop then we'll need that level of integration.17:23
gregburdI'm sure that the phone project pushed the developers hard in the direction of super simple/reliable package distribution.17:24
ogra_well, snappy does effectivbely not have any dependencies17:25
ogra_you bundle everything17:25
ogra_(you can have library snaps, but only within your own namespace)17:27
gregburdogra_ isn't that going to hammer memory as each different process brings its own copy of glibc along with it?17:27
ogra_well, glibc is on the system. as long as you dont differ too much you dont really need to ship it (but you can indeed)17:27
ogra_but yeah, there is surely some duplication that will eat some diskspce at least17:28
gregburdmy point is more generally related to shared libraries that will, in a snappy world, be duplicated and not shared17:28
gregburdand RAM and cache lines17:28
gregburdand that's power and performance lost17:29
ogra_right, yxou should just build static binaries if you can :)17:29
gregburder, I disagree17:29
ogra_you prefer shared libs that arent shared ?17:29
gregburdhow is that not going to introduce the same problem?17:29
gregburdno :)17:29
ogra_either way, the confinement wont allow apps to share resources on that level17:30
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
ogra_(unless the libs come from your own namespace ... i.e. libreoffice.ogra wouldnt have to ship boost but could consume libboost.ogra)17:31
gregburdIn the Nix (and Brazil) world a shared lib can indeed be shared by many other packages iff those packages all required the same version/config/build/dependencies that went into building glibc17:31
gregburdSo, where there is overlap the shared libraries are indeed shared17:31
ogra_right, then we are back at dpkg :)17:31
gregburdnot really.17:31
ogra_you ahve deps ... you have the same old probs17:31
ogra_while bundling works just fine in the Mac and Windows world since ages17:32
ogra_and yes, there might be some penalty ... but obviously neither of the other systems is hit by that to hard17:32
gregburdSo, here again we'll disagree (and as a former NeXT engineer I might have some knowledge on this topic)17:33
ogra_(well, for some value of "fine" regarding windows :P )17:33
gregburdBut hey, I'm not here to start a fight17:33
gregburdPlease just consider reviewing the differences between Nix and Snappy with an open mind.17:33
ogra_the point is that theoretically the snap should be completely independent from the OS17:33
ogra_and be used standalone17:33
gregburdOkay, fair point and I'm certain I don't fully get how Snappy is supposed to work as yet.17:34
ogra_so that you can upgrade/rolback both of them completely independent ...17:34
ogra_if you have deps you will hit massive probs with that rollback mechanism for example17:34
gregburdNix can do that as well (if "them" means "various applications and their package dependencies")17:35
ogra_the typical focus is your home router where you install a NAS snap and attch disks, plug in a WLAN stick and can install an AP snap to manage your WIFI ... etc ... also robots where you can install different types of autopilots ...17:35
ogra_while the vision of snappy doesnt stop there and will go towards desktops and phones over time, IoT, small devices, cloud instances and such are the current focus17:36
ogra_i.e. at the current state it is rather unlikely you will see firefox or libreoffice snaps for such devices :)17:37
gregburdSo, here's the thing.  I would have put Ubuntu into deployment today for a rollout of a large number of NUCs that have to be managed as remote Kiosks if it had: 1) an opensource Omaha-esque centralized management setup, 2) a more Nix-like structure for inter-package dependency management and 3) a way to bridge the apt/dpkg world into the Snappy world until17:37
gregburdthe Snappy world is as rich as the existing apt/dpkg world is today (so a way to deal with the practicalities of an incomplete new system).17:37
ogra_but rather the small samba server with a web interface ... or a upnp server or some such17:37
ogra_while you cant bridge it, you can use snappy in classic mode17:38
gregburdI get that, but don't preclude the future use cases with decisions that focus on today.17:38
ogra_(in 16.04 that is)17:38
ogra_snappy enable-classic: snappy shell classic ... and you are in an environment with full apt support ...17:39
ogra_you will not be able to run services in there (they wouldnt survive a reboot) but you can use snapcraft in there to just rapidly snap up wnat you need and turn it into a snap package immediately17:39
gregburdso that's the model for moving existing packages forward?17:40
ogra_that the model for ... well, enabling you to turn anything into a snap quickly17:41
ogra_so there is no need to use dpkg/apt ... its just a small yaml file away to turn anything you need into a snap17:42
gregburdok, that's promising17:42
