=== meetingology` is now known as meetingology
dholbachgood morning07:54
=== popey_ is now known as popey
davidcalleMorning o/08:56
svijdpm: hey, we have an permission issue on ubucon.org, I've added two people to the ubucon-site-editors group, but they don't have the permission if they try to edit something11:19
svijjose had a look, it looks alright, but it isn't11:19
dpmsvij, let me have a look after lunch. I need to remind myself how we fixed it last time, withouth having to add everyone to the *-developers team11:25
svijI'm in the developers group, that atleast how we "fixed" my permissions11:26
svijund guten appetit ;)11:26
svijdpm: oh and also the speaker profile pics of ubucon summit are missing (again?)11:28
dpmyeah, that's what I mean, but I prefer fixing it properly. I did it for the old site (just after I had added you to the developers team), but now that change is gone. I need to remind myself how I did it, and add than change to the charm11:28
dpmsvij, on the speakers page or on the talks page?11:28
svijdpm: talks11:29
svijalso that sub navigation bar is missing in the subpages of ubucon summit11:29
dpmsvij, will loom at it, thanks!11:36
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
popeydholbach: if you get a moment could you please manually review clock? https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/121/rev/37/16:51
dholbachhave a good one! big hugs!17:00
pleia2can someone approve ~nairwolf to the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad team? (we're having a meeting and he can't see our pad, oops)17:16
pleia2and I am no longer an admin, since no more CC17:16
knomemhall119, ping ^17:17
mhall119pleia2: knome: approved17:18
pleia2thank you :)17:18
popeypleia2: wanna be an admin again?17:59
pleia2popey: after asking, I realized that through some launchpad magic apparently I still am18:00
pleia2I can't figure out how though18:00
pleia2says I'm a member via ubuntumembers, but that doesn't have admin, and I'm not a direct member18:00
popeyi thought you were a direct admin18:00
pleia2my name is not on the member list18:00
pleia2it's weird :)18:00
knomepleia2, isn't the member list paginated?18:01
pleia2knome: yes, I paged through to E18:01
mhall119there's probably several if user.nickname == 'pleia2': lines in Launchpad's code :)18:01
pleia2mhall119: srsly18:01
pleia2(well, ~lyz)18:02
popeywhy does lp not have a "list the admins"18:02
pleia2because lp18:02
knomepleia2, the list is ordered by the username, yeah18:02
knomehmm, no18:02
popeyoh, all loco teams are in it18:02
popeybut dunno about admins, voodoo18:02
pleia2it's a mystery18:02
popeyah well, lets not ask too many questions or it'll break :)18:03
pleia2more 500 errors than not on wiki.ubuntu.com, I can't even create a page now18:05
pleia2this is making me crazy /o\18:06
knomepleia2, i'll take care of it18:06
wxlcan we just lock the freaking thing down?18:06
knomepleia2, the minutes you are trying to do, that is18:06
wxli'm sorry, if we can't get work done, i don't even care about whether or not we lose "drive by" edits18:06
pleia2wxl: then I *really* won't be able to create new pages :P18:06
wxlpleia2: no, i mean to a select group18:07
pleia2ah, yeah, that'd be nice18:07
pleia2I need to get the newsletter done this weekend, if no wiki, no newsletter18:07
wxlyeah and the membership board has been passing around SCREENSHOTS of applications uggggh18:07
* pleia2 nods18:07
pleia2it's really bad18:07
wxli'm all for leaving things open to the community, but if NO ONE can get anything done, security is a better choice18:08
popeyjust reading backscroll from IS18:08
pleia2I don't have all day to refresh the wiki in order to volunteer18:08
popeyseems the 500 errors are triggered by the anti-spam scripts18:08
popeythey were working on it a couple of hoursa ago18:08
wxli know we've had some discussion on this on the mailing list, but i think the question of switching to media wiki got a little confused with the more urgent problem we have18:08
pleia2wxl: yeah, the thread is a disaster18:08
* wxl sighs18:09
knomepleia2, i was able to create the new page by just refreshing the 500 error page18:09
wxlknome: yeah you can refresh sometimes once, sometimes 20 times, and you'll get something eventually, but that's annoying at best18:09
