[00:19] <sakrecoer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15398537/ 
[00:20] <sakrecoer> just to make sure i'm not doing it wrong this time..
[00:21] <sakrecoer> i removed -mono from desktop as zequence and kryten discussed eariler today (15th mar 2016)
[00:21] <kryten> We did?
[00:23] <sakrecoer> yes 09:22
[00:24] <sakrecoer> in reply to zequence at 02:15
[00:28] <sakrecoer> or did i missunderstand, kryten ?
[00:29] <kryten> That's basically to opposing statements, with a reference to an earlier one, with no follow-up - so it's not exactly that clear to me right now whether to include -mono there as well or not. :P
[00:30] <sakrecoer> ok, how is the margin until the metas.. ehm "go through" again since the delicous ross commit?
[00:30] <kryten> So we should probably clear that up properly before pushing any changes anywhere.
[00:30] <sakrecoer> sure, of course!
[00:33] <kryten> Also, we still have to patch up livecd-rootfs regarding the 'font-meta' → 'fonts' change anyway.
[00:39] <kryten> (For reference: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L350 )
[08:31] <zequence> sakrecoer: After adding the new font, I was told that Xubuntu only added -hinted. In our case, we also like to add extra fonts to our -fonts meta, so that is why the -mono font could be added there
[08:31] <zequence> We could even add the full thing to -fonts, if it makes sense for graphics people
[08:32] <zequence> That is the discussion we had a couple of weeks ago about the fonts.
[08:44] <kryten> zequence: But since -mono is really that small, and people might want to use it instead of the default mono font in other apps too, like the terminal and Mousepad...?
[09:01] <zequence> kryten: My policy has been not to make that kind of changes to desktop. Just stay synced with Xubuntu
[09:02] <zequence> If we change one little detail here or there - no big deal though
[09:02] <zequence> I guess mostly it is the configuration of the XFCE specific stuff that I don't want to start messing with.
[09:03] <zequence> Think I've said this in the past. If someone is willing to put a lot of time and energy on the desktop, we could have our own custom setup - but that will require more than just a change here or there.
[09:04] <zequence> Someone needs to be responsible for bug fixes and that sort of thing as well
[09:04] <zequence> ..and there needs to be a well formed plan, first of all
[09:04] <zequence> don't think the -mono font is going to hurt anyone
[09:05] <zequence> I'm not as concerned about the font as I am about the size. We should be able to make a desktop for everyone, not just people with good eye sight
[09:06] <zequence> I could take this up with Xubuntu. But, I need to do some testing first.
[09:16] <kryten> Ftm, apart from at least leaving the user the option to easily choose the monospace font in line of the general one, I personally can't see the readability issues that made some in the Xubuntu team to decide against it as the default font for the mentioned apps - I've been using it without any issues on my old CRT even.
[09:20] <zequence> I would have to agree that a mono font is probably not in everyones interest
[09:20] <kryten> Umm, those are monospace font apps.
[09:21] <kryten> So they're using a monospace font anyway - just another one.
[09:24] <zequence> Ah, those two, right
[09:25] <zequence> No mono on those two?
[09:25] <zequence> I haven't checked myself, tbh
[09:30] <kryten> They're using DejaVu Sans Mono currently.
[09:33] <zequence> ok
[09:34] <kryten> So, I'm not arguing to set that as default for those as well, just to make it available by default.
[09:40] <zequence> kryten: Maybe you and sakrecoer can have a look at this stuff. For me, I don't really care about the specifics, as long as the people making the changes have good reason to do so
[09:42] <zequence> And, as reference, there is a difference between what any individual would like as compared to what the studio users need and require
[09:53] <sakrecoer> i think its a very nice detail, to have terminal match the rest of the desktop. and since it is small and doesn't seem to be to much pain to achieve, i'd very much like to have it there
[09:54] <zequence> I'll leave it up to you then
[10:01] <sakrecoer> kryten: looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L350 and feeling a mix of "bring it on!:)" and "wuuut" :D
[10:06] <kryten> Well, it's a tiny change anyway, only how best to approach it, and get the people responsible to change sometime soon it too. :P
[10:07] <kryten> * it sometime soon...
[10:10] <kryten> We could start by prodding it to any of the still relevant members of the CD Image team ( https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+members )in -release, before potentially going for an MP.
[10:12] <kryten> Either way, that's what makes the image builds fail currently.
[10:15] <kryten> (Of course, that'd be better any of you two.)
[10:20] <sakrecoer> prodding? producing? is the font making the image fail?
[10:23] <kryten> The fonts seed rename, yes.  And by that I basically mean ask people - and infinity would be my first choice there.
[10:23] <sakrecoer>  ok, prodding =  To jab or poke, as with a pointed object.
[10:24] <sakrecoer> hahaha.... i don't what is in my coffee today, but....? infinity?
[10:25] <kryten> LOL - I don't know either.  IRC nick of Adam Conrad.
[10:31] <zequence> infinity is the lead release manager for Ubuntu, working for Canonical
[10:32] <zequence> sakrecoer: Are you in #ubuntu-release, #ubuntu-devel?
