[01:14] <ian-weisser> tsimonq2: Topic for tonight - too much infrastructure for too few users?
[01:15] <tsimonq2> hai :)
[01:15] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: what do you mean?
[01:16] <ian-weisser> Is the overhead of all the rarely-used channels (like the blog) worth maintaining?
[01:16] <ian-weisser> I know, it's a riff on the LoCo portal rant.
[01:17] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: well I think the blog is needed to communicate to the community at large so I support that staying
[01:17] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: what else do you think should go?
[01:19] <ian-weisser> tsimonq2: Reverse the question. You do all the work - what do *you* think isn't worthwhile?
[01:19] <tsimonq2> oh jeez :D
[01:20] <tsimonq2> well since I designed the resources I think they are all needed
[01:20] <tsimonq2> but I think the question is, do you, as a LoCo member, have any suggestions?
[01:21] <ian-weisser> Of course, but none are worth fighting for. If someone else is doing the work, why should I care?
[01:22] <ian-weisser> ...but that does lead to lots of effort for little gain.
[01:22] <ian-weisser> ...lots of *your* effort.
[01:22] <ian-weisser> I think it might be nice to see some gain from your effort.
[01:23] <ian-weisser> You deserve it.
[01:23] <tsimonq2> give me an example :)
[01:23] <tsimonq2> thank you :)
[01:23] <ian-weisser> Example: Blog.
[01:23] <tsimonq2> what exactly do you think could be gained from the blog?
[01:24] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: and what do you mean by gain?
[01:24] <tsimonq2> gain as in the LoCo or the community at large?
[01:26] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: (I guess I'm asking because I'm glad I'm getting more input)
[01:27] <ian-weisser> 'Gain' in any sense of the purpose of the LoCo. Effective marketing of Ubuntu. Effective counter-FUD, Social events, More contributors to Ubuntu.
[01:27] <tsimonq2> ohh I see
[01:27] <ian-weisser> Else we're just a rather small clique.
[01:28] <tsimonq2> yeah I agree, a team that's just users and doesn't do anything
[01:28] <tsimonq2> at times I like to compare us to the California LoCo
[01:28] <tsimonq2> as in where we need to go
[01:28] <ian-weisser> That
[01:28] <tsimonq2> to be successful
[01:29] <ian-weisser> That's easy - the members will lead in multiple directions. The LoCo is an ubrella that supports and coordinates
[01:29] <tsimonq2> I agree but our of the 20 members on Launchpad not many people have stepped up
[01:29] <ian-weisser> Example: The LoCo has (effectively) coordinated with MKE LUG for the May/June UpgradeFest
[01:29] <tsimonq2> exactly
[01:30] <ian-weisser> Oops. Talking at the same time.
[01:30] <ian-weisser> So...what do we do to get members to step up?
[01:31] <tsimonq2> I just think that this was a HUGE problem that caused this LoCo to be inactive for so many years and I think this is our weak spot
[01:31] <tsimonq2> I have no clue *yet* to be honest with you
[01:31] <tsimonq2> I've been chewing on some ideas
[01:31] <tsimonq2> but I've ruled them out
[01:32] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: so do you have any ideas?
[01:32] <tsimonq2> and if so I'd like to hear them
[01:32]  * ian-weisser pauses while spouse explains a Simpsons joke
[01:32] <tsimonq2> :)
[01:34] <tsimonq2> while you are doing that I sohuld fix the topic
[01:34] <tsimonq2> *should
[01:34] <ian-weisser> New topic: AAAAHHH! THE ROBOTS!!!! AAAAHHHH!
[01:35] <ian-weisser> Freehotdog to everyone who notices.
