=== zequence_ is now known as zequence === mkv is now known as m4v === MooDoo is now known as Guest17344 === Guest17344 is now known as MooDoo [20:27] OK. The election for the 3 slots available on the IRC Council is now open. If you did not receive an email with the link to vote (*and* you are a member of the Ubuntu IRC Team on Launchpad), then yell. [20:28] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2016-March/001844.html [21:04] hggdh: yell [21:05] (Fuchs on lolpad) [21:07] Fuchs: cannot be, that lolpad member is part of the freenode staff team [21:07] * dax ducks [21:08] * Fuchs looks at his emeritus cloak [21:08] yes, about correct [21:08] there are various other former members as well, I think it's supposed to be that way [21:08] anyway, I didn't get an e-mail, so I can't vote against rww [21:08] o [21:08] either that or it's stuck in an alternate universe where martinp23 is still a staffer [21:09] please fix, Flannel or hggdh or whoever is responsible [21:09] dax: and ldunn [21:09] and Pricey [21:09] and Elwell ... the list goes on [21:09] maybe it should just be renamed to ~freenode-staff-emeritus :3 [21:09] I like it the way it is [21:09] i'd count and see which is more accurate but i can't be bothered [21:09] please don't make them change it, thank you. [21:10] now back to the problem at paw [21:10] the relevant people have been poked :P [21:10] good, good [21:10] Fuchs: Where do you want it sent? [21:10] Flannel: ubuntu at fuchsnet dot ch is fine [21:10] I think, give me a minute [21:11] Fuchs: I'll ignore that last statement and wait for the one in a minute [21:11] yes, that is fine [21:11] Ok [21:11] ♥ [21:11] are your sure the email you set at launchpad is working? [21:11] (it might just be very hidden) [21:11] k1l_: yes [21:11] (mine is too but Flannel knows where i live so) [21:11] k1l_: it's a known issue with hidden e-mail addresses, I thought it was resolved by now, apparently not [21:12] Fuchs: it's resolvable by having the CC poke Canonical IS for email addresses, which bleh [21:12] Fuchs: I sent it to the primary email in your GPG key, for reference. [21:12] huh, whatever that one is *checks* [21:12] nooo, nonono [21:12] that one has not been working for ages *goes replace* [21:13] aha, totally a launchpad issue ;p [21:13] i should probably re-sign my GPG key one of these years. it's been expired for a long while [21:13] by which i mean a year and a bit [21:14] Fuchs: You should have an email. [21:15] k1l_: it is a launchpad issue, see above [21:15] i'm not sure that "hidden emails are hidden" is a launchpad issue? [21:15] it should™ go to the e-mail address(es), which are still correct, but it can't [21:16] considering the email finder we used pulls emails with the permissions of the logged in user, so it's set to "hidden from all" not "hidden from signed-out users" [21:18] yes, but taking an e-mail from gpg keys is somewhat silly from an UX perspective, as there is zero guarantee that this is a valid e-mail at this point, nor that user wants or expects e-mails regarding launchpad to it [21:18] so the proper fix is what you mentioned above [21:18] that's not a bug in Launchpad, that's a bug in Flannel [21:18] or having a function to contact group members in lolpad, either works [21:19] dax: I'm pretty sure it's a feature. [21:19] a function to send one email and have it go to all members of a group in Launchpad 1) exists, 2) doesn't work for CIVS voting [21:20] b/c CIVS wants a list of email addresses so it can send unique keys to each [21:20] and that needs fixing [21:20] Fuchs: Dud you get the email? [21:20] Flannel: yes, thank you :) [21:21] thinking of it [21:21] that vote page is one massive Usability issue as well [21:22] i think your complaint list reduces to [21:22] i think your complaint list reduces to "make voting in Launchpad not terrible so people don't ignore it and use an external provider" [21:22] that would work, yes [21:23] one could also implement an IRC poker in that e-mail fetcher *nods* [21:23] there are libraries for it in most sane programming languages, and most insane ones, too [21:23] (yes, that's a stupid idea, but given gpg keys are considered, it's not that odd) [21:30] well, yes, the email harverster has a few limitations. This is why Flannel was telling everybody to contact him (as I did here) [21:30] yes, that worked :) [21:30] well, not *everybody*, but just these that did not get an email [21:31] well, not just those that did not receive an email, but *also* are members of the IRC team [21:31] uff [21:32] Fuchs: so... re you going to update your GPG keys so that the first email there works? [21:32] hggdh: already done, but personally I recommend not using that, as per the above [21:33] gpg keys are not