[02:39] <tsimonq2> wxl: I'm running the Lubuntu Alternate test cases now then afterwards I'll confirm bugs for Beta 1 next week, besides the bugs, do you need anything checked? A specific bug I won't find on the release notes or the tracker?
[05:07] <Afdal_> So...  Has anyone considered making a right-click -> XDG applications menu through Openbox a default configuration with Lubuntu?
[05:08] <Afdal_> The only extra thing needed is openbox-xdgmenu in order to generate the applications list on the fly as a pipe menu
[05:08] <ianorlin> Afdal_: it is quite easy to get press desktop prefences and advanced after installing that maybe?
[05:09] <Afdal_> Eh...  It's a little tricker to setup than that
[05:09] <ianorlin> might have to change menu in openbox config ?
[05:09] <ianorlin> or what the menu opened?
[05:10] <Afdal_> You have to edit the openbox menu.xml and add a line for a pipe menu defined by "openbox-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/lxde-applications.menu"
[05:10] <Afdal_> This works really nice once done :)
[05:10] <ianorlin> might need to be added in lubuntu-default settings
[05:11] <ianorlin> ah that hopefully won't increase iso size
[05:11] <Afdal_> the extra component needed is the openbox-xdgmenu package, but it's really small
[05:12] <ianorlin> !info openbox-xdgmenu
[05:12] <ianorlin> !info openbox-xdgmenu trusty
[05:12] <Afdal_> D:>
[05:12] <Afdal_> oh yeah lol
[05:12] <Afdal_> 6 KB :)
[05:12] <ianorlin> but not in xenial :(
[05:13] <Afdal_> :(
[05:13] <Afdal_> Well, just a suggestion
[05:14] <Afdal_> I think this would be a great addition to put Lubuntu closer to parity with Xubuntu
[05:15] <Afdal_> I guess a consideration might be whether or not such a script being run every time the right-click menu is generated significantly impacts battery life or not
[05:15] <Afdal_> since that is a focus of Lubuntu and all :)
[05:15] <ianorlin> I don't think that much battery would drain
[05:16] <ianorlin> from that
[05:16] <ianorlin> not compared to a ads on webbrowser
[05:16] <Afdal_> Really if nothing else I think the default Openbox menu.xml could use some extra love
[05:16] <Afdal_> It's a little too... basic
[05:17] <ianorlin> yeah I know I fixed a bug in an icon was not appearing
[05:17] <ianorlin> !info lubuntu-defualt-settings
[05:17] <ianorlin> !info lubuntu-default-settings
[05:17] <ianorlin> that is the package for this sort of thing sometimes it can be a simple fix
[05:18] <Afdal_> One other thing I've been interested in but I don't know myself is whether or not you can pipe PCManFM commands into Openbox menus
[05:18] <Afdal_> Because if that is possible you could conceivably replace the PCManFM right-click desktop menu entirely with Openbox
[05:19] <ianorlin> like a random wallpaper button on the menu
[05:19] <Afdal_> and the basic folder options
[05:19] <Afdal_> organize icons
[05:19] <Afdal_> etc
[05:19] <ianorlin> I am not sure how to do the organize icons
[05:19] <Afdal_> err
[05:19] <Afdal_> "Sort files"
[05:19] <Afdal_> "Select All"
[05:20] <Afdal_> etc
[05:20] <Afdal_> if there was a way to pipe those into Openbox you could recreate the whole thing with an Openbox menu...  And add more functionality too :)
[05:21] <ianorlin> easiest way is to have pcmanfm --desktop-pref in the menu
[05:21] <ianorlin> which opens the normal right click menu
[05:21] <ianorlin> I can see you to set a wallpaper with the menu with the pcmanfm -w option
[05:22] <ianorlin> might need something to choose the file not sure how to do that off the top of my head
[05:23] <Afdal_> --desktop-pref is supposed to open the normal right click menu?
[05:23] <Afdal_> I just starts up the Desktop Preferences gui for me
[05:23] <ianorlin> oops I don't use any of the other right click options ever sorry
[05:27] <ianorlin> well you could maybe use commands in the openbox menu to edit the config file for ~/.config/pcmanfm/lubuntu and set that using the menu but that is not as trivial
[05:28] <Afdal_> :o
[05:28] <ianorlin> Afdal_: are you opening the file in vim
[05:28] <Afdal_> What's vim :)?
