Sweet5harkrobert_ancell: here is a recent output of libreoffice ./configure --help. I assume every second or third --with-foo or --enable-foo option might break: http://pastebin.com/NpkmD4BR00:04
sarnold  --disable-coinmp        Disable compilation of the CoinMP solver00:05
Sweet5harkrobert_ancell: oh, yes: we will also bundle dictionaries for all languages with the snap, I assume?00:07
robert_ancellSweet5hark, Can they download on demand?00:08
Sweet5harkrobert_ancell: so far we provided them as proper packages installed along with lang support. But yes, if they find an language dict on extensions.libreoffice.org they might install it (to ~) just like windoze users would. Except that many dictionaries arent published on that page, but spread all over the internets, so many will do some easter egg hunt for their dicts ...00:12
Sweet5hark... and then end up installing something malicious from an untrusted source.00:12
happyaronLaney: can you refresh the upload rights for ubuntukylin packageset?03:27
tjaaltondoes lightdm auto-adjust the scaling factor now?05:29
tjaaltonscaling in unity doesn't seem to work at all (xenial)05:32
alkisgHi, so, to check how our packages appstream data shows up, we're supposed to install gnome-software, right?07:04
alkisgIt's so bare... it always lists apps as "coming from a 3rd party", it doesn't list the version or license or source or size of the programs etc07:04
alkisgIt's not even in the gnome menu, I have to launch it from the command line07:04
alkisgAm I testing it wrong?07:05
alkisgI search for "gedit" and it shows "seahorse", it doesn't have an index of available programs... is it supposed to be so broken or am I looking at the wrong application?07:06
* alkisg just ran `apt-get install gnome-software`, hope I'm not missing any suggested packages that make it less functional...07:12
seb128good morning desktopers07:40
pittiGood morning07:42
seb128hey pitti!07:43
seb128wie gehts?07:43
cyphermoxmorning amigos07:45
cyphermoxit's not my morning, I was just checking back on IRC before passing out.07:45
flocculantha ha07:46
seb128hey cyphermox07:47
pittihey seb128 ! terribly tired, I hardly slept at all for some  reason07:47
seb128lol I was going to ask07:47
seb128cyphermox, have a good night ;-)07:47
seb128pitti, oh :-(07:47
seb128pitti, strong tea time!07:47
cyphermoxgood day ;)07:47
pittiseb128: dentist time too!07:47
seb128good luck07:47
seb128cyphermox, thanks ;-)07:47
seb128hey Sweet5hark1!07:57
Sweet5hark1seb128: heya08:01
seb128going to grab a coffee and something to eat, bbiab08:04
alkisgHi guys, let me ask again, gnome-software currently is quite empty (no index in the inital page, no categories, no working search etc), is that to be expected or is it an issue with my local installation?08:29
alkisg(I'm asking here because a mail instructed us to use it to check the appstream data in our packages, and to direct questions to #ubuntu-desktop)08:36
willcookemorning all.  Still no SSL on Freenode for me :(09:01
seb128hey andyrock willcooke Laney09:03
seb128alkisg, did you apt-get update since you installed it? do you have the current appstream version?09:04
seb128Laney, doing good today?09:04
alkisgseb128: I've apt-get updated, `apt-cache search appstream` shows nothing, is that a package?09:05
seb128alkisg, dpkg -l | grep appstream-util09:06
alkisgWhoops sorry I ran the previous one in a 12.04 chroot. So, I have "appstream     0.9.1-1ubuntu" but not appstream-util.09:07
seb128you might not need util09:08
seb128and what is after that 1"ubuntu"09:08
alkisgIt didn't make any changes09:08
seb128you cut the part which is interesting09:08
alkisg0.9.1-1ubuntu1, sorry small term09:08
seb128that's old09:08
seb128we are at 1ubuntu609:08
seb128no, sorry09:09
seb128what about libappstream-glib8?09:09
* alkisg apt-get updated a few minutes ago...09:09
seb128alkisg, do you get any result if you "appstreamcli search ."?09:10
alkisgYup, I get a lot of results there09:11
seb128dpkg -l | grep gnome-software?09:11
alkisglibappstream-glib8:i386 0.5.8-1ubuntu609:11
seb128what version do you have for that one?09:12
alkisggnome-software 3.19.5+git20160212.a64f331-0ubuntu109:12
seb128I'm out of ideas sorry09:12
seb128maybe Laney has a clue09:12
seb128seems to be an issue on the gnome-software side09:13
alkisgDo you guys see the software in categories?09:13
seb128can you run it with --debug and share the log?09:13
alkisgE.g. I have a freshly installed xenial vm, if I just run `apt-get install gnome-software; apt-get update` then I'm supposed to see the software categories etc?09:13
alkisgAh, much better09:15
alkisggnome-software was running as a pid even without a window09:15
alkisgSo all my tries were relaunching the already running, hidden version of it09:15
* alkisg sees categories etc now...09:15
alkisg(after pkilling it )09:16
alkisgThank you seb12809:16
Laneyhey, sorry, had a few emails to read ;-)09:20
Laneydon't like that you have to update another time after installing appstream09:20
seb128hey Laney ;-)09:20
pittihey Laney09:20
* Laney wonders how to fix that09:20
seb128can we make that update a trigger09:20
