[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[08:56] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[11:09] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:19] <svij> dpm: hey, we have an permission issue on ubucon.org, I've added two people to the ubucon-site-editors group, but they don't have the permission if they try to edit something
[11:19] <svij> jose had a look, it looks alright, but it isn't
[11:25] <dpm> svij, let me have a look after lunch. I need to remind myself how we fixed it last time, withouth having to add everyone to the *-developers team
[11:26] <svij> I'm in the developers group, that atleast how we "fixed" my permissions
[11:26] <svij> und guten appetit ;)
[11:28] <svij> dpm: oh and also the speaker profile pics of ubucon summit are missing (again?)
[11:28] <dpm> yeah, that's what I mean, but I prefer fixing it properly. I did it for the old site (just after I had added you to the developers team), but now that change is gone. I need to remind myself how I did it, and add than change to the charm
[11:28] <dpm> svij, on the speakers page or on the talks page?
[11:29] <svij> dpm: talks
[11:29] <svij> also that sub navigation bar is missing in the subpages of ubucon summit
[11:36] <dpm> svij, will loom at it, thanks!
[11:36] <svij> thanks!
[16:51] <popey> dholbach: if you get a moment could you please manually review clock? https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/121/rev/37/
[16:52] <dholbach> sure
[16:52] <popey> thanks!
[17:00] <dholbach> have a good one! big hugs!
[17:16] <pleia2> can someone approve ~nairwolf to the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad team? (we're having a meeting and he can't see our pad, oops)
[17:16] <pleia2> and I am no longer an admin, since no more CC
[17:17] <knome> mhall119, ping ^
[17:18] <mhall119> pleia2: knome: approved
[17:18] <pleia2> thank you :)
[17:18] <knome> ta
[17:59] <popey> pleia2: wanna be an admin again?
[18:00] <pleia2> popey: after asking, I realized that through some launchpad magic apparently I still am
[18:00] <pleia2> I can't figure out how though
[18:00] <popey> heh
[18:00] <pleia2> says I'm a member via ubuntumembers, but that doesn't have admin, and I'm not a direct member
[18:00] <popey> i thought you were a direct admin
[18:00] <pleia2> my name is not on the member list
[18:00] <pleia2> it's weird :)
[18:01] <knome> pleia2, isn't the member list paginated?
[18:01] <pleia2> knome: yes, I paged through to E
[18:01] <mhall119> there's probably several if user.nickname == 'pleia2': lines in Launchpad's code :)
[18:01] <pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/+members?active_batch=75&active_memo=225&active_start=225
[18:01] <pleia2> mhall119: srsly
[18:02] <pleia2> (well, ~lyz)
[18:02] <popey> why does lp not have a "list the admins"
[18:02] <pleia2> because lp
[18:02] <knome> pleia2, the list is ordered by the username, yeah
[18:02] <knome> hmm, no
[18:02] <knome> weird
[18:02] <popey> oh, all loco teams are in it
[18:02] <popey> but dunno about admins, voodoo
[18:02] <pleia2> it's a mystery
[18:03] <popey> ah well, lets not ask too many questions or it'll break :)
[18:03] <pleia2> hehe
[18:05] <pleia2> more 500 errors than not on wiki.ubuntu.com, I can't even create a page now
[18:06] <pleia2> this is making me crazy /o\
[18:06] <knome> pleia2, i'll take care of it
[18:06] <wxl> can we just lock the freaking thing down?
[18:06] <knome> pleia2, the minutes you are trying to do, that is
[18:06] <wxl> i'm sorry, if we can't get work done, i don't even care about whether or not we lose "drive by" edits
[18:06] <pleia2> wxl: then I *really* won't be able to create new pages :P
[18:07] <wxl> pleia2: no, i mean to a select group
[18:07] <pleia2> ah, yeah, that'd be nice
[18:07] <pleia2> I need to get the newsletter done this weekend, if no wiki, no newsletter
[18:07] <wxl> yeah and the membership board has been passing around SCREENSHOTS of applications uggggh
[18:07]  * pleia2 nods
[18:07] <pleia2> it's really bad
[18:08] <wxl> i'm all for leaving things open to the community, but if NO ONE can get anything done, security is a better choice
[18:08] <pleia2> yep
[18:08] <popey> just reading backscroll from IS
[18:08] <pleia2> I don't have all day to refresh the wiki in order to volunteer
[18:08] <popey> seems the 500 errors are triggered by the anti-spam scripts
[18:08] <popey> they were working on it a couple of hoursa ago
[18:08] <pleia2> great
[18:08] <wxl> i know we've had some discussion on this on the mailing list, but i think the question of switching to media wiki got a little confused with the more urgent problem we have
[18:08] <pleia2> wxl: yeah, the thread is a disaster
[18:09]  * wxl sighs
[18:09] <knome> pleia2, i was able to create the new page by just refreshing the 500 error page
[18:09] <wxl> knome: yeah you can refresh sometimes once, sometimes 20 times, and you'll get something eventually, but that's annoying at best
[18:09] <pleia2> knome: yeah, I got bored with refreshing, and it likely dumped me into a pot saying I was a spammer anyway :)
[18:10] <pleia2> anyway, back to work
[18:10] <knome> the situation *is* so bad that we've set up our own wiki for xubuntu
[18:10] <knome> goodbye 500 errors.