[05:29] <Afdal_> and what file
[05:29] <ianorlin> vim is a text editor
[05:29] <Afdal_> oh I'm just using leafpad
[05:29] <Afdal_> to check out my .xmls
[05:29] <ianorlin> your home folder .config/pcmanfm/lubuntu
[05:29] <ianorlin> vim is a bit hard to learn
[05:30] <Afdal_> desktop-items-0.conf?
[05:30] <ianorlin> yes
[05:30] <ianorlin> that ends up being the config file
[05:30] <Afdal_> I don't see any settings for icon alignment in this
[05:31] <Afdal_> which is what you'll need to get at to replicate the "sort by" functionality
[05:31] <ianorlin> there is a line called sort=
[05:32] <Afdal_> oh aha
[05:34] <Afdal_> What is "Invert Selection" even supposed to do on the PCManFM desktop?
[05:34] <Afdal_> I never use that thingy
[05:34] <ianorlin> leafpad is not really the best for editing xml though as it is hard to tell if you close all of the tags and stuff but it can do for like copying an irc channel
[05:34] <ianorlin> invert selection means select everything but what you have selected
[05:34] <Afdal_> oh right
[05:35] <Afdal_> that actually doesn't seem to even work properly on the desktop
[05:35] <Afdal_> on 14.04 anyway
[05:35] <Afdal_> yeah nope
[05:35] <Afdal_> So there's one command that doesn't need to be replicated
[05:35] <Afdal_> unless you want it to work properly :)
[05:36] <Afdal_> unlike within a folder, if you click outside an icon on the desktop it just unhighlights everything
[05:36] <Afdal_> rendering the command moot
[05:36] <Afdal_> or if you try to ctrl-click it doesn't work anyway
[05:37] <Afdal_> So what about replicating the Create New menu :o
[05:38] <ianorlin> Afdal_: that seems to be a pcmanfm bug
[05:39] <ianorlin> with invert selection
[05:39] <Afdal_> ah
[05:41] <Afdal_> need to add a refresh contents command after editing the .conf file for that hacky solution to work
[05:42] <Afdal_> is there a command like that for pcmanfm
[05:45] <ianorlin> I see a command to turn desktop manage mant off and on again which is basically a restart in the man page for pcmanfm
[05:45] <ianorlin> which a lot of the things I have talked about can be found by opening a terminal and running in man pcmanfm
[05:45] <Afdal_> yeah I've been going through that too
[05:45] <Afdal_> That could work I guess
[05:45] <Afdal_> --desktop-off and then --desktop
[05:45] <Afdal_> ?
[05:46] <ianorlin> normaly it uses --profile --lubuntu when you start it with desktop for the default profile
[05:48] <Afdal_> --desktop-off and then --desktop  does work actually
[05:49] <Afdal_> sorta
[05:49] <Afdal_> it flickers my Xubuntu wallpaper for some reason
[05:49] <ianorlin> yeah well profile will tell it to load the correct profile
[05:49] <Afdal_> the login manager wallpaper, rather*
[05:50] <ianorlin> Afdal_: I would add --profile lubuntu as that would tell it to load the file
[05:50] <Afdal_> if you just run the command "pcmanfm --profile=lubuntu" it'll open up a new windowed instance of PCManFM
[05:50] <Afdal_> rather than refresh the desktop
[05:51] <ianorlin> no I mean pcmanfm --desktop --profile lubuntu to turn it back on again
[05:53] <Afdal_> doesn't seem like there's any need for the --profile=lubuntu bit
[05:53] <Afdal_> you still have to run pcmanfam --desktop-off first
[05:53] <Afdal_> and then --desktop again to restart it
[05:53] <ianorlin>  yep
[05:54] <Afdal_> hmmph, and I can't seem to get that to work anyway :(
[05:55] <Afdal_> executing "pcmanfm --desktop-off; pcmanfm --desktop" from an openbox menu item
[05:55] <ianorlin> Afdal_: you do have the link to the openbox wiki right
[05:55] <Afdal_> yep
[05:56] <Afdal_> if I run that command in terminal it does the trick
[05:56] <Afdal_> but it doesn't seem to work in menu for some reason
[05:56] <Afdal_> oh I'm doing something wrong here
[05:57] <Afdal_> pcmanfm --desktop-off doesn't even work on its own
[05:57] <Afdal_> no wait forget that, yes it does
[05:57] <Afdal_> I just can't seem to run the two commands one after another
[05:59] <Afdal_> Maybe openbox just doesn't let you execute two commands like that
[05:59] <Afdal_> would be a shame if so
[06:00] <Afdal_> well conceivably you could get around that limitation by piping in a set of instructions from a script I guess
[06:00] <Afdal_> that's getting extra hacky though
[06:02] <ianorlin> Afdal_: you need to run openbox --reconfigure
[06:03] <Afdal_> to refresh the desktop?
