[07:42] there was an update to apt yesterday(ish) ... includes * methods/gpgv: Reject weak digest algorithms [07:43] that'll be any ppa that I've got :p http://paste.ubuntu.com/15413340/ [07:47] flocculant: i think the mail about the change said it would first only issue warnings for weak algorithms, and later (june?july?) issue errors... [07:47] it should still work [07:48] i guess that need re-signing of all launchpad ppas then =) [07:48] yea still does - or I assume so [07:53] dkessel: I guess so - I wonder how many ppa's there are lol [08:17] flocculant: only 23k :D https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter= [08:17] ha ha ha [08:17] I bet 22k are dead :p [09:05] Yeah just warnings so far. And, LP 1331914 [09:05] Launchpad bug 1331914 in Launchpad itself "Allow users to re-generate a PPA signing key" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1331914 [09:26] flocculant: BTW, .8 will make that warning much more clear. [14:36] flocculant: seems like xubuntu upgrades to 16.04 just fine [14:37] well, just fine being, it doesn't crash like what davmor2 noticed; on xubuntu, running in qemu/libvirt [17:15] cyphermox: crashes in vbox [17:15] unless there have been updates since this time yesterday [17:16] cyphermox: also depends what you mean - 15.10 upgrades ok [17:21] right, but vbox is special [17:22] cyphermox: or qemu is ;) [17:22] I'm skipping it for now, because once we know upgrades in general work, then fixing some quirks of the virtualizer is easier-ish [17:22] I can try a hardware one over the weekend [17:22] well, hardware seemed to behave the same as qemu [17:23] got a trusty that I have only used once since 14.10 started development :p [17:23] unless it was a vanilla .4 install [17:25] cyphermox: I'll let you know how it goes [17:25] looks like it's .3 [17:44] cyphermox: before I do that - did it actually upgrade? [17:47] the what? [17:48] the 14.04 [17:48] well, to me things look like they're upgrading [17:48] I'm still waiting for my test to finish with screensaver disabled [17:48] oh ok - I assumed it was done and dusted not in progress :) [17:54] !team | meeting in 5 minutes ish ... [17:54] meeting in 5 minutes ish ...: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193 [18:01] #startmeeting [18:01] Meeting started Fri Mar 18 18:01:21 2016 UTC. The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:01] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [18:01] who's here for the meeting then? [18:01] o/ [18:01] hi kryten :) [18:01] Hi. :) [18:01] kind of [18:02] ok ... [18:02] eg. will be reading, but replies can be slow [18:02] right [18:02] knome, pleia2, can you please spread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-March/011082.html in our media channels [18:02] and afternoon all [18:02] hi slickymasterWork [18:03] so some are here - I'll crack on then [18:03] #topic Open Action Items [18:03] hard to find them [18:04] mmm [18:04] seems there are just me kryten and knome reading and replying slowly [18:05] :D [18:05] yes [18:05] this'll be quick then :) [18:05] hi, I'm here for the meeting [18:06] #subtopic Wallpaper Contest [18:06] further to the e-mail to the dev list - testing has been going on, we should (afaik) be ramping that up next week [18:06] #subtopic Slideshow [18:07] that got worked on - the new slideshow is there on images [18:07] #subtopic Gnome software [18:07] that's been agreed - the image includes gnome software now instead of usc [18:07] oh that's great [18:07] #topic Updates and Announcements [18:07] Do we nee specific tests on Gnome Software ? [18:08] slickymaster, tweeted [18:08] #subtopic Change to Strategy Document [18:08] flocculant, yep, planning on mon/tue announcement for contest [18:08] seems like the vote went through, i'll merge today [18:08] this had 4 positive votes in the last meeting - took that to mailing list - 3 more postive votes - passed [18:09] #topic Discussions [18:09] so of the 3 of us who are here from team - do we have time to work through them or not? [18:10] that's for kryten and knome to reply to :p [18:10] which ones? [18:10] i have time, but still slow to reply.. [18:11] the 3 live ones - pdf/beta and core [18:11] not sure we can deal with core [18:11] #subtopic Final Beta [18:11] easy one :p [18:11] We'll be calling for testing for this early next week [18:11] base stuff *should* be merged for final beta, but we'll see.. [18:12] as is the norm - now we've reached Final Beta we'll be including 'users' for that [18:12] ack [18:12] I'll be looking at where we are for upgrades - seems that the fails could be vbox related - unsurprisingly ... [18:13] #subtopic Core/Base image [18:13] base stuff *should* be merged for final beta, but we'll see.. [18:13] QA's position is that this is really close to the wire [18:13] yep [18:13] as discussed, we can release desktop normally and then postpone base until .1 [18:14] there was discussion amongst people about moving this back perhaps to 16.04.1 [18:14] if we want, that is [18:14] heh :) [18:14] yea [18:14] Hello everybody :) [18:14] not much we can really do here till there's something happened :) [18:14] hi Robin___ :) [18:14] flocculant, you can count on me if you need tests [18:14] and a belated hi Nairwolf too :) [18:15] A few months ago I applied to help with the translation of Xfce to Esperanto, but since then I have never received any message in return... Can somebody here please help me? [18:15] #subtopic PDF's in Documentation [18:15] Robin___: we're in the middle of a meeting - can you wait a while please :) [18:15] Okay, I will come back in a few hours :) [18:15] so currently pdf's fail to build with the docs [18:16] Robin___, 15 mins is fine [18:16] re: PDFs, we're looking to that with krytarik [18:16] yep [18:16] it's a "simple" file not found error [18:16] knome: ack [18:16] not sure why option #1 works locally and not with build, and option #2 the opposite [18:16] :) [18:16] the easy but hacky way is some symlinks [18:17] kryten: anything to add ? [18:17] Nope. [18:18] ok - I've nothing to add to it [18:18] thanks to all concerned in getting where we have with the updates though :) [18:19] knome: nothing to add more to that I assume [18:19] no [18:19] #topic Any other business [18:19] anyone got anything? [18:20] Maybe I've missed when you talked about the wallpaper contest, but we should launch it as soon as possible [18:20] you missed it :) [18:20] early next week [18:20] ok ;) [18:20] fine [18:21] ok - I'll wrap this up then [18:21] #topic Schedule next meeting [18:21] bluesabre to set up the next meeting [18:21] #endmeeting [18:21] Meeting ended Fri Mar 18 18:21:49 2016 UTC. [18:21] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-03-18-18.01.moin.txt [18:22] and may $deity have mercy on his soul :p [18:25] I see the meeting has ended... So, let me reask my question. Can somebody here please help me to become an Esperanto translator for Xfce? [18:26] logs are up [18:26] Robin___, xfce specifically or xubuntu generally? [18:26] I am currently using Xubuntu 15.10 in Esperanto and lots of the current strings are still in English [18:26] left pdf's and core on it for next time [18:27] I am already a translator for Ubuntu specifically, but I would also like to help with Xfce, which is part of Xubuntu [18:27] But Xfce is not managed on Launchpad, but on Transifex [18:31] bluesabre: I forwarded a mail to our list with talk of qt4 on it [18:32] Robin___, looking at it, you could join #xfce-dev if i happen to get a hold of somebody who's managing the xfce team(s) on transifex [18:33] Okay, let me resend my question there, thank you knome :) [18:34] flocculant, I'm reading your email about qt4, I don't understand everything. Why it's bad to have qt4 ? [18:35] Nairwolf, xubuntu uses the gtk toolkit, so we don't want qt on our images [18:39] ok, that makes sense, and can we delete easily qt dependencies on your images ? [18:39] knome: ty [18:40] Nairwolf, we aren't affected by the original mail in question, that's what flocculant is implying on his message [18:41] Nairwolf: this is why I forwarded it to us "We could make qt4 recommends them, but then they would be pulled in on other desktops environment where they are not needed ... how would other flavors feel about that?" [18:41] brb [18:43] okay, so flocculant, you have answered them that we are not agree with that ? [18:45] also, don't you think it would be great to have a specific testcase for gnome software ? [18:50] Nairwolf: I've not answered anyone - not my place - someone from our devs will see it [18:50] Nairwolf: re g-s, I would expect that ubuntu will test it [18:50] we never tested usc either [18:59] ok, so it's not our job to test g-s, okay [19:00] most of guy who works on xubuntu are in the Xubuntu Team, right ? [19:00] the xubuntu team or one of the subteams usually [19:14] ok [19:14] thank you knom [20:26] hi guys, have you already seen this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicfilesystems/+bug/990744dd [20:26] Launchpad bug 990744 in partman-basicfilesystems (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu installer says: The creation of swap space in partition failed" [High,Triaged] [20:56] yes [20:56] sometimes it gets seen [21:01] ok, it's a really annoying bug... [21:04] apparently so - you asked the same thing a while back :) [21:08] yes, it's true... Because I suspect this bug could occur if you have a windows machine, and you want to install xubuntu with the option "erase disk and install"... [21:09] maybe I'm wrong and it's specific with linux distribution because it seems related to swap partition. [21:11] Nairwolf, what are you exactly after with this discussion? [21:12] the bug is filed, we are aware of it and it's triaged and marked with high priority [21:15] I'm not sure how to have a nice workaround when I have this bug, and I would like to know how you deal with that. What I'm doing to fix it is "boot on the live session, use gparted to remove all installed partition, check "swapoff" for swap partition". When I've removed everything of my machine, it seems to work [21:15] today, it