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| hggdh | OK. The election for the 3 slots available on the IRC Council is now open. If you did not receive an email with the link to vote (*and* you are a member of the Ubuntu IRC Team on Launchpad), then yell. | 20:27 |
|---|---|---|
| Flannel | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2016-March/001844.html | 20:28 |
| Fuchs | hggdh: yell | 21:04 |
| Fuchs | (Fuchs on lolpad) | 21:05 |
| dax | Fuchs: cannot be, that lolpad member is part of the freenode staff team | 21:07 |
| * dax ducks | 21:07 | |
| * Fuchs looks at his emeritus cloak | 21:08 | |
| Fuchs | yes, about correct | 21:08 |
| Fuchs | there are various other former members as well, I think it's supposed to be that way | 21:08 |
| Fuchs | anyway, I didn't get an e-mail, so I can't vote against rww | 21:08 |
| dax | o | 21:08 |
| dax | either that or it's stuck in an alternate universe where martinp23 is still a staffer | 21:08 |
| Fuchs | please fix, Flannel or hggdh or whoever is responsible | 21:09 |
| Fuchs | dax: and ldunn | 21:09 |
| Fuchs | and Pricey | 21:09 |
| Fuchs | and Elwell ... the list goes on | 21:09 |
| dax | maybe it should just be renamed to ~freenode-staff-emeritus :3 | 21:09 |
| Fuchs | I like it the way it is | 21:09 |
| dax | i'd count and see which is more accurate but i can't be bothered | 21:09 |
| Fuchs | please don't make them change it, thank you. | 21:09 |
| Fuchs | now back to the problem at paw | 21:10 |
| dax | the relevant people have been poked :P | 21:10 |
| Fuchs | good, good | 21:10 |
| Flannel | Fuchs: Where do you want it sent? | 21:10 |
| Fuchs | Flannel: ubuntu at fuchsnet dot ch is fine | 21:10 |
| Fuchs | I think, give me a minute | 21:10 |
| Flannel | Fuchs: I'll ignore that last statement and wait for the one in a minute | 21:11 |
| Fuchs | yes, that is fine | 21:11 |
| Flannel | Ok | 21:11 |
| Fuchs | ♥ | 21:11 |
| k1l_ | are your sure the email you set at launchpad is working? | 21:11 |
| dax | (it might just be very hidden) | 21:11 |
| Fuchs | k1l_: yes | 21:11 |
| dax | (mine is too but Flannel knows where i live so) | 21:11 |
| Fuchs | k1l_: it's a known issue with hidden e-mail addresses, I thought it was resolved by now, apparently not | 21:11 |
| dax | Fuchs: it's resolvable by having the CC poke Canonical IS for email addresses, which bleh | 21:12 |
| Flannel | Fuchs: I sent it to the primary email in your GPG key, for reference. | 21:12 |
| Fuchs | huh, whatever that one is *checks* | 21:12 |
| Fuchs | nooo, nonono | 21:12 |
| Fuchs | that one has not been working for ages *goes replace* | 21:12 |
| k1l_ | aha, totally a launchpad issue ;p | 21:13 |
| dax | i should probably re-sign my GPG key one of these years. it's been expired for a long while | 21:13 |
| dax | by which i mean a year and a bit | 21:13 |
| Flannel | Fuchs: You should have an email. | 21:14 |
| Fuchs | k1l_: it is a launchpad issue, see above | 21:15 |
| dax | i'm not sure that "hidden emails are hidden" is a launchpad issue? | 21:15 |
| Fuchs | it should™ go to the e-mail address(es), which are still correct, but it can't | 21:15 |
| dax | considering the email finder we used pulls emails with the permissions of the logged in user, so it's set to "hidden from all" not "hidden from signed-out users" | 21:16 |
| Fuchs | yes, but taking an e-mail from gpg keys is somewhat silly from an UX perspective, as there is zero guarantee that this is a valid e-mail at this point, nor that user wants or expects e-mails regarding launchpad to it | 21:18 |
| Fuchs | so the proper fix is what you mentioned above | 21:18 |
| dax | that's not a bug in Launchpad, that's a bug in Flannel | 21:18 |
| Fuchs | or having a function to contact group members in lolpad, either works | 21:18 |
| Flannel | dax: I'm pretty sure it's a feature. | 21:19 |
| dax | a function to send one email and have it go to all members of a group in Launchpad 1) exists, 2) doesn't work for CIVS voting | 21:19 |
| dax | b/c CIVS wants a list of email addresses so it can send unique keys to each | 21:20 |
| Fuchs | and that needs fixing | 21:20 |
| Flannel | Fuchs: Dud you get the email? | 21:20 |
| Fuchs | Flannel: yes, thank you :) | 21:20 |
| Fuchs | thinking of it | 21:21 |
| Fuchs | that vote page is one massive Usability issue as well | 21:21 |
| dax | i think your complaint list reduces to | 21:22 |
| dax | i think your complaint list reduces to "make voting in Launchpad not terrible so people don't ignore it and use an external provider" | 21:22 |
| Fuchs | that would work, yes | 21:22 |
| Fuchs | one could also implement an IRC poker in that e-mail fetcher *nods* | 21:23 |
| Fuchs | there are libraries for it in most sane programming languages, and most insane ones, too | 21:23 |
| Fuchs | (yes, that's a stupid idea, but given gpg keys are considered, it's not that odd) | 21:23 |
| hggdh | well, yes, the email harverster has a few limitations. This is why Flannel was telling everybody to contact him (as I did here) | 21:30 |
| Fuchs | yes, that worked :) | 21:30 |
| hggdh | well, not *everybody*, but just these that did not get an email | 21:30 |
| hggdh | well, not just those that did not receive an email, but *also* are members of the IRC team | 21:31 |
| hggdh | uff | 21:31 |
| hggdh | Fuchs: so... re you going to update your GPG keys so that the first email there works? | 21:32 |
| Fuchs | hggdh: already done, but personally I recommend not using that, as per the above | 21:32 |
