tsimonq2wxl: I'm running the Lubuntu Alternate test cases now then afterwards I'll confirm bugs for Beta 1 next week, besides the bugs, do you need anything checked? A specific bug I won't find on the release notes or the tracker?02:39
Afdal_So...  Has anyone considered making a right-click -> XDG applications menu through Openbox a default configuration with Lubuntu?05:07
Afdal_The only extra thing needed is openbox-xdgmenu in order to generate the applications list on the fly as a pipe menu05:08
ianorlinAfdal_: it is quite easy to get press desktop prefences and advanced after installing that maybe?05:08
Afdal_Eh...  It's a little tricker to setup than that05:09
ianorlinmight have to change menu in openbox config ?05:09
ianorlinor what the menu opened?05:09
Afdal_You have to edit the openbox menu.xml and add a line for a pipe menu defined by "openbox-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/lxde-applications.menu"05:10
Afdal_This works really nice once done :)05:10
ianorlinmight need to be added in lubuntu-default settings05:10
ianorlinah that hopefully won't increase iso size05:11
Afdal_the extra component needed is the openbox-xdgmenu package, but it's really small05:11
ianorlin!info openbox-xdgmenu05:12
ubot93Package openbox-xdgmenu does not exist in xenial05:12
ianorlin!info openbox-xdgmenu trusty05:12
ubot93openbox-xdgmenu (source: openbox-xdgmenu): Xdg menu for OpenBox. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3-0ubuntu2 (trusty), package size 6 kB, installed size 60 kB05:12
Afdal_oh yeah lol05:12
Afdal_6 KB :)05:12
ianorlinbut not in xenial :(05:12
Afdal_Well, just a suggestion05:13
Afdal_I think this would be a great addition to put Lubuntu closer to parity with Xubuntu05:14
Afdal_I guess a consideration might be whether or not such a script being run every time the right-click menu is generated significantly impacts battery life or not05:15
Afdal_since that is a focus of Lubuntu and all :)05:15
ianorlinI don't think that much battery would drain05:15
ianorlinfrom that05:16
ianorlinnot compared to a ads on webbrowser05:16
Afdal_Really if nothing else I think the default Openbox menu.xml could use some extra love05:16
Afdal_It's a little too... basic05:16
ianorlinyeah I know I fixed a bug in an icon was not appearing05:17
ianorlin!info lubuntu-defualt-settings05:17
ubot93Package lubuntu-defualt-settings does not exist in xenial05:17
ianorlin!info lubuntu-default-settings05:17
ubot93lubuntu-default-settings (source: lubuntu-default-settings): default settings for Lubuntu. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.44 (xenial), package size 19 kB, installed size 152 kB05:17
ianorlinthat is the package for this sort of thing sometimes it can be a simple fix05:17
Afdal_One other thing I've been interested in but I don't know myself is whether or not you can pipe PCManFM commands into Openbox menus05:18
Afdal_Because if that is possible you could conceivably replace the PCManFM right-click desktop menu entirely with Openbox05:18
ianorlinlike a random wallpaper button on the menu05:19
Afdal_and the basic folder options05:19
Afdal_organize icons05:19
ianorlinI am not sure how to do the organize icons05:19
Afdal_"Sort files"05:19
Afdal_"Select All"05:19
Afdal_if there was a way to pipe those into Openbox you could recreate the whole thing with an Openbox menu...  And add more functionality too :)05:20
ianorlineasiest way is to have pcmanfm --desktop-pref in the menu05:21
ianorlinwhich opens the normal right click menu05:21
ianorlinI can see you to set a wallpaper with the menu with the pcmanfm -w option05:21
ianorlinmight need something to choose the file not sure how to do that off the top of my head05:22
Afdal_--desktop-pref is supposed to open the normal right click menu?05:23
Afdal_I just starts up the Desktop Preferences gui for me05:23
ianorlinoops I don't use any of the other right click options ever sorry05:23
ianorlinwell you could maybe use commands in the openbox menu to edit the config file for ~/.config/pcmanfm/lubuntu and set that using the menu but that is not as trivial05:27
ianorlinAfdal_: are you opening the file in vim05:28
Afdal_What's vim :)?05:28
Afdal_and what file05:29
ianorlinvim is a text editor05:29
Afdal_oh I'm just using leafpad05:29
Afdal_to check out my .xmls05:29
ianorlinyour home folder .config/pcmanfm/lubuntu05:29
ianorlinvim is a bit hard to learn05:29
ianorlinthat ends up being the config file05:30
Afdal_I don't see any settings for icon alignment in this05:30
