[08:07] <awilkins> OK....... T460s or Carbon X1   ?
[08:10] <awilkins> ANd : Oh, this isn't sinister and evil AT ALL : http://www.computerweekly.com/news/4500278518/New-UK-law-will-criminalise-failure-to-hack-on-demand
[08:12] <diddledan> awilkins, eek
[08:12] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzpW10DPHeQ <-- the 5th computer-vs-human game of GO is nearing the finish line
[08:13] <awilkins> Speaking as someone who wants to make an electronic health records system potentially so secure that only the patient can access it, that makes me want to move to Sweden.
[08:13] <awilkins> The hacking thing, not AlphaGo
[08:13] <awilkins> That makes me want to move to the Culture
[08:13] <diddledan> awilkins, yeah the IP bill seems a lot worse than everyone feared it would it
[08:13] <diddledan> be*
[08:13] <awilkins> Teach a deep learning computer to govern the world in peace and prosperity next, Google.
[08:15] <awilkins> The vagueness in the IPB is being filled out with the sinister that was previously being kept behind the curtain
[08:16] <diddledan> it's already illegal to not incriminate yourself by witholding your own encryption keys
[08:46] <diplo> Very scary stuff awilkins, I don't want to live here anymore :/
[08:48] <Myrtti> diplo: newsflash: not many places are any better
[08:49] <Oli> Iceland looks tempting.
[08:49] <diplo> Oh I know that!
[08:49] <diplo> I was aabout to say that Oli :)
[08:49] <awilkins> Hence the Culture...
[08:49] <awilkins> I think Banks said once it started as a bunch of orbital settlements that wanted to break away from their tyrannical planet-based masters....
[08:49] <diplo> But the IPBill is going way way way way further than most other places
[08:50] <Myrtti> I long dreamed that we'd move to Finland once kids are old enough to start school. Looks like the most tempting reason for moving there, education, is being fed to the wolves. There goes that dream then
[08:51] <diplo> I'd like to live there too... but with my kids it's never going to happen
[08:52] <awilkins> Myrtti, Whaat, I heard all these good things about how awesome Finland's education system was
[08:52] <awilkins> I presume it costs money or something and the rich people can't be having that?
[08:53] <awilkins> Funny how as GDP goes up, we need more and more cuts to pay for tax breaks for those in the upper strata of society.
[08:53] <Myrtti> awilkins: well yes, the rightwing government is making cuts that undermime the quality of university studies, and even if that's an issue to my kids in 20 years, it affects the students studying to be teachers sooner
[08:54] <Oli> The main thing about the UK at the moment is if we're so broke that we're privatising the NHS, withdrawing welfare from people with spare rooms, making severely disabled people prove they're still severely disabled every 6 months... Why aren't we just paying a bit more tax? I can't be the only person who'd happily pay an extra 5%-10% now if that meant there'd still be a hospital when I need...
[08:54] <Oli> ...it in 20 years time.
[08:54] <awilkins> Oli, Because that's literally the aim of the incumbent government - they want private to be the only option in 20 years time
[08:54] <Myrtti> Oli: BUUUUUUTTT tories
[08:55] <Myrtti> because USA health care works so well
[08:55] <Oli> Well. I wish they wouldn't.
[08:55] <awilkins> Latest budget cut : £1.2B from 600,000 disabled people.
[08:55] <awilkins> To pay for a hike in the higher rate tax band
[08:55] <diddledan> USA has universal healthcare for gunshot wounds
[08:55] <awilkins> £2,000 from each disabled person so that the 17% with the highest incomes in this country can get an extra £200 a year
[08:55] <Oli> Why don't we just incinerate all the disabled people then? Surely that's where they're going with this.
[08:56] <awilkins> Speaking as someone who's usually in that income bracket, that disgusts me.
[08:56] <diddledan> Oli, what a good idea. you should tell your tory MP about that
[08:56] <diplo> I look away for 2 minutes and I've lost the convo :D
[08:57] <diddledan> diplo, it's right here ^^^^
[08:57] <awilkins> Pertinent documentary footage : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg
[08:57] <diplo> I'm slow at reading today :) full of man flu :D
[08:57] <Oli> diddledan: I'm from Norfolk, so I don't have to look far for a Tory MP. He's probably on a benefit cheat hunt right now. They're only allowed to use the dogs for scenting though.