Laneynot really09:20
seb128or in the postinst or something09:20
Laneyit's a config file to apt09:20
alkisgApart from that, there was also the problem of gnome-software not really closing when its window is closed09:21
Laneyto download some more files from the mirror09:21
Laneyyeah that's a gnome thing, apps do that now09:21
seb128alkisg, right, that's worth a bug report09:21
seb128I wonder if that's a new gnome thing09:21
seb128got similar problems with calendar09:21
seb128Laney, do you know why?09:21
seb128it means things keep using resources even after being closed09:22
seb128that has to be a bug09:22
seb128or are we going phone mode and never closing anything and hopping the oom does the job?09:22
LaneyI don't really know much about it09:23
alkisgIf ran from the command line, when I close the window, I don't get a prompt, and when I press ctrl+c, the "background process" closes normally, so I'm guessing it's a gtk quit handling issue...09:23
seb128or a "feature"09:23
seb128but please report a bug about it09:23
Laneybut it's about single instance09:23
Laneyhey pitti!09:25
darkxsthey desktopers09:32
seb128Laney, is gnome-software supposed to use the same screenshots data than software-center?09:32
willcookehey darkxst, how goes?09:32
seb128Laney, e.g https://screenshots.debian.net09:33
seb128hey darkxst09:33
LaneyI think it can fall back to that but upstream are supposed to supply them but also ximion mentioned that he needs to fix something to do with screenshots09:33
darkxsthey willcooke, Im good again now!09:33
willcookedarkxst, glad to hear it :)09:34
darkxstLaney, what are the icon requirements for appstream? must have 64x or anything higher?09:34
Laneyhigher is ok09:34
darkxstLaney, gnome-weather has 256x but is still failing09:35
darkxstwillcooke, the side effects from the miracle drugs are crap!09:36
Laneydarkxst: lemme see09:39
darkxstLaney, thanks09:40
willcookeseb128, Laney - I've noticed some lag in the loading of the icons in categories.  Is that normal?  Oh, actually - no, today its fine.  Ignore09:43
seb128willcooke, I didn't notice it09:44
willcookeseb128, seems ok today.  Might be a first run thing I guess.  I'll see if I can reproduce it, but I don't think its a big issue09:45
seb128the UI feels responsive and looks ok09:45
seb128I miss being able to sort categories by rating though09:46
willcookeI *really* like it so far09:46
seb128I wonder if that should be the default?09:46
willcookeI think alphabetical should be the default09:46
willcookebut a rating sort order would be really handy09:47
seb128for me it doesn't get added to the unity dash "most recently used"09:49
seb128even after killing the service09:49
seb128I wonder if that has to do with the service mode09:49
willcookesame here09:55
* Sweet5hark1 is feeling so snappy today. dunno why.10:37
* Sweet5hark1 thows some red meat in the air for Laney to fetch ...10:37
willcookeSweet5hark1, breakfast wine is the answer10:44
seb128is that a thing?10:44
willcookeit is in my house today10:44
* seb128 would rather go for the whisky in the coffee10:44
Sweet5hark1wine? Ok, Im going with a Tullibardine 228 Burgundy Finish. There is burgundy in it, so it qualifies as wine on my book.10:46
willcookeit's all just fruit juice10:46
* willcooke goes for a top up10:47
Laneydarkxst: haha10:49
Laney"            # FIXME: Do we support icon names which contain a dot?10:49
darkxstLaney, oh right, wtf!10:52
Laney"ummmmmmmmmmmm, yes please"10:52
darkxstLaney, I'll send them a whipping, though tomorrow, sleep now10:55
Laneydarkxst: looking at the code10:55
Laneyximion is here!10:55
Laneyximion: looking at https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/issues/gnome-weather.html and http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/gnome-weather.html - seems you have a fail-fast path if the icon filename contains a '.'10:59
seb128Laney, so screenshots, I guess it has some support because it displays the widget just says the image is invalid when there is/should be one10:59
Laneywhich breaks this case10:59
Laneyit does10:59
seb128where for some others it doesn't display the widget10:59
Laneyjust needs some kind of fixing10:59
Laneyno worries10:59
seb128also it seems there is still the bug about it considering packages third party non free11:00
seb128robert had an upload to fix that I think, I guess it doesn't work/needs more fixing11:00
ximionLaney: heh, I even knew about that when writing the code, but assumed there were no apps having dots in their icon filename... So, again, more complexity is needed in the icon handler11:03
ximionI'll fix that in a few minutes11:03
Laneyximion: can you make the check smarter or just delete it?11:04
Laneyximion: also another check needed for ubuntu contents files, pr coming up :)11:04
Laneyand hey, :)11:04
Laneyhow's deutschland today?11:05
ximionLaney: I need to make that check smarter, removing it will break a lot more other apps11:05
ximionthe icon stuff is really dumb ^^11:05
ximiongreat and sunny :) - I'm not at the lab today, which is why you find me online :D11:06
ximion(at this time)11:06
