ian-weissertsimonq2: Topic for tonight - too much infrastructure for too few users?01:14
tsimonq2hai :)01:15
tsimonq2ian-weisser: what do you mean?01:15
ian-weisserIs the overhead of all the rarely-used channels (like the blog) worth maintaining?01:16
ian-weisserI know, it's a riff on the LoCo portal rant.01:16
tsimonq2ian-weisser: well I think the blog is needed to communicate to the community at large so I support that staying01:17
tsimonq2ian-weisser: what else do you think should go?01:17
ian-weissertsimonq2: Reverse the question. You do all the work - what do *you* think isn't worthwhile?01:19
tsimonq2oh jeez :D01:19
tsimonq2well since I designed the resources I think they are all needed01:20
tsimonq2but I think the question is, do you, as a LoCo member, have any suggestions?01:20
ian-weisserOf course, but none are worth fighting for. If someone else is doing the work, why should I care?01:21
ian-weisser...but that does lead to lots of effort for little gain.01:22
ian-weisser...lots of *your* effort.01:22
ian-weisserI think it might be nice to see some gain from your effort.01:22
ian-weisserYou deserve it.01:23
tsimonq2give me an example :)01:23
tsimonq2thank you :)01:23
ian-weisserExample: Blog.01:23
tsimonq2what exactly do you think could be gained from the blog?01:23
tsimonq2ian-weisser: and what do you mean by gain?01:24
tsimonq2gain as in the LoCo or the community at large?01:24
tsimonq2ian-weisser: (I guess I'm asking because I'm glad I'm getting more input)01:26
ian-weisser'Gain' in any sense of the purpose of the LoCo. Effective marketing of Ubuntu. Effective counter-FUD, Social events, More contributors to Ubuntu.01:27
tsimonq2ohh I see01:27
ian-weisserElse we're just a rather small clique.01:27
tsimonq2yeah I agree, a team that's just users and doesn't do anything01:28
tsimonq2at times I like to compare us to the California LoCo01:28
tsimonq2as in where we need to go01:28
tsimonq2to be successful01:28
ian-weisserThat's easy - the members will lead in multiple directions. The LoCo is an ubrella that supports and coordinates01:29
tsimonq2I agree but our of the 20 members on Launchpad not many people have stepped up01:29
ian-weisserExample: The LoCo has (effectively) coordinated with MKE LUG for the May/June UpgradeFest01:29
ian-weisserOops. Talking at the same time.01:30
ian-weisserSo...what do we do to get members to step up?01:30
tsimonq2I just think that this was a HUGE problem that caused this LoCo to be inactive for so many years and I think this is our weak spot01:31
tsimonq2I have no clue *yet* to be honest with you01:31
tsimonq2I've been chewing on some ideas01:31
tsimonq2but I've ruled them out01:31
tsimonq2ian-weisser: so do you have any ideas?01:32
tsimonq2and if so I'd like to hear them01:32
* ian-weisser pauses while spouse explains a Simpsons joke01:32
tsimonq2while you are doing that I sohuld fix the topic01:34
ian-weisserNew topic: AAAAHHH! THE ROBOTS!!!! AAAAHHHH!01:34
ian-weisserFreehotdog to everyone who notices.01:35
tsimonq2 Welcome to the Official IRC channel for the Ubuntu US Wisconsin LoCo Team!  | Please mind the guidelines: http://is.gd/r3bNJS | This channel is publicly logged here: http://is.gd/qsmiqS01:35
tsimonq2whoops :)01:35
=== tsimonq2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-wi to:  Welcome to the Official IRC channel for the Ubuntu US Wisconsin LoCo Team!  | Please mind the guidelines: http://is.gd/r3bNJS | This channel is publicly logged here: http://is.gd/qsmiqS
tsimonq2ian-weisser: anyways01:35
* ian-weisser pauses while spouse tells another story01:36
tsimonq2okay :D01:36
* ian-weisser spouse doesn't realie he was having a conversation01:36
* ian-weisser isn;t going to tell her01:36
* ian-weisser is back01:37
ian-weisserThat;s the very problem that befuddled h00k01:37
tsimonq2ian-weisser: anyways, I guess regular IRL meetings wouldn't work as we are spread out and travel costs money01:38
ian-weisserLots of IRL local LUGs for that.01:38
tsimonq2well I guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing to make sure that we aren't COMPLETELY dead, but I'll juggle the idea around a bit01:38