pleia2knome: yeah, I got bored with refreshing, and it likely dumped me into a pot saying I was a spammer anyway :)18:09
pleia2anyway, back to work18:10
knomethe situation *is* so bad that we've set up our own wiki for xubuntu18:10
knomegoodbye 500 errors.18:10
pleia2considering moving the main publishing platform for UWN off the wiki, but honestly I don't have time to come up with something18:11
pleia2and I'm certainly not going to host whatever it is18:11
wxlpopey: i feel like IS is just putting band aids on the thing. i wish the cc would just vote to lock the thing down to a select group.18:11
pleia2wxl: +118:11
popeyThen deal with the possible migration?18:14
pleia2any migration will take months, maybe years18:14
wxlthe migration is not easy18:14
pleia2I need to use the wiki today18:14
wxli've already looked into what it takes and there's no EASY way to migrate18:14
popeymaybe the select group could be ubuntu-etherpad group or similar18:14
wxleven for a small wiki18:15
pleia2popey: yes, the ubuntu-etherpad group would do18:15
popeylets not talk about migration now, that's for tomorrow :)18:15
wxlpopey: how does one gain ubuntu-etherpad membership?18:15
wxl+1 popey18:15
pleia2apply to the team in lp, someone approves18:15
popeyyou request and an admin approves18:15
wxlok that seems reasonable18:15
popeyif someone messes the wiki, we remove them18:15
popeyunlikely though18:15
wxli can get behind that18:15
wxlthen we could at least have control over it18:16
popeyI'll speak to the IS vanguard, they *just* went to lunch18:16
wxland it wouldn't require IS' work18:16
popeywhen they get back I'll ask if it's much work to do18:16
pleia2wxl: it would, since a lp group needs to be mapped to a wiki group18:16
popeycould be a good quick fix18:16
wxlpopey: i know moin moin permissions to some degree, so let me know if they need some help18:16
pleia2who knows how hard that is :\18:16
popeyyeah, we'll see18:16
wxlpleia2: well, i mean for maintaining users if they're not behaving18:16
pleia2wxl: ah yes, that18:16
popeyand we can always add more admins to the lp group18:16
wxl+1 popey18:17
popeywell if they dont behave we just remove them from the lp group, simple18:17
wxlyes that's what i mean18:17
wxlno need to bug IS18:17
wxl*we* can manage it18:17
mhall119man, I can't even log in when the wiki *doesn't* 50019:01
balloonsi find after europe goes to bed it gets better :-)19:15
popeyWe never sleep19:16
popeywxl: mhall119 has been talking to deej about the issue.20:13
wxlthanks popey. keep us updated if you or mhall119 find anything more out.20:13
popeywe will20:14
mhall119pleia2: your membership in ~community-web-admins gives you the ability to approve ~ubuntu-etherpad members21:13
mhall119pleia2: wxl: FYI, IS is okay with the proposal to use ~ubuntu-etherpad to restrict editing access, and getting rid of the spam-protection scripts that are causing the 500 errors21:22
mhall119they're going to try and implement it today21:22
wxlmhall119: thank you so much for pushing that forward21:25
wxlmhall119: please give me an update when it's happened and i'll make sure to update all my teams. if you need another admin to manage users in ~ubuntu-etherpad, feel free to add me21:26
mhall119wxl: thanks, I'll let you know when I get an update from them21:26
wxlyay! so glad we have a solution!21:26
wxlwe should also prepare an email to community-team and any other relevant mailing list21:27
wxland/or put it in uwn21:27
wxland/or put it on fridge/planet21:27
wxland make sure that we discuss both the short term solution and the long term one21:27
wxlsince people WILL complain about limiting access21:27
wxlif you need help writing then, i'd be happy to help21:28
pleia2mhall119: aha!22:26
pleia2etherpad adminyness22:38
mhall119yeah, still some issues with errors and load times going on, but I just confirmed that edit access via team membership works22:38
wxlahhh so we're good to go????22:38
knomeetherpad adminyness sounds like a name22:38
mhall119wxl: well, we're getting better at least22:39
mhall119you'll have to log out and back in for the new permissions to take effect22:39
mhall119and the login takes a while to complete22:39
wxlIS should log everyone out22:39
mhall119you'll expect it to timeout, but it gets there eventually it seems22:39