[01:35] <tsimonq2>  Welcome to the Official IRC channel for the Ubuntu US Wisconsin LoCo Team!  | Please mind the guidelines: http://is.gd/r3bNJS | This channel is publicly logged here: http://is.gd/qsmiqS
[01:35] <tsimonq2> whoops :)
[01:35] <tsimonq2> there
[01:35] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: anyways
[01:36]  * ian-weisser pauses while spouse tells another story
[01:36] <tsimonq2> okay :D
[01:36]  * ian-weisser spouse doesn't realie he was having a conversation
[01:36]  * ian-weisser isn;t going to tell her
[01:37]  * ian-weisser is back
[01:37] <ian-weisser> That;s the very problem that befuddled h00k
[01:38] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: anyways, I guess regular IRL meetings wouldn't work as we are spread out and travel costs money
[01:38] <ian-weisser> Lots of IRL local LUGs for that.
[01:38] <tsimonq2> well I guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing to make sure that we aren't COMPLETELY dead, but I'll juggle the idea around a bit
[01:38] <tsimonq2> yeah
[01:39] <tsimonq2> but I have confidence that I have the time and the brain power to fix this
[01:39] <tsimonq2> and afterwards to document what I did
[01:40] <tsimonq2> because AFAIR there's the really big LoCos and the really small inactive LoCos
[01:40] <tsimonq2> I want to help Ubuntu Wisconsin become a big LoCo and help others do the same
[01:40] <tsimonq2> I just have to figure out how first :)
[01:41] <ian-weisser> With 20 members it's already a big LoCo. It's merely not active.
[01:41] <tsimonq2> so if you think of anything, my email is tsimonq2@ubuntu.com (yay for membership :D) and you know my IRC nick
[01:41] <tsimonq2> exactly
[01:41] <tsimonq2> but I have a feeling there are a lot of lurkers
[01:41] <tsimonq2> which is why I did what I did recently
[01:41] <ian-weisser> Which LoCos do you consider succesful...that you would want WI to be more like?
[01:42] <tsimonq2> California
[01:42] <tsimonq2> and Oregon
[01:42] <ian-weisser> What's successful about them?
[01:42] <tsimonq2> I'm really good friends with wxl, the Oregon guy
[01:42] <tsimonq2> they have a precense
[01:42]  * tsimonq2 thinks he spelled that wrong but doesn't care right now
[01:42] <tsimonq2> they are known
[01:43] <tsimonq2> they have credability
[01:43] <tsimonq2> and we just need to build up and have active members that have regular meetings and events and are active, even if it's a +1
[01:43] <ian-weisser> Okay, so they market themselves well. How do they help Ubuntu?
[01:43] <tsimonq2> California just held UbuCon
[01:44] <tsimonq2> that SIGNIFICANTLY helped Ubuntu
[01:44] <tsimonq2> I have to go for the night, different house to travel to, but I'll chew on this for sure
[01:44] <ian-weisser> Sure. Safe travels
[01:45] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: have a good night an ping me if you have anything else to add :)
[01:45] <ian-weisser> Lots.
[01:45] <ian-weisser> Later
[01:45] <tsimonq2> alright, I'll be here :)
[21:23] <ian-weisser> tsimonq2: Yesterday you mentioned CA and OR as LoCos that seem to have it going on: Active members, regular meetings, events. Worth picking up that thread or not?
[21:45] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: hey, what do you mean?
[21:46] <ian-weisser> Are they worth emulating?
[21:47] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: Yes, I think so
[21:48] <tsimonq2> because I feel that they are valuable to the Ubuntu community
[21:49] <tsimonq2> AND both wxl and nhaines are part of the LoCo council, so they know best about how to fine-tune their LoCos
[21:49] <tsimonq2> from other approved teams
[21:50] <ian-weisser> Which elements of those teams have worked well? What lessons should we learn?
[21:56] <tsimonq2> hmm
[21:56] <tsimonq2> regular events
[21:57] <tsimonq2> events/meetings
[21:57] <tsimonq2> that's one
[21:57] <tsimonq2> but I really think another is a really engaged community
[21:58] <tsimonq2> a lot of people do a lot of different stuff
[22:01] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: ^^
[22:01]  * ian-weisser see it. He's just cooking while thinking and typing. Hungry children.
[22:03] <ian-weisser> What benefits do you see from regular, structured meetings instead of...say, regular "It's August, how is everyone doing?" threads on G+ or Forums or elsewhere?