tsimonq2but I have confidence that I have the time and the brain power to fix this01:39
tsimonq2and afterwards to document what I did01:39
tsimonq2because AFAIR there's the really big LoCos and the really small inactive LoCos01:40
tsimonq2I want to help Ubuntu Wisconsin become a big LoCo and help others do the same01:40
tsimonq2I just have to figure out how first :)01:40
ian-weisserWith 20 members it's already a big LoCo. It's merely not active.01:41
tsimonq2so if you think of anything, my email is tsimonq2@ubuntu.com (yay for membership :D) and you know my IRC nick01:41
tsimonq2but I have a feeling there are a lot of lurkers01:41
tsimonq2which is why I did what I did recently01:41
ian-weisserWhich LoCos do you consider succesful...that you would want WI to be more like?01:41
tsimonq2and Oregon01:42
ian-weisserWhat's successful about them?01:42
tsimonq2I'm really good friends with wxl, the Oregon guy01:42
tsimonq2they have a precense01:42
* tsimonq2 thinks he spelled that wrong but doesn't care right now01:42
tsimonq2they are known01:42
tsimonq2they have credability01:43
tsimonq2and we just need to build up and have active members that have regular meetings and events and are active, even if it's a +101:43
ian-weisserOkay, so they market themselves well. How do they help Ubuntu?01:43
tsimonq2California just held UbuCon01:43
tsimonq2that SIGNIFICANTLY helped Ubuntu01:44
tsimonq2I have to go for the night, different house to travel to, but I'll chew on this for sure01:44
ian-weisserSure. Safe travels01:44
tsimonq2ian-weisser: have a good night an ping me if you have anything else to add :)01:45
tsimonq2alright, I'll be here :)01:45
ian-weissertsimonq2: Yesterday you mentioned CA and OR as LoCos that seem to have it going on: Active members, regular meetings, events. Worth picking up that thread or not?21:23
tsimonq2ian-weisser: hey, what do you mean?21:45
ian-weisserAre they worth emulating?21:46
tsimonq2ian-weisser: Yes, I think so21:47
tsimonq2because I feel that they are valuable to the Ubuntu community21:48
tsimonq2AND both wxl and nhaines are part of the LoCo council, so they know best about how to fine-tune their LoCos21:49
tsimonq2from other approved teams21:49
ian-weisserWhich elements of those teams have worked well? What lessons should we learn?21:50
tsimonq2regular events21:56
tsimonq2that's one21:57
tsimonq2but I really think another is a really engaged community21:57
tsimonq2a lot of people do a lot of different stuff21:58
tsimonq2ian-weisser: ^^22:01
* ian-weisser see it. He's just cooking while thinking and typing. Hungry children.22:01
ian-weisserWhat benefits do you see from regular, structured meetings instead of...say, regular "It's August, how is everyone doing?" threads on G+ or Forums or elsewhere?22:03
ian-weisserOutside Ubuntu, we hold meetings only for a specific purpose.22:04
ian-weisserMKE LUG's purpose is both presentation and social.22:04
tsimonq2well a common time for people to share things22:04
tsimonq2and fit them togethere22:04
tsimonq2I really see that sort of thing at meetings22:04
tsimonq2because otherwise things can die down22:05
tsimonq2yes exactly22:05
ian-weisserThe question has a purpose. LoCo council defines an active team partly by 'does it have regular meetings?'22:06
ian-weisserBut what's the point of meetings if it's not fun (social), there's not much to share, and there seeme little to coordinate?22:07
tsimonq2ian-weisser: then I guess a meeting isn't really strictly needed22:07
tsimonq2for that instance22:08
tsimonq2kinda why I changed our meetings to every 2 months22:08
tsimonq2because there wasn't much to look forward to22:08
tsimonq2now, in 2 months time, there is a lot that can go on, ESPECIALLY in the Ubuntu world22:09
ian-weisserWhat if the meetings were more fun? Or if sharing were a part of it? Or if coordination to projects was on the agenda?22:09
tsimonq2I could totally see that22:09
tsimonq2if ti's more fun for members :)22:09
ian-weisserExplore that branch: What's fun for members in IRC?22:10