ximionLaney: what would be more important for Ubuntu in terms of metadata: having font components in the AppStream metadata, or having information about which software is localized in which language to what percent?11:10
Laneyximion: what does gnome-software know how to deal with?11:10
ximionthe latter is so complex on Debian based systems, I am not sure if the additional processing effort would be worth the potential gain - on Fedora, this is a bit easier to implement, since they don't split the software into so many binary packages11:11
ximion(unless it's LaTeX, there they seem to go nuts)11:11
Laneyyou would parse the .mo files or something?11:11
ximionLaney: yes and possibly other formats - problem is, I need to find them too, which means another call to the Contents list and extracting even more packages, and the package extraction is the really expensive thing11:12
ximionI am actually thinking about rewriting some of those performance-critical things in C and have Python call that code... Not 100% sure about that yet, though, since python-apt also hooks into what is mostly C++ code11:12
ximionGS can handle both11:13
ximionbut only uses the l10n data for sorting, and I think it also sometimes displays an "available in your language" badge11:13
LaneyI guess you would want to factor out the contents handling11:13
Laneythere is scope for modularisation here11:13
ximionproblem is, that if a binary uses 10% of it's srings from its own gettext domain, but the other 90% come from shared libraries, it's impossible to give an accurate measurement of localization11:14
tjaaltonwillcooke, seb128: there is one blocker with nvidia still holding back the new xserver, so maybe I need to file a FFE bug?11:14
ximionLaney: reading any .deb file data is by far the most expensive task, followed by reading the Contents.gz files, followed by reading other Packages.gz and supplimentary data - that are the big cost items, at least, there are a few smaller ones which sum up since they're called often11:15
ximionbut not as much as .deb file reading, which is both expensive and called always11:15
Laneythat's unavoidably expensive11:17
ximionLaney: btw, when you boostrap a new architecture or suite using the generator, you can now use the prepopulate-cache action, which will at least set the packages which definitely have no interesting data to ignore11:17
ximionthat speeds up the initial processing run massively11:17
ximionbut requires that your contents file is up2date, otherwise you will loose information11:18
ximionexists for a while now, but I didn't document it yet, to search for issues11:18
LaneyI reckon we could make use of a copy-suite action too11:18
Laneysince our new releases start out as copies11:18
* desrt yawns11:18
ximionLaney: that should work out of the box, since the database doesn't know about suites at all11:19
ximiononly about package versions, so when a new suite is added, it will only process the package versions it doesn't know yet and skip the rest11:19
ximion(= take the very same data)11:19
Laneywhy do you need the prepopulate thing then?11:19
ximiononly when you deleted the cache or when you add a new architecture, which brings in tons of new package/version/arch combinations11:20
ximion(when I want to reprocess everything, it's really useful)11:22
ximiona delete-by-tag command will also be nice in future11:23
LaneyI wrote a script to do that11:23
* Laney is cool11:23
* Laney PRs11:28
willcooketjaalton, seb128 - ack11:33
pittiLaney: do you still remember the bugzillla # about "double-click in terminal doesn't select URLs any more"?11:43
pittiAFAIR upstream considered that a feature, not a bug11:43
Laneypitti: my awesome bar seems to have forgotten about it11:44
pittimine too :/11:44
LaneyI use right click -> copy url11:44
pittiLaney: I found https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640727, but that's older and the inverse problem11:44
ubot5Gnome bug 640727 in general "Links having a colon in the middle are not selected completely" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]11:44
seb128tjaalton, wfm, should be easy to get11:48
pittiLaney: oh, bug 1501250 and that links to the upstream bug11:53
ubot5bug 1501250 in Gnome Virtual Terminal Emulator "double clicking on a URL drops the protocol from the URL" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150125011:53
LaneyI was searching for 'select'11:54
tjaaltonwillcooke, seb128: another update I'd like to get in is mesa 11.2, which will release -rc1 tomorrow and final around Mar 11th. then it would still get first or maybe even second bugfix pointrelease before final freeze11:55
tjaaltoni'll push rc1 in the staging ppa11:56
ximionLaney: I dropped the dot-check afterall, there is no way to implement this safely if we assume that dots in icon filenames are common12:00
ximionbtw, the Contents.gz of unstable should be included on Ubuntu even when main is processed, AFAIK12:01
Laneyximion: that's what I thought, either that or do a check for the filename + extensions which would be expensive and this is supposed to be a fail fast case - thanks!12:02
Laneyximion: universe?12:02
Laneyit is - but we can't read it because of that bug12:02