[22:04] <ian-weisser> Outside Ubuntu, we hold meetings only for a specific purpose.
[22:04] <ian-weisser> MKE LUG's purpose is both presentation and social.
[22:04] <tsimonq2> well a common time for people to share things
[22:04] <tsimonq2> and fit them togethere
[22:04] <tsimonq2> *together
[22:04] <tsimonq2> I really see that sort of thing at meetings
[22:05] <ian-weisser> ...coordination?
[22:05] <tsimonq2> because otherwise things can die down
[22:05] <tsimonq2> yes exactly
[22:06] <ian-weisser> The question has a purpose. LoCo council defines an active team partly by 'does it have regular meetings?'
[22:06] <tsimonq2> yeah
[22:07] <ian-weisser> But what's the point of meetings if it's not fun (social), there's not much to share, and there seeme little to coordinate?
[22:07] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: then I guess a meeting isn't really strictly needed
[22:08] <tsimonq2> for that instance
[22:08] <tsimonq2> kinda why I changed our meetings to every 2 months
[22:08] <ian-weisser> Sensible.
[22:08] <tsimonq2> because there wasn't much to look forward to
[22:09] <tsimonq2> now, in 2 months time, there is a lot that can go on, ESPECIALLY in the Ubuntu world
[22:09] <ian-weisser> What if the meetings were more fun? Or if sharing were a part of it? Or if coordination to projects was on the agenda?
[22:09] <tsimonq2> I could totally see that
[22:09] <tsimonq2> if ti's more fun for members :)
[22:10] <ian-weisser> Explore that branch: What's fun for members in IRC?
[22:10] <tsimonq2> one sec, gotta talk to dad
[22:11] <tsimonq2> back
[22:12] <tsimonq2> okay, so I think just the informal nature of IRC allows for discussion
[22:12] <tsimonq2> kinda like, what was it, hallway sessions? basically for Ubuntu conferences, more was discussed over beer then the actual sessions, because it was more informal
[22:12] <tsimonq2> something like that
[22:13] <ian-weisser> I feel the opposite - IRC is convenient, but awful for effective communication. Gets too asynchronous too quickly, and there is no way to communicate nonverbal cues.
[22:14] <tsimonq2> well there's that as well
[22:14] <tsimonq2> I guess it depends on the person
[22:14] <tsimonq2> I know a few people who prefer IRC
[22:15] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[22:15] <ian-weisser> True, but the point is that IRC's format is a barrier to participation for many.
[22:15] <tsimonq2> I agree
[22:16] <tsimonq2> which is why, although IRC is good, video chats beat it every time
[22:16] <tsimonq2> such as Hangouts
[22:16] <ian-weisser> The main advantage of IRC is that it's NOT video (technical hurdles).
[22:16] <ian-weisser> I can be wearing pajamas.
[22:17] <ian-weisser> I can pick my nose.
[22:17] <tsimonq2> that, and the instant communication in a lot more situations
[22:17] <tsimonq2> exactly
[22:17] <ian-weisser> So how about shared audio (conference call) for instant communications? Instead of IRC or Video chat?
[22:18] <tsimonq2> well sometimes people are at work in an office situation and IRC just works because it doesn't require any additional noise
[22:18] <tsimonq2> but Mumble is good for that as well
[22:19] <ian-weisser> Right. Perhaps a Text/Audio hybrid meeting format?
[22:20]  * ian-weisser looks up Mumble
[22:21] <ian-weisser> Ah, I was done with gaming before multiplayer came on scene.
[22:21] <tsimonq2> :)
[22:22] <tsimonq2> but it's also used for general audio conferencing
[22:22] <tsimonq2> it works well
[22:23] <ian-weisser> So let's say a Audio and IRC meeting. The current business would go much faster?
[22:24] <tsimonq2> well, I don't know about that compared to Hangouts
[22:25] <tsimonq2> if we were free-software only that would be good enough but I think there's something advantageous about looking someone in the face
[22:26] <ian-weisser> Hangouts are another possibility. Could do different methods on different months. See what works best.