tsimonq2one sec, gotta talk to dad22:10
tsimonq2okay, so I think just the informal nature of IRC allows for discussion22:12
tsimonq2kinda like, what was it, hallway sessions? basically for Ubuntu conferences, more was discussed over beer then the actual sessions, because it was more informal22:12
tsimonq2something like that22:12
ian-weisserI feel the opposite - IRC is convenient, but awful for effective communication. Gets too asynchronous too quickly, and there is no way to communicate nonverbal cues.22:13
tsimonq2well there's that as well22:14
tsimonq2I guess it depends on the person22:14
tsimonq2I know a few people who prefer IRC22:14
ian-weisserTrue, but the point is that IRC's format is a barrier to participation for many.22:15
tsimonq2I agree22:15
tsimonq2which is why, although IRC is good, video chats beat it every time22:16
tsimonq2such as Hangouts22:16
ian-weisserThe main advantage of IRC is that it's NOT video (technical hurdles).22:16
ian-weisserI can be wearing pajamas.22:16
ian-weisserI can pick my nose.22:17
tsimonq2that, and the instant communication in a lot more situations22:17
ian-weisserSo how about shared audio (conference call) for instant communications? Instead of IRC or Video chat?22:17
tsimonq2well sometimes people are at work in an office situation and IRC just works because it doesn't require any additional noise22:18
tsimonq2but Mumble is good for that as well22:18
ian-weisserRight. Perhaps a Text/Audio hybrid meeting format?22:19
* ian-weisser looks up Mumble22:20
ian-weisserAh, I was done with gaming before multiplayer came on scene.22:21
tsimonq2but it's also used for general audio conferencing22:22
tsimonq2it works well22:22
ian-weisserSo let's say a Audio and IRC meeting. The current business would go much faster?22:23
tsimonq2well, I don't know about that compared to Hangouts22:24
tsimonq2if we were free-software only that would be good enough but I think there's something advantageous about looking someone in the face22:25
ian-weisserHangouts are another possibility. Could do different methods on different months. See what works best.22:26
tsimonq2yeah I agree22:27
ian-weisserCould we do different fun activities in one medium or another?22:27
tsimonq2I think fun activities is good, I just don't think mixing it up all the time is a good idea22:28
tsimonq2I want to be consistent22:28
tsimonq2you get what I'm saying?22:28
ian-weisserNot sure if your 'mixing it up' matches mine. Is consistency working so far?22:30
tsimonq2not really actually, but I'm not sure it's the meeting format that's the problem22:30
ian-weisserOkay, what do you see as the problem(s)?22:31
tsimonq2maybe how the meetings are held?22:31
tsimonq2the content?22:31
tsimonq2I would love to allow more creativity22:32
ian-weisserI'm not sure what 'allow more creativity' means22:32
tsimonq2as in, allow for more sharing22:33
* ian-weisser walks off a minute to cook22:33
tsimonq2but I'm saying maybe more allowing of creative ideas by giving regular time to share what's been going on22:33
ian-weisserWhat's been going on with LoCo members, or with the wider Ubuntu community?22:37
tsimonq2both of that22:38
* ian-weisser returns from cooking. Smells good already.22:42
ian-weisserHas the LoCo exposed much about  what WI LoCo members are doing?22:43
tsimonq2not really22:44
tsimonq2but nobody has really shared...22:44
tsimonq2except for h00ks incoming bundle of joy22:44
ian-weisserI have shared.22:44
ian-weisserI know mikeputnam has shared22:44
tsimonq2so where do you think I should post that?22:45
ian-weisserNo, it's not for you or the LoCo to share personal stories. That quickly leads down a path to inappropriate posts and hurt feelings.22:46
tsimonq2well I din't mean that as an example, I am sorry22:46
tsimonq2I didn't mean that22:46
tsimonq2I mean accomplsihments22:47
tsimonq2like isn't there a new Find-a-task incoming?22:47
tsimonq2or Xenial Xerus?22:47
tsimonq2or something like that22:48
tsimonq2ian-weisser: anyways, I didn't mean personal things, I mean accomplishments within the community, like Ubuntu Membership22:49