[08:59] <awilkins> I'm in a ward that the Tory got into by 700 votes
[09:00] <awilkins> I'm ashamed to say I voted for one of the left-wing protest parties because I thought it was a safe Labour seat, but I think the 'kippers swung it for the Tories around here
[09:00] <Oli> UKIP did that for a lot of places.
[09:00] <awilkins> I get the feeling my Mother in law is a kipper
[09:00] <diddledan> I've got Maria Miller as my MP IIRC
[09:01] <awilkins> Whenever we discuss the health service, her go-to is that immigrants are wrecking it
[09:01] <diddledan> gah
[09:01] <awilkins> (or : keeping it running, 26% of doctors are immigrants...)
[09:01] <Oli> Immigrants ARE the health service. Indeed.
[09:02] <Oli> When you make it cost £50k to become a doctor here, don't be surprised when you have to start shipping them in.
[09:02] <diddledan> BREAKING NEWS: lee sedol resigned
[09:02] <Oli> And start making trainee nurses pay tuition AND work for nothing.
[09:02] <diddledan> 4-1 to the terminators
[09:03] <awilkins> That nurses one is a doozy
[09:03] <awilkins> I knew a lot of student nurses when I was a student doc
[09:04] <awilkins> Their training is basically "work as a nurse only ask questions when you don't know something"
[09:04] <diddledan> the NHS staff are the best people that are treated like the worst
[09:04] <awilkins> In other words, it's an apprenticeship. And they're not even paying them like apprentices.
[09:04] <Myrtti> I love NHS. NHS is great.
[09:04] <diddledan> ditto, Myrtti
[09:05] <Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/23/finland-health-system-failing-welfare-state-high-taxes
[09:05] <diddledan> everyone I've met in the NHS have been nothing but awesome to me, even when I have done silly things to myself through being a nutter
[09:06] <awilkins> Spending on health improves the economy, by what, 2.5x what you spent on it?
[09:07] <Oli> Nah, spend more money on intercepting naked snapchats.
[09:07] <diddledan> yey winkypic
[09:07] <awilkins> Myrtti, That Finland thing, they spend 7% of GDP compared to the UK at 8%?  The UK spending *peaked* at 8.8% in 2009... it's been going downhill since then, predicted 7.2% this year.
[09:08] <awilkins> I don't know what kind of private/public mix Finland has but 7% is way too low even for an entirely public service.
[09:08] <diddledan> awilkins, because "Labour misspending"!
[09:09] <awilkins> diddledan, The economy is recovering - it's in growth... and the GDP we spend on the NHS can't even remain static....
[09:09] <awilkins> Recovery for the rich, penury for the rest of us.
[09:09] <Oli> Love the top comment though. "Terrible picture you painted. A country where only one out of the three is failing."
[09:09] <Myrtti> awilkins: but UK has the benefit of numbers on it's side, and distances aren't great. They're centralising *everything* healthcare in there and it's just getting worse
[09:09] <diddledan> awilkins, but. but. austerity!
[09:10] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:10] <bashrc> good tzag
[09:10] <diddledan> we need to stop spending money on social things because they prevent a decent war-fund
[09:11] <bashrc> funny how they have no problem finding money for war or mass surveillance
[09:11] <diddledan> of course the more wars we can start the better!
[09:12] <Myrtti> I should go change my clothes and get some brekkie, today is "receive all the parcels day" and it'd be nice to greet the postie in something else than a nightshirt
[09:12] <bashrc> and those nuclear submarines, even though the cold war ended however many decades ago
[09:12] <diddledan> bashrc, you shouldn't worry about mass surveillance if you aren't doing norty things
[09:12] <Myrtti> bashrc: buuut nukes get rid of al'qaida!
[09:12] <Myrtti> fer realz
[09:13] <diddledan> Myrtti, TOYS!
[09:13] <diddledan> parcels = fun shiny
[09:13] <Myrtti> diddledan: mostly stuff for the car that I have no joy over :-|
[09:13] <diddledan> bah
[09:14] <Myrtti> https://www.anker.com/products/A3351011 one of the things
[09:15] <Oli> That's nice and cheap. Hmm. Tempting.