[22:27] <tsimonq2> yeah I agree
[22:27] <ian-weisser> Could we do different fun activities in one medium or another?
[22:28] <tsimonq2> I think fun activities is good, I just don't think mixing it up all the time is a good idea
[22:28] <tsimonq2> I want to be consistent
[22:28] <tsimonq2> you get what I'm saying?
[22:30] <ian-weisser> Not sure if your 'mixing it up' matches mine. Is consistency working so far?
[22:30] <tsimonq2> not really actually, but I'm not sure it's the meeting format that's the problem
[22:31] <ian-weisser> Okay, what do you see as the problem(s)?
[22:31] <tsimonq2> maybe how the meetings are held?
[22:31] <tsimonq2> the content?
[22:32] <tsimonq2> I would love to allow more creativity
[22:32] <ian-weisser> I'm not sure what 'allow more creativity' means
[22:33] <tsimonq2> as in, allow for more sharing
[22:33]  * ian-weisser walks off a minute to cook
[22:33] <tsimonq2> alright
[22:33] <tsimonq2> but I'm saying maybe more allowing of creative ideas by giving regular time to share what's been going on
[22:37] <ian-weisser> What's been going on with LoCo members, or with the wider Ubuntu community?
[22:38] <tsimonq2> both of that
[22:42]  * ian-weisser returns from cooking. Smells good already.
[22:43] <ian-weisser> Has the LoCo exposed much about  what WI LoCo members are doing?
[22:44] <tsimonq2> not really
[22:44] <tsimonq2> but nobody has really shared...
[22:44] <tsimonq2> except for h00ks incoming bundle of joy
[22:44] <ian-weisser> I have shared.
[22:44] <ian-weisser> I know mikeputnam has shared
[22:45] <tsimonq2> so where do you think I should post that?
[22:45] <tsimonq2> blog?
[22:46] <ian-weisser> No, it's not for you or the LoCo to share personal stories. That quickly leads down a path to inappropriate posts and hurt feelings.
[22:46] <tsimonq2> well I din't mean that as an example, I am sorry
[22:46] <tsimonq2> I didn't mean that
[22:47] <tsimonq2> I mean accomplsihments
[22:47] <tsimonq2> like isn't there a new Find-a-task incoming?
[22:47] <tsimonq2> or Xenial Xerus?
[22:48] <tsimonq2> or something like that
[22:49] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: anyways, I didn't mean personal things, I mean accomplishments within the community, like Ubuntu Membership
[22:49] <ian-weisser> Understood.
[22:50] <ian-weisser> Ubuntu-related achievements can indeed be trumpeted...as long as we are sentive that some personalities don't like the attention (of course, you already know that).
[22:51] <tsimonq2> yes, of course with permission
[22:51] <ian-weisser> Find-a-Task: New version seems doubtful. I argue for scrapping the version we have. It's a solution in search of a problem, and ineffective...and I wrote it!
[22:52] <tsimonq2> actually I find it quite useful for newcomers
[22:52] <tsimonq2> I just link them
[22:52] <tsimonq2> so yes, it is useful
[22:53] <ian-weisser> I have yet to discover a single new participant who found their role using Find-a-Task. I've been asking around! When I find *one*, I will happily re-examine my opinion.
[22:53] <tsimonq2> heheh okay
[22:54] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: I have a feeling it would be good to invite wxl here to talk quick, I see he's online
[22:55]  * ian-weisser enjoys the house filling with warm food smell
[22:56] <tsimonq2> ian-weisser: whatcha cookin?
[22:56] <ian-weisser> Fritatta - like a big baked omlette with spaghetti.
[22:57] <tsimonq2> oh cool
[22:57] <tsimonq2> sounds good
[22:57] <ian-weisser> No, very hot. Don't touch.
[22:57] <tsimonq2> oh :D
[22:57] <ian-weisser> IRC lacks non-verbal cues...