ian-weisserUbuntu-related achievements can indeed be trumpeted...as long as we are sentive that some personalities don't like the attention (of course, you already know that).22:50
tsimonq2yes, of course with permission22:51
ian-weisserFind-a-Task: New version seems doubtful. I argue for scrapping the version we have. It's a solution in search of a problem, and ineffective...and I wrote it!22:51
tsimonq2actually I find it quite useful for newcomers22:52
tsimonq2I just link them22:52
tsimonq2so yes, it is useful22:52
ian-weisserI have yet to discover a single new participant who found their role using Find-a-Task. I've been asking around! When I find *one*, I will happily re-examine my opinion.22:53
tsimonq2heheh okay22:53
tsimonq2ian-weisser: I have a feeling it would be good to invite wxl here to talk quick, I see he's online22:54
* ian-weisser enjoys the house filling with warm food smell22:55
tsimonq2ian-weisser: whatcha cookin?22:56
ian-weisserFritatta - like a big baked omlette with spaghetti.22:56
tsimonq2oh cool22:57
tsimonq2sounds good22:57
ian-weisserNo, very hot. Don't touch.22:57
tsimonq2oh :D22:57
ian-weisserIRC lacks non-verbal cues...22:57
tsimonq2hello wxl22:57
tsimonq2I'm here with ian-weisser22:58
wxlyou get the idea22:58
tsimonq2wxl: so we are discussing ways to make the LoCo a lot better, something like California22:58
tsimonq2have any discussion points?22:58
wxlyeah it's a very complex question22:59
wxllargely it depends on the people involved and their willingness to assist22:59
wxlyou have some heavy hitters in california22:59
tsimonq2yeah I agree23:00
wxlgrowing the loco requires a lot of leg work23:00
wxlmaking brochures and leaving them everywhere23:00
wxlhaving regular meetings (ubuntu hours are great for that)23:00
tsimonq2so how do we get good people helping, let's start with that?23:00
ian-weisserwxl: Do you have a lot of participation outside of PDX metro?23:00
wxlwell again, it depends on willingness :)23:00
wxlian-weisser: we have about equal participation in pdx as we do everywhere else23:01
tsimonq2wxl: how do you get active members, rather? THat might lead to people stepping up23:01
tsimonq2we have 20 members on Launchpad23:01
wxli did a lot of talking and encouraging the get the ones i have23:01
wxlshowing them how they can do little things23:01
wxli looked for core people that were not in the same geographic area as me that i could count as deputies23:02
tsimonq2examples of delegated items?23:02
wxland believe me, my loco is nowhere near where i want it to be23:02
wxlit ultimately takes a lot of work and constant encouragement23:02
wxlwell, for example, i had sgclark run a booth for us23:02
wxli told her i would take care of getting canonical to fund it23:02
wxlif she did the work23:03
wxland she did and all was well :)23:03
ian-weisserwxl: What, in a perfect world, would OR LoCo look like?23:03
wxlpeople have differnt barriers that keep them from contributing23:03
wxlhaving to do too much crap to do the fun stuff is one of them23:03
wxlbeing shy is another23:03
wxlas is not being confident in one's abilities to help23:03
wxlso again, encouragement and making it simple is important23:04
wxlian-weisser: in a perfect world, i'd have at least one deputy in every part of oregon23:04
wxlian-weisser: all of them would coordinate locally to contribute to different ideas23:04
wxlian-weisser: everyone would be coming up with ideas as to events to be involved in, presentations to make (e.g. to schools, businesses, governements, etc.)23:05
wxlian-weisser: we'd have people rushing to make presentations on different parts of the ubuntu project (touch, server, snappy, maas, etc. etc. etc.)23:05
wxlbut that's the perfect world for every loco23:05
wxlthe most successful ones seem to be overseas23:06
wxlwhere english is not the first language23:06
wxlfor them, the documentation that we have is not very useful23:06
tsimonq2wxl: what makes them successful?23:06
wxlthey spend a lot of time making translations and having their own resources available to the coun try23:06