[09:15] <Myrtti> yeah, it's better than the HTC bobble that we have now
[09:15] <Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluedio-Shooting-Bluetooth-headphones-wireless/dp/B00Q2VIW9M/ and this, which I will enjoy
[09:16] <Myrtti> not using it but enjoying the naps I can have on the sofa while dsample is watching something dismally bad and noisy on the telly
[09:18] <Myrtti> last weekend I fell asleep watching tinykittens livestream. Woke up fifteen minutes later when he had put Continuum or something on and it was LOUD and BANGY
[09:24] <awilkins> I've get_iplayered all the episodes of Meet the Kittens from the BBC when I need something cute
[09:30] <Myrtti> http://livestream.com/tinykittens/savina
[09:31] <Oli> Blimey, they are tiny.
[09:32] <Myrtti> there were four but one failed to thrive and had to be helped over the rainbow bridge :-(
[09:32] <Oli> :(
[09:32] <Oli> What's the best channel for naughty kittens these days?
[09:34] <Oli> http://livestream.com/accounts/3326724/Tribeca looks like it might be chaos when they're not all asleep.
[09:49] <awilkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/kittens-get-new-homes
[09:49] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy True Confessions Day! 😃
[09:51] <Oli> Ermagerhd
[09:56] <bigcalm> Damn this flash requirement
[09:57] <diddledan> JamesTait, lies!
[09:57]  * diddledan awaits davmor2
[09:57] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:57] <diddledan> allo o/
[09:59] <davmor2> diddledan, JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhuyJKz395k easy
[10:01] <davmor2> and Morning all
[10:02] <davmor2> diddledan: also Morning head song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99KH0TR-J4 JamesTait you'll appreciate that one too
[10:16] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:22] <JamesTait> davmor2, 👍 nice!
[10:45] <ujjain> Can somebody fix any English mistakes in this phrase? >> "My little brother (22) would love to do his internship in Finance or Accounting abroad. The United States (J-1 Visa) and London would either be great! Can anybody give us some tips?"
[10:46] <ujjain> looks more or less fine English right?
[10:47] <diplo> Yep, although maybe "London, either of these locations would be great" ?
[10:48] <popey> "My 22 year-old little brother"
[10:49] <ujjain> My 22 year-old little brother would love to do his internship in Finance or Accounting abroad. The United States (J-1 Visa) and London, either of these locations would be great! Can anybody give us some tips?
[10:49] <ujjain> "and London" or "or London"?
[10:49] <diplo> or london I'd say
[10:49] <ujjain> thanks a lot
[10:49] <diplo> Otherwise you're saying that he'd like to do it both
[10:51] <ujjain> ah right, makes sense.
[10:51] <ujjain> I work with too many Polish people and I'm not an English native. Sometimes I feel my English isn't really improving.
[10:52] <ujjain> But thanks a lot diplo and popey! :)
[10:54] <popey> To be fair there was nothing wrong with your phrase
[10:54] <popey> We were just nit-picking
[10:55] <diplo> Yep, totally understandable :)
[11:06] <ujjain> hihi, thanks! I heard my native English colleague use the words loft and pedestal. I silently looked up the words in the dictionary online.
[11:17] <bigcalm> :D
[11:18] <bigcalm> Loft is more of an Americanism, I'd say. British English would more likely use attic
[11:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: Some people use the word Loft as a living space in and attic and the word attic is reserved for storage space in the roof instead :)
[11:28] <bigcalm> Hummm, okay
[11:28] <bigcalm> I can only speak from experience
[11:28] <popey> Now you've said both words, i can't remember which one I use.
[11:28] <bigcalm> One can still have lofty aspirations
[11:29] <bigcalm> popey: there's a poll that's missing your input :)
[11:29] <Seeker`> I use "Loft"
[11:32] <popey> I know
[11:32] <bigcalm> I wonder if a) the Watercress Line has a lost property, and b) how long they keep things if they do
[11:32] <bigcalm> It would be nice to get my glasses back that I left on the train last year
[11:32] <popey> I think you kinda needed to ask them last year
[11:33] <popey> daviey got his phone back the next day
[11:33] <bigcalm> Lucky him
[11:33] <bigcalm> I'm too apathetic for my own good. I used it as an excuse to get a new pair of specs :D
[11:38] <bashrc> question: in 16.04 will old kernel versions get cleared out automatically?