ximionah, then it's good that this is fixed now, thanks!12:03
willcooketjaalton, thanks12:03
ximionwell, if we check against a list of filenames, we still get and error, because ".Application" isn't recognized as allowed icon filetype12:04
willcookeinteresting:  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=81500612:04
ubot5Debian bug 815006 in iceweasel "Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox" [Normal,Open]12:04
desrtgood morning everyone12:07
desrtwillcooke: looks mostly like compromise from the debian side to me12:08
Laneyhey hey desrt12:08
willcookehi desrt, still suffering with jetlag?12:08
desrtif i knew what waking up at 6am was like i would have been doing it all along!12:08
desrt(...until next week when i finally give out)12:08
Laneyif only waking up at 6am was like that normally12:08
desrtthe key to waking up at 6 is going to bed at 1012:09
desrtwhich, so far, has not been too big of a problem12:09
desrtonce that starts slipping, i'm doomed12:09
desrt" In case of derivatives of Debian, Firefox branding can be used as long as the patches applied are in the same category as described above. "12:11
desrtthat's a pretty weak statement from mozilla, and it's surprising to see debian change their position based on that12:11
desrtconsidering "in the same category" in this case means "architecture-specific portability patches"12:11
desrtgood to see debian back off a bit on this issue, in any case... some moderation here is probably not a bad thing12:15
Laneywhat's the argument12:17
Laneyit's okay because if we needed to rename we could do it?12:18
desrtthe argument is (seemingly) that mozilla released a friendly (albeit weak and vague) statement toward debian so we should all feel nice12:18
=== hikiko is now known as hikiko|ln
desrtindeed it would have been nice if they had included something along the lines of "we guarantee that we will never ask you to change the branding of firefox in a stable release or after feature freeze" or something like that12:20
desrtbut they didn't do that12:21
desrtbut this was never the original argument (at least as far as i understood it)... it was about the fact that even if mozilla was happy about debian's usage, it's clear that they may have become unhappy about derivative usage if that usage made more substantive changes to firefox... which was a restriction that debian saw as out of step with the DFSG12:22
desrtthis remains completely unaddressed except by that one sentence about "derivatives can do the same stuff that you've been doing"... which is not much...12:23
desrtof course mozilla is no bully here... they need to protect their mark, and there are real cases of people abusing firefox's reputation to harm users in the real world... it's always been about how "morally flexible" debian is willing to be with the letter of the law in order to do something that is clearly moral in spirit12:25
desrtand that, more than anything else, seems to be what is changing here.  an interesting development.12:25
Laneythere was a specific problem originally about some patches Debian made - Mozilla themselves explicitly revoked trademark permission12:27
Laney10 years ago-ish12:27
desrtoutright, or as an ultimatum?12:28
Laneyit was a bug report like "hi, I'm from mozilla, please rename your package"12:28
desrtit was thunderbird, fwiw12:28
desrtand it was mike connor.  nice.12:28
LaneyDon't see why this couldn't happen all over again12:29
LaneyI can see the arguments that it is in line with the DFSG12:29
Laneybut seems annoying nonetheless12:29
desrtmozilla has said almost nothing that changes the situation12:30
Laneypresumably a part of this is that the maintainer works for mozilla now12:30
desrtperfect.  put a mozilla employee in charge of packaging and move it to non-free.  problem solved :D12:30
* Sweet5hark1 spills some oil into the discussion with: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies/Trademark_Policy#Use for comparision.12:42
* ogra_ checks if he accidentially ended up in #ubuntu-legal12:44
Laneywe're about as well informed as debian-legal :P12:44
Sweet5hark1lets retroactively establish IANAL as an acronym for "I am not a layman" and sue everyone based in common law countries over legal advise!12:46
Laneyseb128: looks like we managed the webkit switch in one image12:46
Laneywant to do some hardcore demoting?12:46
* desrt renames her fork to Liberated OpenLibreOffice12:52
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch
=== maclin1 is now known as maclin
=== hikiko|ln is now known as hikiko
seb128Laney, great, well done! sure I can do that ;-)13:16
Laneynow something weird has happened in this glib release13:17
Laney/usr/bin/install -c ./libglib-gdb.py /<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/debian/install/deb/usr/share/gdb/auto-load/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0.4706.0-gdb.py13:17
Laneynice path13:17
Laneybut looks like it is actually right!13:18
* willcooke late lunches13:38
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g
seb128Laney, sphinx didn't migrate yet so not much demotion14:33
