| bluesabre | evening all | 01:11 |
|---|---|---|
| Unit193 | Howja. | 01:11 |
| knome | hello bluesabre | 01:11 |
| bluesabre | hey knome | 01:12 |
| knome | waiting for your comments on the docs mail :) | 01:13 |
| bluesabre | replied | 01:16 |
| knome | \o/ | 01:17 |
| knome | also, another question | 01:17 |
| knome | would it be sensible to package just the user docs? | 01:18 |
| knome | i mean, leave the contributor docs out of the source too? | 01:18 |
| knome | because we don't really need it there, we just want to use the same assets | 01:19 |
| bluesabre | doesn't make sense to duplicate assets across two branches, that creates extra overhead and leads to mismatched assets down the line. | 01:19 |
| knome | yes | 01:20 |
| knome | but can we leave out the contributor docs out of the (source) pkg for good even if they are in the same branch? | 01:20 |
| knome | because that would be even better | 01:20 |
| knome | if it's a lot of work though, it might not be worth it to rip it off | 01:21 |
| knome | because when i wrote the mail i was just thinking "let's just not build the contributor docs" | 01:21 |
| knome | compared to "let's not have the contributor docs in the package at all" | 01:22 |
| bluesabre | it'd be some work - we'd have to make some changes to the makefile to create a new distributable source package (like `make distcheck`) | 01:22 |
| bluesabre | so it'd be like building a release for xfce software like parole, etc | 01:23 |
| knome | would that be one-off work though? | 01:23 |
| bluesabre | yes, should be a single time thing | 01:23 |
| knome | right, then that might be something we might want to pursue | 01:23 |
| knome | (no pressure..) | 01:23 |
| bluesabre | then future releases would be: 1) update version numbers in configure 2) make distchec 3) create package from generated source tarball | 01:24 |
| knome | how do you see this | 01:24 |
| knome | would it be better to do what you just described, or would it be just fine having some extra stuff (that's potentially outdated) in the source package? | 01:25 |
| bluesabre | i think its fine to have extra stuff in the source package | 01:26 |
| bluesabre | libreoffice, for example, has extra themes in its source package that may or may not be built based on if you're in debian or ubuntu | 01:27 |
| knome | yeah, but the point is that they might be valuable for some people | 01:27 |
| knome | and themes do not get "outdated" in the same way as documentation does | 01:28 |
| knome | i don't know if you read the whole discussion we had before already (probably not), but we also discussed about having to do SRU-like updates for the docs package for the contributor stuff | 01:28 |
| bluesabre | yeah, but if we're not building them and have direct links indicating the the up-to-date docs are online... | 01:29 |
| knome | to make sure anybody running, say, 16.04 doesn't have the correct contributor stuff... | 01:29 |
| knome | s/correct/incorrect/ | 01:29 |
| bluesabre | i think it makes perfect sense to update the docs for SRU | 01:29 |
| knome | user docs, yes | 01:29 |
| knome | but contributor docs? | 01:29 |
| knome | it kind of feels a bit moot | 01:30 |
| knome | the contributor docs are *never* release-specific | 01:30 |
| bluesabre | unless they're in the `trusty`, `xenial` branches, right? | 01:30 |
| knome | nope. | 01:30 |
| knome | not even then | 01:30 |
| knome | they are only in those branches because they have to be | 01:31 |
| bluesabre | I think I might be confused then | 01:31 |
| bluesabre | what do we mean by user/contributor docs? | 01:31 |
| knome | user is the usual documentation | 01:31 |
| knome | contributor is the stuff that has the strategy document etc. | 01:31 |
| knome | user --> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/C/index.html | 01:32 |
| bluesabre | if you're going to contribute, you'll have to connect to the internet, unless we accept flash drives in the mail, right? :D | 01:32 |
| knome | contributor --> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ | 01:32 |
| knome | ...how are you going to contribute to xubuntu without a internet connection anyway? | 01:32 |
| bluesabre | right | 01:32 |
| knome | send a pigeon with a 10-page diff? | 01:32 |
| bluesabre | :D | 01:32 |
| bluesabre | works for xfce, no commits in that time | 01:33 |
| knome | /o\ | 01:33 |
| * bluesabre burns himself | 01:33 | |
| knome | anyway, too borderline that this would ever happen | 01:33 |
| knome | i thought about that too | 01:33 |
| knome | for about 2 milliseconds | 01:33 |
| bluesabre | contributor docs can be stagnant in a release, as long as there is a clear indication that the latest are at x | 01:33 |
| knome | but we don't want to build them | 01:34 |
| knome | so it would mean they are only in the source package | 01:34 |
| bluesabre | oh right | 01:34 |
| bluesabre | so we have a landing page in the user docs | 01:34 |
| knome | so the question is if we want to make sure they aren't even in the source | 01:34 |
| knome | yes, http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/ | 01:34 |
| knome | for 16.04, it actually links to the contributor docs that are built | 01:35 |
| knome | ...for now | 01:35 |
| bluesabre | I don't think its that big of a deal if they're in the source | 01:35 |
| knome | yes | 01:35 |
| knome | if you had read my mail... ;) | 01:35 |
