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hggdhOK. The election for the 3 slots available on the IRC Council is now open. If you did not receive an email with the link to vote (*and* you are a member of the Ubuntu IRC Team on Launchpad), then yell.20:27
Fuchshggdh: yell21:04
Fuchs(Fuchs on lolpad)21:05
daxFuchs: cannot be, that lolpad member is part of the freenode staff team21:07
* dax ducks21:07
* Fuchs looks at his emeritus cloak21:08
Fuchsyes, about correct21:08
Fuchsthere are various other former members as well, I think it's supposed to be that way21:08
Fuchsanyway, I didn't get an e-mail, so I can't vote against rww21:08
daxeither that or it's stuck in an alternate universe where martinp23 is still a staffer21:08
Fuchsplease fix, Flannel or hggdh or whoever is responsible21:09
Fuchsdax: and ldunn21:09
Fuchsand Pricey21:09
Fuchsand Elwell ... the list goes on21:09
daxmaybe it should just be renamed to ~freenode-staff-emeritus :321:09
FuchsI like it the way it is21:09
daxi'd count and see which is more accurate but i can't be bothered21:09
Fuchsplease don't make them change it, thank you.21:09
Fuchsnow back to the problem at paw21:10
daxthe relevant people have been poked :P21:10
Fuchsgood, good21:10
FlannelFuchs: Where do you want it sent?21:10
FuchsFlannel: ubuntu at fuchsnet dot ch    is fine21:10
FuchsI think, give me a minute21:10
FlannelFuchs: I'll ignore that last statement and wait for the one in a minute21:11
Fuchsyes, that is fine21:11
k1l_are your sure the email you set at launchpad is working?21:11
dax(it might just be very hidden)21:11
Fuchsk1l_: yes21:11
dax(mine is too but Flannel knows where i live so)21:11
Fuchsk1l_: it's a known issue with hidden e-mail addresses, I thought it was resolved by now, apparently not21:11
daxFuchs: it's resolvable by having the CC poke Canonical IS for email addresses, which bleh21:12
FlannelFuchs: I sent it to the primary email in your GPG key, for reference.21:12
Fuchshuh, whatever that one is  *checks*21:12
Fuchsnooo, nonono21:12
Fuchsthat one has not been working for ages  *goes replace*21:12
k1l_aha, totally a launchpad issue ;p21:13
daxi should probably re-sign my GPG key one of these years. it's been expired for a long while21:13
daxby which i mean a year and a bit21:13
FlannelFuchs: You should have an email.21:14
Fuchsk1l_: it is a launchpad issue, see above21:15
daxi'm not sure that "hidden emails are hidden" is a launchpad issue?21:15
Fuchsit should™ go to the e-mail address(es), which are still correct, but it can't21:15
daxconsidering the email finder we used pulls emails with the permissions of the logged in user, so it's set to "hidden from all" not "hidden from signed-out users"21:16
Fuchsyes, but taking an e-mail from gpg keys is somewhat silly from an UX perspective, as there is zero guarantee that this is a valid e-mail at this point, nor that user wants or expects e-mails regarding launchpad to it21:18
Fuchsso the proper fix is what you mentioned above21:18
daxthat's not a bug in Launchpad, that's a bug in Flannel21:18
Fuchsor having a function to contact group members in lolpad, either works21:18
Flanneldax: I'm pretty sure it's a feature.21:19
daxa function to send one email and have it go to all members of a group in Launchpad 1) exists, 2) doesn't work for CIVS voting21:19
daxb/c CIVS wants a list of email addresses so it can send unique keys to each21:20
Fuchsand that needs fixing21:20
FlannelFuchs: Dud you get the email?21:20
FuchsFlannel: yes, thank you :)21:20
Fuchsthinking of it21:21
Fuchsthat vote page is one massive Usability issue as well21:21
daxi think your complaint list reduces to21:22
daxi think your complaint list reduces to "make voting in Launchpad not terrible so people don't ignore it and use an external provider"21:22
Fuchsthat would work, yes21:22
Fuchsone could also implement an IRC poker in that e-mail fetcher *nods*21:23
Fuchsthere are libraries for it in most sane programming languages, and most insane ones, too21:23
Fuchs(yes, that's a stupid idea, but given gpg keys are considered, it's not that odd)21:23
hggdhwell, yes, the email harverster has a few limitations. This is why Flannel was telling everybody to contact him (as I did here)21:30
Fuchsyes, that worked :)21:30
hggdhwell, not *everybody*, but just these that did not get an email21:30
hggdhwell, not just those that did not receive an email, but *also* are members of the IRC team21:31
hggdhFuchs: so... re you going to update your GPG keys so that the first email there works?21:32
Fuchshggdh: already done, but personally I recommend not using that, as per the above21:32