[18:11] <pleia2> considering moving the main publishing platform for UWN off the wiki, but honestly I don't have time to come up with something
[18:11] <pleia2> and I'm certainly not going to host whatever it is
[18:11] <wxl> popey: i feel like IS is just putting band aids on the thing. i wish the cc would just vote to lock the thing down to a select group.
[18:11] <pleia2> wxl: +1
[18:14] <popey> Then deal with the possible migration?
[18:14] <wxl> yes
[18:14] <pleia2> any migration will take months, maybe years
[18:14] <wxl> the migration is not easy
[18:14] <pleia2> I need to use the wiki today
[18:14] <wxl> i've already looked into what it takes and there's no EASY way to migrate
[18:14] <popey> maybe the select group could be ubuntu-etherpad group or similar
[18:15] <wxl> even for a small wiki
[18:15] <pleia2> popey: yes, the ubuntu-etherpad group would do
[18:15] <popey> lets not talk about migration now, that's for tomorrow :)
[18:15] <wxl> popey: how does one gain ubuntu-etherpad membership?
[18:15] <wxl> +1 popey
[18:15] <pleia2> apply to the team in lp, someone approves
[18:15] <popey> you request and an admin approves
[18:15] <wxl> ok that seems reasonable
[18:15] <popey> if someone messes the wiki, we remove them
[18:15] <popey> unlikely though
[18:15] <wxl> i can get behind that
[18:16] <wxl> then we could at least have control over it
[18:16] <popey> I'll speak to the IS vanguard, they *just* went to lunch
[18:16] <wxl> and it wouldn't require IS' work
[18:16] <popey> when they get back I'll ask if it's much work to do
[18:16] <pleia2> wxl: it would, since a lp group needs to be mapped to a wiki group
[18:16] <popey> could be a good quick fix
[18:16] <wxl> popey: i know moin moin permissions to some degree, so let me know if they need some help
[18:16] <pleia2> who knows how hard that is :\
[18:16] <popey> yeah, we'll see
[18:16] <wxl> pleia2: well, i mean for maintaining users if they're not behaving
[18:16] <pleia2> wxl: ah yes, that
[18:16] <popey> and we can always add more admins to the lp group
[18:17] <wxl> +1 popey
[18:17] <popey> well if they dont behave we just remove them from the lp group, simple
[18:17] <wxl> yes that's what i mean
[18:17] <wxl> no need to bug IS
[18:17] <wxl> *we* can manage it
[18:17] <popey> exactly
[19:01] <mhall119> man, I can't even log in when the wiki *doesn't* 500
[19:15] <balloons> i find after europe goes to bed it gets better :-)
[19:16] <popey> We never sleep
[20:13] <popey> wxl: mhall119 has been talking to deej about the issue.
[20:13] <wxl> thanks popey. keep us updated if you or mhall119 find anything more out.
[20:14] <popey> we will
[21:13] <mhall119> pleia2: your membership in ~community-web-admins gives you the ability to approve ~ubuntu-etherpad members
[21:22] <mhall119> pleia2: wxl: FYI, IS is okay with the proposal to use ~ubuntu-etherpad to restrict editing access, and getting rid of the spam-protection scripts that are causing the 500 errors
[21:22] <mhall119> they're going to try and implement it today
[21:25] <wxl> mhall119: thank you so much for pushing that forward
[21:26] <wxl> mhall119: please give me an update when it's happened and i'll make sure to update all my teams. if you need another admin to manage users in ~ubuntu-etherpad, feel free to add me
[21:26] <mhall119> wxl: thanks, I'll let you know when I get an update from them
[21:26] <wxl> yay! so glad we have a solution!
[21:27] <wxl> we should also prepare an email to community-team and any other relevant mailing list
[21:27] <wxl> and/or put it in uwn
[21:27] <wxl> and/or put it on fridge/planet
[21:27] <wxl> and make sure that we discuss both the short term solution and the long term one
[21:27] <wxl> since people WILL complain about limiting access
[21:28] <wxl> if you need help writing then, i'd be happy to help
[21:28] <wxl> s/then/that/
[22:26] <pleia2> mhall119: aha!
[22:29] <mhall119> aha?
[22:38] <pleia2> etherpad adminyness
[22:38] <mhall119> yeah, still some issues with errors and load times going on, but I just confirmed that edit access via team membership works
[22:38] <wxl> ahhh so we're good to go????
[22:38] <knome> etherpad adminyness sounds like a name
[22:39] <mhall119> wxl: well, we're getting better at least
[22:39] <mhall119> you'll have to log out and back in for the new permissions to take effect
[22:39] <mhall119> and the login takes a while to complete
[22:39] <wxl> IS should log everyone out
[22:39] <mhall119> you'll expect it to timeout, but it gets there eventually it seems
[22:40] <wxl> and/or restart the whole wiki if that'll do the same thing
[22:40] <pleia2> can this be done for help.ubuntu.com/community wiki too?