[06:03] <ianorlin> no to get openbox to open the new config and menu
[06:03] <Afdal_> oh yeah I was forgetting to do that earlier :3
[06:03] <Afdal_> but what I said up above still holds
[06:04] <Afdal_> can't seem to get it to run one command after another from a single menu item
[06:04] <ianorlin> as otherwise it has the old config in ram which makes the window manager faster
[06:09] <Afdal_> aha bingo :)  http://www.jasoncavett.com/blog/multiple-commands-in-openbox-menu/
[06:10] <phillw> Afdal_: may I ask a favour?
[06:10] <Afdal_> Maybe...
[06:11] <phillw> okay, well let me know when you decide that I may ask :)
[06:11] <Afdal_> go ahead :)
[06:12] <phillw> Afdal_: would you write up what you have done and what you needed to do? That way, others who follow in your footsteps do not have to start from base camp :)
[06:12] <Afdal_> heh
[06:12] <Afdal_> which parts
[06:13] <phillw> Afdal_: a story starts at the beginning....
[06:13] <Afdal_> yeah I can do that
[06:13] <Afdal_> want me to just pastebin it or whatever
[06:14] <Afdal_> the big thing is adding an XDG applications menu to the Openbox menu options
[06:14] <Afdal_> which is actually not too complicated
[06:14] <phillw> do not worry about syntax, spelling etc... write it up and either pastebin it, or send it to me .... phillw@phillw,net
[06:14] <phillw> phillw@phillw.net
[06:14] <Afdal_> Now I'm trying to replicate all of PCManFM's functionality on the desktop
[06:14] <phillw> damn that comma!!!!
[06:15] <Afdal_> you could even add this as an option in Desktop Preferences if you wanted to keep it optional
[06:16] <Afdal_> just change the write to openbox's menu.xml
[06:16] <phillw> Afdal_: please write it up. lubuntu  does listen to people :)
[06:17] <Afdal_> :3
[06:17] <Afdal_> Sure thing
[06:17] <Afdal_> I'll organize this stuff more later and send it to you
[06:20] <phillw> Afdal_: thanks.
[06:22] <Afdal_> there is a slight problem with generating xdg applications from a menu though
[06:22] <Afdal_> I'm not sure if you can set menu item icons with it
[06:22] <Afdal_> still better than nothing though
[06:23] <Afdal_> generating it from a pipe menu, I mean
[06:23] <ianorlin> Afdal_: you would have to create the .desktop file
[06:23] <Afdal_> see normally if you just set static entries you can designate an icon for each one in openbox
[06:24] <Afdal_> This all comes down to openbox-xdgmenu's behavior in generating it
[06:24] <ianorlin> Afdal_: you could make a menu item that sets it back to normal mode and then a keybding to get the openbox menu back I am pretty sure
[06:24] <Afdal_> I bet this functionality could be added to it pretty easily
[06:26] <Afdal_> add to openbox-xdgmenu, I mean
[06:26] <Afdal_> I'm no expert programmer but this might even be something I could do :o
[06:26] <ianorlin> Afdal_: we all have to start somewhere
[06:28] <Afdal_> Well I know how to program, just mostly basic OOP stuff ;)
[06:28] <ianorlin> Afdal_: you might be more help to LXQt and stuff for 16.10 as that is C++
[06:48] <ianorlin> Afdal_: next release is 16.04 about to enter beta so mainly bug fixes
[06:51] <Afdal> meaning what
[06:51] <Afdal> should I hop on this if I want a chance at it getting into the LTS?
