[01:09] <furkan> tjaalton: i just tested out the 20160310 live image, and the bug is reproducible
[01:11] <furkan> looking at the diff between the manifests, i don't see any possible culprit other than xorg?
[01:39] <furkan> tjaalton: looks like this is probably the issue, and there is a fix released in xserver git https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94246
[01:39] <furkan> glamor bug
[01:41] <furkan> if this is it, that should really be backported into a point release
[01:48] <furkan> these are the 2 patches:
[01:48] <furkan> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=b05ae79ee3bebef9790c97eedc033d1ffb3ec39a
[01:48] <furkan> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=a3e681eafa5355b8bb3b099d47983f14f0d5e197
[01:48] <furkan> i'll test them
[01:50] <furkan> actually it looks like it might depend on some previous patches as well
[05:15] <tjaalton> furkan: oh right, forgot glamor..
[05:16] <tjaalton> furkan: mind filing a bug?
[05:17] <furkan> tjaalton: sure, will do
[05:17] <furkan> but i haven't tested the patch
[05:18] <furkan> did an apt-get source and was manually merging those two patches but noticed some other discrepancies in the code
[05:18] <furkan> wasn't really in the mood of breaking anything tonight
[05:19] <furkan> so based on that, it seems there have been other patches to the same functions in question, so it may require a bit of fiddling to backport
[05:19] <tjaalton> sure
[05:23] <alkisg> nouveau@riva-tnt2: x11perf -putimagexy500 -eschertilerect500 -repeat 1
[05:23] <alkisg> 2000 reps @   4.4646 msec (   224.0/sec): 500x500 tiled rectangle (216x208 tile)
[05:23] <alkisg> 4 reps @ 8389.1916 msec (     0.1/sec): PutImage XY 500x500 square
[05:23] <alkisg> ==> how is it possible for a single putimage to need 20 seconds?!
[05:29] <tjaalton> don't ask me
[05:29] <tjaalton> where do you get this crap hw?
[05:31] <furkan> probably from an archaeological dig :D
[05:31] <alkisg> Greece, that's all we have here :D
[05:32] <tjaalton> sorry to hear that
[05:32] <alkisg> For some reason normal operations like menus animations, scrolling windows, watching youtube etc is extremely slow on all the old graphics cards that I've tried
[05:33] <alkisg> With e.g. windows 2000, it isn't so; it's something specific to the linux implementation
[05:33] <alkisg> I don't know if it'd be worth it to try and troubleshoot it, to find which code paths are so slow etc...
[05:33] <alkisg> Difference like from e.g. 1 fps on linux, to 30 fps on windows
[05:34] <alkisg> Tested in 10 cards or so, so I don't think it's just driver-specific
[05:34] <furkan> have you tried the proprietary driver (if it's still supported)?
[05:34] <tjaalton> it's not
[05:34] <alkisg> Not recently (it would need 8.04), but I did try intel hardware as well
[05:34] <tjaalton> oh
[05:34] <tjaalton> nvidia
[05:35] <furkan> wait what, windows 2000?
[05:35] <furkan> what kind of CPU do you have?
[05:36] <alkisg> We're the IT support center of 300+ schools, we have a lot of CPUs available for testing,
[05:36] <furkan> because i occasionally use windows 7 and 10, and i find that window operations in linux are much more CPU intensive
[05:37] <furkan> like moving around a window can cause CPU usage to spike to 30-40%, resizing a window can cause 90%+ CPU usage
[05:37] <alkisg> so currently I'm testing with the windows-2000 -era hardware that they have, we're using them as linux thin clients
[05:37] <furkan> whereas with windows 7+, CPU usage is negligible
[05:38] <alkisg> Right, that's what I notice too
[05:38] <furkan> i think Xorg is just really inefficient
[05:38] <alkisg> But why? Too many buffers being copied around?
[05:38] <furkan> i don't know but i think that's part of what Wayland will fix
[05:39] <furkan> and Mir, on the Ubuntu side
[05:39] <alkisg> I really can't see why a putimage would need 20 seconds, last I tried implementing that in assembly back in 1995 we could easily do 60 fps...
[05:39] <furkan> i think there is a build of Ubuntu 16.04 available with Unity 8, maybe you can try it if it's compatible with your hardware
[05:40] <furkan> Unity 8 uses Mir
[05:40] <tjaalton> no it won't be
[05:40] <furkan> but it's a big work-in-progress right now
[05:40] <furkan> oh, my mistake then
[05:40] <alkisg> Would e.g. wayland or mir be compatible with intel 855?
[05:40] <tjaalton> at least I don't think nouveau has any support for ancient hw
[05:40] <tjaalton> alkisg: no idea
[05:41] <alkisg> ...or nouveau + geforce 400mx, stuff like that
[05:45] <tjaalton> i don't know if it needs more than just kms support
[05:46] <tjaalton> first thing to check is if nouveau is used
[05:46] <tjaalton> the kernel module
[05:47] <alkisg> In e.g. 16.04 and geforce 400mx, it is... I'll download a wayland or mir cd to test with...
[05:48] <tjaalton> with current debian sid on intel skylake & wayland, for instance resizing the terminal is abysmally slow
[05:49] <tjaalton> it's like 2fps
[05:50] <alkisg> Meh :)
[05:50] <alkisg> Another idea could be vnc@directfb to reuse those old clients... maybe it would be faster...