wxland/or restart the whole wiki if that'll do the same thing22:40
pleia2can this be done for help.ubuntu.com/community wiki too?22:40
wxl+1 pleia222:40
pleia2the ContributorTeam was one of the suggestions we had in that ticket22:40
mhall119pleia2: I asked for it there too, let me double check22:41
mhall119wxl: it would probably be better to tell people that they need to confirm ubuntu-etherpad membership at login before we log anybody out22:41
mhall119since it's not obvious22:41
wxlmhall119: intention for doing that?22:42
mhall119wxl: doing what?22:42
wxlmhall119: informing people— globally22:42
mhall119so that people know they have to confirm their ubuntu-etherpad membership when logging in to the wiki, otherwise they don't get edit access22:43
mhall119they can log in without sharing that membership data with the wiki, and SSO defaults to having membership data unchecked22:43
wxlis everyone logged in now still have edit access?22:44
pleia2also, we'll need to put this info in the footer or something22:44
wxl+1 pleia222:44
mhall119wxl: I don't think so22:44
wxlmhall119: oh well then our problems with load times should go away pretty soon22:44
mhall119wxl: that's the theory anyway, we'll have to wait and see what reality brings us :)22:45
mhall119pleia2: they plan to do the same setup on help.ubuntu.com/community, but they're trying to fix the 500s that are still happening on wiki.ubuntu.com first22:45
mhall119I'm EOD already, and late for my walk, but I will check in with them again tomorrow22:46
pleia2mhall119: makes sense, thanks22:46
wxlpleia2 and i will complain about it while you're going22:46
wxls/complain about/help with/22:46
mhall119wxl: lol22:48
mhall119thanks to you guys and popey for this idea, it seems like it'll work to fix the short-term and give us breathing space to plan for the long-term22:49
wxlyay thanks to mhall119 and popey and IS!22:50
wxlspam seems to have stopped! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?max_days=122:50
wxlnow i imagine the next step is to clean all the spam off22:50
wxlall those extra pages have got to be dragging things down22:51
wxlsince moin moin is flat file ugggggh22:52
pleia2IS did a nice job tidying up last time, we (knome) only needed to fix a few pages22:52
tsimonq2FWIW I really like this solution :)23:03
wxlyeah but it needs to remain a temporary fix23:03
pleia2I don't, it's not such a wiki anymore23:03
pleia2but it's tolerable23:03
wxl+1 pleia223:04
pleia2and a major improvement23:04
tsimonq2+1 wxl23:04
wxlwhat makes me pleased is we're still talking about media wiki migration23:04
pleia2wxl: same23:04
tsimonq2this will make it less urgent and allow for more time :)23:04
wxllet's open source the moin moin to media wiki migration tool!!!!!23:04
pleia2though I have spent quite a bit of time over the past week getting the openstack wiki back under control23:04
tsimonq2YES! There aren't any really solid ones!23:04
tsimonq2(@ wxl)23:05
wxlpleia2: innit that mediawiki?23:05
pleia2wxl: it is, but it's getting hit with all these fake lp accounst too23:05
pleia2the spam problem is not wiki-specific, it's launchpad specific23:05
wxlpleia2: what is your long term solution?23:05
pleia2find a new job23:05
wxl19 minutes and no spam!!! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?max_days=123:06
pleia2we don't have one yet, we have a whole group of people helping with spam prevention methods as each attack comes through (our system is managed through code review + git, so people submit changes)23:06
* tsimonq2 gives wxl a high-five :D23:06
pleia2apply changes, spam slows down, repeat23:06
pleia2we're also looking to switch off of launchpad for auth ASAP23:07
pleia2since we have no control over it, or the accounts23:07
pleia2it was on our list anyway, we have our own openid server that we're migrating things too23:07
wxlargh now i'm getting 500s23:07
pleia2er other way around23:08
pleia2I am going to lie down again23:08
* pleia2 headache triage23:08
wxli'm going to come to this later23:09
wxljust when i thought things were moving along23:09
tsimonq2wxl: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/auto-refresh/ifooldnmmcmlbdennkpdnlnbgbmfalko?hl=en-US have fun :D23:11

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