[06:52] <Afdal> would be a pretty nice feature to include in the next LTS ;)
[06:53] <ianorlin> maybe and even then it might need a little bit of tweaking but I do see it as an improvement yes
[06:59] <ianorlin> wxl would know more about getting stuff in than me
[07:08] <phillw> Afdal freeze for 16.04 has just passed. Feature requests will now queue up for 16.10
[07:33] <Afdal> too bad :o
[07:41] <ianorlin> !info libfm
[07:43] <ianorlin> !info libfm
[07:43] <ianorlin> !info libfm4
[07:46] <ianorlin> wxl: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfm/+bug/1363555  this seems to ask to merge an older version than currently in repos and this was for a feature freze exception for utopic so should this be marked as invalid
[09:48] <LStranger> Good morning.
[09:50] <LStranger> Read your conversation... I thought about adding a line into PCManFM desktop menu which brings WM desktop menu. And I have that in the TODO for 1.3. :)
[10:34] <LStranger> Will push libfm 1.2.4-1 into sid in a moment.
[11:03] <LStranger> uploaded both libfm and pcmanfm
[15:18]  * LStranger uploaded all updated packages to sid... will appear there shortly (some already)...
[15:18] <LStranger> now it's your turn to update them for LTS :)
[16:42] <LStranger> I wonder if anyone looks at LP bugtracker at all... There are a lot of bugs for PCManFM which deserve to be forwarded to the upstream bugtracker.
[16:43] <LStranger> If I saw them earlier then surely some of them would be fixed prior I released the 1.2.4 yesterday.
[16:45] <LStranger> As a DM I definitely look into Debian BTS but those who are in charge of Lubuntu should do something with those bugs and users I believe. :)
[16:46] <LStranger> I'm sorry if that looks like I wanted to offend someone, I just want users get better experience so make SW bug-free.
[17:26] <LStranger> BTW, LP doesn't allow to add a link to the pcmanfm bugtracker @SF.
[17:26] <wxl> LStranger: yep, known bug. switch to github. problem solved :)
[17:26] <LStranger> it says: Launchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL.
[17:27] <LStranger> hehe :)
[17:27] <LStranger> drop all existing bugs isn't an option, I'm sorry
[17:27] <wxl> i know i know :)
[17:27] <wxl> that's actually a long running bug in launchpad
[17:28] <wxl> there's a bug report laying around somewhere if you wanted to confirm it but it seems everyone knows
[17:28] <LStranger> especially since github is not a tracker but rather whiteboard with all that poor functionality
[17:28] <wxl> and very very very few projects use sourceforge
[17:28] <wxl> so it's on the wishlist as far as i can tell
[17:29] <LStranger> unfortunately our attempt to create own tracker died as nobody was interested except me
[17:29] <wxl> on some known system or something you set up yourself?
[17:30] <LStranger> the idea was to setup own
[17:30] <wxl> yeah that might have been the reason
[17:31] <LStranger> I even volunteered to make some import script to pull data from SF
[17:31] <LStranger> but still nobody interested
[18:12] <ianorlin> Yeah I know it is hard to find where one is and I don't think I have a sourceforge as well
[18:13] <ianorlin> LStranger: I think you should say active projects but I don't really have an option for sourceforge
[18:16] <LStranger> ianorlin: well, in historic reasons all LXDE trackers are at SF, and just ignore all those tickets there isn't an option.
[18:16] <LStranger> if you start to ignore users then users start to ignore you.
[18:18] <ianorlin> I understand
[18:18] <LStranger> so only option would be to import/export all the tickets but I see no possibility to do that for any "free" site.
[18:26] <ianorlin> manually would take a while but might be possible but not really quite sure how to get replies
[18:29] <LStranger> Well, tickets and comments could be copied but in case of github all of them will be from a single user (who initiated that adding), I see no reason for that anyway, users will never get any feedback as they will be never mentioned at all.