| Fuchs | gpg keys are not at all meant to be a ressource for valid e-mail addresses, so I'd rather put a state of "failed delivery" there and try to poke people instead of assuming that worked | 21:33 |
| hggdh | Fuchs: yeah. I had not considered the GPG email issue. | 21:33 |
| Fuchs | (note that there is also zero validation of these e-mail addresses, so people preferring to not receive spam might put nonsensical ones there) | 21:34 |
| hggdh | we could change it but this will mean more work for the voting maestro (as only the maestro can add new emails to the voting) | 21:34 |
| hggdh | I know about that. But there is nothing we can do. For example, you could open a LP account with one email, then stop using it. | 21:35 |
| Fuchs | I recommend not using it and creating a list of unreachable people (due to no e-mail address found), then trying to poke these | 21:35 |
| Fuchs | or what dax suggested | 21:35 |
| dax | hggdh: (it's the ubuntu irc members team, not the irc team. they're different things because lolidfk) | 21:36 |
| Fuchs | I think I'm even in both *checks* | 21:37 |
| hggdh | dax: indeed. I thought of the Ubuntu IRC team, and just wrote IRC team. My bad. | 21:37 |
| hggdh | crap | 21:37 |
| hggdh | Ubuntu IRC members team | 21:37 |
| hggdh | <sigh/> | 21:37 |
| Fuchs | apparently I am in both | 21:37 |
| hggdh | goot | 21:37 |
| dax | another example of how our LP stuff is broken as hell | 21:38 |
| dax | this is the voting group: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-members | 21:38 |
| dax | this is what is named "IRC Team" in LP: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc | 21:38 |
| dax | this is the IRC Team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ops | 21:38 |
| Fuchs | well, -ish | 21:38 |
| hggdh | we should really, really, restructure it | 21:38 |
| Fuchs | -ops is only core, isn't it? | 21:38 |
| dax | Fuchs: which is what the IRC Team is. | 21:39 |
| hggdh | I guess so, mosta | 21:39 |
| dax | it's literally the group of people who manage core channels | 21:39 |
| Fuchs | dax: in whose terminology? | 21:39 |
| dax | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam | 21:39 |
| dax | Fuchs: IRCC + CC | 21:39 |
| Fuchs | lovely, so we have at least two ♥ | 21:39 |
| Fuchs | probably 3 | 21:39 |
| dax | core channels are managed by the IRC Team, non-core channels are managed by the relevant team that uses them, IRCC has oversight over everything that happens in the ubuntu namespaces but more directly manages the IRC Team | 21:40 |
| dax | that part of the back of your head which is now screaming is the part of my head that finds such things highly amusing, fwiw | 21:42 |
| hggdh | in simpler words, the IRCC manages all of the ubuntu namespace, except where it does not. | 21:43 |
| dax | depends on definition of "manages" :) | 21:43 |
| dax | it's delegated to have oversight over the lot of it, and it also directly manages the team that handles core channels | 21:43 |
| dax | but then we also get into the bit where from freenode's point of view there are five (or four, but i think that got fixed) people with teh ultimate powahz over the ubuntu namespaces, and what is a community council | 21:44 |
| dax | it's all very confusing and thank god a decent number of people have been around for years and keep it all straight | 21:45 |
| Fuchs | This will all be fixed by GMS | 21:46 |
| Fuchs | which will be a launchpad module | 21:46 |
| Fuchs | coded by jzk | 21:46 |
| Fuchs | then we can vote on IRC, he already coded that | 21:46 |
| dax | GMS will, highly-entertainingly actually make it worse | 21:46 |
| dax | because under GMS, you /have/ to get a GC's attention to register a primary namespace channel, whereas right now it's mostly self-service and the IRCC only has to get involved if stuff goes wrong | 21:47 |
| Fuchs | why should? | 21:47 |
| Fuchs | ah, that | 21:47 |
| Fuchs | depends | 21:47 |
| Fuchs | it's not clear what happens with existing # channels nor whether registration will be completely blocked, as far as I know | 21:47 |
| dax | well, that's how it was on testnet, and i haven't seen the staffer side of it, maybe there are config settings that mitigate that | 21:47 |
| Fuchs | in either case, it will take ages until that is implemented | 21:47 |
| dax | actually, i'm fairly certain there are config settings that mitigate that now that i think more, so yeah, who knows | 21:48 |
| Fuchs | the code is on GitHub, feel free to check, I won't touch that with a 2000ft stick | 21:49 |
| dax | 1) dax pays attention to GMS, 2) dax fears for the future of humanity, 3) dax makes snarky remarks at #freenode, 4) dax gets yelled at by mst, 5) dax stops paying attention to GMS, 6) time passes, 7) goto 1 | 21:50 |
| Fuchs | also mst should be a list | 21:50 |
| dax | although to be fair said comments mostly revolved around the topic of "this thing has taken so long to code that there are kids in middle school born after it" | 21:51 |
| dax | apparently i should take such comments to the reddit thread about it. which i was unable to find so oh well | 21:51 |
| Fuchs | probably because it's ~6 years old | 21:52 |
| dax | and buried under years of [insert bad things dax brings up about reddit on a weekly basis here] posts | 21:52 |
| dax | anyway my brain now feels less like mush so i'ma go do laundry and upgrade a server at work (great idea!) | 21:53 |
| dax | ttyl | 21:53 |
| Fuchs | haev fun | 21:53 |
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