seb128mitya57, ^ are you looking at that one?14:42
mitya57seb128, not yet, will look now14:50
seb128mitya57, thanks14:50
seb128happyaron, hey, do we need fcitx to recommends fcitx-frontend-all? could we limit the recommends to (gtk2)gtk3&qt5?15:05
mitya57seb128, Laney: uploaded pyresample with fixed tests which should unblock sphinx15:07
seb128Mirv, mitya57, Laney, willcooke, what do you think about making indicator-appmenu stop recommending appmenu-qt and unseeding sni-qt but make those rather a recommends from some qt4 binary? it looks like we could get qt4 out of the iso/default installation15:07
seb128mitya57, great, thanks!15:07
mitya57seb128, +1 to this idea15:09
mitya57Though, from Qt we can recommend sni-qt but it would be a bit ugly to recommend appmenu-qt (which is the server side of SNI spec)15:12
* willcooke checks rdepends on qt415:12
seb128willcooke, on the iso it's only fcitx/appmenu/sni15:20
willcookeoh, cool15:20
seb128which are integration with qt4 softwares, so not needed if there is no qt4 applications15:20
willcookesorry, I got distracted and forgot I was supposed to be looking at that15:20
seb128yeah, I sort of forgot too15:20
willcookethen +115:20
seb128but we got a part of the qt4 stack uninstalled today with the software-center drop since that took off the ubuntuone package that was still using qt15:21
seb128which made me look at the remaining items15:22
seb128mitya57, yeah, I don't have a good idea, we don't have a way to state "install that if unity is installed"15:22
seb128we could let to users to install those but most wouldn't and wouldn't have correct integration15:23
seb128(have to go pick up somebody, bbiab)15:23
mitya57OK, I guess it's not a problem to add a recommends on appmenu-qt, at least for LTS15:23
mitya57If it's recommends, it's easy for users to avoid installing it if they don't want to.15:24
andyrockanyone managed to install gnome-software from sources?15:45
andyrocki used to be able before15:45
andyrockbut now i cant' install apps with my own g-s15:46
andyrocki get "installation failed" even if the app has been installed15:46
Mirvseb128: getting qt4 out would be very nice, I agree15:48
pittiwow, so software-center fell off the image? nice, congrats!16:07
willcookegood work team!16:08
Laneyit was more pushed16:12
Laney(seed change16:13
andyrockseb128: g-s is going to use aptd to install/remove/etc things right?16:14
willcookeseb128, should g-s be added to the launcher by default?  (I dont think it is atm)16:21
willcookeLaney, do you know how the "editor picks" work?16:21
LaneyI think they are hardcoded16:23
willcookeso they'll always be the same?16:23
willcookeI wonder if we can mix that up, or indeed become "the editor" ourselves on a rotational basis :)16:24
LaneyI would imagine that you would want to make it possible to change it externally16:24
willcookeI'll open a bug with some thoughts16:25
=== charles_ is now known as charles
LaneyLooks like plugins can influence this list16:30
willcookeah nice16:30
ubot5Launchpad bug 1547095 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Featured and Editors Picks are hard-coded" [Undecided,New]16:30
robert_ancellSweet5hark, is bug 958345 resolved for LO?17:07
ubot5bug 958345 in ttf-indic-fonts (Ubuntu) "ttf-indic-fonts packages are outdated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95834517:07
robert_ancellI *think* it is17:07
Sweet5harkrobert_ancell: sorry, will look at in 60 minutes -- in a call now17:17
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
seb128andyrock, yeah, it's using aptd, but better to ask robert_ancell about details17:32
seb128willcooke, yeah, good point for the launcher17:32
seb128robert_ancell, hey, g-s still seems to think that all softwares are third-party/non-free, did your fix still work for you? also is that normal/known that none of the "translated/documented/integrated with the system" seem ever acked?17:34
willcookeseb128, I'll open a bug17:34
seb128robert_ancell, also the "updated" and "license" are unknown17:35
robert_ancellseb128, yes, the third party thing is known - we need to mark things that come from main/universe. I have a couple of solutions, not sure how reliable they are. The non-free is because we don't know the licenses. That could come from appstream or we could just mark main/universe as "Open Source". The translated/documented/integrated come from appstream.17:35
robert_ancellThey're all fixable I think, though the solution might just be to hide them.17:35
robert_ancellPlease file bugs if not there already.17:35
willcookerobert_ancell, do you know if there is anywhere in g-s to show prices?17:36
willcookeI assume not since most things will be assumed to be free17:36
robert_ancellwillcooke, G-S has no concept of prices.17:36
seb128robert_ancell, willcooke, is that only me who find the "was this review useful" and "report abuse" buttons to be given too much importance?17:36
robert_ancellseb128, Yeah, I see that too - ask aday17:37
seb128like they are quite noticable but I would assume they are not the most used thing in comments17:37
robert_ancellThey were designed / added by GNOME17:37