[18:30] <LStranger> Therefore any migration attempt is pointless, it's the same as just abandon tracker and reporters.
[18:32] <LStranger> So tracker migration is a great headache, it's why it's still @ SF.
[18:34] <ianorlin> understandable
[19:00] <ianorlin> LStranger: I think I found the problem with bug 1344817 is that the default settings for lubuntu seem to using %s
[19:09] <LStranger> No, %s should be not a problem, the issue was lxterminal not always accepted command correctly
[19:10] <LStranger> The developer worked with that issue, I hope it is fixed now.
[19:12] <ianorlin> should I try again with libfm 1.2.4 when it comes?
[19:32] <LStranger> sure, why not
[19:36] <LStranger> although if you telling about 1344817 then it is really about lxterminal, and nothing was changed in terminal support between 1.2.3 and 1.2.4
 Read your conversation... I thought about adding a line into PCManFM desktop menu which brings WM desktop menu. And I have that in the TODO for 1.3. :)
[19:49] <Afdal> So...
[19:49] <Afdal> how might that work
[19:49] <Afdal> concatenating a PCManFM menu with Openbox components?
[19:49] <Afdal> or piping in an Openbox menu which itself pipes in some PCManFM commands?
[19:50] <Afdal> (particularly "Sort by...")
[19:50] <LStranger> Well, not concatenate, but you just can press 'Open WM menu' and your pcmanfm menu will be replaced with openbox one.
[19:50] <Afdal> I:>
[19:51] <ianorlin> LStranger: Afdal was talking about putting the pcmanfm commands in the openbox menu
[19:51] <Afdal> so you right-click to get the PCManFM menu and then there's an item which says "Open WM menu" and you click that and it does what?
[19:51] <Afdal> it opens another submenu which is the Openbox menu?
[19:51] <Afdal> yeah that's what I think would work best
[19:52] <Afdal> I dunno if you can pipe in the PCManFM commands or not though
[19:52] <LStranger> yep, exactly what I planned to make in 1.3
[19:52] <Afdal> hmm
[19:52] <Afdal> I guess that would work
[19:52] <Afdal> if you could replace it all with a single Openbox menu it would be a bit more elegant though :)
[19:53] <LStranger> although I will not work on 1.3 until I make lxpanel 1.0 which requires a lot of work yet
[19:53] <LStranger> I want lxpanel to be so much powerful as kicker once was
[19:53] <Afdal> hey speakign of lxpanel
[19:53] <Afdal> I read about some nice weather plugin for it that was developed a while back
[19:53] <Afdal> Anyone know what I'm talking about?  What ever happened to that?
[19:54] <ianorlin> Afdal: I think it is only in newer versions of lubuntu
[19:54] <phillw> Afdalit is alive and well in 16.04 :)
[19:54] <Afdal> oh nice :3
[19:54] <LStranger> yeah, one nice Polish guy made it long time ago
[19:56] <Afdal> if you're looking for new panel ideas there's this snazzy thing xfce-panel has that lets you add a titlebar and buttons for the current window:  http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-windowck-plugin
[19:57] <Afdal> you could combine that with Openbox's easy method of remove titlebars when maximized
[19:58] <Afdal> or maybe there isn't such an easy method
[19:58] <ianorlin> Afdal: that might need to be merged to opebox as openbox draws the titlebars
[19:58] <Afdal> thought it was an option in obconf
[19:58] <Afdal> guess not
[19:59] <ianorlin> Afdal: obconf is a gui frontend for the openbox config file
[19:59] <Afdal> yeah
[19:59] <Afdal> if it's an option you'll have to drudge through the .xml -_-
[19:59] <ianorlin> I mean I don't think it is an option in the xml
[20:00] <ianorlin> also you can't have window buttons on both sides with openbox
[20:00] <ianorlin> even with the xml
[20:01] <Afdal> anyway...  So do you know a lot about pcmanfm LStranger?
[20:01] <Afdal> Do you have any idea how one might pipe internal commands from it to something else?