gregburdanything like the Omaha server/service available yet?17:42
ogra_if you invest a bit more you can also write a config hook for any deb you use that can be accessed through snappys REST api17:43
ogra_never heard of omaha ... is that like puppet/chef ?17:43
* longsleep has heard of Omaha beach17:44
ogra_drinks and sun !17:44
ogra_ah, no need for that :)17:45
ogra_snappy cares17:45
ogra_there is a builtin auto-update service that queries the sotre regulary17:45
gregburdso, that's great but sometimes services will need to have centralized control of the rollout of new software - limit the damage, etc.17:46
ogra_if you update your snap in the store it gets pushed out17:46
ogra_the store has staging areas17:46
gregburdhow are end devices assigned to various channels?17:47
ogra_so you can push stuff to the edge channel and have your QA people pull that first ... once they give green light you can switchj it over to stable17:47
ogra_thats a good question someone from the architects needs to answer :)17:47
ogra_i havent played with that yet beyond ... well snappy install <packagename>/edge  ... which is the manual variant17:48
ogra_i assume you can define it image wide via your gadget snap (which effectively defines the whole system of an image)17:49
gregburdI'll have to review that part of Snappy, but I'm not sure it provides the level of control and flexibility I needed for a service that I used to run at Amazon/AWS.17:50
gregburdinteresting discussion, thanks for the time17:50
* gregburd back to work!17:50
popeyogra_: do you have an example of a snap that needs network access?19:13
popey(I assume network is blocked by default unless specified)19:13
ogra_i think client is always allowed ... (not sure about the snapcraft 2.0 world though)19:13
popeyyeah, 2.x19:15
ogra_popey, https://github.com/strukturag/spreed-webrtc-snap/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml  see the "uses" thing between line 13 and 16 ... then see line 11 how the binary/service  uses it19:15
popeyI'm getting odd network errors so assume not19:15
zygaogra_: there ware some back and forth but I think we'll see snaps *not* getting network access in 16.04 unless they asked for it20:10
zygapopey: ^^20:10
zygapopey: so do ask for the migration-skill and for the network-client cap20:10
zygaor something20:10
* zyga really EODs20:11
kyrofaogra_, hey does classic dimension not work on the dragon image?20:33
kyrofazyga, ah, good to know!20:34
kyrofazyga, I think that's smart20:34
kyrofazyga, oh you're gone20:34
kyrofaogra_, I get 'needle "ubuntu;xenial;arm64;default;" not found20:35
kyrofaelopio, you may know something about that ^^  too, perhaps?20:37
elopioneedle? no, I don't know about that. I still have to find some time to resume my dragonboard testing.20:38
plarselopio: some output from the checkbox-ized version of the tests... there are a few permission problems, possibly because we are running them from a snap? http://paste.ubuntu.com/15122636/21:12
robert_ancellelopio, can you give me some pointers on a user test for https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/409?22:02
elopiorobert_ancell: from your comment, I suppose we could write a test that installs and remove a snap without sudo. I know nothing about polkit, so I'm not sure how we could set up the configuration for that user.23:05
robert_ancellelopio, You'd probably want to to run a mock polkit service, but there's no mocked d-bus services in snappy currently are there?23:06
elopiorobert_ancell: basically this: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/integration-tests/tests/installApp_test.go#L5823:06
elopiowithout sudo with polkit.23:06
elopiorobert_ancell: no, there is not. But running the tests we have sudo, so we could get it working, I guess.23:08
elopiobut before exploring the mock option, is there a reason we can't use the real service?23:08
robert_ancellelopio, I'm just don't know what environment you are running in. You probably want to test the two cases with PolicyKit (accepted / declined)23:21
elopiorobert_ancell: We are running this in a snappy system in scalingstack, bbb and raspberry pi. In my ignorance, I imagine that there's a way to tell polkit that the ubuntu user can install apps. And then there's a way to tell it to revoke that permission.23:23
elopiothen we just run snappy install and check the result.23:23
robert_ancellelopio, is that ubuntu-core?23:24
robert_ancellBecause then we wont have polkit23:24
robert_ancellIf we can write the polkit config, we can configure both cases23:24
elopiorobert_ancell: so, how are you going to install polkit on your system?23:25
robert_ancellThat's a challenge...23:26
elopiorobert_ancell: ok, I would say that's the first step. In the ideal scenario, we will be able to install it just as you install it, and then we can run a test to make sure that we will never break your system.23:59

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