[22:57] <tsimonq2> hello wxl
[22:57] <wxl> p/
[22:58] <wxl> um
[22:58] <tsimonq2> I'm here with ian-weisser
[22:58] <ian-weisser> Hello
[22:58] <wxl> you get the idea
[22:58] <tsimonq2> wxl: so we are discussing ways to make the LoCo a lot better, something like California
[22:58] <tsimonq2> have any discussion points?
[22:59] <wxl> yeah it's a very complex question
[22:59] <wxl> largely it depends on the people involved and their willingness to assist
[22:59] <wxl> you have some heavy hitters in california
[23:00] <tsimonq2> yeah I agree
[23:00] <wxl> growing the loco requires a lot of leg work
[23:00] <wxl> making brochures and leaving them everywhere
[23:00] <wxl> having regular meetings (ubuntu hours are great for that)
[23:00] <tsimonq2> so how do we get good people helping, let's start with that?
[23:00] <ian-weisser> wxl: Do you have a lot of participation outside of PDX metro?
[23:00] <wxl> well again, it depends on willingness :)
[23:01] <wxl> ian-weisser: we have about equal participation in pdx as we do everywhere else
[23:01] <tsimonq2> wxl: how do you get active members, rather? THat might lead to people stepping up
[23:01] <tsimonq2> we have 20 members on Launchpad
[23:01] <wxl> i did a lot of talking and encouraging the get the ones i have
[23:01] <wxl> showing them how they can do little things
[23:02] <wxl> i looked for core people that were not in the same geographic area as me that i could count as deputies
[23:02] <tsimonq2> examples of delegated items?
[23:02] <wxl> and believe me, my loco is nowhere near where i want it to be
[23:02] <wxl> it ultimately takes a lot of work and constant encouragement
[23:02] <wxl> well, for example, i had sgclark run a booth for us
[23:02] <wxl> i told her i would take care of getting canonical to fund it
[23:03] <wxl> if she did the work
[23:03] <wxl> and she did and all was well :)
[23:03] <ian-weisser> wxl: What, in a perfect world, would OR LoCo look like?
[23:03] <wxl> people have differnt barriers that keep them from contributing
[23:03] <wxl> having to do too much crap to do the fun stuff is one of them
[23:03] <wxl> being shy is another
[23:03] <wxl> as is not being confident in one's abilities to help
[23:04] <wxl> so again, encouragement and making it simple is important
[23:04] <wxl> ian-weisser: in a perfect world, i'd have at least one deputy in every part of oregon
[23:04] <wxl> ian-weisser: all of them would coordinate locally to contribute to different ideas
[23:05] <wxl> ian-weisser: everyone would be coming up with ideas as to events to be involved in, presentations to make (e.g. to schools, businesses, governements, etc.)
[23:05] <wxl> ian-weisser: we'd have people rushing to make presentations on different parts of the ubuntu project (touch, server, snappy, maas, etc. etc. etc.)
[23:05] <wxl> but that's the perfect world for every loco
[23:06] <tsimonq2> +1
[23:06] <wxl> the most successful ones seem to be overseas
[23:06] <wxl> where english is not the first language
[23:06] <wxl> for them, the documentation that we have is not very useful
[23:06] <tsimonq2> wxl: what makes them successful?
[23:06] <wxl> they spend a lot of time making translations and having their own resources available to the coun try
[23:06] <wxl> and in that way, users come to depend on them
[23:07] <tsimonq2> ahhhh I see
[23:07] <wxl> i think locos in the us are most likely to succeed as social opportunities
[23:07] <wxl> that's what many bemoan about UOS: that unlike UDS, there's no one on one interaction
[23:07] <ian-weisser> wxl: +1 social opportunities
[23:08] <wxl> but people i think are more motivated by something they don't know than just socializing
[23:08] <wxl> i admit i'm even the same way
[23:08] <wxl> our lug has weekly social gatherings
[23:08] <wxl> and monthly talks
[23:08] <wxl> i rarely miss the talks
[23:08] <wxl> the social gatherings i'm a little meh about
[23:09] <wxl> i mean if i want to just shoot the stuff *(ahem)* i can do that on irc :)
[23:09] <ian-weisser> How do the weeklies work for the outside-Portlanders?