[05:50] <furkan> alkisg: i wonder if you guys would just be better off buying raspberry pis
[05:51] <furkan> raspberry pi 3 might be more powerful than your hardware, and consumes much less power
[05:51] <furkan> not sure how expensive electricity is over there, and how much it would offset the cost
[05:52] <alkisg> School eletric bills are paid centrally, so they don't care about that
[05:52] <alkisg> When we do have 100€ per client, we're upgrading P4's with something like ASROCK QC5000M motherboard + 4 GB RAM
[05:52] <alkisg> (all in one, 1900 passmark score for its kabini cpu)
[05:52] <alkisg> It's like 100 times faster than raspberry pi 3
[05:52] <furkan> ok i see, yeah kabini and 4GB RAM is better than rpi for sure
[05:54] <furkan> do you use ubuntu with the kabini boxes?
[05:55] <alkisg> so far we've been using equivalent intel-based boards (with IDE connectors), but they're not available anymore, so we ordered our first kabini one some days ago, it hasn't arrived yet
[05:55] <alkisg> We'll start testing it in a week or so
[05:55] <furkan> oh ok, i have a kabini box running ubuntu and it works really nicely
[05:56] <alkisg> Some teacher reported that his recent amd board didn't work with 64bit ubuntu after 14.10, and he needed 32bit instead
[05:56] <alkisg> (usb + lan didn't work at all on the live CDs etc)
[05:58] <furkan> that could be for any number of reasons... i remember i had an issue with an intel machine where the onboard Realtek LAN wasn't working properly, and it's because for some reason the wrong kernel module was being loaded
[05:58] <furkan> i built the driver from source and it worked fine after that
[06:09] <alkisg> Haha ok s3virge wins, 4 reps @ 15587.4967 msec (     0.1/sec): PutImage XY 500x500 square
[06:10] <alkisg> That's like one putimage per hour :D
[06:22]  * alkisg is trying to find some ancient graphics card that goes faster in debian wheezy (before xaa was killed) compared to ubuntu xenial... and can't find any!!!
[06:48] <tjaalton> furkan: it wasn't too hard to backport the font fixes afterall
[06:48] <tjaalton> seems to work
[06:49] <furkan> oh, nice :)
[06:50] <furkan> did you still want me to file that bug report? i was still going to do it a bit later
[07:05] <tjaalton> please
[07:21] <furkan> tjaalton: done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1555960
[07:21] <furkan> i could have sworn that somewhere on that page there was an option to indicate that an upstream fix has been committed
[07:21] <furkan> but i can't find it
[07:22] <tjaalton> thx
[07:22] <furkan> np
[07:23] <furkan> glamor performance is really coming along nicely, it's been getting faster with every xorg release
[07:25] <tjaalton> i was meant to let skylake fall back to modesetting+glamor but other bugs prevent that
[07:25] <furkan> i'm looking forward to 1.19, it looks like eric put in some pretty nice improvements while doing his work on the raspberry pi driver
[07:40] <tjaalton> uploaded
[07:47] <furkan> to x-staging?
[07:47] <tjaalton> no
[07:47] <tjaalton> xenial
[07:47] <tjaalton> the bugfix i mean
[07:47] <furkan> hmm maybe it hasn't propagated to my mirror yet
[07:48] <tjaalton> lucky if it has even built yet..
[07:48] <tjaalton> it'll take a day to hit your mirror
[07:48] <furkan> oh haha
[07:50] <furkan> btw remember when you said i must have not updated for a quite a while
[07:50] <furkan> the mirror i was using hasn't been updated since mid-february
[07:50] <tjaalton> same thing with fi.a.u.c
[07:50] <furkan> and i think that might be the most popular mirror around here
[07:50] <furkan> (hosted at a university nearby)
[07:53] <furkan> come to think of it, i think that might be the mirror being used in our lab, so we might not have been getting security updates for the past month :o
[07:53]  * furkan ssh's in
[07:53] <tjaalton> I hope you use security.u.c
[07:53] <tjaalton> as everyone should
[07:54] <furkan> what's that?
[07:54] <tjaalton> security.ubuntu.com
[07:54] <tjaalton> see sources.list
[07:55] <furkan> oh ok
[07:55] <furkan> checking now, we use an apt-cacher
[07:55] <furkan> looks like we use the generic ca.archive.ubuntu.com mirror
[07:56] <furkan> are you suggesting that i add a separate line for security.ubuntu.com?
[07:57] <tjaalton> no
[07:57] <tjaalton> should have already
[07:57] <tjaalton> even if you use a mirror the default sources.list uses security.u.c for security updates
[07:57] <tjaalton> unless you've fumbled that
[07:58] <furkan> i'm gonna pastebin this to make sure, i'm not the one who set up this particular server
[07:58] <tjaalton> i'm talking about the client
[07:58] <tjaalton> i don't care what you mirror :)
[07:58] <furkan> oh this server is acting as the apt-cacher for all the computers in the lab
[07:58] <tjaalton> k
[07:58] <furkan> http://pastebin.com/M9QwcPJV
[07:59] <furkan> i don't see "security" anywhere in here
[07:59] <furkan> well there is trusty-security, but points to ca.archive.u.c
[07:59] <tjaalton> i don't know how apt cacher works
[07:59] <furkan> that's just the sources.list file
[07:59] <furkan> apt-cacher just sets up an HTTP server and serves the cached packages
[08:00] <tjaalton> then you can hit issues like mentioned
[08:00] <furkan> ok i see, i'm looking at my sources.list at home and i see the difference
[08:00] <furkan> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-security multiverse main universe restricted
[08:01] <furkan> i will modify the server, thanks for the heads up
[08:01] <furkan> basically all the clients have their source.list set up to point to the apt-cacher
[08:01] <furkan> and the apt-cacher uses its own sources.list to retrieve/cache the packages and serve them to the others
[08:03] <tjaalton> ok
[08:03] <tjaalton> I just host a local mirror
[08:03] <tjaalton> of debian & ubuntu