Fuchsgpg keys are not at all meant to be a ressource for valid e-mail addresses, so I'd rather put a state of "failed delivery" there and try to poke people instead of assuming that worked21:33
hggdhFuchs: yeah. I had not considered the GPG email issue.21:33
Fuchs(note that there is also zero validation of these e-mail addresses, so people preferring to not receive spam might put nonsensical ones there)21:34
hggdhwe could change it but this will mean more work for the voting maestro (as only the maestro can add new emails to the voting)21:34
hggdhI know about that. But there is nothing we can do. For example, you could open a LP account with one email, then stop using it.21:35
FuchsI recommend not using it and creating a list of unreachable people (due to no e-mail address found), then trying to poke these21:35
Fuchsor what dax suggested21:35
daxhggdh: (it's the ubuntu irc members team, not the irc team. they're different things because lolidfk)21:36
FuchsI think I'm even in both *checks*21:37
hggdhdax: indeed. I thought of the Ubuntu IRC team, and just wrote IRC team. My bad.21:37
hggdhUbuntu IRC members team21:37
Fuchsapparently I am in both21:37
daxanother example of how our LP stuff is broken as hell21:38
daxthis is the voting group: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-members21:38
daxthis is what is named "IRC Team" in LP: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc21:38
daxthis is the IRC Team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ops21:38
Fuchswell, -ish21:38
hggdhwe should really, really, restructure it21:38
Fuchs-ops is only core, isn't it?21:38
daxFuchs: which is what the IRC Team is.21:39
hggdhI guess so, mosta21:39
daxit's literally the group of people who manage core channels21:39
Fuchsdax: in whose terminology?21:39
daxFuchs: IRCC + CC21:39
Fuchslovely, so we have at least two ♥21:39
Fuchsprobably 321:39
daxcore channels are managed by the IRC Team, non-core channels are managed by the relevant team that uses them, IRCC has oversight over everything that happens in the ubuntu namespaces but more directly manages the IRC Team21:40
daxthat part of the back of your head which is now screaming is the part of my head that finds such things highly amusing, fwiw21:42
hggdhin simpler words, the IRCC manages all of the ubuntu namespace, except where it does not.21:43
daxdepends on definition of "manages" :)21:43
daxit's delegated to have oversight over the lot of it, and it also directly manages the team that handles core channels21:43
daxbut then we also get into the bit where from freenode's point of view there are five (or four, but i think that got fixed) people with teh ultimate powahz over the ubuntu namespaces, and what is a community council21:44
daxit's all very confusing and thank god a decent number of people have been around for years and keep it all straight21:45
FuchsThis will all be fixed by GMS21:46
Fuchswhich will be a launchpad module21:46
Fuchscoded by jzk21:46
Fuchsthen we can vote on IRC, he already coded that21:46
daxGMS will, highly-entertainingly actually make it worse21:46
daxbecause under GMS, you /have/ to get a GC's attention to register a primary namespace channel, whereas right now it's mostly self-service and the IRCC only has to get involved if stuff goes wrong21:47
Fuchswhy should?21:47
Fuchsah, that21:47
Fuchsit's not clear what happens with existing # channels nor whether registration will be completely blocked, as far as I know21:47
daxwell, that's how it was on testnet, and i haven't seen the staffer side of it, maybe there are config settings that mitigate that21:47
Fuchsin either case, it will take ages until that is implemented21:47
daxactually, i'm fairly certain there are config settings that mitigate that now that i think more, so yeah, who knows21:48
Fuchsthe code is on GitHub, feel free to check, I won't touch that with a 2000ft stick21:49
dax1) dax pays attention to GMS, 2) dax fears for the future of humanity, 3) dax makes snarky remarks at #freenode, 4) dax gets yelled at by mst, 5) dax stops paying attention to GMS, 6) time passes, 7) goto 121:50
Fuchsalso mst should be a list21:50
daxalthough to be fair said comments mostly revolved around the topic of "this thing has taken so long to code that there are kids in middle school born after it"21:51
daxapparently i should take such comments to the reddit thread about it. which i was unable to find so oh well21:51
Fuchsprobably because it's ~6 years old21:52
daxand buried under years of [insert bad things dax brings up about reddit on a weekly basis here] posts21:52
daxanyway my brain now feels less like mush so i'ma go do laundry and upgrade a server at work (great idea!)21:53
Fuchshaev fun21:53

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