[10:32] <zequence> If not, you should be
[10:32] <sakrecoer> ok :)
[10:33] <zequence> I think we should fix the problem ourselves if we can
[10:33] <zequence> I haven't looked closely on the build failure, but if it is because of problems in our metas or seeds, we can fix that pretty easily ourselves
[10:35] <sakrecoer> ok, thats good. with a little help from our good kryten, i should be able to resolve this. so you can focus on those rocks you have rolling zequence 
[10:35] <kryten> zequence: Well, we could only fix it ourselves by renaming the fonts seed back. :P
[10:36] <zequence> kryten: Why is that?
[10:36] <kryten> Did you have a look at the link I posted earlier?
[10:36] <kryten> Still says "font-meta".
[10:36] <kryten> So,...
[10:37] <zequence> Ah, right
[10:37] <zequence> Let me ask someone at -release about that, then
[10:40] <zequence> But, the ubuntustudio-font-meta should still work though, shouldn't it?
[10:41] <zequence> Anyway, I'll be back later
[10:41] <kryten> The package yes, the task not.
[10:42] <zequence> I knew that changing names would mean a lot of work. Didn't realize this though.
[10:43] <zequence> In many situations, you just want to go with the original name, no matter how pedantic you are :)
[10:43] <kryten> Well, it's still trivial enough though.
[10:44] <kryten> It's just a bit more effort if it involves other people/teams too, of course.
[10:45] <zequence> kryten: You want to continue helping out with studio development? I could add you to the dev team, if you want
[10:45] <kryten> Yes, I'd very much love that. :)
[10:47] <zequence> kryten: Ok. You seem to know your way around the sources. Just don't make changes unless: 1) it's a clear bug fix 2) it's in a feature definition 3) me or sakrecoer are informed (I should write this down somewhere as a guide line for developers)
[10:48] <zequence> sakrecoer: cjwatson fixed the live build config for us
[10:48] <kryten> Yes, of course - I'm not that crazy. :D
[10:49] <zequence> sakrecoer: cjwatson is an extremely helpful guy who has had a bit too much to do, and for that reason I try not to bother him
[10:49] <kryten> zequence: Awesome, that was quick indeed. \o/
[10:49] <zequence> I think cjwatson wrote ubiquity, originally. He's a maintainer of GRUB and stuff like that.
[10:49] <zequence> Also works for Canonical
[10:50] <sakrecoer> double yay \:D/ 
[10:50] <sakrecoer> welcome to team kryten!! 
[10:50] <kryten> Thanks. :)
[10:51] <sakrecoer> and great the cjwatson input!
[10:52] <zequence> infinity is also very, very helpful. But, I generally don't ask people directly these days. I put out a question on a channel, and wait
[10:52] <sakrecoer> just let me get clear on what is what: cjwatson, fixed the things needed to be fixed due to that name-change?.... (.. )?
[10:53] <zequence> yes, he changed the configs in the file that kryten posted before http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L350
[10:53] <sakrecoer> i understand zequence . respect for other people priorities is something i'd be peaky on too...
[10:57] <zequence> kryten: This is your LP page, right? https://launchpad.net/~krytarik
[10:57] <kryten> Yep.
[11:01] <zequence> kryten: you're in. I sent a short welcome to the team post on the mail list as well, to inform others
[11:02] <kryten> Thanks - yes, ok. :3
[11:02] <kryten> :D
[11:04] <zequence> kryten: Have you tried making your own image builds?
[11:04] <kryten> Wow, nope. :D
[11:05] <zequence> I was trying to replicate the Ubuntu method a couple of years ago. Would be good to have in place when experimenting with ubiquity plugins and additional DE support
[11:05] <kryten> Not really feasible with an ancient machine like mine either. :P
[11:05] <zequence> Don't think you need so much power. But, a server is nice to have.
[16:46] <sakrecoer> i often recieve doubles of bug repports. and i just got this ML brought to my attention by kryten: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-dev/
[16:52] <zequence> sakrecoer: Yes, it was created at some point. If you set up a mail list filter, you should get those in a different mail box
[16:53] <kryten> That is to say, any team member that's subscribed to that ML not only gets the LP notifications sent to it individually, due to being in the team, but also via the ML - and there doesn't seem to be anything else sent to it than those LP notifications.  And since we have the usual ubuntu-studio-devel ML anyway, I think it'd make sense to just close that one.
[16:54] <zequence> True
[16:55] <OvenWerk1> kryten: I think the reason the ML was set up was to allert us to a bug in one of the packages we include that was created by someone outside of our team so we did not miss it.
[16:55] <zequence> We now have ubuntustudio-bugs team for bug notifications
[16:56] <zequence> I deactivated it
[16:57] <kryten> \o/ - thanks.
[16:58] <sakrecoer> :) great! i already had a filter, but it wouldn't remove doubles...
[16:58] <sakrecoer> *have even
[16:58] <zequence> Might be a good idea to make the -dev team subscribed to our packages in launchpad
[16:58] <zequence> Was going to have a look at that, but LP is not responding suddenly
[16:59] <zequence> About the bug 427500
[16:59] <zequence> Don't think there is a pd package
[16:59] <zequence> I'd mark it invalid, but LP seems to have choked
[17:01] <zequence> They really wanted to keep our ML
[17:01] <kryten> lol
[17:03] <zequence> bb later this evening