was the case, but few days ago, I couldn't install the daily image because of this bug, and I didn't find a workaround [21:16] then the result for the ISO tests should be failed with this bug in the critical field [21:17] Nairwolf: what you shouldn't expect is for *us* to fix this [21:17] I've never hit it - ever [21:18] I know 2 people who have - you and bluesabre :) [21:19] ok, the strategy document is pushed to the y-series branch for the docs [21:19] +changes [21:20] oh, I don't expect you fix that, I just wanted to know if you have this bug, how you deal with that [21:20] but it's okay, I think I have found a workaround tonight [21:20] as i tried to explain... you don't need to deal with that [21:20] if you can't finish the test with the instructions on the tracker, then the test fails [21:21] and you don't need to find a workaround to fix it [21:21] that's the whole point of having the option to fail a test [21:21] knome: will the changes not be in the xenial docs? [21:21] flocculant, we'll have to discuss that [21:21] the string freeze is gone, so it'd technically need an exception [21:22] which is not a problem per se [21:22] knome, sorry, I think I don't speak correctly. When I have this bug, and I can't install xubuntu, yes, I write that the test is failed. [21:22] I wanted to find a workaround for myself, in order to continue to test [21:22] If I can't install xubuntu, I can't test, you understand ? [21:22] knome: that point wasn't made clear in any of the discussion about the change [21:22] Nairwolf, but you shouldn't continue to test. [21:23] flocculant, nope... but realistically speaking, the exception is not a problem [21:23] knome: and it seems rather silly to change something half way through the LTS cycle - then not have it on the LTS docs ;) [21:23] flocculant, agree [21:23] kind of not the point here :) [21:23] flocculant, but i'm not sure if i agree about translating the XSD to begin with completely [21:24] ? [21:24] now you've completely confused me :) [21:24] flocculant, and i'm not completely sure if it's the best idea to maintain the contributor docs in the same branch as the user docs, because the other is release-specific, the other isn't [21:24] this is kind of siderailing... [21:24] ha ha ha [21:24] ...but it's all related to this situation we have now [21:24] yea - I can see that as an issue [21:25] knome: the test is failed if I'm trying to install xubuntu with an image already installed "erase and install option", if my computer is completely empty, the installation works [21:25] flocculant, but splitting them would also mean maintaining the assets in two places and having to update them twice... [21:25] yea [21:25] for example, tonight, I have encountered this bug, after removing everything I can install xubuntu, and it seems to work, now. [21:25] Nairwolf: dude - the test failed [21:26] you failed it - report it [21:26] Nairwolf, i guess i get what you are saying now [21:26] I've done it : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/114894/testcases/1300/results [21:26] oh, great knome [21:26] Nairwolf, but i don't know why you are talking about a workaround; it's just setting a different target environment [21:27] Nairwolf: please write down EXACTLY the situation this fails for you on - partition setups etc - pastebin it and I'll see if I can confirm [21:27] ok, I will try to do that [21:27] flocculant, what he means is that if he installs xubuntu, then he needs to clean up the system to be able to run *another* ISO test [21:27] knome: well - I do that perhaps 5 times a week ... [21:27] flocculant, eg. the problem is in what happens between two tests [21:27] that's right knome. Sorry, sometimes my english sucks, and I can't express myself correctly... [21:28] flocculant, ack [21:28] Nairwolf: that's ok - we get there in the end [21:28] knome: so are you saying that if we have doc(s) as they are - we need to muck about with the LTS one anytime the contr stuff changes ? [21:29] I wanted to ask you other things, I've seen mousepad bugs, I think that one bug is a duplicate but I'm afraid to be wrong, can you help me to confirm ? [21:29] I believe that this bug ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mousepad/+bug/1537337 ) is a duplicate of this bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mousepad/+bug/1508192) [21:29] Launchpad bug 1537337 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Syntax highlighting no more working in 4.0 mousepad version" [Undecided,New] [21:29] Launchpad bug 1508192 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Mousepad search highlights hard to see" [Medium,Confirmed] [21:29] what do you think ? [21:29] never be afraif [21:29] flocculant: so I mark it as duplicate and I hope that someone will verify that ? [21:30] flocculant, actually no... what i'm saying that if changes happen in the contributor docs when the docs freeze is in effect, we're in a weird situation [21:30] mmk [21:30] flocculant, and obviously since contributor docs are not release-specific, it is kind of weird to