[20:01] <Afdal> if such a thing is possible
[20:01] <ianorlin> I wonder if what Afdal wants to do would be easier with a command line front end to the library for libfm
[20:02] <Afdal> :o
[20:02] <LStranger> Afdal, it's me who write it last years :D
[20:02] <Afdal> :D
[20:03] <Afdal> factorization machine library eh
[20:04] <LStranger> and since 2014 I work on lxpanel as well, I've improved a lot in it, and will continue.
[20:04] <Afdal> thanks for your hard work :)
[20:05] <Afdal> does libfm actually have anything explicitly to do with file management
[20:05] <Afdal> I'm looking at the right thing here right?  http://www.libfm.org/
[20:05] <Afdal> "The alternating least-squares (ALS) optimization for regression task..."
[20:05] <LStranger> and speaking about pcmanfm it has no 'commands' as such, it's file manager after all and it works with files.
[20:05] <Afdal> This sounds like a statistical functions library
[20:06] <Afdal> sorry, meant function :)
[20:06] <Afdal> whatever runs when you right click and select Sort By -> Name for instance
[20:07] <LStranger> libfm is core of pcmanfm, the pcmanfm itself is just a tabbed container for libfm widgets, configuration window, and a desktop manager.
[20:08] <LStranger> everything what is done by pcmanfm in its window is actually done by libfm.
[20:08] <LStranger> as well as most of functions on the desktop
[20:10] <Afdal> I see :o
[20:11] <LStranger> and lxpanel since 0.7.0 for all file operations also uses libfm (that includes applications buttons, of course, so now you can have folders and documents on launch, not just applications)
[20:11] <Afdal> can you run libfm processes independently or do they have to be integrated in something?
[20:12] <LStranger> libfm is a library, it is not a process
[20:12] <Afdal> I mean
[20:12] <LStranger> each process just uses library
[20:12] <Afdal> code within the library :)
[20:12] <Afdal> am I being a dingus
[20:13] <LStranger> from any application you can use libfm functions if you meant that
[20:14] <Afdal> so could I pipe them to an Openbox menu for instance :3?
[20:14] <LStranger> nope
[20:14] <Afdal> oh :(
[20:14] <LStranger> libfm is not an application as I said
[20:14] <LStranger> so you cannot start it
[20:15] <Afdal> yeah okay I get it now
[20:15] <LStranger> you can start an application, not a library
[20:15] <Afdal> So someone would need to write a little program from it
[20:15] <LStranger> yep
[20:15] <Afdal> in order to call up some actions from a menu
[20:15] <Afdal> What are most things in lxde written in
[20:16] <LStranger> core components are file/desktop manager and panel, all other are small utilities
[20:16] <Afdal> I mean the language
[20:16] <LStranger> C
[20:17] <LStranger> all is written in C except for lxsession - it's mostly in Vala
[20:17] <Unit193> Special cookie.
[20:17] <LStranger> :)
[20:17] <Afdal> If I were to write something simple like I'm proposing...  Is C a hard language to learn if I mostly just have experience with OOP stuff?
[20:18] <Afdal> I least I think it's simple
[20:18] <Afdal> maybe it isn't
[20:19] <LStranger> Well, GTK+ is OOP framework written in C.
[20:19] <Afdal> lxde uses GTK+ dependencies for a lot of things already right
[20:20] <LStranger> And everything in LXDE is written using GTK+
[20:20] <Afdal> oh :o
[20:20] <Afdal> but you said C earlier @_@
[20:21] <Afdal> okay well I bet gtk is easy enough to learn
[20:21] <LStranger> Yeah, it's C.
[20:21] <Afdal> oh is gtk basically a bunch of C libraries
[20:22] <Afdal> whatever, I think I get it >.>
[20:22] <LStranger> Yeah, kind of. It uses OOP paradigm but calls are C type.
[20:27] <LStranger> Good night everyone!
[22:17] <Afdal> So...  Have any of you given thought to expand the default keyboard shortcuts before?
[22:19] <Afdal> a couple shortcuts I think are super useful that aren't set at all are AddDesktop and RemoveDesktop
[22:19] <Afdal> You can add or remove the last workspace in your list with those
[22:20] <Afdal> great for only adding workspaces as you need them
[22:20] <Afdal> I map mine to Alt+Insert/Delete since that's what Xfce uses by default for the same function
[22:21] <Afdal> pretty handy ;3