[11:53] <davmor2> bashrc: they did in wily iirc
[11:54] <davmor2> bashrc: and if not they are marked for autoremove so you can just run && sudo apt autoremove and they are gone
[12:17] <bashrc> oh that's good. I asked elsewhere and apparently you can also use bleachbit
[13:49] <ujjain> is there something to do this thursay with st patricksday in london? or the party of sunday was it?
[14:09] <awilkins> Watching the IPB debate. Someone just pulled a "think of the children".
[14:10] <MooDoo> ipb?
[14:10] <MooDoo> ignore that
[14:11] <brobostigon> investigatory powers bil.
[14:11] <MooDoo> yeah just realised
[14:12] <brobostigon> its a waste anyway, as a good proportion of the traffic on the internet is encrypted anyway, and there is nothing they can do to read anyway.
[14:13] <brobostigon> and techniclly, there is nothing they can do,
[14:14] <MooDoo> until the ISP's are required to put back doors in
[14:15] <awilkins> Or the CAs are required to cede their private keys
[14:15] <awilkins> Or the NSA infiltrates a SIM manufacturer covering 1/3rd of SIM cards ... ooops
[14:16] <brobostigon> or they find a more efficienct and quicker way to break rsa/ecc etc.
[14:18] <brobostigon> this is why i think hw like the yubikey is interesting, you can store your private keys on them, and they cant be bruteforced off,
[20:23] <foobarry> wow ubuntu mate is starting to look a lot like elementary
[20:42] <daftykins> how-so?
[20:43] <ali1234> the default layout has a dock?
[20:43] <ali1234> actually i'm not even sure if that's true
[20:48] <daftykins> i thought it was still the gnome 2 looking one
[20:55] <foobarry> client side decoration, dock, etc
[20:55] <foobarry> gtk header bars
[20:56] <foobarry> even using plank https://plus.google.com/+MartinWimpress/posts/aibudHBGxqT
[20:57] <foobarry> in fact the screenshot looks very similar to my elementary. except for the hot corners, shadows, and i don't know how slick the multiple desktops are in mate
[20:57] <foobarry> oh, shadows are in the screenshot, plus compositing
[21:26] <diddledan> when did "the fappening" get renamed to "celebgate"? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35817814
[21:27] <zmoylan-pi> when the bbc didn't want to run a sidebar explaining fap?
[21:28]  * daftykins chuckles
[21:29] <daftykins> diddledan: that surface continues to perplex, i've got to get on the support line to Microsoft soon ¬_¬
[21:29] <diddledan> gah
[21:29] <diddledan> sucky nuts
[21:29] <daftykins> the thing did 24hrs barely dropping 5% battery, asleep, then the next morning i found it dead
[21:29] <diddledan> o_O
[21:29] <daftykins> client says it'll be flat whenever she reaches to use it
[21:29] <diddledan> that's backasswards
[21:29] <zmoylan-pi> calling ms for support... haven't done that since win 95...
[21:29] <daftykins> :D i've never done it for an OS
[21:29] <diddledan> I didn't know MS had a support line
[21:30] <daftykins> i got a # from the US # that's on a reddit page
[21:30] <daftykins> so you know, direct as usual
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> i did it for qbx, vb and dos and windows
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> the amount of times they lied to me...
[21:30] <daftykins> *gasp*
[21:30] <daftykins> they wouldn't!?
[21:31] <diddledan> MS <3 Linux
[21:32] <zmoylan-pi> my favourite was in days of windows 3.1. we were running excel in windows in enhanced mode on 286 ps/2 with intel above board that added 4mb of expanded memory (to a 286) and running novell on same computer as headless server
[21:33] <zmoylan-pi> excel kept reporting out of memory so i ended up ringing ms after trying many many things
[21:33] <zmoylan-pi> and when i told them the configuration of a 286 with expanded memory not extended memory their response was 'no it isn't'
[21:34] <zmoylan-pi> couldn't get them to acknowledge the computers existence so got nowhere
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> in the end it was the video driver colour depth causing the error
[21:35] <daftykins> it was too low?
