[14:33] <zequence> Ok, so we still have double indicators on our ISO. I'll have a look at this during the day.
[14:39] <zequence> Unless we add a new xchat type of application to our seeds, we should remove the IRC shortcut in the menu, under our Ubuntu Studio Information menu
[14:42] <zequence> Had an idea on how to customize our desktop to our needs, without having to change anything from something we derive from
[14:42] <zequence> We should add a new desktop package, something like ubuntustudio-desktop-common, which includes things we would like to have no matter which DE is being used
[14:43] <zequence> Like, hexchat (instead of xchat9
[14:43] <zequence> I'll post to the mail list about it
[14:52] <zequence> or, for now, we just make ubuntustudio-menu depend on hexchat
[14:52] <zequence> ..and change the startup file
[14:52] <krytarik> Eww. :)
[14:53] <OvenWerks> maybe xterm irssi?
[14:56] <zequence> OvenWerks: I would rather vote for a choice that is as simple as possible for users
[14:56] <krytarik> The menu shouldn't depend on any IRC client just because it includes an entry for it, that is - if there is none installed by default, just drop that instead.
[14:56] <zequence> krytarik: I'd rather have a simple way for user to be able to chat with us. Find an alternative, if you want
[14:57] <krytarik> Yes, me too.
[14:58] <OvenWerks> If things are set up properly... an irc://url/#ubuntustudio should just work.
[14:58] <zequence> The menu needs an irc client, so we could add an OR based dependency on all supported clients
[14:59] <zequence> hexchat and xchat both works with the irc url
[14:59] <zequence> Are there others?
[15:00] <OvenWerks> Anything that sets the correct mime.
[15:00] <flocculant> zequence: just so you know - while hexchat is maintained - it does obviously have bugs - 2 of which really bug me :)
[15:00] <zequence> OvenWerks: So, there's a file in the package that does that, right?
[15:00] <flocculant> though I do use it
[15:01] <zequence> Or, is it a script?
[15:02] <OvenWerks> MimeType=x-scheme-handler/irc;x-scheme-handler/ircs;
[15:03] <OvenWerks> From the desktop file.
[15:03] <zequence> OvenWerks: Ah, the desktop file. Right
[15:03] <OvenWerks> If all else fails it will start firefox :P
[15:04] <zequence> OvenWerks: Not currently. The menu item is not working right now
[15:04] <flocculant> and just from a user point of view - I'd not say that irssi would be a good choice - if I grabbed an image to look and found something like that I'd be joining in with the "linux - that'll be for geeks" brigade 
[15:05] <flocculant> not that I'm really part of studio - just a pov :)
[15:05] <OvenWerks> flocculant: Sorry, I was not being serious...
[15:05] <flocculant> OvenWerks: oh good :p
[15:05] <flocculant> krytarik would have been :)
[15:06] <krytarik> Also, Pidgin is installed by default, and  https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/3521  indicates that it works with it too.
[15:06] <zequence> krytarik: That didn't work either.
[15:06] <krytarik> :3
[15:06] <zequence> The menu item is not starting anything right now
[15:06] <flocculant> krytarik: yea but pidgin is currently only installed because xubuntu do
[15:06] <flocculant> I'd guess ... 
[15:07] <zequence> Yes, that's true
[15:07] <flocculant> \o/ 
[15:07] <flocculant> I got that right then ;)
[15:07] <zequence> I would like to create a ubuntustudio-desktop-common package at some point, especially if we are going desktop agnostic. We could add stuff there that we want on any DE
[15:08] <krytarik> flocculant, zequence: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.xenial/view/head:/desktop#L88
[15:13] <zequence> konverstation works too. I'm guessing chatzilla as well
[15:14] <zequence> But, there's no package for chatzilla, from what I can tell
[15:15] <zequence> Not since 12.04, or so
[15:17] <zequence> I would be happy to depend on hexchat | xchat | konversation, in that order
[15:18] <flocculant> zequence: you really should think about ditching xchat tbh 
[15:19] <zequence> flocculant: We don't have it. 