Afdal_which is what you'll need to get at to replicate the "sort by" functionality05:31
ianorlinthere is a line called sort=05:31
Afdal_oh aha05:32
Afdal_What is "Invert Selection" even supposed to do on the PCManFM desktop?05:34
Afdal_I never use that thingy05:34
ianorlinleafpad is not really the best for editing xml though as it is hard to tell if you close all of the tags and stuff but it can do for like copying an irc channel05:34
ianorlininvert selection means select everything but what you have selected05:34
Afdal_oh right05:34
Afdal_that actually doesn't seem to even work properly on the desktop05:35
Afdal_on 14.04 anyway05:35
Afdal_yeah nope05:35
Afdal_So there's one command that doesn't need to be replicated05:35
Afdal_unless you want it to work properly :)05:35
Afdal_unlike within a folder, if you click outside an icon on the desktop it just unhighlights everything05:36
Afdal_rendering the command moot05:36
Afdal_or if you try to ctrl-click it doesn't work anyway05:36
Afdal_So what about replicating the Create New menu :o05:37
ianorlinAfdal_: that seems to be a pcmanfm bug05:38
ianorlinwith invert selection05:39
Afdal_need to add a refresh contents command after editing the .conf file for that hacky solution to work05:41
Afdal_is there a command like that for pcmanfm05:42
ianorlinI see a command to turn desktop manage mant off and on again which is basically a restart in the man page for pcmanfm05:45
ianorlinwhich a lot of the things I have talked about can be found by opening a terminal and running in man pcmanfm05:45
Afdal_yeah I've been going through that too05:45
Afdal_That could work I guess05:45
Afdal_--desktop-off and then --desktop05:45
ianorlinnormaly it uses --profile --lubuntu when you start it with desktop for the default profile05:46
Afdal_--desktop-off and then --desktop  does work actually05:48
Afdal_it flickers my Xubuntu wallpaper for some reason05:49
ianorlinyeah well profile will tell it to load the correct profile05:49
Afdal_the login manager wallpaper, rather*05:49
ianorlinAfdal_: I would add --profile lubuntu as that would tell it to load the file05:50
Afdal_if you just run the command "pcmanfm --profile=lubuntu" it'll open up a new windowed instance of PCManFM05:50
Afdal_rather than refresh the desktop05:50
ianorlinno I mean pcmanfm --desktop --profile lubuntu to turn it back on again05:51
Afdal_doesn't seem like there's any need for the --profile=lubuntu bit05:53
Afdal_you still have to run pcmanfam --desktop-off first05:53
Afdal_and then --desktop again to restart it05:53
ianorlin yep05:53
Afdal_hmmph, and I can't seem to get that to work anyway :(05:54
Afdal_executing "pcmanfm --desktop-off; pcmanfm --desktop" from an openbox menu item05:55
ianorlinAfdal_: you do have the link to the openbox wiki right05:55
Afdal_if I run that command in terminal it does the trick05:56
Afdal_but it doesn't seem to work in menu for some reason05:56
Afdal_oh I'm doing something wrong here05:56
Afdal_pcmanfm --desktop-off doesn't even work on its own05:57
Afdal_no wait forget that, yes it does05:57
Afdal_I just can't seem to run the two commands one after another05:57
Afdal_Maybe openbox just doesn't let you execute two commands like that05:59
Afdal_would be a shame if so05:59
Afdal_well conceivably you could get around that limitation by piping in a set of instructions from a script I guess06:00
Afdal_that's getting extra hacky though06:00
ianorlinAfdal_: you need to run openbox --reconfigure06:02
Afdal_to refresh the desktop?06:03
ianorlinno to get openbox to open the new config and menu06:03
Afdal_oh yeah I was forgetting to do that earlier :306:03
Afdal_but what I said up above still holds06:03
Afdal_can't seem to get it to run one command after another from a single menu item06:04
ianorlinas otherwise it has the old config in ram which makes the window manager faster06:04
Afdal_aha bingo :)  http://www.jasoncavett.com/blog/multiple-commands-in-openbox-menu/06:09
phillwAfdal_: may I ask a favour?06:10
phillwokay, well let me know when you decide that I may ask :)06:11
Afdal_go ahead :)06:11
phillwAfdal_: would you write up what you have done and what you needed to do? That way, others who follow in your footsteps do not have to start from base camp :)06:12
Afdal_which parts06:12
phillwAfdal_: a story starts at the beginning....06:13
Afdal_yeah I can do that06:13
Afdal_want me to just pastebin it or whatever06:13
Afdal_the big thing is adding an XDG applications menu to the Openbox menu options06:14