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> too high.
[21:35] <daftykins> they had colours back then!?
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> it was trying to do 256 colours but when i pushed it back to 16 colours it was ok
[21:36] <daftykins> woohoo :>
[21:36] <zmoylan-pi> with qbx they also lied to me that their was a problem with their compiler handling com ports.  found out 10 years later there was a patch that fixed the bug when i called them
[21:37] <zmoylan-pi> not THAT annoyed me
[21:37] <daftykins> i'm impressed you remembered after 10 years!
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> i will revenge!! :-D
[21:39] <zmoylan-pi> so i use every opportunity to encourage people NOT to buy/use ms even if i have to provide free support to do so
[21:41] <daftykins> i'm dealing with an amusing one where a client is playing 'find the license key' at the moment
[21:41] <zmoylan-pi> i love how they put them on bottom of laptops were they wear off when you go looking...
[21:42] <daftykins> actually they have been in the EFI for years now
[21:42] <zmoylan-pi> qr7 something something something... :-)
[21:42] <daftykins> but mmm, those older gen ones being visible to others is crazy
[21:43] <zmoylan-pi> and the O/0 B/8 been identical in the font used...
[21:44] <daftykins> this is for Office though, no problems with Windows these days ;)
[21:44] <daftykins> in fact 10 installs are so quick i'm not making as much money!
[21:49] <zmoylan-pi> played with my first w10 system last week.  trying to decouple the user account from the email.  the user wants to enter his password when email is launched.  w10 really doesn't want to do that
[21:49] <daftykins> that sounds like it'd require that user to be using the built in rubbish
[21:49] <daftykins> and also sounds like the user account is a 'microsoft account' not a local one, most are getting tricked into that
[21:49] <zmoylan-pi> man w10 is slow.  on 8.1 this lenovo was really quite fast but since the upgrade it crawls
[21:50] <diddledan> you should try vista
[21:50] <daftykins> 10 is faster than both 8.x and 7, so it needs a clean run
[21:50] <daftykins> upgrades never work, you worked in IT you should know that :D
[21:51] <zmoylan-pi> it happened when he upgrade from w7 laptop to win8 and i decoupled it.  you can set up local account but then you have to migrate all the data from old account to the new one
[21:51] <daftykins> yip
[21:52] <daftykins> i wonder if a move of %appdata% cheats it :D probably not
[21:52] <zmoylan-pi> w10 kinda allows it but the new apps seem designed for dummies who always want to be logged in
[21:52] <daftykins> *nod* if you log into a single app you have to be careful not to hit the 'convert to MS account' and go for 'sign into this app only'
[21:53] <zmoylan-pi> first time i had this migration silliness it wouldn't even allow me to copy files from one account to another as the ownership cocked up.  in end i copied files to ipod classic which stripped the rights of file :-)
[21:54] <daftykins> you Loonix folk sure do get into funny fights in Windows land
[21:54] <daftykins> certainly never get permissions woes in Loonix land
[21:54]  * daftykins whistles
[21:54] <zmoylan-pi> which is why any time i go near a windows computer there's a hammer nearby... :-)
[21:55] <daftykins> so good upgrading my uncles machines to SSDs and 8GB RAM from 4GB, it's making a huge difference
[21:55] <daftykins> factory installs on slow mechanical disks, blech
[21:56]  * zmoylan-pi banishes daftykins to install win95 from floppies for punishment....
[21:56] <daftykins> hey i did some early office from 25 floppies many a time
[21:56] <daftykins> one had to have the eject button held in ever so slightly to be read
[21:56] <zmoylan-pi> i did that twice.  and thus learned to make cd roms work _everywhere_ so i never had to do it again
[21:56] <daftykins> :D
[21:57] <daftykins> seem to recall, with my lesser experience of the time, that 98 was the first to do direct CD boot?
[21:57] <zmoylan-pi> in some cases using dos peer to peer networks to share a parallel cd drive to a laptop that had a lpt port that wouldn't work