[22:40] <wxl> +1 pleia2
[22:40] <pleia2> the ContributorTeam was one of the suggestions we had in that ticket
[22:41] <mhall119> pleia2: I asked for it there too, let me double check
[22:41] <mhall119> wxl: it would probably be better to tell people that they need to confirm ubuntu-etherpad membership at login before we log anybody out
[22:41] <mhall119> since it's not obvious
[22:42] <wxl> mhall119: intention for doing that?
[22:42] <mhall119> wxl: doing what?
[22:42] <wxl> mhall119: informing people— globally
[22:43] <mhall119> so that people know they have to confirm their ubuntu-etherpad membership when logging in to the wiki, otherwise they don't get edit access
[22:43] <mhall119> they can log in without sharing that membership data with the wiki, and SSO defaults to having membership data unchecked
[22:44] <wxl> is everyone logged in now still have edit access?
[22:44] <pleia2> also, we'll need to put this info in the footer or something
[22:44] <wxl> +1 pleia2
[22:44] <mhall119> wxl: I don't think so
[22:44] <wxl> mhall119: oh well then our problems with load times should go away pretty soon
[22:45] <mhall119> wxl: that's the theory anyway, we'll have to wait and see what reality brings us :)
[22:45] <mhall119> pleia2: they plan to do the same setup on help.ubuntu.com/community, but they're trying to fix the 500s that are still happening on wiki.ubuntu.com first
[22:46] <mhall119> I'm EOD already, and late for my walk, but I will check in with them again tomorrow
[22:46] <pleia2> mhall119: makes sense, thanks
[22:46] <wxl> great
[22:46] <wxl> pleia2 and i will complain about it while you're going
[22:46] <wxl> s/complain about/help with/
[22:46] <wxl> XD
[22:47] <pleia2> lol
[22:48] <mhall119> wxl: lol
[22:49] <mhall119> thanks to you guys and popey for this idea, it seems like it'll work to fix the short-term and give us breathing space to plan for the long-term
[22:50] <wxl> yay thanks to mhall119 and popey and IS!
[22:50] <wxl> spam seems to have stopped! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?max_days=1
[22:50] <wxl> now i imagine the next step is to clean all the spam off
[22:51] <wxl> all those extra pages have got to be dragging things down
[22:52] <wxl> since moin moin is flat file ugggggh
[22:52] <pleia2> IS did a nice job tidying up last time, we (knome) only needed to fix a few pages
[22:54] <knome> yep
[23:03] <tsimonq2> FWIW I really like this solution :)
[23:03] <tsimonq2> (wiki)
[23:03] <wxl> yeah but it needs to remain a temporary fix
[23:03] <pleia2> I don't, it's not such a wiki anymore
[23:03] <pleia2> but it's tolerable
[23:04] <wxl> +1 pleia2
[23:04] <pleia2> and a major improvement
[23:04] <tsimonq2> +1 wxl
[23:04] <tsimonq2> yeah
[23:04] <wxl> what makes me pleased is we're still talking about media wiki migration
[23:04] <pleia2> wxl: same
[23:04] <tsimonq2> this will make it less urgent and allow for more time :)
[23:04] <wxl> let's open source the moin moin to media wiki migration tool!!!!!
[23:04] <pleia2> though I have spent quite a bit of time over the past week getting the openstack wiki back under control
[23:04] <tsimonq2> YES! There aren't any really solid ones!
[23:05] <tsimonq2> (@ wxl)
[23:05] <wxl> pleia2: innit that mediawiki?
[23:05] <pleia2> wxl: it is, but it's getting hit with all these fake lp accounst too
[23:05] <pleia2> the spam problem is not wiki-specific, it's launchpad specific
[23:05] <wxl> pleia2: what is your long term solution?
[23:05] <pleia2> find a new job
[23:05] <pleia2> :P
[23:05] <wxl> hahahhahaa
[23:06] <wxl> 19 minutes and no spam!!! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?max_days=1
[23:06] <pleia2> we don't have one yet, we have a whole group of people helping with spam prevention methods as each attack comes through (our system is managed through code review + git, so people submit changes)
[23:06]  * tsimonq2 gives wxl a high-five :D
[23:06] <pleia2> apply changes, spam slows down, repeat
[23:07] <pleia2> we're also looking to switch off of launchpad for auth ASAP
[23:07] <pleia2> since we have no control over it, or the accounts
[23:07] <pleia2> it was on our list anyway, we have our own openid server that we're migrating things too
[23:07] <wxl> argh now i'm getting 500s
[23:08] <pleia2> s/to/too
[23:08] <pleia2> er other way around
[23:08] <pleia2> I am going to lie down again
[23:08] <pleia2> :)
[23:08]  * pleia2 headache triage
[23:09] <wxl> uggggggggggggh
[23:09] <wxl> i'm going to come to this later
[23:09] <wxl> just when i thought things were moving along
[23:11] <tsimonq2> wxl: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/auto-refresh/ifooldnmmcmlbdennkpdnlnbgbmfalko?hl=en-US have fun :D