Afdal_which is actually not too complicated06:14
phillwdo not worry about syntax, spelling etc... write it up and either pastebin it, or send it to me .... phillw@phillw,net06:14
Afdal_Now I'm trying to replicate all of PCManFM's functionality on the desktop06:14
phillwdamn that comma!!!!06:14
Afdal_you could even add this as an option in Desktop Preferences if you wanted to keep it optional06:15
Afdal_just change the write to openbox's menu.xml06:16
phillwAfdal_: please write it up. lubuntu  does listen to people :)06:16
Afdal_Sure thing06:17
Afdal_I'll organize this stuff more later and send it to you06:17
phillwAfdal_: thanks.06:20
Afdal_there is a slight problem with generating xdg applications from a menu though06:22
Afdal_I'm not sure if you can set menu item icons with it06:22
Afdal_still better than nothing though06:22
Afdal_generating it from a pipe menu, I mean06:23
ianorlinAfdal_: you would have to create the .desktop file06:23
Afdal_see normally if you just set static entries you can designate an icon for each one in openbox06:23
Afdal_This all comes down to openbox-xdgmenu's behavior in generating it06:24
ianorlinAfdal_: you could make a menu item that sets it back to normal mode and then a keybding to get the openbox menu back I am pretty sure06:24
Afdal_I bet this functionality could be added to it pretty easily06:24
Afdal_add to openbox-xdgmenu, I mean06:26
Afdal_I'm no expert programmer but this might even be something I could do :o06:26
ianorlinAfdal_: we all have to start somewhere06:26
Afdal_Well I know how to program, just mostly basic OOP stuff ;)06:28
ianorlinAfdal_: you might be more help to LXQt and stuff for 16.10 as that is C++06:28
ianorlinAfdal_: next release is 16.04 about to enter beta so mainly bug fixes06:48
Afdalmeaning what06:51
Afdalshould I hop on this if I want a chance at it getting into the LTS?06:51
Afdalwould be a pretty nice feature to include in the next LTS ;)06:52
ianorlinmaybe and even then it might need a little bit of tweaking but I do see it as an improvement yes06:53
ianorlinwxl would know more about getting stuff in than me06:59
phillwAfdal freeze for 16.04 has just passed. Feature requests will now queue up for 16.1007:08
Afdaltoo bad :o07:33
ianorlin!info libfm07:41
ubot93Package libfm does not exist in xenial07:41
ianorlin!info libfm07:43
ubot93Package libfm does not exist in xenial07:43
ianorlin!info libfm407:43
ubot93libfm4 (source: libfm): file management support (core library). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.3-1ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 116 kB, installed size 381 kB07:43
ianorlinwxl: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfm/+bug/1363555  this seems to ask to merge an older version than currently in repos and this was for a feature freze exception for utopic so should this be marked as invalid07:46
ubot93Launchpad bug 1363555 in libfm (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Merge libfm from debian" [Undecided,New]07:46
LStrangerGood morning.09:48
LStrangerRead your conversation... I thought about adding a line into PCManFM desktop menu which brings WM desktop menu. And I have that in the TODO for 1.3. :)09:50
LStrangerWill push libfm 1.2.4-1 into sid in a moment.10:34
LStrangeruploaded both libfm and pcmanfm11:03
* LStranger uploaded all updated packages to sid... will appear there shortly (some already)...15:18
LStrangernow it's your turn to update them for LTS :)15:18
LStrangerI wonder if anyone looks at LP bugtracker at all... There are a lot of bugs for PCManFM which deserve to be forwarded to the upstream bugtracker.16:42
LStrangerIf I saw them earlier then surely some of them would be fixed prior I released the 1.2.4 yesterday.16:43
LStrangerAs a DM I definitely look into Debian BTS but those who are in charge of Lubuntu should do something with those bugs and users I believe. :)16:45
LStrangerI'm sorry if that looks like I wanted to offend someone, I just want users get better experience so make SW bug-free.16:46
LStrangerBTW, LP doesn't allow to add a link to the pcmanfm bugtracker @SF.17:26
wxlLStranger: yep, known bug. switch to github. problem solved :)17:26
LStrangerit says: Launchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL.17:26
LStrangerhehe :)17:27
LStrangerdrop all existing bugs isn't an option, I'm sorry17:27
wxli know i know :)17:27
wxlthat's actually a long running bug in launchpad17:27
wxlthere's a bug report laying around somewhere if you wanted to confirm it but it seems everyone knows17:28