[15:20] <zequence> The dependency will install hexchat, if neither of hexchat, xchat or konversation were already installed
[15:20] <krytarik> flocculant: Hmm, and here I thought you just indicated it the other way around. :P
[15:20] <krytarik> Other than that, yes I agree with flocculant.
[15:21] <flocculant> zequence: sorry - thought the implication was you did 
[15:22] <OvenWerks> pidgin does not do irc very nicely.
[15:22] <OvenWerks> it is a general do everything app
[15:22] <zequence> The dependency will install hexchat, if someone doesn't already have one of the three mentioned irc clients
[15:23] <zequence> I'm adding the dependency now. If someone has a better idea, you are welcome to present it :)
[15:23] <flocculant> OvenWerks: no it doeasn't but it does it well enough for drive by usage
[15:23] <OvenWerks> flocculant: right.
[15:24] <flocculant> OvenWerks: xubuntu has a webchat option on their tracker which we often point people to rather than anything else
[15:24] <flocculant> I guess it depends on how much studio points people at irc 
[15:24] <OvenWerks> That would be another option is to direct at a web based irc for the menu.
[15:25] <flocculant> I'd say that most people who even know what irc is - have their faves
[15:25] <OvenWerks> flocculant: with an xdg-open irc://url
[15:25] <flocculant> OvenWerks: no - it's mostly via mail stuff
[15:25] <flocculant> mmm
[15:26] <flocculant> well we point to webchat in the slideshow
[15:26] <flocculant> but not in a menu anywhere now
[15:26] <zequence> Bug 1549955
[15:27] <zequence> We have a python script with a warning message for the user that they are about to appear on the IRC channel, but I forget why it is no longer used
[15:27] <zequence> Or, if it was ever.
[15:27] <zequence> Anyway, starting with this
[15:30] <OvenWerks> zequence: We used the script for a bit and it made something else not work... though I don't remember what... maybe it kept our menu from working with other DEs
[15:32] <krytarik> This one is in the installer slideshow currently: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio&nick=studio-user...&prompt=1 - prepending it with "xdg-open" would open it in the preferred web browser.
[15:32] <zequence> OvenWerks: Really. Well, I should just check the commits then.
[15:33] <OvenWerks> Quassel-qt4
[15:33] <zequence> Ok, so the question is - do we keep an IRC client, or do we use the browser only?
[15:34] <krytarik> (Though HTTPS would be preferrable, of course.)
[15:34] <OvenWerks> quassel-qt4 has less new depends than konversation
[15:35] <OvenWerks> zequence: That is a hard question for me. I use irc all the time and would not want to use a web interface
[15:36] <OvenWerks> A lot of audio sw support is IRC based and so a web client is not a great introduction to that
[15:36] <zequence> OvenWerks: Well, it's just for user help. All though, if would be nice if the user had some default settings with a number of nice channels already set up
[15:36] <zequence> Currently, they only get #ubuntustudio anyway
[15:37] <zequence> You know what, I will go with krytarik's option right now. It's the simples choice. If we want an irc client, I would like to see that in a -desktop-common package instead
[15:37] <OvenWerks> zequence: the only reason they get that is the desktop file, if you open *chat via Internet you get #ubuntu
[15:40] <zequence> this does not fill in the username automatically: xdg-open http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio&nick=studio-user...&prompt=1
[15:41] <zequence> So, this is enough: xdg-open http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio
[15:41] <zequence> The user needs to fill in a username manually. No big deal
[15:41] <OvenWerks> Quassel is not bad... defaults to #kubuntu :) But that may be changeable
[15:42] <OvenWerks> Can you change nick=studio-user to $USER?
[15:44] <zequence> No, doesn't seem to work
[15:46] <zequence> Think the & symbol doesn't work. Let's see
[15:46] <zequence> Need to escape it
[15:46] <zequence> Then it works
[15:49] <krytarik> zequence: Or just put it in quotation marks - tried it here as well now.