| bluesabre | pretty sure i did | 01:35 |
| knome | " - Since the contributor documentation would still be available in the source package, make sure the source has a note pointing to the newest branch in case somebody wants to build the contributor documentation (I can take this item too)" | 01:36 |
| knome | along with " - While keeping both documentation sources in the same branch, drop contributor documentation from the default build target, thus, not shipping it with the built documentation on the ISO" | 01:36 |
| bluesabre | who is grabbing the source package to look at docs though? | 01:36 |
| knome | i don't know. | 01:36 |
| bluesabre | and especially without internet | 01:37 |
| bluesabre | :D | 01:37 |
| knome | so i guess the only question left is | 01:37 |
| knome | is it naughty to essentially change the source package | 01:37 |
| knome | with for example a translation update | 01:37 |
| knome | meaning, change more than just the translations in the source package | 01:38 |
| knome | eg. if/when we have an update for the contributor docs after the docs freeze, then we do the translation update upload | 01:38 |
| knome | or are source packages not subject to freezes (when they don't affect the packages itself) | 01:39 |
| bluesabre | shouldn't matter then, the docs package that is being created only has translation differences, even if the other source has changed | 01:39 |
| knome | "other source"? | 01:39 |
| knome | it's still the doc package source | 01:39 |
| bluesabre | right | 01:39 |
| bluesabre | bad words | 01:40 |
| bluesabre | distracted by cat getting in face and being annoying | 01:40 |
| knome | haha | 01:40 |
| bluesabre | the other parts of the source (that are not in fact packaged) | 01:40 |
| knome | yeah | 01:40 |
| knome | if that's not a problem, then ok | 01:40 |
| === link is now known as mexchip | ||
| bluesabre | I'd argue if anybody raised questions about it | 01:41 |
| knome | ...otoh, if the alternative is to take a one-time task and get the contributor docs out of the package... | 01:42 |
| * knome shrugs | 01:42 | |
| knome | ultimately, i don't care how it's technically dealt with | 01:42 |
| knome | as long as it's sensible for all parties involved with it | 01:43 |
| bluesabre | I *might* get fancy with a makefile that could accomplish that | 01:43 |
| bluesabre | but its a pretty low priority | 01:43 |
| knome | yep | 01:43 |
| bluesabre | I'd rather just argue with folks | 01:43 |
| bluesabre | :D | 01:43 |
| knome | i would think the next high priority thing is revert the startpage change | 01:43 |
| knome | ok, bedtime | 02:12 |
| knome | ttyl | 02:12 |
| dkessel | knome: +1 on the contributor Docs change idea | 05:43 |
| flocculant | knome: lots of words ... do any mean I need to think again? | 08:51 |
| HaloSponge | Morning flocculant | 08:54 |
| flocculant | hi HaloSponge | 08:59 |
| HaloSponge | flocculant: Are you stil 'packaging' for 16.04, like Kubuntu is doing at the moment ? | 09:02 |
| flocculant | HaloSponge: afaik other than any bug fixes landing - we'll not be adding anything now | 09:03 |
| flocculant | or shouldn't be | 09:03 |
| HaloSponge | ok ... What's on the agenda for Xubuntu over the next few weeks, then ? | 09:04 |
| flocculant | wallpaper competition | 09:04 |
| flocculant | testing | 09:04 |
| flocculant | bit late to be adding things now | 09:04 |
| HaloSponge | I'll do some testing for you . | 09:05 |
| flocculant | \o/ | 09:05 |
| * HaloSponge makes a promise :) | 09:05 | |
| flocculant | HaloSponge: do you read the dev mailing list? | 09:05 |
| flocculant | if you do - that's where I call for anything ;) | 09:05 |
| HaloSponge | Xubuntu seems to have come a_long way :) | 09:05 |
| flocculant | it has :) | 09:05 |
| flocculant | I remember looking way way back and wandering off | 09:06 |
| HaloSponge | I concur.# | 09:06 |
| HaloSponge | I remember the screensaver was a pet peev, of mine. Kept coming on after I'd changed the settings to 'blank' the screen ... with no way around it. | 09:07 |
| HaloSponge | i.e. I wanted screensaver to go away. | 09:08 |
| flocculant | :) | 09:09 |
| flocculant | well I never had issues like that | 09:09 |
| * HaloSponge is very clever . | 09:10 | |
| HaloSponge | He's done csomething for the first time. | 09:11 |
| HaloSponge | I pasted this link.... | 09:11 |
| HaloSponge | https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs | 09:11 |
| HaloSponge | into here. | 09:11 |
| HaloSponge | https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=https:%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2F~xubuntu-bugs | 09:11 |
| HaloSponge | But I think I have crashed bountysource, though. | 09:12 |
| flocculant | oops | 09:12 |
| HaloSponge | Does Xubuntu accept bounties ? | 09:12 |
| flocculant | there has been talk about it - but as I never do code I tend to not take much notice | 09:12 |
| * HaloSponge is really Bobba |Fetts Uncle :) | 09:13 | |
| flocculant | well nice to talk to you - I'm off out for a bit now | 09:14 |
| HaloSponge | flocculant: I need a cigarette. Can you think of something interesting to say in the next 4 minutes so I come back to a problem-to-solve or something ? Cheers. | 09:14 |
| flocculant | HaloSponge: fix community involvement in testing for us | 09:15 |
| flocculant | I'll be back in a couple of hours and will be interested to see what you come up with :) | 09:15 |