seb128would you usually ask on IRC or file a bug?17:37
robert_ancellseb128, bug then IRC/email17:37
robert_ancelladay seems very busy, so I never see him online17:37
seb128robert_ancell, oh, also do you know if it's normal that gnome-software doesn't exit on close?17:38
robert_ancellseb128, yes, it seems to run some sort of service for noticing upgrades. We should probably disable that (there's a bug on LP relating to that dialog)17:38
seb128it's especially annoying because it makes the unity dash not list it17:39
seb128well I assume it's due to that, at least if it's running the dash stop listing it17:39
seb128but it's not in the most recently used even after closing so there might be something else17:39
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, I thinking these feature can all be fixed between FF and UI Freeze17:41
seb128even after uif17:41
seb128those are mostly bugfixes17:41
robert_ancellseb128, did you have any info on the desirability of the offline updates?17:45
seb128robert_ancell, I think it would be considered a good improvement17:46
seb128how easy would it be to enable?17:47
robert_ancellseb128, do you know if it works on Ubuntu17:47
robert_ancellseb128, it's there, but I don't know if it works17:47
seb128willcooke might know better about partner/design opinion on the topic17:47
seb128I've no idea17:47
seb128I can try to play with that tomorrow though17:47
robert_ancellI figure we either fix/support it or disable the button17:47
seb128maybe Laney knows17:47
robert_ancellIt does somewhat overlap with update-manager17:47
seb128it's quite a big change17:48
seb128unsure it's safe to include now for the LTS17:48
seb128but it could be nice to have it working on possible to turn on17:48
seb128maybe some oem images would do that17:48
willcookesorry, what is offline updates?17:49
seb128willcooke, windows style, apply them on shutdown/reboot17:49
Laneyit uses some systemd thing17:49
Laneydon't know if that is set up for us17:50
seb128pitti, ^ do you know if that should work on deb/ubuntu?17:50
Laneybut the idea is a sound one imo17:50
seb128willcooke, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OfflineSystemUpdates17:50
seb128willcooke, that basically solve all the issue of doing in session updates/replaces things being in use under their feet17:51
willcookejust reading it now17:52
willcookeso the issue is that the UI which handles this is not Ubu-themed?17:52
seb128I guess that's one17:53
seb128I would be more concerned about the fact that it's quite a workflow change and a new untested stack handling your updates17:53
seb128thinking about it, that feels risky to do by default17:54
robert_ancellwillcooke, the issue is A: there is a button in GNOME Software, but not in update manager (Do we add one). And B: Don't know if there's work required to make it work17:54
seb128you don't want to have LTS updates handled by some new untested stack17:54
willcookesure why not17:54
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, that was my feeling, unless someone has more experience to tell us otherwise17:54
willcookeI crack myself up.17:54
seb128robert_ancell, I would say to not bother for ff and not do it by default17:55
robert_ancellwillcooke, I heard your stress levels were too low, opt in for some more features!17:55
willcookeSounds like something for 16.10 to me17:55
willcookerobert_ancell, :D:D:D17:55
seb128but getting it to work for those who want to opt in would be nice17:55
willcookesee the conversation about breakfast wine from earlier on17:55
seb128willcooke, robert_ancell, I can see that as a nice thing oems install might want to opt in17:56
robert_ancellseb128, yeah17:56
robert_ancellPerhaps a gsettings key will be enough17:56
seb128well maybe it get enough testing and it's something we feel safe tell them they can use by LTS .3 or something17:56
seb128like get opt in from tech users17:56
seb128see how it goes17:56
willcookeright, is it something which we could sru?  sounds like yes17:56
seb128and it if it goes well we can decide to enable later17:57
willcookesounds wise to me17:58
mdeslaurugh, offline updates mean users don't get timely security updates17:59
Laneyas opposed to thinking they have them because they've installed by not restarted18:00
Laneyoffline updates mean you know you have all updates applied18:00
mdeslaurand waiting for your laptop to shutdown like windows is a pretty awful user experience18:00
mdeslaurLaney: pff18:00
* Laney just yesterday did a stupid update and restart services dance for glibc18:01
willcookethats what I was supposed to do this morning18:01
mdeslaurnow that every other platform has live app updates, let's try and not regress to 1999 with an update on shutdown scenario :P18:05
Laneyit's for system components, which other platforms do offline18:06
seb128so it only suggest it when you have a need-reboot package?18:06
Laneyand it's restart & update, not update & shutdown18:06
mdeslaurugh, even worse18:06
seb128I hate it on windows as well18:06
seb128last time I want to play a game I ended up having to wait for windows to finish applying updates18:07