[23:09] <ian-weisser> Do many journey for the monthlies?
[23:09] <wxl> but it's weird that when we have the talks, the social gatherings we have afterwards (we usually go out for dinner or something, informally) are much more focused on linuxy stuff
[23:09] <wxl> ian-weisser: well, i'm in eugene, so realize that, too
[23:09] <ian-weisser> (In WI, the geographic distribution is tough)
[23:10] <wxl> but weeklies are usually local only
[23:10] <wxl> monthlies and special meetings will get people from around the state
[23:10] <ian-weisser> What kinds of venues for monthlies?
[23:11] <wxl> we usually work together with local universities or businesses
[23:11] <wxl> i got us a nice set up at lane community college starting with the
[23:11] <wxl> uh
[23:11] <wxl> omg i can't believe i'm on lc and forgetting this
[23:11] <wxl> the things they do every release to try to get everyone to work on ubuntu?
[23:11] <wxl> ummmm
[23:12] <ian-weisser> Jam?
[23:12] <wxl> yes
[23:12] <wxl> thank you
[23:12] <wxl> jeeez
[23:12] <wxl> we had a jam a while back and i got lcc to give us a room and since then, our lug's been using it
[23:13] <wxl> i try to liase with the lugs in the state when i do ubuntu events
[23:13] <ian-weisser> Any family events? Or Ubuntu geeks-only?
[23:14] <wxl> oh i'm all inclusive as our lug is
[23:14] <wxl> i mean it's all under the banner of ubuntu, but it's not like we turn our noses at non-ubuntu folks
[23:15] <ian-weisser> I'll rephrase: Any attempt to actively include families?
[23:15] <wxl> no
[23:15] <wxl> i would be totally open to it for sure but not attempt is made specific to that
[23:16] <ian-weisser> tsimonq2: You still with us?
[23:17] <ian-weisser> wxl: How many months/years of effort befoe you began to see some payoff?
[23:17] <wxl> ian-weisser: it's hard to say. it all depends. but the only way you get any payoff is by putting in the work and not stopping.
[23:18] <tsimonq2> yep I'm still here
[23:18] <tsimonq2> just reading
[23:18] <wxl> ian-weisser: the thing is, find core people and have them help build. you need to be able to delegate some things. even if you only have two people, that's better than only 1.
[23:18] <wxl> ian-weisser: every core person should look for more core people and so on
[23:18] <wxl> ian-weisser: the more you can delegate, the more you can get done
[23:19] <tsimonq2> ^^^^
[23:20] <ian-weisser> wxl: Offtopic - do you happen to know any Ubuntu volunteer who discovered their role using Find-a-Task?
[23:21] <wxl> ian-weisser: i don't, but i'll be honest with you, i haven't yet integrated that into lubuntu's wiki. i guess that's a job for tsimonq2 :)
[23:21] <tsimonq2> wxl: ?
[23:22] <wxl> tsimonq2: find-a-task + lubuntu wiki. go. :)
[23:22] <tsimonq2> my dad wants to take us out to eat, so keep asking/answering questions, I'll read logs when I get back
[23:23] <ian-weisser> I must go in a few minutes - taking kids to music lessons.
[23:23] <ian-weisser> wxl: Happily, I did ask all my questions.
[23:23] <wxl> ian-weisser: great. talk soon!
[23:24] <ian-weisser> wait, one more
[23:25] <ian-weisser> wxl: Do your teams pay much atention to high-flyers burining out?
[23:25] <wxl> ian-weisser: it's always a concern but generally not an issue
[23:26] <ian-weisser> not sure what the means.
[23:26] <wxl> ian-weisser: i've not seen anyone getting burnt out in team si'm involved in
[23:27] <ian-weisser> Got it.
[23:28] <ian-weisser> Thanks for your time. I think we have a lot of good ideas for bringing energy to WI LoCo. We'll see what works out
[23:28] <wxl> ian-weisser: let us know on the loco-contacts list how it all works out
[23:29] <ian-weisser> wxl: RGR