| HaloSponge | Fair enough. It was a good smoke .. plenty of boats in the bay ... had a chat with a bird or two. Say alot is happening in Spain at the moment. But you can never trust a chaffinch. | 09:21 |
| HaloSponge | I'm off .. c u later. | 09:37 |
| bluesabre | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2016-March/001176.html | 11:44 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: yea - saw it - wish I could vote for you :) | 11:49 |
| flocculant | good luck old chap ;) | 11:49 |
| dkessel | what the hell is a debian ".menu" file and does having it in a debian package somehow automatically cause a .desktop file to be created out of it? meh... | 11:53 |
| dkessel | trying to understand what the patch for a package would be, to help with the appstream data stuff... | 11:54 |
| dkessel | mh nevermind, i might not need to understand that in order to help :p | 12:03 |
| HaloSponge | back again .. good racketball session at the club house this 'mornin | 12:07 |
| kryten | dkessel: Basically though, both of those are independent. | 12:08 |
| bluesabre | dkessel: to answer your first question, https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html | 12:08 |
| flocculant | wb HaloSponge :) | 12:10 |
| HaloSponge | hi there. | 12:11 |
| * flocculant has a go with 14.04>16.04 in kvm today | 12:38 | |
| * bluesabre wishes flocculant the best | 13:06 | |
| flocculant | :) | 13:18 |
| kryten | GridCube: Ftm, he has asked the same in #ubuntu. | 13:26 |
| GridCube | que? | 13:26 |
| GridCube | oh, the search scope? | 13:27 |
| kryten | "< peterkotan> k1l: yeah i dont really know what to use for" :3 | 13:27 |
| GridCube | kryten: P: this is -devel | 13:27 |
| kryten | And nope. :D | 13:27 |
| kryten | Crap. :D | 13:28 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: so that failed then ... | 13:46 |
| flocculant | terminal window says it's doing something with /etc/gnome/defaults.list - above that some other thing | 13:51 |
| flocculant | funnily enough - all the fails I've seen have faltered at that defaults.list - but above something different - udisks/module-init-tools/libutempter0 - all show defaults.list in the terminal window of the upgrader | 13:54 |
| flocculant | trying with an updated 14.04.1 rather than .4 - cypher mox said he'd got one to upgrade yesterday | 13:55 |
| kryten | knome: Btw, I've stopped looking into fixing the PDF build fails properly after suggesting the least bad hacky solution. :P | 14:15 |
| kryten | ...Or pointing out, rather. | 14:16 |
| bluesabre | sounds to me like the best solution would be find an alternative to fop or stop building PDFs | 14:31 |
| flocculant | \o/ | 15:12 |
| flocculant | another thing to apparently hang on | 15:13 |
| flocculant | even though the terminal says /etc/gnome/defaults.list ... | 15:13 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: jfi - got all the upgrades to eventually get there. Took a fail report on the tracker for me to wake up and dpkg --configure -a | 16:13 |
| flocculant | obviously still fail - but at least we can get to a working xenial from trusty | 16:13 |
| HaloSponge | Hello peeps ! How's it hanging ? | 17:26 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: bug 1557349 | 18:43 |
| ubottu | bug 1557349 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole does not hold the media frame when paused in fullscreen mode" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1557349 | 18:43 |
| pavlushka | if anyone faced the bug #1556531? | 19:04 |
| ubottu | bug 1556531 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Login screen needs a click to get alive, otherwise remains black." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556531 | 19:04 |
| pavlushka | and is it a crime not to call sudo being root? bug #1556542 | 19:08 |
| ubottu | bug 1556542 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal flickers while calling any program as root not using sudo." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556542 | 19:08 |
| pavlushka | and also I cant set my external display as primary, bug #1556438 | 19:10 |
| ubottu | bug 1556438 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't set my external display as primary" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556438 | 19:10 |
| kryten | pavlushka: Well, if you're already root, no need to call sudo, of course. But how do you become that in the first place then? (I'd suggest "sudo -i".) | 19:19 |
| pavlushka | set root passwd, then login as root. | 19:20 |
| kryten | Eww. | 19:20 |
| kryten | !root | 19:20 |
| ubottu | Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth... there is no root password. Then you will see that it is 'sudo' that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo | 19:20 |
| Unit193 | bluesabre: Oh right. And didn't say last night, but good luck you crazy man. | 20:12 |
| knome | flocculant, the mail basically summarises what we discussed and proposes the same thing i said then, so no | 21:22 |
| flocculant | knome: ack - was more all the words in channel - not the mail :) | 21:26 |
| knome | aha | 21:27 |
| ochosi | knome: i presume you've considered adding a link to the devel ML in the dev.x.o header, right? | 22:23 |
| knome | ochosi, yes. | 22:49 |
| knome | ochosi, have you considered looking at the media manager article? | 22:50 |
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