seb128and 1h30 later it was too late to play18:07
Laneyhave you tried this implementation?18:07
Laneyeither of you18:07
seb128no, that was the start of the question, asking if it's supposed to work/if we can try it18:08
mdeslaurisn't it what fedora does?18:08
mdeslauror is it different?18:08
seb128also I was commenting on the concept of blocking the computer to do updates18:08
seb128I don't need to try it to know that it's time I can't use the machine :p18:08
seb128but yeah, maybe it takes less than 15s and it's fine18:09
seb128need to play with it to see ;-)18:09
seb128robert_ancell, Laney, willcooke, reading the fedora wiki, there is at least a part which is implemented in packagekit so unsure it's going to work with aptdaemon18:13
LaneyI bet it requires pk 1.018:14
Laneyit's like -> tell systemd to boot into some target18:14
seb128wiki says 0.8.118:14
Laney-> in that target do the update18:14
Laney-> restart18:14
seb128thing is we can't co-install packagekit and aptdaemon18:15
seb128and I guess aptdaemon doesn't implement those functions18:15
seb128so not going to work18:15
Laneyit's probably just a dist-upgrade in that target18:15
Laney...pkcompat must do that...18:16
seb128I'm going to give it a try after ff ;-)18:16
robert_ancellseb128, I think we *can* install aptdaemon and PackageKit 1.0, as long as we remove the PackageKit compatibility layer from aptdaemon18:16
Laneyrrrrrrrright, laters18:16
seb128Laney, bye18:16
robert_ancellLaney, cya18:17
robert_ancellLaney, nice work on the appstream stuff btw!18:17
seb128robert_ancell, right, which start sounding like too risky/much work for this cycle18:17
robert_ancellseb128, exactly18:17
seb128so yeah18:17
seb12816.10 thing then18:17
robert_ancellUnless fairies and unicorns solve the issues18:17
robert_ancell(I'm out of those at the moment)18:18
Sweet5harkrobert_ancell: thx wrt bug 958345 -- resolved now.18:37
ubot5bug 958345 in ttf-indic-fonts (Ubuntu) "ttf-indic-fonts packages are outdated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95834518:37
Sweet5hark(for libreoffice)18:37
robert_ancellseb128, can you remove from the archive?18:38
robert_ancellCould you look at ^^ and remove those old font packages18:38
seb128robert_ancell, ok18:39
robert_ancellwillcooke, if you ever find yourself writing "should" in a bug title I'd say you need to reword it :)18:40
seb128that's what mpt said iirc18:41
seb128not sure I agree with that :p18:41
robert_ancellseb128, it makes the description unnecessarily longer (harder to parse) and it implies you have already decided the solution rather  than stating the problem18:42
seb128well, sort of18:42
seb128the first part is right18:42
seb128but like "shouldn't segfault on invalid password" is not really something you decided the solution on18:43
willcookerobert_ancell, ack :)18:43
seb128sure it could be worded "segfaults on invalid password"18:43
robert_ancellIn that case the solution is (probably) obvious, but the later description is better18:43
robert_ancellThe "should" discourages thinking about alternative solutions18:43
seb128I tend to word things with "should" because I find it more "polite" I think18:44
seb128but that's probably a personal/non native speaker issue :p18:44
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, I was thinking it might be that. To me "should" can be taken aggressively / be seen as arrogant18:45
robert_ancellFor example "GNOME Software should support the display of prices for purchasing software" says we have to modify GNOME Software in a specific way. The issue is "Support purchasing software" which could potentially be solved in other ways / codebases.18:45
seb128to me should says "it would be nice"18:46
seb128where the direct form is more an order18:46
seb128like "do that"18:46
robert_ancellseb128, that's the literal translation, but if I said to you "You should leave the room" it's quite an assertive statement.18:46
robert_ancellI'm not really giving you a choice.18:46
seb128but people don't use should that way in bug titles18:47
seb128or that's not the most common case18:47
seb128they tend use it for e.g "should give better feedback about foo"18:47
seb128to say "having better feedback would be nice"18:47
robert_ancellMy interpretation is the more agressive one. Of course that will vary. But also Engineers aren't known for having the best communication skills.18:47
seb128but yeah, I see your point18:47
seb128point taken, you are probably right ;-)18:48
seb128language is hard! :p18:48
robert_ancellIt's not as tightly defined as code.18:48
tjaaltonrobert_ancell: hi, does lightdm do some autoscaling in xenial, or is it unity-greeter?18:57
robert_ancelltjaalton, that would be unity-greeter18:58
tjaaltonalright, thx18:58
seb128tjaalton, you are going to say that the transition to the desktop doesn't look right? ;-)18:58
tjaaltonseb128: that too, everything looks tiny18:59
tjaaltonand scaling in the session doesn't work18:59
seb128how doesn't work?18:59
tjaaltonmoving the slider does nothing18:59
tjaaltonis it logged somewhere?19:00
seb128what logged? unity?19:01
tjaaltonof course..19:01