wxland in that way, users come to depend on them23:06
tsimonq2ahhhh I see23:07
wxli think locos in the us are most likely to succeed as social opportunities23:07
wxlthat's what many bemoan about UOS: that unlike UDS, there's no one on one interaction23:07
ian-weisserwxl: +1 social opportunities23:07
wxlbut people i think are more motivated by something they don't know than just socializing23:08
wxli admit i'm even the same way23:08
wxlour lug has weekly social gatherings23:08
wxland monthly talks23:08
wxli rarely miss the talks23:08
wxlthe social gatherings i'm a little meh about23:08
wxli mean if i want to just shoot the stuff *(ahem)* i can do that on irc :)23:09
ian-weisserHow do the weeklies work for the outside-Portlanders?23:09
ian-weisserDo many journey for the monthlies?23:09
wxlbut it's weird that when we have the talks, the social gatherings we have afterwards (we usually go out for dinner or something, informally) are much more focused on linuxy stuff23:09
wxlian-weisser: well, i'm in eugene, so realize that, too23:09
ian-weisser(In WI, the geographic distribution is tough)23:09
wxlbut weeklies are usually local only23:10
wxlmonthlies and special meetings will get people from around the state23:10
ian-weisserWhat kinds of venues for monthlies?23:10
wxlwe usually work together with local universities or businesses23:11
wxli got us a nice set up at lane community college starting with the23:11
wxlomg i can't believe i'm on lc and forgetting this23:11
wxlthe things they do every release to try to get everyone to work on ubuntu?23:11
wxlthank you23:12
wxlwe had a jam a while back and i got lcc to give us a room and since then, our lug's been using it23:12
wxli try to liase with the lugs in the state when i do ubuntu events23:13
ian-weisserAny family events? Or Ubuntu geeks-only?23:13
wxloh i'm all inclusive as our lug is23:14
wxli mean it's all under the banner of ubuntu, but it's not like we turn our noses at non-ubuntu folks23:14
ian-weisserI'll rephrase: Any attempt to actively include families?23:15
wxli would be totally open to it for sure but not attempt is made specific to that23:15
ian-weissertsimonq2: You still with us?23:16
ian-weisserwxl: How many months/years of effort befoe you began to see some payoff?23:17
wxlian-weisser: it's hard to say. it all depends. but the only way you get any payoff is by putting in the work and not stopping.23:17
tsimonq2yep I'm still here23:18
tsimonq2just reading23:18
wxlian-weisser: the thing is, find core people and have them help build. you need to be able to delegate some things. even if you only have two people, that's better than only 1.23:18
wxlian-weisser: every core person should look for more core people and so on23:18
wxlian-weisser: the more you can delegate, the more you can get done23:18
ian-weisserwxl: Offtopic - do you happen to know any Ubuntu volunteer who discovered their role using Find-a-Task?23:20
wxlian-weisser: i don't, but i'll be honest with you, i haven't yet integrated that into lubuntu's wiki. i guess that's a job for tsimonq2 :)23:21
tsimonq2wxl: ?23:21
wxltsimonq2: find-a-task + lubuntu wiki. go. :)23:22
tsimonq2my dad wants to take us out to eat, so keep asking/answering questions, I'll read logs when I get back23:22
ian-weisserI must go in a few minutes - taking kids to music lessons.23:23
ian-weisserwxl: Happily, I did ask all my questions.23:23
wxlian-weisser: great. talk soon!23:23
ian-weisserwait, one more23:24
ian-weisserwxl: Do your teams pay much atention to high-flyers burining out?23:25
wxlian-weisser: it's always a concern but generally not an issue23:25
ian-weissernot sure what the means.23:26
wxlian-weisser: i've not seen anyone getting burnt out in team si'm involved in23:26
ian-weisserGot it.23:27
ian-weisserThanks for your time. I think we have a lot of good ideas for bringing energy to WI LoCo. We'll see what works out23:28
wxlian-weisser: let us know on the loco-contacts list how it all works out23:28
ian-weisserwxl: RGR23:29

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!