[15:54] <zequence> krytarik: Right
[15:54] <zequence> Well, I tested the package. It's working, so pushing that.
[15:58] <zequence> Forgot to do debcommits. messy, but the changelog will be somewhat accurate.
[15:58] <zequence> Sorry about that
[16:13] <zequence> Hmm, unity-greeter is pulled in because of lightdm
[16:13] <zequence> That in turn dependency by dependency (or recommend by recommend) pulls in unity-control-center
[16:14] <zequence> But, Xubuntu has that too
[16:16] <zequence> So, which indicator are we supposed to have, anyway
[16:17] <krytarik> zequence: Xubuntu doesn't, actually.
[16:21] <zequence> krytarik: According to the germinate output, it does
[16:21] <zequence> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.xenial/all
[16:25] <zequence> I'm getting the Xubuntu ISO to see how things look there, and then start diffing our sources
[16:26] <krytarik> I'm usually pulling the manifests first. :)
[16:31] <zequence> Right, so it doesn't end up on the ISO. But, why?
[16:32] <krytarik> I'll have a look later.
[16:32] <zequence> It's in a blacklist file in the seeds
[16:32] <zequence> So, we need to add that too
[16:34] <zequence> But, we're blacklisting that too
[16:34] <zequence> Yet, we have it
[16:38] <zequence> Wonder if it's only on the live image
[16:42] <zequence> I really don't know what the supported file is for, tbh.
[16:42] <zequence> Ours is empty, but not Xubuntu's
[16:42] <zequence> Besides, our ISO has grown a lot. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff on it that isn't supposed to be there
[16:44] <zequence> So, reading up on that here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement#Supported
[17:07] <zequence> I asked about it on #ubuntu-devel. cjwatson gave me some hints
[17:07] <zequence> ..why we get unity stuff, that is
[17:08] <OvenWerks> if we wanted quassel-qt4 with #ubuntustudio as default we could create a package called ubuntustudio-irc that was a copy of quassel-data with /usr/share/kde4/apps/quassel/networks.ini replaced. Not sure if that is worth it. I expect that quassel will be maintained though.
[17:08] <OvenWerks> Quassel does not, however, seem to be startable with the server/channel on the commandline.
[17:12] <zequence> I'm guessing our unity problems derive from simple dependency problems. Things need to be seeded in correct order
[17:13] <zequence> So, hopefully, it's just a matter of rearranging seeds in STRUCTURE
[17:15] <zequence> lightdm pulls in unity-greeter if lightdm-greeter is not already installed
[17:16] <zequence> I'm guessing that is where the problem is
[17:17] <zequence> Think if I just move desktop-core below desktop in STRUCTURE, the problem should go away
[17:17] <zequence> Let's see
[17:18] <zequence> That's all I'm doing today, anyway :)
[17:21] <OvenWerks> zequence: :) lots done anway.
[17:26] <zequence> OvenWerks: Not bad for a days work, nope
[17:40] <sakrecoer> i had a go at the translation stuff in -default-settings, following a set of instructive steps krytarik gave me. should be ready to push later this evening.
[17:46] <zequence> sakrecoer: Alright
[19:53] <zequence> Don't think my latest change to seeds worked. We still have unity packages. Might be cause desktop-core was not inherited into desktop, but not sure.
[19:53] <zequence> Trying that, anyway. Xubuntu has that, and I think I removed it for no good reason
[20:29] <zequence> sakrecoer: All done with -default-settings
[20:29] <zequence> ?
[20:29] <sakrecoer> yes!
[20:29] <sakrecoer> :) was about to ping you!
[20:29] <zequence> ok, I'll upload it
[20:29] <sakrecoer> sweet! thank you very much!
[20:30] <zequence> I just uploaded a new meta, so might just as well
[20:30] <zequence> Going to do a rebuild of the ISO and see if we get rid of our unity stuff