at all meant to be a ressource for valid e-mail addresses, so I'd rather put a state of "failed delivery" there and try to poke people instead of assuming that worked [21:33] Fuchs: yeah. I had not considered the GPG email issue. [21:34] (note that there is also zero validation of these e-mail addresses, so people preferring to not receive spam might put nonsensical ones there) [21:34] we could change it but this will mean more work for the voting maestro (as only the maestro can add new emails to the voting) [21:35] I know about that. But there is nothing we can do. For example, you could open a LP account with one email, then stop using it. [21:35] I recommend not using it and creating a list of unreachable people (due to no e-mail address found), then trying to poke these [21:35] or what dax suggested [21:36] hggdh: (it's the ubuntu irc members team, not the irc team. they're different things because lolidfk) [21:37] I think I'm even in both *checks* [21:37] dax: indeed. I thought of the Ubuntu IRC team, and just wrote IRC team. My bad. [21:37] crap [21:37] Ubuntu IRC members team [21:37] [21:37] apparently I am in both [21:37] goot [21:38] another example of how our LP stuff is broken as hell [21:38] this is the voting group: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-members [21:38] this is what is named "IRC Team" in LP: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc [21:38] this is the IRC Team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ops [21:38] well, -ish [21:38] we should really, really, restructure it [21:38] -ops is only core, isn't it? [21:39] Fuchs: which is what the IRC Team is. [21:39] I guess so, mosta [21:39] it's literally the group of people who manage core channels [21:39] dax: in whose terminology? [21:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam [21:39] Fuchs: IRCC + CC [21:39] lovely, so we have at least two ♥ [21:39] probably 3 [21:40] core channels are managed by the IRC Team, non-core channels are managed by the relevant team that uses them, IRCC has oversight over everything that happens in the ubuntu namespaces but more directly manages the IRC Team [21:42] that part of the back of your head which is now screaming is the part of my head that finds such things highly amusing, fwiw [21:43] in simpler words, the IRCC manages all of the ubuntu namespace, except where it does not. [21:43] depends on definition of "manages" :) [21:43] it's delegated to have oversight over the lot of it, and it also directly manages the team that handles core channels [21:44] but then we also get into the bit where from freenode's point of view there are five (or four, but i think that got fixed) people with teh ultimate powahz over the ubuntu namespaces, and what is a community council [21:45] it's all very confusing and thank god a decent number of people have been around for years and keep it all straight [21:46] This will all be fixed by GMS [21:46] which will be a launchpad module [21:46] coded by jzk [21:46] then we can vote on IRC, he already coded that [21:46] GMS will, highly-entertainingly actually make it worse [21:47] because under GMS, you /have/ to get a GC's attention to register a primary namespace channel, whereas right now it's mostly self-service and the IRCC only has to get involved if stuff goes wrong [21:47] why should? [21:47] ah, that [21:47] depends [21:47] it's not clear what happens with existing # channels nor whether registration will be completely blocked, as far as I know [21:47] well, that's how it was on testnet, and i haven't seen the staffer side of it, maybe there are config settings that mitigate that [21:47] in either case, it will take ages until that is implemented [21:48] actually, i'm fairly certain there are config settings that mitigate that now that i think more, so yeah, who knows [21:49] the code is on GitHub, feel free to check, I won't touch that with a 2000ft stick [21:50] 1) dax pays attention to GMS, 2) dax fears for the future of humanity, 3) dax makes snarky remarks at #freenode, 4) dax gets yelled at by mst, 5) dax stops paying attention to GMS, 6) time passes, 7) goto 1 [21:50] also mst should be a list [21:51] although to be fair said comments mostly revolved around the topic of "this thing has taken so long to code that there are kids in middle school born after it" [21:51] apparently i should take such comments to the reddit thread about it. which i was unable to find so oh well [21:52] probably because it's ~6 years old [21:52] and buried under years of [insert bad things dax brings up about reddit on a weekly basis here] posts [21:53] anyway my brain now feels less like mush so i'ma go do laundry and upgrade a server at work (great idea!) [21:53] ttyl [21:53] haev fun