track them in a release-specific environment [21:30] so that weird situation is going to occur often for the lts version I guess [21:30] flocculant, instead, they should just have one branch [21:30] yea - I totally get that [21:30] right [21:31] (ideally, from the technical POV) [21:31] Nairwolf: they don't look to be the same thing [21:32] my one is specifically about the colour of highlights for some poor old thing with old eyes - just like me :) [21:32] but then that means we would have the assets (eg. the docbook stylesheets, css stylesheets, PDF creation scripts, translation scripts, etc - you get the idea) in two different branches - and if we wanted to change them, we'd need to do the changes in two different branches [21:32] ok [21:32] that was the main reason to not split it up originally [21:32] oh, i'm stupid, yes it's not the same thing at all ! [21:32] knome: so how often would they be likely to change? [21:33] the assets that is [21:33] flocculant, unfortunately i think at least once a cycle [21:33] ideally, once in 2 years [21:33] or sth [21:33] right [21:33] i mean now that we have most of the docbook-related stuff laid out, it should be less [21:34] but if (and as) we want to keep the doucmentation consistent with the website visual look, we'll need to land some changes whenever we change the website [21:34] it's not 1:1, but there are things we want to keep fresh [21:34] s/we/i/ [21:34] obviously the contr stuff is likely to change more regularly - if for no other reason than we're putting stuff there [21:34] yes [21:34] but the content isn't the issue [21:34] ...in a way at least [21:35] let's talk hypothetically: [21:35] let's put the kettle on then ... [21:35] after 16.04 is released, we need a major change in the contributor docs - in this situation, let's imagine in the strategy document or something else very static [21:36] so we change the stuff and it gets uploaded in 16.10 [21:36] should the 16.04 branch get the update too? [21:36] it's still not EOL by far [21:36] yes should get the update [21:37] I'd say yes [21:37] but hypothetically, the contributor documentation there could be awkwardly wrong [21:37] the SD isn't different from one cycle to the rest or shouldn't be [21:37] and wasn't when it was living elsewhere [21:37] yes [21:37] the contr should be a moving thing too [21:37] that's one of the issues we have... [21:37] only the user docs should be static [21:37] ever [21:37] imho :) [21:38] but note [21:38] the issue is always there if we package the contributor docs at all [21:38] because even if it was a different branch or just different package from the same source, we'd still need updates for the package(s) [21:38] so one way to work around this is [21:39] first, keep maintaining the source in the same branch so we can peruse the shared assets [21:39] but not build it for the package [21:39] so technically, only make it available online [21:40] s/technically/practically/ [21:40] the "outdated" contributor docs will still be available in the SOURCE package [21:40] but hey... [21:40] we can at least leave a README or sth to notice people who poke the source [21:41] mmm [21:41] this is even pretty easy to change even at this point [21:41] we simply tell the Makefile not to build the contributor docs [21:41] (and change the startpage a bit) [21:41] so why is it hard to maintain the same assets in two places? [21:41] it's not hard, it's stupid [21:41] ignoring the someone haas to do it twice [21:42] then perhaps it was stupid of us to do what we have :) [21:42] maybe [21:42] but it was the less stupid option imo [21:42] gnome-software doesn't work at all on the daily ! [21:42] the SD and contr stuff was surely always going to have to be current *now* [21:42] yes [21:43] the option i proposed above is 99.99% the exact same stuff we have done now [21:43] so [21:43] and we would have done all the same things to reach that target if we were going to do it to begin with [21:44] online is always correct - stuff served in the image gets a readme to say 'this was correct when released' ? [21:44] no [21:44] online is always correct [21:44] offline there is a link to online [21:44] ok [21:44] in the source package (apt-get source xubuntu-docs) is a note that the contributor docs aren't backwards-maintained [21:44] that works for me [21:45] yep [21:45] at the point you pull a source package, you need to know a bit or two anyway [21:45] flocculant: I know you're busy, answer me when you've finished your discussion with knome. What would be the best cli tools to share you my partition setups. I was thinking to use "parted". [21:45] flocculant, i'd like to hear input from Unit193, kryten and bluesabre about this though [21:45] knome: we're *just* talking about the SD and contr being linked - just to be sure :) [21:45] ofc [21:46] flocculant, yes, just the contributor docs [21:46] mmm [21:46] flocculant, user docs will continue to live as they are now [21:46] yea - SD is part of contr ... [21:46] flocculant, because they are release-specific (and need to beQ) [21:46] yes [21:46] s/Q/!