seb128hum, I tried  rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar  to reproduce a rb segfault (just uploaded a fix for that)19:01
seb128their toolbar layout is actually nice19:01
* willcooke installs19:03
seb128willcooke, you can enable it in the tools->plugins19:04
seb128but there are segfault when you try to play (fixed with the libdmapsharing upload I just did)19:04
willcookechanges the plugins window too19:05
willcookeno seg fault here on play19:05
seb128but it's more the top bar which I like19:05
seb128oh, you probably need daap enable for that to matter19:05
seb128that's where the segfault is19:05
seb128anyway the default toolbar feels clumsy19:06
seb128like different height for the widgets19:06
seb128that one looks nice, though the artwork is a big small19:06
willcookealthough I just hit a situation where I couldnt open the plugins window without a restart19:06
seb128right, if you enable/disable it seems to go wrong19:07
seb128like probably something unrefed uncorrectly on unload19:07
willcookejust added the vol slider in options too19:07
seb128I wonder if we should do that by default19:08
seb128feels much nicer to me19:08
willcookeand disable "enhanced plug ins dialogue"19:08
willcookenot so keen on the "modern" option19:09
seb128what I like is just to have everything in the toolbar at the same height19:10
willcookeme too19:10
willcookeship it19:10
seb128feels much better19:10
seb128going to have a look to that before uif19:10
willcooke:) thx19:10
tjaaltonseb128: looks like display scaling not working might be an xserver 1.18 thing, need to double check that :/19:10
seb128tjaalton, urg, good that you catched it then!19:11
seb128caught even19:11
tjaaltonthat might actually also be why nvidia prime fails19:11
tjaaltonif something broke in randr19:11
tjaaltondoes gnome have a similar scaling thingy?19:12
tjaaltongsettings should work19:13
tjaaltonI'll test that too..19:13
seb128you can also GDK_SCALE=2 gedit19:14
tjaaltonhaha, ouch19:14
tjaaltongood to know :)19:14
tjaaltonthat seems to work with 1.1819:14
seb128the unity scaling is not relying on gtk19:15
seb128well at least the unity custom elements19:15
seb128like panel, indicator, etc have some gtk19:15
seb128Trevinho might know better if you need specific/that's something you try to debug19:15
tjaaltonok I'll ask tomorrow19:16
willcookeseb128, @ alternative tool bar - looks a bit odd when playing a track with a long title: http://i.imgur.com/iW9jKc4.png19:17
seb128Sweet5hark, libreoffice bug #958345 is not fixed, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.xenial/rdepends/ttf-indic-fonts/ttf-indic-fonts-core19:17
ubot5bug 958345 in ttf-indic-fonts (Ubuntu) "ttf-indic-fonts packages are outdated should be removed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95834519:17
seb128Sweet5hark, e.G libreoffice-l10n-bn recommends ttf-bengali-fonts which is a binary from ttf-indic-fonts19:18
seb128willcooke, right, should probably ellipsize19:18
willcookeseb128, also, I miss the "View All" button from the normal toolbar19:19
willcookeso if I drill down in to an artist, then I have to scroll back to the top click click on all again19:19
seb128willcooke, ctrl-t?19:20
willcookeif we do change, I'd vote for that to be on by default (if poss)19:23
seb128it's not?19:24
seb128I need to try on a fresh install19:24
seb128anyway, that's for another day19:25
seb128going to have a look in the fridge and think about dinner ;-)19:25
willcookecheers seb12819:25
Sweet5harkseb128: k, will fix that tomorrow.19:46
willcookeurgh bluetooth device window is uuuuugly20:06
cyphermoxwillcooke: on the phone?20:13
willcookecyphermox, nah, u7 desktop20:13
willcookewhen you add a device20:13
cyphermoxah, yeah, I suppose20:13
willcookeno padding around anything by the looks of things20:13
cyphermoxwillcooke: as in the wizard?20:13
cyphermoxwe get all that straight from gnome, in any case.20:14
willcookeBluetooth settings -> Click the + bottom left -> my eyes my eyes20:14
willcookeIn other news: John McAfee looks like he sleeps in his car.  http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2?IR=T20:15
willcookevia Trevinho20:16
cyphermoxwillcooke: oh, the wizard steps are messed up20:16
cyphermoxwillcooke: that applies to the wizard for mobile data connections in nm-connection-editor too20:17
cyphermoxthis is fun, is that theming or straight gtk?20:17
willcookeoh yeah20:18
willcookedunno, could just be themeing20:18
willcookeI'll ask Seb tomorrow20:18
davmor2willcooke: hmmm so the new bar for gnome is the thing that causes the ugly corners right?  I see them on the calendar app :(20:20
willcookedavmor2, ugly corners are client side decorations issues.  We have a fix in progress right now20:20
willcookeoh, well, actually, looking at my test machine, it might be fixed20:21
davmor2willcooke: I just full-upgraded it isn't here on gedit/calendar but I still need to reboot for the new kernel so I assume I'm still running on old stuff20:23
willcookedavmor2, ah yeah, you're right20:24
willcookeI'm looking at older apps20:24
=== doko_ is now known as doko
willcookenight all20:57

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