LStrangerespecially since github is not a tracker but rather whiteboard with all that poor functionality17:28
wxland very very very few projects use sourceforge17:28
wxlso it's on the wishlist as far as i can tell17:28
LStrangerunfortunately our attempt to create own tracker died as nobody was interested except me17:29
wxlon some known system or something you set up yourself?17:29
LStrangerthe idea was to setup own17:30
wxlyeah that might have been the reason17:30
LStrangerI even volunteered to make some import script to pull data from SF17:31
LStrangerbut still nobody interested17:31
=== MrBIOS_ is now known as MrBIOS
=== meetingology` is now known as meetingology
ianorlinYeah I know it is hard to find where one is and I don't think I have a sourceforge as well18:12
ianorlinLStranger: I think you should say active projects but I don't really have an option for sourceforge18:13
LStrangerianorlin: well, in historic reasons all LXDE trackers are at SF, and just ignore all those tickets there isn't an option.18:16
LStrangerif you start to ignore users then users start to ignore you.18:16
ianorlinI understand18:18
LStrangerso only option would be to import/export all the tickets but I see no possibility to do that for any "free" site.18:18
ianorlinmanually would take a while but might be possible but not really quite sure how to get replies18:26
LStrangerWell, tickets and comments could be copied but in case of github all of them will be from a single user (who initiated that adding), I see no reason for that anyway, users will never get any feedback as they will be never mentioned at all.18:29
LStrangerTherefore any migration attempt is pointless, it's the same as just abandon tracker and reporters.18:30
LStrangerSo tracker migration is a great headache, it's why it's still @ SF.18:32
ianorlinLStranger: I think I found the problem with bug 1344817 is that the default settings for lubuntu seem to using %s19:00
ubot93bug 1344817 in pcmanfm (Ubuntu) "Console applications in the menu do not open correctly" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134481719:00
LStrangerNo, %s should be not a problem, the issue was lxterminal not always accepted command correctly19:09
LStrangerThe developer worked with that issue, I hope it is fixed now.19:10
ianorlinshould I try again with libfm 1.2.4 when it comes?19:12
LStrangersure, why not19:32
LStrangeralthough if you telling about 1344817 then it is really about lxterminal, and nothing was changed in terminal support between 1.2.3 and 1.2.419:36
Afdal<LStranger> Read your conversation... I thought about adding a line into PCManFM desktop menu which brings WM desktop menu. And I have that in the TODO for 1.3. :)19:48
Afdalhow might that work19:49
Afdalconcatenating a PCManFM menu with Openbox components?19:49
Afdalor piping in an Openbox menu which itself pipes in some PCManFM commands?19:49
Afdal(particularly "Sort by...")19:50
LStrangerWell, not concatenate, but you just can press 'Open WM menu' and your pcmanfm menu will be replaced with openbox one.19:50
ianorlinLStranger: Afdal was talking about putting the pcmanfm commands in the openbox menu19:51
Afdalso you right-click to get the PCManFM menu and then there's an item which says "Open WM menu" and you click that and it does what?19:51
Afdalit opens another submenu which is the Openbox menu?19:51
Afdalyeah that's what I think would work best19:51
AfdalI dunno if you can pipe in the PCManFM commands or not though19:52
LStrangeryep, exactly what I planned to make in 1.319:52
AfdalI guess that would work19:52
Afdalif you could replace it all with a single Openbox menu it would be a bit more elegant though :)19:52
LStrangeralthough I will not work on 1.3 until I make lxpanel 1.0 which requires a lot of work yet19:53
LStrangerI want lxpanel to be so much powerful as kicker once was19:53
Afdalhey speakign of lxpanel19:53
AfdalI read about some nice weather plugin for it that was developed a while back19:53
AfdalAnyone know what I'm talking about?  What ever happened to that?19:53
ianorlinAfdal: I think it is only in newer versions of lubuntu19:54
phillwAfdalit is alive and well in 16.04 :)19:54
Afdaloh nice :319:54
LStrangeryeah, one nice Polish guy made it long time ago19:54
Afdalif you're looking for new panel ideas there's this snazzy thing xfce-panel has that lets you add a titlebar and buttons for the current window:  http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-windowck-plugin19:56