/ [21:46] sigh at typing [21:47] yep user docs = release version always ofc [21:47] Nairwolf: that or fdisk -l - don't care really as long as I can see what you've got :) [21:47] also this kind of makes more sense for the online docs anyway... [21:47] because currently, i think we're building the contributor docs for each release [21:47] and then once more for the actual /contributors/ subdir [21:48] mmm [21:48] ok, I'm sending you that flocculant [21:48] knome: I'd guess the contr stuff should be built when it's needed for them to be up to date [21:48] yep [21:48] exactly [21:48] which could in a bad month be often :p [21:49] sure, but if it's a bad month and there is somebody to write the changes, then there is somebody to update the online version [21:49] so it's not a huge issue [21:49] yea [21:50] i'll write a mail [21:50] knome: ok - I was about to suggest that [21:50] you do that [21:50] :p [21:51] Nairwolf: g-s in the daily - just installed and removed alarm clock ... [21:51] I couldn't install anything.... [21:51] I'm trying to encounter the swap bug again [21:53] why not don't - and see if someone can confirm it :) [21:55] I'm trying flocculant [21:56] oh, ubiquity has freezed... [21:57] Nairwolf: how are you testing this? [21:58] I'm testing the swap bug. This is my actual setup (https://paste.ubuntu.com/15418492/). I'm trying to use the daily image and install xubuntu by choosing "Erase Ubuntu Xenial Xerus and reinstall" [21:59] if I meet the bug again, I will give you everything you need [21:59] this is hardware not virtual then :) [22:00] yes, it's hardware, I'm testing with my second computer [22:01] flexiondotorg: Check PMs. [22:01] I believe it's better to test with real hardware [22:02] Nairwolf: most of the cycle it's not going to make huge difference apart from outliers [22:04] indeed, but maybe this is an outlier [22:04] Hi guys. As a new member in the mailing list, and after receiving the latest e-mail from David Pires, which asks for a last call and a last effort for translators, I just want to point out that I'm waiting for approval for about a week now, and still I got no answer. [22:04] hey cosimo_ [22:04] cosimo_: I believe that the 'approval' is from elsewhere [22:04] hey slickymaster - just in time :) [22:04] This is totally wrong. After all the help Xubuntu needs, I am still out here awaiting my turn to spend my time helping the team! [22:04] you're waiting approval for what, exactly? [22:04] hi slickymaster ;) [22:05] for entering the Catalan translation team [22:05] slickymaster: The translators team we have no control over is my guess. :/ [22:05] yes Unit193 [22:05] o hai Unit193 [22:05] as many strings are still missing in the latest daily builds of Xubuntu 16.04 32/64 [22:05] cosimo_, that's up to them to approve [22:06] I know, but I just want to share with you guys, that is a shame. [22:06] this translation madness seriously needs resolved [22:06] Many strings are missing, many Catalan users will be disappointed, here I am wanting to help, and time runs for nothing [22:06] well knome, it's LoCo [22:06] can't you keep poking them, cosimo_ [22:07] ? [22:07] I sent an e-mail to the LoCo (Catalan) mailing list, but nothing goes thru if isn't approved first, [22:07] applied for the membership (which is still awaiting approval) [22:07] looks like the LoCo is very quiet, [22:08] loco controls translations? [22:08] but users, will have a final ISO of Xubuntu with soooo many missing strings [22:08] honestly I don't know who controls translations (I'm new here guys) [22:08] yea - was a general question :) [22:08] slickymaster: is that right? [22:08] but I wanted to share it here, just to let you know that with this organization, there is no way to make a good product. [22:09] cosimo_, we're aware of the issue [22:09] flocculant: I've encountered the bug again. I'm sending you steps to reproduce. I will leave the chan soon, we should talk about it later. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15418664/ [22:09] Nairwolf: ok - I'll be about off and on during the weekend [22:10] that's good to know knome. So, if anyone, ever knows a way to help me, to help ;) I'll be waiting [22:10] slickymaster: I would love to answer your mail! [22:10] okay flocculant, do you have my email adress ? You can contact me by mail if you need more information. [22:11] Maybe I wrong, but I have doubt you can reproduce this error with a VM, as it seems to be hardware related. [22:11] cosimo_, i might be able to get you in the team, but possibly not until monday.. [22:11] yeah, I know cosimo_, unfortunately there's nothing we can do, also [22:11] that would be good anyway :) [22:11] Nairwolf: could be hardware issue - in which case no I don't have a 500Gb drive I can repurpose :) [22:12] slickymaster, dpm is an administrator on the team, so we might be lucky... but he isn't online right now [22:12] I'll keep waiting, you have my e-mail in the mailing list. Thank you again and greetings from Barcelona. [22:13] was just checking that knome [22:13]