Afdalyou could combine that with Openbox's easy method of remove titlebars when maximized19:57
Afdalor maybe there isn't such an easy method19:58
ianorlinAfdal: that might need to be merged to opebox as openbox draws the titlebars19:58
Afdalthought it was an option in obconf19:58
Afdalguess not19:58
ianorlinAfdal: obconf is a gui frontend for the openbox config file19:59
Afdalif it's an option you'll have to drudge through the .xml -_-19:59
ianorlinI mean I don't think it is an option in the xml19:59
ianorlinalso you can't have window buttons on both sides with openbox20:00
ianorlineven with the xml20:00
Afdalanyway...  So do you know a lot about pcmanfm LStranger?20:01
AfdalDo you have any idea how one might pipe internal commands from it to something else?20:01
Afdalif such a thing is possible20:01
ianorlinI wonder if what Afdal wants to do would be easier with a command line front end to the library for libfm20:01
LStrangerAfdal, it's me who write it last years :D20:02
Afdalfactorization machine library eh20:03
LStrangerand since 2014 I work on lxpanel as well, I've improved a lot in it, and will continue.20:04
Afdalthanks for your hard work :)20:04
Afdaldoes libfm actually have anything explicitly to do with file management20:05
AfdalI'm looking at the right thing here right?  http://www.libfm.org/20:05
Afdal"The alternating least-squares (ALS) optimization for regression task..."20:05
LStrangerand speaking about pcmanfm it has no 'commands' as such, it's file manager after all and it works with files.20:05
AfdalThis sounds like a statistical functions library20:05
Afdalsorry, meant function :)20:06
Afdalwhatever runs when you right click and select Sort By -> Name for instance20:06
LStrangerlibfm is core of pcmanfm, the pcmanfm itself is just a tabbed container for libfm widgets, configuration window, and a desktop manager.20:07
LStrangereverything what is done by pcmanfm in its window is actually done by libfm.20:08
LStrangeras well as most of functions on the desktop20:08
AfdalI see :o20:10
LStrangerand lxpanel since 0.7.0 for all file operations also uses libfm (that includes applications buttons, of course, so now you can have folders and documents on launch, not just applications)20:11
Afdalcan you run libfm processes independently or do they have to be integrated in something?20:11
LStrangerlibfm is a library, it is not a process20:12
AfdalI mean20:12
LStrangereach process just uses library20:12
Afdalcode within the library :)20:12
Afdalam I being a dingus20:12
LStrangerfrom any application you can use libfm functions if you meant that20:13
Afdalso could I pipe them to an Openbox menu for instance :3?20:14
Afdaloh :(20:14
LStrangerlibfm is not an application as I said20:14
LStrangerso you cannot start it20:14
Afdalyeah okay I get it now20:15
LStrangeryou can start an application, not a library20:15
AfdalSo someone would need to write a little program from it20:15
Afdalin order to call up some actions from a menu20:15
AfdalWhat are most things in lxde written in20:15
LStrangercore components are file/desktop manager and panel, all other are small utilities20:16
AfdalI mean the language20:16
LStrangerall is written in C except for lxsession - it's mostly in Vala20:17
Unit193Special cookie.20:17
AfdalIf I were to write something simple like I'm proposing...  Is C a hard language to learn if I mostly just have experience with OOP stuff?20:17
AfdalI least I think it's simple20:18
Afdalmaybe it isn't20:18
LStrangerWell, GTK+ is OOP framework written in C.20:19
Afdallxde uses GTK+ dependencies for a lot of things already right20:19
LStrangerAnd everything in LXDE is written using GTK+20:20
Afdaloh :o20:20
Afdalbut you said C earlier @_@20:20
Afdalokay well I bet gtk is easy enough to learn20:21
LStrangerYeah, it's C.20:21
Afdaloh is gtk basically a bunch of C libraries20:21
Afdalwhatever, I think I get it >.>20:22
LStrangerYeah, kind of. It uses OOP paradigm but calls are C type.20:22
LStrangerGood night everyone!20:27
AfdalSo...  Have any of you given thought to expand the default keyboard shortcuts before?22:17
Afdala couple shortcuts I think are super useful that aren't set at all are AddDesktop and RemoveDesktop22:19
AfdalYou can add or remove the last workspace in your list with those22:19
Afdalgreat for only adding workspaces as you need them22:20
AfdalI map mine to Alt+Insert/Delete since that's what Xfce uses by default for the same function22:20
Afdalpretty handy ;322:21

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